Our latest Letter to the Players has arrived

istvana

This *is* the other place.
New 64 bit servers sounds great, there are so many limitations on the current 32 bit ones! I don’t really understand why so many feathers seem ruffled when this can only be objectively a good thing.

Perhaps because the new wonderful servers will be there only for new characters - at least that is all we know now and all we will know for a month. Other than that they "want" to allow transfers of a handful of abandoned characters from long dead servers.

I believe the "clarification" was entirely clear - no transfers from the existing servers to the new ones at least for a while. So to enjoy the new servers we need to start over. Not everyone likes doing that, giving up houses, currency, mithril coins, ancient script and the like. Not to mention expensive boosts to level 140 or 150 which many people got from the expansion or from the recent sale.

Either we will be able to transfer to the new servers later or we will not. If we never can - and there is no word on converting the old servers to 64-bit - this is a complete negative for all existing characters. Stuck on legacy servers with rapidly dying populations. If we can transfer later - this means that at best we have to wait an unspecified amount of time on laggy old servers, and then quite possibly lose our names which may have been taken by that time.

Seems like we birds should be ruffling those feathers pretty vigorously.
 

Thanatos

Well-known member
At least initially the transfers to these new 64 bit worlds will not be from our 32 bit worlds, and will instead focus on our closed legacy servers. We'll have more details about the specifics of our plans in January.
Hm, so all the Players on the live servers have nothing from the new 64 bit servers then?
 

Orion

Lead Designer
I want to clarify information on the new 64-bit servers we plan to open in early 2025.

When the 64-bit servers come online we will allow free and optional transfers off existing 32-bit worlds for all players. More information about the timing, name reservation, etc. will be handled in a Q&A sit down with Cordovan and Severlin in the early part of the new year. In the weeks following the opening of the 64-bit worlds, we will also open "dark world" transfers to the 64-bit servers to allow characters on those worlds to move over.
 

Orion

Lead Designer
Hello!
I will be grateful if you clarify plans for:
- renewal of the Kinship system, which initially was planned to be done this year
As outlined in the letter to the players, we are being more conservative with the information we provide to ensure more relevant and imminent details on development are shared. As major updates or changes draw closer we will share broader detail.
- progress on updating the game interface, which has been going on for a very long time
Game interface changes continue, albeit in a modest sense. The next update you can expect to see is the revision to the Deed Log planned for the first release of 2025.
 

kudurru

Master Procrastinator
Guess we need to patiently wait and see, as the info we're curently getting is a bit contradictory (like the server transfer order).

Atm, it looks like a giant shake-up. Let's just enjoy Yule for now.
 

Galeplay

New member
I want to clarify information on the new 64-bit servers we plan to open in early 2025.

When the 64-bit servers come online we will allow free and optional transfers off existing 32-bit worlds for all players. More information about the timing, name reservation, etc. will be handled in a Q&A sit down with Corodvan and Severlin in the early parts of the new year. In the weeks following the opening of the 64-bit worlds, we will also open "dark world" transfers to the 64-bit servers to allow characters on those worlds to move over.
Does this also include RP servers like Laurelin being transferred to new servers? I was just thinking about coming back to LOTRO, but now, seeing this news, I’m not sure if it’s a good time because the future seems uncertain. I have characters on both Mordor and Laurelin, and I would love to know more before committing more time to them.
 

istvana

This *is* the other place.
At least initially the transfers to these new 64 bit worlds will not be from our 32 bit worlds, and will instead focus on our closed legacy servers. We'll have more details about the specifics of our plans in January.

This statement raised a firestorm as you, of course, noted.

When the 64-bit servers come online we will allow free and optional transfers off existing 32-bit worlds for all players

There is no possible way to read this clarification other than "What Cordovan said is not what is going to happen." Note I did not say he was wrong. He may have been accurate at the time but been superseded by later developments.
 

Eth

Member
I want to clarify information on the new 64-bit servers we plan to open in early 2025.

When the 64-bit servers come online we will allow free and optional transfers off existing 32-bit worlds for all players. More information about the timing, name reservation, etc. will be handled in a Q&A sit down with Cordovan and Severlin in the early part of the new year. In the weeks following the opening of the 64-bit worlds, we will also open "dark world" transfers to the 64-bit servers to allow characters on those worlds to move over.
Massive W (If it happens)
 

Babble

Well-known member
I want to clarify information on the new 64-bit servers we plan to open in early 2025.

