This is going to be a rather extensive comparison and suggestion thread regarding the stat of Offensive Support classes (red Captain, blue Mariner, and blue Lore Master) and how well each can cover the major aspects of that role. After the comparison there will be suggestions on how to bring up the lower performing builds so that they are more competitive for the spot. I personally believe that when you have multiple options for a role, there should never be a universal "right" choice, and instead believe that any of the options could fill that spot. Then the choice of which class is best suited for the job would fall down to fight specifics rather than defaulting to a single choice. This also will help set up the general framework for any additional trait lines built or converted into the Offensive Support role in the future. A lot of these categories are named after the Captain's skill that applied them as that was the original class that fit this role and thus is the most common touchstone for the effects.
The following are what I am considering as the Major Role Effects for an Offensive Support:
Major Incoming Damage (aka Potent Incoming Damage) Effect
Overall I think these effects are in a solid place balance wise. They all fill the niche of "all the damage on this guy" while each having its own additional effects that allow for additional optimization. Oathies is top for single target, Boaties for AoE, Crowthies for either with the added DoT and shorter cooldown.
"To Arms" Effects
Mariner clearly holds the top spot here as West Wind is 15% for all raid members whereas To Arms is only 15% for the captain/blade brother and then 5% for the rest of the raid. Truth be told I thought the non-blade bro magnitude was 9% so seeing that its only at 5% was a bit of a shock and honestly not really sure why, though I guess captain has a few additional "always on" damage buffs that the other classes dont which balances this out. That brings us to the last place in this category which is bLM's To Arm's effect which is only 10% magnitude and only 15s duration (rCapt To Arms and West Wind are 15s duration). This makes bLM have the weakest of the "To Arms" effects for no discernable reason and with the duration being shorter it means that the timings of Exhaustion are off as well making coordinating with other Offensive Supports in a raid just a little awkward.
Suggestion: (bLM) To Arms effect increased to 15% damage and duration increased to 20s.
"Banners" Effects
Here is another category where I think things are pretty solidly balanced. Captain has lowest magnitude but also provides additional crit (this also reduces potency of cross-traited tank captains, which I think is good) and then Mariner and LM have the same magnitude and are only differentiated by one being an AoE centered on the Mariner whereas the other is a hotspot placed in front of the LM. Likewise they all have the same duration and cooldown so overall great parity.
"Telling Mark" Effect
Mariner easily has the strongest option here as it can be applied to a group of enemies rather than single target, but that doesn't mean the captain is completely useless as its Telling Mark can be applied at range and is a toggle skill rather than something that needs to be maintained. Then there is bLM which has no means of applying Telling Mark at all.
Suggestion: (bLM) I suggest adding some additional effects to the trait Don't You Touch Him and the skill Retribution. Rank 1 would remain as it is, granting Retribution and giving the damage buff. Rank 2 then augments Retribution to apply Telling Mark to the target for 60s when used with a Cat or Bog lurker pet active, or apply Revealing Mark for 60s when used with a Bird or the Bear pet active. This gives the missing offensive utility of Telling Mark with a long duration but requiring upkeep and apply-able from ranged, but also gives the option of leaning more healing focused at the cost of offensive support. Rank 3 would then allow critical hits from the pet to reduce the cooldown of Retribution by 5s every 10s. This would put Retribution at about 45s cooldown, virtually not effecting how the skill is currently used but would allow easy maintenance of the Telling Mark effect with active pet use.
Max Moral Buff
These all are equal in magnitude and duration so there's no issues there. The only differences lies with the secondary effects, in which captain is easily the strongest at is gives a bunch of main stats whereas the others do not. I dont really see this as a downside as any other captain that is tanking or healing in a group could also provide these and its not exclusive to the red captain line.
"Inspire" Effect
Captain's Inspire is probably one of the busiest skills in the entire game with it providing a a small handful of buffs for self/blade brother, a lesser damage buff for the rest of the raid, strong power return for self/blade bro, a lesser power heal for raid, and is the trigger for Master of War. While Inspire is a corner stone of rCaptain's rotation, the equivalent effect for Mariner/LM is simply a 4% buff that is easily maintained with high uptime. While the magnitude is lower than the self/blade bro part of Inspire, it is higher than the group buff aspect and thus I think overall this category is balanced well enough.
