Transfers from closed servers: 2024 Update?

[maartena]

Short history: In Summer/Fall of 2019 the servers received a database software upgrade from Microsoft SQL to PostGre SQL, and as a result transfers from "closed servers" was disabled on the servers that had already migrated to the new software. By October 2019 - Now pretty much exactly 5 years ago - this project was done, with the promise that they would be working on getting transfers from closed worlds restored.

For about 2 years, we got sporadic updates that this was being worked on, and at some point it was announced they were "close" to being able to enable it. Apparently however, some technical problems arose, and they were not able to do it...... but they still said they would be looking into this, just with "no ETA".

@Orion @Vastin @Severlin , we are now 5 years from when the transfers from closed worlds were disabled. Routinely I still see players coming back to the game wondering how they would be able to recover their old characters, and of course we have had to disappoint them. Some of them decided not to come back playing again and left again as they had some objects and titles and things on their old characters they can't get anymore and were upset they lost them.

So, with this post I am asking the SSG team to give us an update on this..... maybe a final one to put this to bed. Can we please get something a little more definitive than "we have nothing to say on this subject" or similar language? Can we for once get an update whether this is still being planned, still being worked on, or whether the final curtain has fallen and it will no longer be considered? There are still people hoping for their old characters, and I think after 5 years..... it is only fair to get a final update on this so we can once and for all.....either close the book on this, or whether we should hold on to some hope that this may still happen?

Please, something more than "we have no update on this at this time", maybe a small explanation as to what is holding this up, and what the technological challenge is? Just a little more than..... well..... "no information at this time"?

I know this is likely going to take a lot of valuable resources to complete, and there are more important projects..... but of course there always is. So please, give us a final Yes, No, or Maybe with some explanation. I think after 5 years of waiting, we deserve to at least know whether this book is closed, or still open with a chapter to write.

Thank you!

 

[StinkyGreene]

I am a terrible at DB administration guy of 45 years. But somehow I was always able to migrate. Never used MSSQL (or microsoft) but... MYSQL to PostgreSQL no issue that would take years.

 

[Pontin_Finnberry]

I don't have characters on closed servers, but this is something i wanted to ask the next time Severlin is doing a Q&A, its been a long time, and i'm wondering if this is a dead project and won't ever happen for reasons, or something might happen after other stuff like 64bit servers are finished.

 

[istvana]

But somehow I was always able to migrate.

We were able to transfer characters for years - for free. Then something happened to close this window - something they were doing created a major incompatibility.

The only ones affected were those that for a variety of reasons didn't take advantage of the free transfers when they were available. Mostly because they had left the game and were not, at that time, planning to return.

 

[-CasualGamer-]

It might be that their transfer tool is more spaghetti code. It shouldn't be that hard to write a new one, but they're short of coders and who's gonna test it? It would likely lead to a lot of tickets.

 

[Linet]

I want my world. :(

 

[Westwine]

If this is the case, why can we still copy our characters into Bullroarer?
Have I missed something important here?

 

[istvana]

If this is the case, why can we still copy our characters into Bullroarer?

Because that has nothing whatsoever to do with whether characters can be copied from an old server that no longer exists to a new server that becomes more and more different from how the old one was with every patch.

 

[Bango]

If this is the case, why can we still copy our characters into Bullroarer?
Have I missed something important here?

What Istvana meant to say was that because Bullroarer is rebuilt to match whatever build the devs are looking to have us test, then it will always be current.

 

[maartena]

I am a terrible at DB administration guy of 45 years. But somehow I was always able to migrate. Never used MSSQL (or microsoft) but... MYSQL to PostgreSQL no issue that would take years.

There is likely some other underlying issue we're not aware of. You would think that if the migration from MS SQL to PostGreSQL on the live servers went fine, that it also should not be too hard to do the closed servers......but obviously those servers closed 3 years earlier in 2016, and the databases were just placed in some sort of "closed server server". There is obviously some missing link here, something us server admins don't quite get and may be proprietary to the data in question.

I'm still hoping that @Orion and/or @Severlin can give us some more information and why this was held up for 5 years. Maybe there is just not enough closed server characters left to make it worth while....... even though I see this come up regularly.

I just want to know whether we can just close the book on this, or whether those who want their characters back can still hold on to their hope.

(I myself moved all my characters during the merger so I have nothing left there, but many people that returned to the game during the pandemic have been wanting an answer.....)