When the 64-bit servers come online we will allow free and optional transfers off existing 32-bit worlds for all players. More information about the timing, name reservation, etc. will be handled in a Q&A sit down with Cordovan and Severlin in the early part of the new year. In the weeks following the opening of the 64-bit worlds, we will also open "dark world" transfers to the 64-bit servers to allow characters on those worlds to move over.
So you ARE choosing to upend existing communities on all the servers. How can you possibly consider this a positive? This is literally the worst possible way you could handle this. What a nightmare.
 

BeornAgainHard

Grumpy Old Bear
SSG you guys need to get better at this. STOP ANNOUNCING THINGS IF YOU HAVE NO INFORMATION TO PROVIDE US WITH! This "oh cordo will stream at SOME POINT and answer your questions" is just unnecessary. WAIT. TILL. THE. STREAM. TO. ANNOUNCE. IT.

Sorry for the capps, but this is like the 5th time you guys have announced stuff to early and the community is just left to wildly speculate and lose their collective minds.
 

Nenaras

🤔🤔🤔
I want to clarify information on the new 64-bit servers we plan to open in early 2025.

When the 64-bit servers come online we will allow free and optional transfers off existing 32-bit worlds for all players. More information about the timing, name reservation, etc. will be handled in a Q&A sit down with Cordovan and Severlin in the early part of the new year. In the weeks following the opening of the 64-bit worlds, we will also open "dark world" transfers to the 64-bit servers to allow characters on those worlds to move over.
I appreciate some clarification on this point, but I have to say... the roll-out of this announcement has been really, really poor. Not necessarily saying it's your fault, Orion, but the decision to release info about the new 64-bit servers and transfers in a drip-feed was not a great one.

There are positive aspects around the decision to the new 64-bit servers and their transfers: 1) the fact that we are getting 64-bit servers for everyone is great; 2) the fact that players won't have to pay for transfers to these servers, and 3) the fact that this seems to be part of an attempt to consolidate LOTRO's thinning population.

That said, this announcement paints a deeply concerning picture in other respects. If, indeed, the decision is to create two tiers of servers: servers that are 64-bit and servers that are 32-bit, SSG is fundamentally creating a scenario in which there are desirable and undesirable servers. This ensures that folks on the 32-bit servers will eventually, probably abandon the 32-bit servers for 64-bit servers (made easy with free transfers), and new players will, for the most part, join the 64-bit servers. This is effectively a choice to kill the 32-bit servers and their unique communities. The RP server of Laurelin, for one, has been sustained by not only long-time RPers, but new RP-ers, and even RPers who enjoy raiding and PvP (myself among them!). Those last two groups of players are, in time, going to vanish from Laurelin under this system, and in turn... Laurelin will go with them.

The thing is though LOTRO's servers and populations need to change - we need better servers, and we need to consolidate our playerbase, this is a terrible way to go about it. Players on Laurelin, for example, will now be fragmented across multiple servers (some 64-bit, the other 32-bit) and the unique dynamics of that community will go with it. This will be the case for many other servers. One way to maintain some of those community's dynamics, while also meeting the needs of better servers and bigger populations, would be to consolidate 32-bit servers onto 64-bit servers: you could, for example, consolidate Laurelin, Landroval onto a new 64-bit RP server, as opposed to letting these servers (and their communities) die a long and drawn out death. This is what SWTOR did during its server consolidations (to say nothing of its own upgrade to server tech, whcih didn't leave old servers by the way side), and many of its unique communities continued to thrive.

What I'm saying, here, is that though these changes need to happen, this is an extremely misguided way to go about these changes, and there are far better ways to do so. And, honestly, so long as I'm posting on these forums and playing LOTRO, I'll continue to push for them....
 
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Euphemism

Member
Will there be any possibility of capacity issues on the new servers if too many people want to transfer or revive characters from dark worlds?
 

Arduinn

Well-known member
401.jpg

Q1 looks promising. Very excited for the raid and seeing a raid in Q2 wants me to find a group again to complete these. Please tell me they both have 4 tiers atleast to make progression accesible for everyone. What do we expect from "Deed Log"? Will all deeds be revised? Slayer deeds removed?

