What is "The Lord of the Rings" and Tolkien all about?

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Gildoriel

Guardian of the Citadel
Since quite some time I've been reading a lot of posts claiming that this or that story/area/game element isn't "Lotr" or "Tolkien". While I agree that for some things they feel less like what I'd expect from Lotro, I was always able to follow the Devs' reasoning about them.

But this entire discussion raised a question in my mind which I'd like to discuss with you people about: What do you think is Lord of the Rings all about? What is a typical Tolkien-ish element? What is the "core" of our beloved story?
 

Greenpath

the sky is falling!
it's about everything he has written without staying confined in one spot forever and ever
 

Stormcrow

Well-known member
Fall and restoration, loss and redemption, mortality and immortality, strength in small things, and weakness in great things are some of the elements that are of note to me.

Tolkien, being a Catholic, incorporated themes of Christian theology into his fiction. Makes his works all the greater for it to me.
 

istvana

This *is* the other place.
Middle Earth - the societies and peoples thereof. Those described by Tolkien and those NOT described but which interact with those described.
 

benu

Well-known member
For me, Tolkien's stories are about the inevitability of loss and change. The decline of one thing to make room for growth and something greater. Look at the elves. The destruction of the ring led to their ultimate doom in Middle Earth and they were forced to sail west; the Hobbits who returned to a destroyed, industrialized shire; the kingdoms of men, Arnor had fallen and Gondor lost much of its power by the end of the third age; the dwarves who had lost their great kingdoms of old. Even Arda itself needs to be destroyed and rebuilt to get rid of the corruption of Morgoth (Morgoth's Ring). And yet, in the end, everyone ends up where they should be, where they are needed and where they can ultimately be happy. The world is not the same in the end as it was in the beginning, much has been destroyed and won't return, and yet, it has become a better place.

I might not be the person you're asking, because the story of the Kintai, to me, was one of the most "tolkienian" in recent content. It touches on all these aspects and gives us a slightly sad but satisfying (imo) resolution.
Another recent example, that I already wrote about elsewhere was the story of the toymaker in the Hatokali Fells. It's a sad but touching little quest chain that leads to exactly this sense of "eucatastrophe" that Tolkien described.
 

benu

Well-known member
Fall and restoration, loss and redemption, mortality and immortality, strength in small things, and weakness in great things are some of the elements that are of note to me.

Tolkien, being a Catholic, incorporated themes of Christian theology into his fiction. Makes his works all the greater for it to me.
Exactly this, I just couldn't put it in so few words
 

Formenya

Hero of Legend IRL
The uncomfortable part is that many people say they want to discuss what Tolkien is “really about,” but the real test is whether they can handle an X-ray of the myth without instantly defending it through emotion.

Because when you strip away the poetry, the music, the nobility, the Elven beauty, the ancient names, and the sacred atmosphere, Tolkien’s world is not a world of pure freedom.

It is a world of burden, obedience, hierarchy, fate, providence, bloodline, divine architecture, inherited duty, and submission to a larger order.

That is the part people often do not want to hear.

The Valar exist above the peoples of Middle-earth.
Ilúvatar exists above the Valar.
The Music already frames creation before most beings ever choose anything.
Morgoth’s rebellion is somehow folded back into a greater design.
The Istari are sent under restrictions.
Gandalf does not simply act as a free agent; he is sent, limited, tested, returned.
Aragorn’s path is tied to bloodline and destiny.
Frodo carries a burden he never truly asked for.
The Elves are bound to fading and departure.
Men receive mortality as both gift and doom.
Even evil becomes part of a larger providential pattern.

So how free is anyone, really?

That is the paradox inside Tolkien.

The story speaks of choice, mercy, courage, temptation, and moral responsibility — and those things matter inside the story — but the entire myth is also enclosed inside a cosmic structure where powers above the individual shape the board long before the individual moves.

That does not make Tolkien shallow. It makes him deeper and more uncomfortable.

His world is beautiful, but it is a beautiful cage.

Not ugly.
Not worthless.
Not meaningless.

Beautiful.

But still a cage.

A cage of divine order, fate, duty, sacrifice, loss, obedience, and limits.

That is why Tolkien feels so different from modern fantasy. Modern fantasy often says: become yourself, claim power, break the system, define your own identity.

