Guardian Refresh - The Keen Blade

Orion

Lead Designer
Hot off the heels of yesterday, let's take a look at how we are planning on changing the Guardians secondary spec, The Keen Blade

The ultimate goal with altering The Keen Blade is to give the guardian the ability to occupy a true DPS role at end game. The inherent survivability of the class means that there needs to be a little bit of a trade off when coming into The Keen Blade and that is why their self heals will be considerably lower. In fact, they will be cut in half. This follows the trend that we have for the damage aspect of other classes, so we don't believe that this is too much of a departure.

We are also leaning, more heavily, into bleeds and putting a new premium on critical chance with The Keen Blade. Rather than describing the changes in prose, let us move to the breakdown.

The Keen Blade​

Descriptor: Uses bleeds and High-damage attacks to defeat foes

Role: Focuses on dealing damage. Skills have a high base damage, bleeds and powerful finishing skills.

Innate Bonus: Guardian self-healing is reduced by 50%, Retaliation and Whirling Retaliation become Breach and Whirling Breach; these skill allow the use of Parry and Block response chains. Parry and Block response skills deal 15% more damage.
Earns the skill Overwhlem

The Keen Blade
Thrill of Battle 5 Ranks

Your successful damage attacks increase your critical chance by 1%/tier and stack up to five times. Critical hits reset the effect.
Heavy Weapons Training 5 ranks

+2% Skill Damage/tier

+1% Damage to Two-handed Weapons/tier
Valorous Strength

+10% Melee Damage

+10% Critcal Chance
Broad Strokes 2 ranks

50% chance for Sweeping Cut to apply a bleed to targets +1 Sweeping Cut Target per rank
Thrust
Earns the skill: Thrust
Removed via edit
Bleed Them Dry

All Guardian Bleeds have an extended duration
Brutal Assault

Earns the skill: Brutal Assault
Tireless Blows 5 ranks – requires Brutal Assault

+10% for Parry and Block Response skills to reset Brutal Assault Cooldown
Invigourating Response 4 ranks

Critical hits with Parry and Block response skills restore 1% power per rank
Protection by the Sword

Grants the Skill: Protection by the Sword
Deeper Wounds 5 ranks – req. Thrust


+1 Increase to Deep Wound Pulses

+3% Increase damage of Deep Wound and Terrible Wounds per rank
To the King

Earns the skill: To the King
Battle-fury

Grants the Skill: Battle-fury
Haemorrhage 5 ranks – req Brutal Assault

+20% chance for Brutal Assault to cause a bleed on your target per rank

+3% bleed damage per rank
Into the Fray 6 ranks

Ranks 1-6

+2% Charge run speed/rank

+1 Charge duration/rank

Rank 6

Your next melee attack automatically crits
Brutal Charge

Charge becomes Brutal Charge

+5s Charge Duration and Melee Skills attempt knockdown
Warrior’s Advantage Ranks 1

+[Level Based Value] Physical Mastery

+1% Melee Crit Chance

+1% Parry Chance

+1.5% Partial Parry Chance
Blind Rage 5 ranks

+20% Chance that To the King will increase your melee damage by 10% and your attack speed by 20% per rank
Heavy Blows

+5% Melee Damage

+10% Crit Damage
Hammer Down

Earns the skill: Hammer Down
Rupture requires Hammer Down

Successful hits with Hammer Down remove all current bleeds and increases incoming damage on the target by 2% for each bleed removed. /rank

Adds a short cycle heavy bleed on the target.
Prey on the Weak

Successful attacks against an opponent suffering from bleeds will inflict additional Damage

There are some truly transformative changes here to make the Guardian into a true damage dealer. Let us take a look at some of these.

First, Force Opening is no longer here, we will discuss that more when we get to The Fighter of Shadow tree, but for now we should be looking at the first major change: Retaliation and Whirling Retaliation. These two skills are replaced with Breach and Whirling Breach when specializing in The Keen Blade. The skills immediately open parry and block responses. This serves as a new opener for the Guardian and helps with their consistent damage output offered by the Parry and Block response damage bonus conferred by the baseline trait boost. You also earn the skill Overwhelm.