For Uniting Shâgana I am wondering what that means. You mean uniting Shâgana with Gondor? You mean going further into Shâgana? Instances coming with this update is very nice to see. Why not wait with the level cap increase for another year? LotRO has 150 levels and it takes ages to get to endgame, so why go up again? Please make it 5 levels if possible if it is needed for sales.
I'm always torn on the level thing. 150 sounds like so many, but levels give a feeling of progression and I definitely spend longer on replay in a region if I have levels to go through (first time through is always a complete everything no matter if its a level or not). So, I'm for the traditional ten until a better solution to character progression comes along
 

Clipo

Well-known member
This decision will quite literally kill Laurelin! This is not acceptable and not a feasible way to move forward! You will be severing decade-long friendships, and gradually killing the server!

This decision cannot proceed. I encourage all players from Laurelin to speak up and advocate for a different way forward. Dividing the servers in this way means that players from Laurelin will jump ship, and new ones will NOT join. I apologize for my sharpness, but who thought this was a good idea? This is categorically unacceptable. Decisions need to nurture, not fragment and slowly bleed communities until they are dead and without ANY growth.

Rather than a split, a MERGE of two servers is a far better idea. KEEP PEOPLE TOGETHER! Please SSG I beg you DO NOT do this!

The selling point of Laurelin IS its community, without that, you LOSE the singular nature of the server.
 

Karac Avalron

Well-known member
I appreciate some clarification on this point, but I have to say... the roll-out of this announcement has been really, really poor. Not necessarily saying it's your fault, Orion, but the decision to release info about the new 64-bit servers and transfers in a drip-feed was not a great one.

There are positive aspects around the decision to the new 64-bit servers and their transfers: 1) the fact that we are getting 64-bit servers for everyone is great; 2) the fact that players won't have to pay for transfers to these servers is great, and 3) the fact that this seems to be part of an attempt to consolidate LOTRO's thinning population.

That said, this announcement paints a deeply concerning picture in other respects. If, indeed, the decision is to create two tiers of servers: servers that are 64-bit and servers that are 32-bit, SSG is fundamentally creating a scenario in which there are desirable and undesirable servers. This ensures that folks on the 32-bit servers will eventually, probably abandon the 32-bit servers for 64-bit servers (made easy with free transfers), and new players will, for the most part, join the 64-bit servers. This is effectively a choice to kill the 32-bit servers and their unique communities. The RP server of Laurelin, for one, has been sustained by not only long-time RPers, but new RP-ers, and even RPers who enjoy raiding and PvP (myself among them!). Those last two groups of players are, in time, going to vanish from Laurelin under this system, and in turn... Laurelin will go with them.

The thing is though LOTRO's servers and populations need to change - we need better servers, and we need to consolidate our playerbase, this is a terrible way to go about it. Players on Laurelin will now be fragmented across multiple servers (some 64-bit, the other 32-bit) and the unique dynamics of that community will go with it. This will be the case for many other servers. One way to maintain some of those community's dynamics, while also meeting the needs of better servers and bigger populations, would be to consolidate 32-bit servers onto 64-bit servers: you could, for example, consolidate Laurelin, Landroval onto a new 64-bit RP server, as opposed to letting these servers (and their communities) die a long and drawn out death. This is what SWTOR did during its server consolidations (to say nothing of its own upgrade to server tech, whcih didn't leave old servers by the way side), and many of its unique communities continued to thrive.

What I'm saying, here, is that though these changes need to happen, this is an extremely misguided way to go about these changes, and there are far better ways to do so. And, honestly, so long as I'm posting on these forums and playing LOTRO, I'll continue to push for them....

Hello Nenaras,

I enjoy your posts, I hope you take this reply in the spirit it is meant, a hopeful one. Some people feel things differently then others. One of the hardest things I have had to conquer as an adult is exercising more empathy to people I don't otherwise know. I think its important to be candid as well though, particularly with people with whom, I share an interest and hobby (LOTRO).

I do not disagree with you that this might have been implemented differently and ideally better. However the strength of this implementation is the fact it is not complex, for now. Simply to say, I would rather have the players in control of where they play and when they play rather then have SSG manage the entirety of that process. IMO SSG has a lot of strengths, but one of their weaknesses is managing nuanced implementations. The latest example of that is the veil of the nine, certainly they hard to anticipate the horrific outcomes in W/C when one did spawn...

My point here is SSG is in a no win situation. Implement a robust sweeping change (as an example your proposal)
"for example, consolidate Laurelin, Landroval onto a new 64-bit RP server, as opposed to letting these servers (and their communities) die a long and drawn out death."

That is a landmine of problems I don't want SSG to manage, the players would have little to no input based on historical precedent. Or roll it out as they have where the players DO have input, they chose when and where they want to play.