Tolkien says something harsher:

reject power, accept burden, endure loss, obey a higher moral order, and do what must be done even when it breaks you.

That is powerful storytelling. But it is not freedom in the modern sense.

And this is where the real discussion begins.

Can people admit that Tolkien’s beauty is tied to submission?

Can they admit that its hope is not self-liberation, but endurance under burden?

Can they admit that its morality is not built around personal autonomy, but around alignment with a higher order?

Can they admit that its mythology contains enormous paradoxes: divine beings who intervene selectively, evil that is permitted, suffering that becomes meaningful only because the author’s universe frames it that way?


That is the real X-ray.

The core of Tolkien is not simply “good defeats evil.”

The core is:

Power corrupts.
Mercy matters.
Beauty fades.
Evil wounds the world.
The small can carry cosmic weight.
Victory costs more than glory admits.
And freedom is always constrained by duty, mortality, providence, and the order above you.


Frodo does not “win” in the normal heroic sense. He is wounded beyond repair and leaves the world he helped save.
Aragorn does not simply become king because he wants power; he accepts a burden tied to lineage, history, and service.
The Elves are not triumphant immortals; they are fading, departing, and watching their age end.
Gollum is not just a villain; he is pity, corruption, addiction, and providence all tangled together.
The Ring is not just an evil object; it is domination, possession, control, and the temptation to force the world into your own design.


So yes, Tolkien is hope.

But it is not modern comfort hope.

It is hope inside a cage of fate.

It is hope where the hero may be saved spiritually but ruined personally.

It is hope where the world continues, but the bearer of the burden cannot remain in it.

That is what makes it beautiful.

And that is also what makes it severe.



The real test of this question is whether people can analyze Tolkien without protecting it through emotion.

If we strip away the poetry, nostalgia, Elven beauty, ancient names, and childhood attachment, Tolkien’s myth is not mainly about freedom; it is about burden, hierarchy, providence, sacrifice, obedience, and loss.

How free is anyone in a world where Ilúvatar’s Music frames creation, the Valar stand above the world, Gandalf is sent and returned by higher powers, Aragorn’s role is tied to bloodline, and Frodo is spiritually victorious but personally destroyed?

That does not make Tolkien weak — it makes him severe — but it does mean the “core” is far darker than simple hope or friendship. Tolkien’s beauty is inseparable from submission: reject power, accept duty, endure suffering, and serve a moral order larger than yourself.

The uncomfortable question is whether that is truly freedom, or whether it is a gorgeous cage where meaning comes from accepting limits rather than breaking them. A typical Tolkien element is not just elves, dwarves, forests, ruins, or noble speeches; it is beauty fading under the weight of duty. The core is this: victory matters, but it does not erase suffering, and the one who saves the world may not be saved by the world he saved.
 

Gildoriel

Guardian of the Citadel
For me it is mainly - among other things - a parable of how power can corrupt everyone. Plus how to distinguish forces of life from forces of death. What is especially touching and thought provoking for me: Many things that Gandalf says. And how he and Galadriel each react when they are offered the One Ring.
 

Radhruin

Well-known member
LOTR isn't 'about' anything, in the sense of any specific strong message: "not 'about' anything but itself", according to the man himself (letter #142). What it does have is strong themes:
  • "The real theme for me is ... Death and Immortality: the mystery of the love of the world in a race 'doomed' to leave and seemingly lose it; the anguish in the hearts of a race 'doomed' not to leave it, until its evil-aroused story is complete." (Tolkien, letter #186)

  • Power and the will to dominate others, as symbolised by the RIng

  • The power of the small and humble; 'Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere' (as Elrond says in FOTR)

  • Said to be "a fundamentally religious and Catholic work" (Tolkien, letter #142), implicitly at least
Make of that what you will. And on the other hand there's how it's avowedly not allegorical (letter #142, again).
 
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Radhruin

Well-known member
Since quite some time I've been reading a lot of posts claiming that this or that story/area/game element isn't "Lotr" or "Tolkien". While I agree that for some things they feel less like what I'd expect from Lotro, I was always able to follow the Devs' reasoning about them.