"Rallying Cry" Damage Buff
Captain and Mariner both cover this effect with similar durations and the same magnitude. The issue lies again with LM which has no such effect at its disposal.
Suggestion: (bLM) Consuming a Flanked Effect with Wizard Frost applies the Rallying Cry Damage buff with a duration of 60s. This wouldn't be all that crazy of a change but would mean that the bLM would want to pepper in a Wizard Frost periodically to maintain the buff if there was no other Offensive Support in the group. Requiring it to consume a flank would mean that it couldn't just be applied/refreshed via Retribution, and would effectively mean trading a Flanked Staff Strike/Flanked Wizard Lightning in favor of the group buff.
Attack Duration Buff
Considering that only Captain can bring any attack duration reduction effects within this role its easy to see why this is a missing component of the role.
Suggestion: (bMar) this could be as simple as just adding a "Lesser Penetrating Cry" (-10% attack duration) effect to North Wind that lasts for 70s and within the same bucket as the Penetrating Cry effect from Captain and would be overwritten by the stronger effect.
(bLM) I think giving Minor Pet Command a "Lesser Penetrating Cry" (-10% attack duration) that lasts for 30s and is over written by the Captain's effect.
These would both allow the Mariner and Lore Master to provide a similar effect in the event that there isn't a rCaptain in the group, but would keep the rCaptain at its spot of having the strongest effect.
"Master of War" Effect
Herein Mariner is easily the strongest as it is a +25-35% crit chance for 3s for the whole raid every 20s consistently. Captain's Master of War effect can trigger every 18s if using Inspire off cooldown, but requires critically hitting with that Inspire and only applies to the captain and the blade brother. Lore master once again has no means of providing this effect.
Suggestions: (rCapt) Personally I think captains should be able to also trigger off of critical hits with Shadows Lament as well (it used to trigger off of both) and should carry a lesser effect for the non-brother members of the raid of +10% crit chance.
(bLM) I think a rework of Critical Coordination where instead of it being an auto crit for the LM's next skill, which can frequently be consumed by skills that aren't major parts of the damage profile, I think it should instead give +25% critical chance to the raid for 4s with a 20s cooldown (cooldown is currently 15s).
These changes would allow Captain to in theory apply its effect the most often but being reliant on critical hits with specific skills and having the lowest magnitude. Then Lore Master would be the most passive application as it would rely on critical hits with pets which encourages active pet buffing and use and thus having the median effect magnitude. Then Mariner would remain at the top of the pile with its consistent application and highest magnitude.
Run Speed Buff
Another category where Captain and Mariner have their effects and LM has nothing.
Suggestion: (bLM) A new trait in Keeper of Animals, likely around tier 3 or 4, that grants a skills that gives a group run speed buff. This run speed could even be doubled in magnitude for your pet as a means of letting the melee pets get into the action faster if desired but overall as long as it falls along the pattern of ~20% for a longer duration or upwards of 35% for a short duration with a cooldown between 1-2 minutes I think the skill would fill the niche as needed.
The following are what I am considering as the Minor Role Effects and while I do not think they are something that every Offensive Support needs to bring in their kit, it should at least be noted that their effects are overall buffs to the group which would skew the balance of the role.
Relentless Attack
This is captain specific, granting 5% damage, 2% critical chance, and -5% attack duration to the raid. Mariner and Lore Master have no means of replicating this effect.
Additional Incoming Damage Effect
This is a very small incoming damage debuff that is itself unique and thus stacks with all other effects outside of itself. Captains get this effect passively while in Lead the Charge and it gives +2% Incoming Melee Damage. This may be a bug or just a tooltip error as the passive effect says 2% more damage but the debuff specifies it only applies to melee damage. Mariner's can trait into Salt Cure, which is a slightly stronger effect at 2.5% and has a rather long duration but it requires removing a corruption which may or may not be present in the fight. Lore Masters have no such effect.
Suggestion: (bLM) As part of the Fellowship Friend trait adding in a small 2% incoming damage debuff applied via pet critical that lasts for 20s. This would increase the utility of using a pet that can hit multiple targets like the Saber Cat.
(rCapt) Lead the Charge effect should be changed to include all damage styles.