This was never going to be ideal, but LOTRO is moving to 64 bit. The test was a success, in the LOTRO sphere the legendary 64 bit worlds are thriving. So do you want control over your fate or do you want SSG to have control over it?
 

Nenaras

🤔🤔🤔
Hello Nenaras,

I enjoy your posts, I hope you take this reply in the spirit it is meant, a hopeful one.
I do understand your perspective - and very much appreciate the thoughtful reply! I never take offence with someone disagreeing with me; it encourages a dialogue, which I enjoy.

...but I do stand by my point all the same. While I understand the desire to have control, as you say, "over your fate", for me, that desire doesn't outweigh my desire to keep the community I belong to as intact as it possibly can be. On Laurelin, we have a really special community of players, who enjoy doing something - RP - that a lot of other players don't. To split up that community, to fragment it, means that the already difficult task of bringing RPers together (which I've spent a lot of time doing over the last year, alongside a number of other players) is made even more monumentally difficult. And this doesn't just apply to RP, but to other community niches.

While I absolutely don't think these community niches take a higher priority than giving us better quality servers and consolidating LOTRO's thinning population, I do think there are ways to mitigate the damage this roll-out might do to those niches. Yes, they may be complicated, as you say, but I would first like to see if SSG can handle those complications before they are pooh-poohed.
 

Neinda

Well-known member
Before folks start to panic, I think we should wait for the details.

If someone really wants to move to a new server and leave their old group behind, maybe it is time to wish them the best and let them go where they want to be. SSG is not breaking up communities here. They appear to be allowing folks to go where they want to go and be part of a community of personal choice. We couldn't force people to move to the same servers last consolidation. I doubt we can do that here. The people within the various communities will stick together or move as is best for each person's preferences and game enjoyment. People come and go from kins and the game all the time. A new server is the same thing on a larger scale. It is better for the game in the long term if people are happy and content.
 

Clipo

Well-known member
Before folks start to panic, I think we should wait for the details.

If someone really wants to move to a new server and leave their old group behind, maybe it is time to wish them the best and let them go where they want to be. SSG is not breaking up communities here. They appear to be allowing folks to go where they want to go and be part of a community of personal choice. We couldn't force people to move to the same servers last consolidation. I doubt we can do that here. The people within the various communities will stick together or move as is best for each person's preferences and game enjoyment.
The trouble is that the details they have given us are utterly confused and contradictory. What we know for a fact is that they are creating a two-tier system with free transfers, meaning that no one will join the old 32-bit servers like Laurelin and high-level raiders will leave. The community will not grow, and many will transfer. They are making the communities far more sparse than necessary in a game that is already so small. It is not about agency and the desire to move—that is fine. The situation is about the consequences of that on established servers. This is an MMO, not a single-player game. People rely on the community. You cannot set up your game in a way that adversely affects what the players are here to experience. If the consequence is killing a server, it is not a good decision. You underestimate JUST how close-knit Laurelin is as a community.
 

Clipo

Well-known member
I do understand your perspective - and very much appreciate the thoughtful reply! I never take offence with someone disagreeing with me; it encourages a dialogue, which I enjoy.

...but I do stand by my point all the same. While I understand the desire to have control, as you say, "over your fate", for me, that desire doesn't outweigh my desire to keep the community I belong to as intact as it possibly can be. On Laurelin, we have a really special community of players, who enjoy doing something - RP - that a lot of other players don't. To split up that community, to fragment it, means that the already difficult task of bringing RPers together (which I've spent a lot of time doing over the last year, alongside a number of other players) is made even more monumentally difficult. And this doesn't just apply to RP, but to other community niches.

While I absolutely don't think these community niches take a higher priority than giving us better quality servers and consolidating LOTRO's thinning population, I do think there are ways to mitigate the damage this roll-out might do to those niches. Yes, they may be complicated, as you say, but I would first like to see if SSG can handle those complications before they are pooh-poohed.
EXACTLY!

"To split up that community, to fragment it, means that the already difficult task of bringing RPers together (which I've spent a lot of time doing over the last year, alongside a number of other players) is made even more monumentally difficult. And this doesn't just apply to RP, but to other community niches"

Thank you, Nenaras. This is the EXACT issue. It is already SO hard to run community events. The people who still want that on Laurelin will lose it all together if this decision goes through.

People talk about agency and the desire for other players to leave, but what about those who, in the end, will have NO choice but to jump ship because of the consequences of this decision? Where is that choice?
 
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