But this entire discussion raised a question in my mind which I'd like to discuss with you people about: What do you think is Lord of the Rings all about? What is a typical Tolkien-ish element? What is the "core" of our beloved story?
Having thought about this a bit more, it's perhaps not so much to do with what LOTR is about as how it's presented, its context, style and character. Tolkien's work was meant to have the 'air' of tales of old from North-Western Europe (and not the south, still less the east, we're told) so there is a cultural context and sense of 'place' to it, as written. I'm not averse to going further afield for the sake of story-telling but that's not its natural focus, and some may pick up on that.

It's also written as constructed myth and legend and so that's the style of old tale it's meant to emulate, and it both takes a lot of inspiration from and clearly references genuinely old tales (Norse, Germanic, Celtic and Finnish). So in itself it's not written like your typical modern popular fantasy and doesn't have all the usual tropes and fantasy 'furniture' people tend to look for, while the game does go a long way down that road. And so you get differing views about how far that should be, how far is too far and so on.

There's also how Tolkien uses language and the care that's needed to seem 'Tolkienesque' when adapting that, but the writers here have put a lot of effort into it and so by and large as far as LOTRO goes it's all fine and dandy. Not every adaptation does so well, there.
 

Gildoriel

Guardian of the Citadel
LOTR isn't 'about' anything, in the sense of any specific strong message: "not 'about' anything but itself", according to the man himself (letter #142). What it does have is strong themes:
  • "The real theme for me is ... Death and Immortality: the mystery of the love of the world in a race 'doomed' to leave and seemingly lose it; the anguish in the hearts of a race 'doomed' not to leave it, until its evil-aroused story is complete." (Tolkien, letter #186)

  • Power and the will to dominate others, as symbolised by the RIng

  • The power of the small and humble; 'Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere' (as Elrond says in FOTR)

  • Said to be "a fundamentally religious and Catholic work" (Tolkien, letter #142), implicitly at least
Make of that what you will. And on the other hand there's how it's avowedly not allegorical (letter #142, again).
That's already 4 topics of what it's about ;)
 

Sagla

Well-known member
Since quite some time I've been reading a lot of posts claiming that this or that story/area/game element isn't "Lotr" or "Tolkien". While I agree that for some things they feel less like what I'd expect from Lotro, I was always able to follow the Devs' reasoning about them.

But this entire discussion raised a question in my mind which I'd like to discuss with you people about: What do you think is Lord of the Rings all about? What is a typical Tolkien-ish element? What is the "core" of our beloved story?

What it is "all about"? A mostly nonsensical question, that generally can't be given a good answer.
There is the obvious, and uninteresting answer - it is about some hobbits going on a journey to drop a ring into a volcano.
There are also all kinds of different answers - it is a story about war; it is a catholic story; a story about magic going away; a story about heroism; etc. etc. etc. All of those answers have a bit of truth in them, but none is what the book "is about".
 

Polymachos

Believes he is a Wiki
For me, the most remarkable element is the emphasis on community. No one of the characters can make their way alone; they are always in a group, even after the Fellowship broke up. Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli in pursuit of the Uruk-Hai, Meriadoc and Pippin meeting Fangorn, Samwise and Frodo which take Gollum in (who is so overwhelmed by this experience that he nearly breaks), then later Mithrandir and Peregrin in Minas Tirith, Meriadoc and Eowyn on the Pelennor Fields.

Almost never can you see a character achieve anything completely on his own, except at times Gandalf; but then it is only hinted at. You never see him fight the Nazgul on Weathertop, there is only talking about a weird lighting that happened one night on the summit. The battle with the Balrog likewise is not really described other than that it took days. And it cost him dearly; he needed the help of the elves to regain a physical appearance.


Greetings, Polymachos
 

Ejiln

Member
The uncomfortable part is that many people say they want to discuss what Tolkien is “really about,” but the real test is whether they can handle an X-ray of the myth without instantly defending it through emotion.

Because when you strip away the poetry, the music, the nobility, the Elven beauty, the ancient names, and the sacred atmosphere, Tolkien’s world is not a world of pure freedom.

It is a world of burden, obedience, hierarchy, fate, providence, bloodline, divine architecture, inherited duty, and submission to a larger order.

That is the part people often do not want to hear.