Pet/Herald passives
Captains Heralds can provide an assortment of small passive effects but these are limited to only the fellowship that the captain is part of. These include 3% damage, 2% physical/tactical mits, or -7.5% power cost. These effects are rather small and limiting but they are effectively free as long as the Herald remains alive. Lore Master's also gain an assortment of group buffs based on the pet they have active and applied via critical hits with the pet. These include -5% inc melee dmg/-2% inc ranged dmg (bear), -5% inc tactical dmg/-2% inc ranged dmg (birds), +3% melee dmg/+2% tactical dmg (cats), or +3% ranged dmg/+2% tactical dmg (boglurker). While these are more specific effects, I think the fact that they are raid wide keeps them from being too strong and they give the class options to run a specific pet for a unique scenario. Mariner's have nothing that fits into this style of effect.
Light of Elendil
This is another captain specific effect that provides a small amount of additional utility that no other Offensive Support can. This gives 5% Light Damage, 3% Shadow mits, and 5% crit defense for 10s after using Blade of Elendil.
The final category I think that every Offensive Support should have to fill the role is a strong defensive effect. These effects are often on very long cooldowns to act as last resort skills to either bring a fight back from the brink or to help mitigate getting to that brink in the first place.
Captain's have Escape from Darkness, a single target rez which can restore a player back to 50-100% moral and 25-50% power with a 5min cooldown.
Mariner's have Guided by the Stars, a unique effect that grants +15% single target healing crit chance, +25% incoming healing, +50% crit defense, and a leveled amount of finesse (32400 @ 150) for 30s. With the current raid armour set this skill also gains a x0.7 incoming damage effect for 15s. This effect has a 215s cooldown, with the ability to reduce the cooldown by 3s every 15s with active skill use.
Lore Masters have no such defensive skill.
Suggestions: (bMar) I personally think that Guided by the Stars should have at least a x0.9 inc damage effect as part of the base skill, and then the raid set increasing that effect by +20% to the current x0.7. It would mean that this skill remains a defensive option even after this current raid cycle and its cooldown is long enough that its uptime wouldn't be used casually but rather saved for specific events.
(bLM) New trait in Keeper of Animals, around tier 5 or 6, that improves Inner Flame while increasing its cooldown. This "Improved Inner Flame" would heal all allies within 15m of the Lore Master every 1s for its 5.5s channel duration and provides an aura of x0.9 incoming damage for the duration. Improved Inner Flame's cooldown would be 3min but consuming a Flanked Effect would reduce the active cooldown by 2s, which would put the cooldown around 150s with active skill usage.
The following are what I am considering as the Major Role Effects for an Offensive Support:
Major Incoming Damage (aka Potent Incoming Damage) Effect
Overall I think these effects are in a solid place balance wise. They all fill the niche of "all the damage on this guy" while each having its own additional effects that allow for additional optimization. Oathies is top for single target, Boaties for AoE, Crowthies for either with the added DoT and shorter cooldown.
"To Arms" Effects
Mariner clearly holds the top spot here as West Wind is 15% for all raid members whereas To Arms is only 15% for the captain/blade brother and then 5% for the rest of the raid. Truth be told I thought the non-blade bro magnitude was 9% so seeing that its only at 5% was a bit of a shock and honestly not really sure why, though I guess captain has a few additional "always on" damage buffs that the other classes dont which balances this out. That brings us to the last place in this category which is bLM's To Arm's effect which is only 10% magnitude and only 15s duration (rCapt To Arms and West Wind are 15s duration). This makes bLM have the weakest of the "To Arms" effects for no discernable reason and with the duration being shorter it means that the timings of Exhaustion are off as well making coordinating with other Offensive Supports in a raid just a little awkward.
Suggestion: (bLM) To Arms effect increased to 15% damage and duration increased to 20s.
"Banners" Effects
Here is another category where I think things are pretty solidly balanced. Captain has lowest magnitude but also provides additional crit (this also reduces potency of cross-traited tank captains, which I think is good) and then Mariner and LM have the same magnitude and are only differentiated by one being an AoE centered on the Mariner whereas the other is a hotspot placed in front of the LM. Likewise they all have the same duration and cooldown so overall great parity.
"Telling Mark" Effect
Mariner easily has the strongest option here as it can be applied to a group of enemies rather than single target, but that doesn't mean the captain is completely useless as its Telling Mark can be applied at range and is a toggle skill rather than something that needs to be maintained. Then there is bLM which has no means of applying Telling Mark at all.
