Upcoming Hunter Changes

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Exogenesis

Optimist
Meant to respond to this the other day but lost track of it for a while there, lot of clutter in this thread.

Blue;

  • As a cooldown skill, Rapid Fire is going to need a much longer duration and/or further changed made to it to actually make it feel impactful to use.

I'm definitely leaning towards shorter CD over longer duration. Rapid Fire on a 45s CD would keep it synced up with typical DPS CDs whilst also helping the pacing of blue feel different from red (45s burst cycle versus 90s).

In terms of making it "cool" I'm still struggling. Perhaps bow attacks apply a stack of light for 4s, this tiers up to ~10 at which point you can no longer refresh it. When the stacks expire they explode for X light damage in AoE, scaling with the stack count. This would of course replace light oils. :D



Red;

  • Also hoping that Burn Hot gets the Natures Fury treatment and we see a cooler cooldown skill built from it, pure +% damage buffs are no longer *exciting* when we have skills like Natures Fury, please consider doing something with Burn Hot (and subsequently Rapid Fire). Some random ideas below;
    • ...rolling fire damage / fire oil into Burn Hot directly, perhaps we could see this and then have +Fire% traceries actually work or impact these skills during Burn Hot.

Gosh that one sounds amazing. They should do that one.
 

Louvine

Well-known member
Suggestion: Maybe there could be three threads? One for each line? Is it too late to separate them out?

Changes to each individual line are not done is a vacuum. Changes to blue line will impact Red & Yellow, and vice versa, it is important to look at the changes as a whole within the class, we do, afterall, have 98 trait points and cross-traiting is a very important factor.

I think it would simply be better if any continued discussion about FtP was moved, elsewhere.
 
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onor

Well-known member
I'm concerned about the nerf to cry of the hunter. Will the legendary tracery required to unnerf it be gated behind some high tier raid or instance many of us will never play? Did I read it right that dazing blow is going to be yellow only?
 

Exogenesis

Optimist
I'm concerned about the nerf to cry of the hunter. Will the legendary tracery required to unnerf it be gated behind some high tier raid or instance many of us will never play? Did I read it right that dazing blow is going to be yellow only?

Traceries are more gated by the reward track than they are raids. And yes, Dazing is now yellow exclusive.
 

Louvine

Well-known member
I'm concerned about the nerf to cry of the hunter. Will the legendary tracery required to unnerf it be gated behind some high tier raid or instance many of us will never play? Did I read it right that dazing blow is going to be yellow only?

Traceries are not gated behind anything...
Teal & Gold tracery tokens come from the Reward Track & Festivals. Teal tracery tokens also come from Delvings...
 

onor

Well-known member
Traceries are more gated by the reward track than they are raids. And yes, Dazing is now yellow exclusive.
So much for blue becoming more melee centric...Also, there is nothing to stop them from making a special tracery/token that is gated behind high tier content only reachable by the kool kids. They could also change their minds and make it a set bonus only accessible through high tier content.
 

Exogenesis

Optimist
So much for blue becoming more melee centric...

Yeah, the revamp is really disappointing on that front. There's less melee involvement than live bHunter has.

Also, there is nothing to stop them from making a special tracery/token that is gated behind high tier content only reachable by the kool kids. They could also change their minds and make it a set bonus only accessible through high tier content.

Nothing to stop them but that would be a first in regards to tracery acquisition. I dunno that we should be worrying over random things they could technically do but don't seem to have any intention of doing. 😅
 

Ena

Keeper of the Forgotten Treasury
We can do this conversation.
I payed 2995 LP for the Journeyman Riding trait which gives all of my mounts a 10-16% speed boost.
What do you spend your LP on?

I spent on housing mostly.

So that wasn't my question but can perhaps try to gather something from it. It sounds like you are having lack of time and speeding over landscape on foot and otherwise, but doing what exactly? Even for questing, we have to stop many times, either to kill or to gather something. One would need to be on the constant move for an extended period of time for 5% to matter so greatly, and I don't know anything in the game that would require such thing.