The Valar exist above the peoples of Middle-earth.
Ilúvatar exists above the Valar.
The Music already frames creation before most beings ever choose anything.
Morgoth’s rebellion is somehow folded back into a greater design.
The Istari are sent under restrictions.
Gandalf does not simply act as a free agent; he is sent, limited, tested, returned.
Aragorn’s path is tied to bloodline and destiny.
Frodo carries a burden he never truly asked for.
The Elves are bound to fading and departure.
Men receive mortality as both gift and doom.
Even evil becomes part of a larger providential pattern.

So how free is anyone, really?

That is the paradox inside Tolkien.

The story speaks of choice, mercy, courage, temptation, and moral responsibility — and those things matter inside the story — but the entire myth is also enclosed inside a cosmic structure where powers above the individual shape the board long before the individual moves.

That does not make Tolkien shallow. It makes him deeper and more uncomfortable.

His world is beautiful, but it is a beautiful cage.

Not ugly.
Not worthless.
Not meaningless.

Beautiful.

But still a cage.

A cage of divine order, fate, duty, sacrifice, loss, obedience, and limits.

That is why Tolkien feels so different from modern fantasy. Modern fantasy often says: become yourself, claim power, break the system, define your own identity.

Tolkien says something harsher:

reject power, accept burden, endure loss, obey a higher moral order, and do what must be done even when it breaks you.

That is powerful storytelling. But it is not freedom in the modern sense.

And this is where the real discussion begins.

Can people admit that Tolkien’s beauty is tied to submission?

Can they admit that its hope is not self-liberation, but endurance under burden?

Can they admit that its morality is not built around personal autonomy, but around alignment with a higher order?

Can they admit that its mythology contains enormous paradoxes: divine beings who intervene selectively, evil that is permitted, suffering that becomes meaningful only because the author’s universe frames it that way?


That is the real X-ray.

The core of Tolkien is not simply “good defeats evil.”

The core is:

Power corrupts.
Mercy matters.

Beauty fades.
Evil wounds the world.
The small can carry cosmic weight.
Victory costs more than glory admits.
And freedom is always constrained by duty, mortality, providence, and the order above you.

Frodo does not “win” in the normal heroic sense. He is wounded beyond repair and leaves the world he helped save.
Aragorn does not simply become king because he wants power; he accepts a burden tied to lineage, history, and service.
The Elves are not triumphant immortals; they are fading, departing, and watching their age end.
Gollum is not just a villain; he is pity, corruption, addiction, and providence all tangled together.
The Ring is not just an evil object; it is domination, possession, control, and the temptation to force the world into your own design.


So yes, Tolkien is hope.

But it is not modern comfort hope.

It is hope inside a cage of fate.

It is hope where the hero may be saved spiritually but ruined personally.

It is hope where the world continues, but the bearer of the burden cannot remain in it.

That is what makes it beautiful.

And that is also what makes it severe.



The real test of this question is whether people can analyze Tolkien without protecting it through emotion.

If we strip away the poetry, nostalgia, Elven beauty, ancient names, and childhood attachment, Tolkien’s myth is not mainly about freedom; it is about burden, hierarchy, providence, sacrifice, obedience, and loss.

How free is anyone in a world where Ilúvatar’s Music frames creation, the Valar stand above the world, Gandalf is sent and returned by higher powers, Aragorn’s role is tied to bloodline, and Frodo is spiritually victorious but personally destroyed?

That does not make Tolkien weak — it makes him severe — but it does mean the “core” is far darker than simple hope or friendship. Tolkien’s beauty is inseparable from submission: reject power, accept duty, endure suffering, and serve a moral order larger than yourself.

The uncomfortable question is whether that is truly freedom, or whether it is a gorgeous cage where meaning comes from accepting limits rather than breaking them. A typical Tolkien element is not just elves, dwarves, forests, ruins, or noble speeches; it is beauty fading under the weight of duty. The core is this: victory matters, but it does not erase suffering, and the one who saves the world may not be saved by the world he saved.

Did you know that it was Tolkien that lead CS Lewis to The Lord?

How ironic, that CS Lewis ended up launching off like a rocket to create content that specifically pointed to Christ in his Narnia series of books, while Tolkien did not go quite that far in his Lotr books. I often think of CS Lewis, and revere him for having put it all out on the line, despite the anger and hate by some due to his books.


CS Lewis:

"You never know how much you really believe anything until its truth or falsehood becomes a matter of life and death to you."
 