Thrill of Battle loses the heal aspect and becomes a critical chance bonus at 1% bonus per rank in the trait that stacks up to 5 times. This means that at rank 5 your critical chance on melee skills increases up to 25% from this trait alone. To balance that out, when you score a critical hit, the bonus is removed and reset so that you need to build back up. Taking this trait to its max should provide a level of clear consistency when executing guardian melee skills. And, to answer the question - no this does not apply to the critical on bleeds.

Skilled Deflection is removed from The Keen Blade and put back in through The Fighter of Shadow, all things in good time.

Heavy Weapons Training maintains the bonus to melee skills and adds a per rank bonus to using two-handed weapons. Yes, we are leaning into the desire to have two-handed weapons be the preferred style for the Guardian. But, if there are some changes to be made, it is possible that there could be an additional trait added to help Shield-bearing Keen Bladers to get a similar boost.

Bleed Them Dry moves up closer to the top of the Trait Set bonus, as we want more emphasis on the bleeds it just made sense and the fact that Reactive Parry was underwhelming.

Invigourating Response replaces Invigourating Parry and opens up Block response skills to the regeneration of power. Again, when taken in conjunction with Thrill of Battle the consistency to restore power should make a couple trait points in this trait yield the proverbial fruit.

Protection by the Sword like its The Defender of the Free counterpart is an aura conferred to fellowship and raid members near the guardian. This toggle cannot be interrupted and adds a damage boost to melee and ranged damage at a base 3%, currently. In addition, if a player affected by Protection by the sword scores a parry or a block, the Guardian opens the use of the response chain skills.

Battle-fury the new trait set bonus is an activated skill with a long cooldown that boosts the Guardian's damage and critical magnitude by a whopping 20% for 20s currently. We do expect that we might need to rein this in a little.

Into the Fray gets a minor nerf at the capstone rank with the trait only affecting the next melee attack.

Warrior's Advantage no longer modifies the skill Warrior's Heart. Instead, the trait becomes a passive boon present on the Guardian at all times.

Rupture replaces Honourable Combat and now modifies Hammer Down. Rupture alters the effect of Hammer Down to a) strip all current bleeds from the target dealing bonus damage for each bleed removed; b) each bleed removed increases damage dealt to the target by 2.5% for 5 seconds - this means that a target with four active bleeds removed has their incoming damage increased by 10% for 20s and lastly; c) applies a new bleed "Ruptured Artery" to the target that bleeds every 2 seconds for six seconds.

Those are all the changes currently implemented and soon to go under review. Numbers will need to be reviewed to ensure that The Keen Blade does not tip the scales too much, but all of that should work itself out as we march toward the first viewing on Bullroarer.

I hope to have the last portion of the tree detailed by the end of the day today. Keep your eyes open for the change to The Fighter of Shadow.
 
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Zipfile

Well-known member
Big yes, with some concerns:

  • Rebalance Bleed damage hierarchy:
    • Deep Wound deals, by far, the least damage and yet for some reason lasts the longest.
      • Reduce the duration considerably, increase the damage considerably
    • Reduce Slashing Wound by one tick (2 seconds), but increase it's damage. It already has 125% uptime, so there's wasted time.
    • Terrible Wound currently doesn't benefit from Overwhelm Damage tracery
      • Unlike Slashing Wound benefiting from Sweeping Cut Damage tracery.
      • Unlike Haemorrhaging Wound benefiting from Brutal Assault Damage tracery.
    • This would end up evening out the damage spread of all Bleeds a bit, as currently Haemorrhaging beats out Terrible Wound, with Slashing and Deep Wounds falling way behind.
  • Warriors Advantage is a massive nerf in Physical Mastery compared to the live values. On live, it gives 47200 Physical Mastery at level cap.
    • Edit: Seeing the stat squish talk, this can be ignored.
  • Protection By The Sword:
    • What's the AOE? I assume similar to Blue's counterpart.
    • Melee and Ranged damage are named, what about Tactical?
  • There's quite a few other balancing concerns, as well as performance issues of the gameplay that could be addressed:
    • Namely the incessant requirement for animation cutting with Ignore The Pain which is absurd
    • Damage on some skills is really low and should be rebalanced to make them more appealing to use in their niches
    • Demoralizing Anthem not working on Specialization Bestowed skills is also a huge bug that's been in the game since trait trees were made. Efforts to correct this broke more than things than they fixed and the solution was shelved around 4 years ago. Could be a good time to check it out again.