Or perhaps you just like roaming around landscape? Which is ok with me, people do that sometimes, just enjoying landscape. But that means they have time for such thing so again I don't see where would need for additional 5% come in that case. You see I have to guess possible scenarios, and so do developers, because no one is giving concrete examples on how and why would matter.

I would say test on BR what you usually doing and then see if there is any drastic impact. I am completely fine if they give to people additional 5% as a passive, so long that doesn't cost or change anything for others.
 

onor

Well-known member
The range is more of a gripe, but Im glad its not -10m like the useless, weak and boring yellow RK.
 

Tepee

Well-known member
I hope noone objects to some little fact check.
5m in max range, as per what I quoted. A 5m step in this game is almost nothing.
5m is exactly 5 m, not 0 m or ε m, therefore it is not nothing or "almost nothing", and there would be no way to get back the lost range.
The range is more of a gripe, but Im glad its not -10m like the useless, weak and boring yellow RK.
Yellow RK spec does not say -10m range, it just happens that Lightning skills have 20m Fire skills have 30m base range in every spec.
Would a coffee up the 24% or be ignored?
If your High Elf (+10% run speed) Hunter (+25% FtP) drinks a coffee (+10%), then:
10+10+25=25% ooc run speed, because only the highest apply.
And this keeps the game balance in check, I hope these bonuses will never stack.

2/3 out of these I already mentioned, and 3/3 is on the Wiki.
Please do not clutter this forum more with incomprehension, I'm happy to answer anyone in private if there is some misunderstanding.
I hope this really was the last time I had to clarify things here, message me instead if you want to argue.
 
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Tepee

Well-known member
I think to prevent further incomprehension why 5% ooc run speed and 5m range matters, the best thing I can do is to give some constructive feedback, in what circumstances would these nerfs work.

More melee synergy for the -5m range

1. First of all, I don't want to see any malus in the list of bonuses that you get when you specialize in a trait line.
This means 25m base range, +15m range in Red, and +5m range in Yellow. This is for psychological reasons and for new player experience.

2. Shorter range for emphasizing melee only works if there is bigger pay-off for doing melee.
Give us more melee synergies in Blue line - everyone says it, not just we "crybabies".

3. Start this by not increasing the cooldown of Scourging Blow from 5 to 15 sec, or giving us another spamable 2-3 sec cd melee skill - with higher damage than Quick Shot, so that it is worth it to stay in melee.

4. Buff Low Cut, or give us a decent melee AoE skill.

Options to buff Fleetness

First of all, giving a Charge/Sprint skill is a great way to make up for 5% loss on speed.
However, +35% speed for 10 seconds is not enough.

This is very okay for baseline, especially because it does stack with Find the Path. (ooc and ic run speed stacks)

However, I would like a trait or tracery, that increases it's speed potency or duration.
I prefer that it would increase it's duration, especially because it would increase our dps capability too because of it's Focus over time effect.

What do you think of these @OnnMacMahal @Louvine ?
 
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Hoppendi

Well-known member
So that wasn't my question but can perhaps try to gather something from it. It sounds like you are having lack of time and speeding over landscape on foot and otherwise, but doing what exactly? Even for questing, we have to stop many times, either to kill or to gather something.
It can also be about having more fun while farming countless grind systems, crafting mats, rep items, task items, ...
Imagine: 20 toons * 10 daily tasks * 10 task items = 2000 task item trophies consumed per day!

One would need to be on the constant move for an extended period of time for 5% to matter so greatly, and I don't know anything in the game that would require such thing.
Actually not much is required in Lotro, most of the game is easy and grind. It's just about having the most fun possible and for everyone that prioritizes speed for fun... that's the most important part then. And the extra range is in the very same sense: it's faster to enter battles gathering many enemies from a battlefield to finish them off with AoE with the right timing.