Suggestion: (bLM) I suggest adding some additional effects to the trait Don't You Touch Him and the skill Retribution. Rank 1 would remain as it is, granting Retribution and giving the damage buff. Rank 2 then augments Retribution to apply Telling Mark to the target for 60s when used with a Cat or Bog lurker pet active, or apply Revealing Mark for 60s when used with a Bird or the Bear pet active. This gives the missing offensive utility of Telling Mark with a long duration but requiring upkeep and apply-able from ranged, but also gives the option of leaning more healing focused at the cost of offensive support. Rank 3 would then allow critical hits from the pet to reduce the cooldown of Retribution by 5s every 10s. This would put Retribution at about 45s cooldown, virtually not effecting how the skill is currently used but would allow easy maintenance of the Telling Mark effect with active pet use.
Max Moral Buff
These all are equal in magnitude and duration so there's no issues there. The only differences lies with the secondary effects, in which captain is easily the strongest at is gives a bunch of main stats whereas the others do not. I dont really see this as a downside as any other captain that is tanking or healing in a group could also provide these and its not exclusive to the red captain line.
"Inspire" Effect
Captain's Inspire is probably one of the busiest skills in the entire game with it providing a a small handful of buffs for self/blade brother, a lesser damage buff for the rest of the raid, strong power return for self/blade bro, a lesser power heal for raid, and is the trigger for Master of War. While Inspire is a corner stone of rCaptain's rotation, the equivalent effect for Mariner/LM is simply a 4% buff that is easily maintained with high uptime. While the magnitude is lower than the self/blade bro part of Inspire, it is higher than the group buff aspect and thus I think overall this category is balanced well enough.
"Rallying Cry" Damage Buff
Captain and Mariner both cover this effect with similar durations and the same magnitude. The issue lies again with LM which has no such effect at its disposal.
Suggestion: (bLM) Consuming a Flanked Effect with Wizard Frost applies the Rallying Cry Damage buff with a duration of 60s. This wouldn't be all that crazy of a change but would mean that the bLM would want to pepper in a Wizard Frost periodically to maintain the buff if there was no other Offensive Support in the group. Requiring it to consume a flank would mean that it couldn't just be applied/refreshed via Retribution, and would effectively mean trading a Flanked Staff Strike/Flanked Wizard Lightning in favor of the group buff.
Attack Duration Buff
Considering that only Captain can bring any attack duration reduction effects within this role its easy to see why this is a missing component of the role.
Suggestion: (bMar) this could be as simple as just adding a "Lesser Penetrating Cry" (-10% attack duration) effect to North Wind that lasts for 70s and within the same bucket as the Penetrating Cry effect from Captain and would be overwritten by the stronger effect.
(bLM) I think giving Minor Pet Command a "Lesser Penetrating Cry" (-10% attack duration) that lasts for 30s and is over written by the Captain's effect.
These would both allow the Mariner and Lore Master to provide a similar effect in the event that there isn't a rCaptain in the group, but would keep the rCaptain at its spot of having the strongest effect.
"Master of War" Effect
Herein Mariner is easily the strongest as it is a +25-35% crit chance for 3s for the whole raid every 20s consistently. Captain's Master of War effect can trigger every 18s if using Inspire off cooldown, but requires critically hitting with that Inspire and only applies to the captain and the blade brother. Lore master once again has no means of providing this effect.
Suggestions: (rCapt) Personally I think captains should be able to also trigger off of critical hits with Shadows Lament as well (it used to trigger off of both) and should carry a lesser effect for the non-brother members of the raid of +10% crit chance.
(bLM) I think a rework of Critical Coordination where instead of it being an auto crit for the LM's next skill, which can frequently be consumed by skills that aren't major parts of the damage profile, I think it should instead give +25% critical chance to the raid for 4s with a 20s cooldown (cooldown is currently 15s).
These changes would allow Captain to in theory apply its effect the most often but being reliant on critical hits with specific skills and having the lowest magnitude. Then Lore Master would be the most passive application as it would rely on critical hits with pets which encourages active pet buffing and use and thus having the median effect magnitude. Then Mariner would remain at the top of the pile with its consistent application and highest magnitude.
