Guardian Refresh - The Keen Blade

[targ]

Do you understand what I'm saying? Why exactly do you need to have that bleed up for +X seconds? I just assume you don't understand it, or please, give me a meaningful reason if you did. (And also, if you have understand it correctly, then my apologise for the explanation.)

So, let me say the Slashing Wound (Sweeping Cut's bleed) gives 50k damage per tick, every 2.0 sec, for 12 sec. This means it has 6 bleed ticks, which adds up to 300k damage at the end of the 12 sec, also, 300k damage (and the initial skill damage, it's irrelevant for now) per use of Sweeping Cut.

Changing to bleeds to tick every 1.5 sec, it would mean that it would have 6 ticks, 50k damage per tick, and 300k damage at the end of the 9 sec. (Surprising isn't it?)

The difference is when you use Sweeping Cut again. If you use it at 12+ seconds, then they will do the same damage, again. But, if you use it 9-11 seconds after the first use, then the 2.0 sec bleed would have 50-100k 'unused' damage (decreasing the skill's bleed damage to 200-250k), while with the 1.5 sec bleed, it already expired, which means it has done the full 300k of it's damage.

Of course, really, the other solution would be that 'Bleed Them Dry' makes the bleeds stackable, which wouldn't do anything (compared to current live) for shorter fights, would give around the same damage at longer fights as a 1.5 sec bleed tick would, and would mess up Rupture, because theoretically, you could cash out 8-10 bleeds if you manage to get them. I don't advise this.

i know a couple of guard players really hate the idea of being a dps class and thinking like a dps class, but that is simply the purpose of a dps line.
and the goal is to do as much damage as possible by using a good rotation. and the main aspect of a rotation is that you use lots of skills off CD and try to get the most damage you can out of them.
now saying "just don't use these skills off CD to get the most out of their (way too long lasting) bleeds" would work... if that was all those skills do... HOWEVER in the case of guardian, the initial hits of these skills can be pretty damn strong. overwhelm currently is your 2nd strongest damage source, if you follow a proper rotation, and the bleeds of red guardian fall behind by quite a bit. part of the reason for that is that the bleeds last too long (specifically deep and terrible wound; slashing and haemorrhaging wound are fine), making you waste bleed pulses by refreshing them in your normal rotation.
that's why we call for the solution that at least deep and terrible wound should do their damage quicker - be that by making them stronger with less pulses, or making them pulse faster, doesn't really matter, either way works.

and the whole mentality of "i don't wanna do it like that, so that change should not happen" can go leave right now, it only inhibits any progress.

 

[Tepee]

I understand what you're suggesting, but for example with Haermorrhaging Wound lasting 7.5 seconds, no one is going to wait 10 seconds to reuse Brutal Assault like they do now. It would have to be used every 7.5 seconds to maximize damage, and that would shift the timings of the entire rotation. It's much easier to set the same duration for all bleeds at 10-12 seconds. This will have no effect on the current rotation, and will guarantee that each bleed used once in each rotation cycle will be refreshed strictly at the end of its duration and therefore do its full damage.

So you do not want to use the skills on cooldown, you want to glue your eyes to the enemy's debuff panel, and determine which skill you have to play by seeing which bleed has already expired.
Well, I don't. So, I guess increase the cooldown of these skills substantially, so we'll both be happy, and DPS would go to hell, but who cares, we'll have a comfy rotation. ?

 

[Rino90]

So you do not want to use the skills on cooldown, you want to glue your eyes to the enemy's debuff panel, and determine which skill you have to play by seeing which bleed has already expired.
Well, I don't. So, I guess increase the cooldown of these skills substantially, so we'll both be happy, and DPS would go to hell, but who cares, we'll have a comfy rotation. ?

Some demagoguery seems to have begun. I'm even curious to see your 10 second rotation, where there is always room for more frequent use of extremely low direct damage skills like Brutal Assault and Thrust without sacrificing the APS of core skills like Sting and To The King.

 

[Tepee]

Some demagoguery seems to have begun. I'm even curious to see your 10 second rotation, where there is always room for more frequent use of extremely low direct damage skills like Brutal Assault and Thrust without sacrificing the APS of core skills like Sting and To The King.

It was an idea, and I could not understand your reaoning, because mathematically it just wasn't right for me.

See Orion's new post, you will happy, I will happy, I think we can abandon this argument.

 

[Rino90]

It was an idea, and I could not understand your reaoning, because mathematically it just wasn't right for me.

See Orion's new post, you will happy, I will happy, I think we can abandon this argument.

I wasn't arguing with you. Just offered a more logical option from my perspective that is guaranteed not to negatively affect the current rotation. Why that led to such an obvious example of a straw man fallacy is a big mystery.

 

[Tepee]

I wasn't arguing with you. Just offered a more logical option from my perspective that is guaranteed not to negatively affect the current rotation. Why that led to such an obvious example of a straw man fallacy is a big mystery.

It just have been a damage increase if you don't change anything in your rotation, and I haven't seen why it would be a problem.
I apologise for my mocking, it is just that I saw that the most important thing for you is to not change your muscle-memory rotation, which I can relate to, but again, shouldn't be a main argument imo.

 

[targ]

It just have been a damage increase if you don't change anything in your rotation, and I haven't seen why it would be a problem.
I apologise for my mocking, it is just that I saw that the most important thing for you is to not change your muscle-memory rotation, which I can relate to, but again, shouldn't be a main argument imo.

currently proposed changes will change muscle memory anyway (especially with itp immediate going away).

but it is just frustrating that current optimal rotation lets so many bleed pulses go to waste, and increasing the duration of all bleeds makes that problem worse.

imho, sweeping cut can be increased in duration, since the skill is slow and weak, brutal assault is perfect since it's duration lines up well with stamp to cut, thrust and overwhelm can go down to 10-12s each tho (with increased damage or frequency), since they are too long and you lose out on pulses.

alternatively, could make the bleeds stack and have rupture cap at 4 or 5 cashouts max

 

[Zipfile]

alternatively, could make the bleeds stack and have rupture cap at 4 or 5 cashouts max

Could cause issues with Insult to Injury.

 

[targ]

Could cause issues with Insult to Injury.

fair