Ena

Keeper of the Forgotten Treasury
It resists simplification. It’s woven from many threads, such as loss, hope, decline, friendship, sacrifice, beauty, corruption, mercy, pride, the longing for things that cannot be regained... To reduce it to one theme is to lose the depth.

Yet if I must choose, the heart of the story (for me) lies in two intertwined ideas: the mortality, and the moral struggle between good and evil as something defined by choice. Characters are not born good or bad, they become who they are through the choices they make. In that sense, the story is ultimately about how free will shapes destiny, how even the smallest choices can carry immense moral weight. Mortality gives those choices urgency, and free will gives them meaning. Goodness is not a birthright and evil is not a destiny. They are paths, and every step is a choice that matters.

Having thought about this a bit more, it's perhaps not so much to do with what LOTR is about as how it's presented, its context, style and character. Tolkien's work was meant to have the 'air' of tales of old from North-Western Europe (and not the south, still less the east, we're told) so there is a cultural context and sense of 'place' to it, as written. I'm not averse to going further afield for the sake of story-telling but that's not its natural focus, and some may pick up on that.

It's also written as constructed myth and legend and so that's the style of old tale it's meant to emulate, and it both takes a lot of inspiration from and clearly references genuinely old tales (Norse, Germanic, Celtic and Finnish). So in itself it's not written like your typical modern popular fantasy and doesn't have all the usual tropes and fantasy 'furniture' people tend to look for, while the game does go a long way down that road. And so you get differing views about how far that should be, how far is too far and so on.

There's also how Tolkien uses language and the care that's needed to seem 'Tolkienesque' when adapting that, but the writers here have put a lot of effort into it and so by and large as far as LOTRO goes it's all fine and dandy. Not every adaptation does so well, there.
Myth as truth :)
 

Ejiln

Member
It resists simplification. It’s woven from many threads, such as loss, hope, decline, friendship, sacrifice, beauty, corruption, mercy, pride, the longing for things that cannot be regained... To reduce it to one theme is to lose the depth.

Yet if I must choose, the heart of the story (for me) lies in two intertwined ideas: the mortality, and the moral struggle between good and evil as something defined by choice. Characters are not born good or bad, they become who they are through the choices they make. In that sense, the story is ultimately about how free will shapes destiny, how even the smallest choices can carry immense moral weight. Mortality gives those choices urgency, and free will gives them meaning. Goodness is not a birthright and evil is not a destiny. They are paths, and every step is a choice that matters.


Myth as truth :)

I think it is simple :)

I agree, a character in a story is not born good or bad, but it is the choices they made in their past that makes them who they are.

Yet, we are not born as good in real life. It does not take much to see the the potential selfishness that a child can portray... it takes good parenting, as of course a young child is not responsible for bad choices made. As the child grows, the parenting can steer the child in the right, or wrong direction. But... in the end, Devine intervention is what changes a person. What can move a growing child towards God? Again, good parenting. Yet, even atheists and alike, sometimes find God, why is it so random I don't know. There is a lot I don't know.

This is why, it's called being "born again". And when it happens, from my experience, you'll know it, and never forget it.
 

Radhruin

Well-known member
How ironic, that CS Lewis ended up launching off like a rocket to create content that specifically pointed to Christ in his Narnia series of books, while Tolkien did not go quite that far in his Lotr books. I often think of CS Lewis, and revere him for having put it all out on the line, despite the anger and hate by some due to his books.
Or rather that Tolkien was subtle and didn't want to engage in what he described as "purposed domination" of his readers via allegory, whereas C.S.Lewis was all for it and laid it on with a really heavy hand. Even as a kid I found that annoying, most particularly in The Last Battle; it shows a lack of respect for readers to ram the intended meaning home like that. So I'm with Tolkien on that one, let readers find their own meaning as they choose to, don't try to force it on them.
 

Xyrus

Well-known member
the moral struggle between good and evil as something defined by choice. Characters are not born good or bad, they become who they are through the choices they make.
Hmmm...some become corrupted by the Rings and don't have a choice because they don't know who is behind them. Smeagol wasn't evil until he found the Ring, the dwarf kings who were given rings of power were not evil afaik; they did not become servants of Sauron but their personalities changed for the worse. An ingame example is Captain Lachir in Udun.
 
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