Also psychologically knowing you have to be slower based on decisions that are more like a personal design philosophy of the current dev and not needed (well surely not on justifiable for landscape as i see it), just will lower the fun, honestly. I don't disagree with the design philosophy behind, but i highly dislike the lack of choice for playstyle specializations. And one last time: playstyle is not the role blue/r/y, it's the way you move over the map, how often you switch targets and your camera work + skill rotation. Raids play completely different than landscape or pvmp.
But it highly depends on the role, i agree that there is not much room to wiggle but with the current blue hunter being more of an exception especially on landscape where playstyles really can differ a lot. For a very simple comparison: one person goes through a fortress one enemy(-group) at a time while the other gathers everyone in sight while kiting + AoE.



Overall i dislike the trait tree system because the idea is forcing those specific roles. I mean you can switch between red and blue like it's nothing and suddenly your character has 15m less aim on a skill they could just perform on that far distance? Or they knew exactly on how do perform a heart-seeker and no matter how much they try, they can't do it anymore. It's just not coherent in an immersive sense.
I would see it differently if you have to decide on lvl 25 for a path to permanently be blue/r/y... It would make sense from an immersive perspective.
But since characters can potentially perform all skills from their class i would like a trait tree system way more where everything is somewhat available. If they wouldn't want to give out access to everything maybe a similar system with choice over most traits from all trees would be better, possibly enabling way more core builds than the current 3 trees approach. A complete redesign for way more choice and options in that regard would have been welcome by me as long as the idea of custom core builds would have been possible for all content.


Or perhaps you just like roaming around landscape? Which is ok with me, people do that sometimes, just enjoying landscape. But that means they have time for such thing so again I don't see where would need for additional 5% come in that case. You see I have to guess possible scenarios, and so do developers, because no one is giving concrete examples on how and why would matter.
I gave multiple examples splattered through this thread (if they are not deleted). The obvious is just a wish for fast character movement because for some faster feels better. I personally would wish for a +50% to +100% base run speed for every class, also would easily pay 100$+ for something like this account wide. But historically there only is hunter-group and warden-solo with a special case for beornings which are way faster in some scenarios but slower in others. I settled on hunter and only went into the revamp with the focus on 5 things: blue-mobility, movement speed, range, precision stance and rain of arrows.
Mobility (effectiveness) gets slightly enhanced with some instant attacks but slowed on speed and range which are way more essential for me. So overall a nerf since i don't need more DPS for landscape. If i would only raid i would like the changes way more, but being landscape focused sucks in that case.

Other scenarios (where it really matters) are way more niche but you can platform in lotro or do speedruns (trying to complete some quest in the fastest time possible or something like all yule quests in the fastest time possible) - why? Because it's 0% challenge and only repetition. The only thing to make it fun is finding new challenges to it - at least the case for some people like myself.
Yes the warden is the optimal choice in most (non-combat) cases, but due to the combat-playstyle i settled on blue hunter which i now have 10 alts over lvl 120 and will focus on those more than anything else.


I would say test on BR what you usually doing and then see if there is any drastic impact.
The drastic impact will be more in the 5m range for landscape. But as i said somewhere else here: with quick shot getting mobile in red and +15m advantage over blue i assume red to be the better blue on landscape. Possibly even faster than current blue (only guessing; maybe just in some scenarios) but it would require a different movement pattern including stops and waits (no fun!). Red would only be faster due to range. The weaker the enemies are the more likely will a stop 'n go red be the optimal choice for fast farming landscape. So either a slower blue or an annoying red, both seem less fun to me and if i find time i will test them on BR surely.

I am completely fine if they give to people additional 5% as a passive, so long that doesn't cost or change anything for others.
Thanks, i would even pay traitpoints, equip slots or whatever for it. I would still wish for more speed options but that's clearly a dream.
 
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