 

[Cordovan]

Fun fact: yesterday's brief Character Transfer downtime was related to work being done as part of a bigger project to allow for character transfers from legacy worlds. The project isn't dead! Just big enough and pitfall-prone enough that we're not in a position to even hint at when or if it'll happen.

 

[bannedfortalkinglore]

The problem of allowing transfers off old, closed, worlds isn't about migrating DB implementations. It's about migrating the old data's schema to new data schema. It's hard to justify the cost of updating old schema when all the intermediary steps have been lost to history. It's like saying: lets update all the old data to every intermediate update in between, and hope nothing goes wrong.

I'd imagine all the world downtime caused by migrating schema would also happen in that behind-the-scenes microcosm of dev necromancy.

 

[lordofthecats]

If it was me, I would save down the old player data to some kind of file, such as JSON. Then make a tool that can import the file to make a character on the new server. Of course it is easier said than done.

 

[maartena]

Fun fact: yesterday's brief Character Transfer downtime was related to work being done as part of a bigger project to allow for character transfers from legacy worlds. The project isn't dead! Just big enough and pitfall-prone enough that we're not in a position to even hint at when or if it'll happen.

Thank you for the update. After 5 years though, don't you think we deserve a little more of an explanation than basically "no ETA".

What are the pitfalls here?

 

[Ecrinhael]

Thank you for the update. After 5 years though, don't you think we deserve a little more of an explanation than basically "no ETA".

What are the pitfalls here?

*points to your signature*

Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" and "In The Near Future™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the words, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™", "Near", and "Future" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

You should add "No ETA" to the list as well.

 

[Sagla]

If this is the case, why can we still copy our characters into Bullroarer?
Have I missed something important here?

A couple of reasons.
First, since it is just a copy to Bullroarer it is no big deal if something goes wrong during the copy - the original character is still safe on its server.
Secondly, with so much fewer characters on Bullroarer compared to the live servers there is a much lower risk of any data collisions between characters.
Thirdly, it doesn't matter much if the copied character on Bullroarer ends up buggy and mangled beyond recognition - they will wipe the database clean later anyway.

TL;DR - less risk of problems happening when copying to Bullroarer, and if they do happen it is no big deal.

 

[gildhur]

Fun fact: yesterday's brief Character Transfer downtime was related to work being done as part of a bigger project to allow for character transfers from legacy worlds. The project isn't dead! Just big enough and pitfall-prone enough that we're not in a position to even hint at when or if it'll happen.

I had a hunch. Very exciting news!

 

[Legislative]

If it was me, I would save down the old player data to some kind of file, such as JSON. Then make a tool that can import the file to make a character on the new server. Of course it is easier said than done.

It's called EDI(Electronic Data Interchange), depending on the tool used, can work with basically anything (CSV, DSV, XML, JSON, XLS/X, inhouse, edifact, SQL queries, emails and other stuff from anywhere and to anywhere (ftp/sftp/oftp/file server/emails/APIs/AS2 and much more I can't think of as it's really early in the morning). The tech exists for that, but I don't think its purchase is warranted for a game developer and I have no idea how easily you can DIY your own solution. Then again, I would suspect that only a single interface is needed as it's just 1 old DB structure and 1 new DB?

 

[Harvain]

Thank you for the update. After 5 years though, don't you think we deserve a little more of an explanation than basically "no ETA".

What are the pitfalls here?

Put it out there they've discussed Closed Server Transfers more than just in 2019 but especially because they got "close" and it didn't happen they've kept comments to a bare minimum.

I'll just post a few things from what was discussed below such as back from October 2021:

• October 15th, 2021 in a +Cord of the Rings + Producer Raniana Stream:
  • Closed Server Transfers are still a ways off with no timetable.
• October 29th, 2021 +Cord of the Rings Stream:
  • SSG has been making progress for Closed Server Transfers and are considering how best to deal with such be it: everyone can Transfers, only X Servers can Transfer before more Servers are allowed, etc. More information on Closed Server Transfers will be coming in the future.

There were various other comments on the Old LOTRO Forums, we've had some info such as April 2024 where @Orion discussed this but due to this not being an area he works directly on he couldn't say much on the topic, and @Cordovan commented in April 2024 as well along the lines of, "Getting the closed servers updated and cooperating with the transfer system is a lot of work".

Say very little & over-deliver is better than saying a lot & under-delivering.

 

[Bango]

Thank you for the update. After 5 years though, don't you think we deserve a little more of an explanation than basically "no ETA".

What are the pitfalls here?

It's a polite way of saying it's not on our to-do list for at least the next 6 months.