Run Speed Buff
Another category where Captain and Mariner have their effects and LM has nothing.
Suggestion: (bLM) A new trait in Keeper of Animals, likely around tier 3 or 4, that grants a skills that gives a group run speed buff. This run speed could even be doubled in magnitude for your pet as a means of letting the melee pets get into the action faster if desired but overall as long as it falls along the pattern of ~20% for a longer duration or upwards of 35% for a short duration with a cooldown between 1-2 minutes I think the skill would fill the niche as needed.
The following are what I am considering as the Minor Role Effects and while I do not think they are something that every Offensive Support needs to bring in their kit, it should at least be noted that their effects are overall buffs to the group which would skew the balance of the role.
Relentless Attack
This is captain specific, granting 5% damage, 2% critical chance, and -5% attack duration to the raid. Mariner and Lore Master have no means of replicating this effect.
Additional Incoming Damage Effect
This is a very small incoming damage debuff that is itself unique and thus stacks with all other effects outside of itself. Captains get this effect passively while in Lead the Charge and it gives +2% Incoming Melee Damage. This may be a bug or just a tooltip error as the passive effect says 2% more damage but the debuff specifies it only applies to melee damage. Mariner's can trait into Salt Cure, which is a slightly stronger effect at 2.5% and has a rather long duration but it requires removing a corruption which may or may not be present in the fight. Lore Masters have no such effect.
Suggestion: (bLM) As part of the Fellowship Friend trait adding in a small 2% incoming damage debuff applied via pet critical that lasts for 20s. This would increase the utility of using a pet that can hit multiple targets like the Saber Cat.
(rCapt) Lead the Charge effect should be changed to include all damage styles.
Pet/Herald passives
Captains Heralds can provide an assortment of small passive effects but these are limited to only the fellowship that the captain is part of. These include 3% damage, 2% physical/tactical mits, or -7.5% power cost. These effects are rather small and limiting but they are effectively free as long as the Herald remains alive. Lore Master's also gain an assortment of group buffs based on the pet they have active and applied via critical hits with the pet. These include -5% inc melee dmg/-2% inc ranged dmg (bear), -5% inc tactical dmg/-2% inc ranged dmg (birds), +3% melee dmg/+2% tactical dmg (cats), or +3% ranged dmg/+2% tactical dmg (boglurker). While these are more specific effects, I think the fact that they are raid wide keeps them from being too strong and they give the class options to run a specific pet for a unique scenario. Mariner's have nothing that fits into this style of effect.
Light of Elendil
This is another captain specific effect that provides a small amount of additional utility that no other Offensive Support can. This gives 5% Light Damage, 3% Shadow mits, and 5% crit defense for 10s after using Blade of Elendil.
The final category I think that every Offensive Support should have to fill the role is a strong defensive effect. These effects are often on very long cooldowns to act as last resort skills to either bring a fight back from the brink or to help mitigate getting to that brink in the first place.
Captain's have Escape from Darkness, a single target rez which can restore a player back to 50-100% moral and 25-50% power with a 5min cooldown.
Mariner's have Guided by the Stars, a unique effect that grants +15% single target healing crit chance, +25% incoming healing, +50% crit defense, and a leveled amount of finesse (32400 @ 150) for 30s. With the current raid armour set this skill also gains a x0.7 incoming damage effect for 15s. This effect has a 215s cooldown, with the ability to reduce the cooldown by 3s every 15s with active skill use.
Lore Masters have no such defensive skill.
Suggestions: (bMar) I personally think that Guided by the Stars should have at least a x0.9 inc damage effect as part of the base skill, and then the raid set increasing that effect by +20% to the current x0.7. It would mean that this skill remains a defensive option even after this current raid cycle and its cooldown is long enough that its uptime wouldn't be used casually but rather saved for specific events.
(bLM) New trait in Keeper of Animals, around tier 5 or 6, that improves Inner Flame while increasing its cooldown. This "Improved Inner Flame" would heal all allies within 15m of the Lore Master every 1s for its 5.5s channel duration and provides an aura of x0.9 incoming damage for the duration. Improved Inner Flame's cooldown would be 3min but consuming a Flanked Effect would reduce the active cooldown by 2s, which would put the cooldown around 150s with active skill usage.
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