    Overall, this looks promising. Hopefully we'll see how it performs soon.
 
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Orion

Lead Designer
Big yes, with some concerns:

  • Rebalance Bleed damage hierarchy:
    • Deep Wound deals, by far, the least damage and yet for some reason lasts the longest.
      • Reduce the duration considerably, increase the damage considerably
    • Reduce Slashing Wound by one tick (2 seconds), but increase it's damage. It already has 125% uptime, so there's wasted time.
    • Terrible Wound currently doesn't benefit from Overwhelm Damage tracery
      • Unlike Slashing Wound benefiting from Sweeping Cut Damage tracery.
      • Unlike Haemorrhaging Wound benefiting from Brutal Assault Damage tracery.
    • This would end up evening out the damage spread of all Bleeds a bit, as currently Haemorrhaging beats out Terrible Wound, with Slashing and Deep Wounds falling way behind.
  • Warriors Advantage is a massive nerf in Physical Mastery compared to the live values. On live, it gives 47200 Physical Mastery at level cap.
    • Edit: Seeing the stat squish talk, this can be ignored.
  • Protection By The Sword:
    • What's the AOE? I assume similar to Blue's counterpart.
    • Melee and Ranged damage are named, what about Tactical?
  • There's quite a few other balancing concerns, as well as performance issues of the gameplay that could be addressed:
    • Namely the incessant requirement for animation cutting with Ignore The Pain which is absurd
    • Damage on some skills is really low and should be rebalanced to make them more appealing to use in their niches
    • Demoralizing Anthem not working on Specialization Bestowed skills is also a huge bug that's been in the game since trait trees were made. Efforts to correct this broke more than things than they fixed and the solution was shelved around 4 years ago. Could be a good time to check it out again.

    Overall, this looks promising. Hopefully we'll see how it performs soon.
Warrior's Advantage is also a 100% uptime now, so the benefits do need to be a little less.
Protection by the sword is 30m; it does not currently affect tactical.
 

Pharone

Twitch Streamer
This seems pretty good. I am curious about one thing, and forgive me if this is common place at high levels because my highest is level 75 currently. If the emphasis for red guardian is to encourage 2 handed weapons (which is fine to me) and obviously the blue guardian is sword and board, for someone to have 2 specs (one for solo overland content, aka red guardian with 2 hander and one for group instance content, aka blue guardian with 1hander and shield) does that mean that they would be expected to maintain upgrading both a 2 handed LI and a 1 handed LI?

I'm assuming yes because that seems like the obvious answer to me. Currently I run sword and board on my guardian characters (yes multiple... I love the guardian class lol), but I would love to also use the 2hander for some mass slaughtering fun.

With the expectation of being encouraged to have two different viable LIs at all times, could we get the Ancient Script bumped up from 10000 to say 20000 instead or have a way to easily upgrade an alternate LI? Just spitballing here.
 

Orion

Lead Designer
This seems pretty good. I am curious about one thing, and forgive me if this is common place at high levels because my highest is level 75 currently. If the emphasis for red guardian is to encourage 2 handed weapons (which is fine to me) and obviously the blue guardian is sword and board, for someone to have 2 specs (one for solo overland content, aka red guardian with 2 hander and one for group instance content, aka blue guardian with 1hander and shield) does that mean that they would be expected to maintain upgrading both a 2 handed LI and a 1 handed LI?

I'm assuming yes because that seems like the obvious answer to me. Currently I run sword and board on my guardian characters (yes multiple... I love the guardian class lol), but I would love to also use the 2hander for some mass slaughtering fun.

With the expectation of being encouraged to have two different viable LIs at all times, could we get the Ancient Script bumped up from 10000 to say 20000 instead or have a way to easily upgrade an alternate LI? Just spitballing here.
If you want to play both roles, then yes, the expectation at higher levels is that you work toward upgrading and maintaining two LIs.
 

Break

Member
Yesterday in the blue line post you said -50% incoming healing for red, today you said it only halves self heals. Can you confirm it will only affect self heals, and is not an incoming healing stat debuff?

Did you decide to kill the idea of ward giving a damage buff? Also did you have plans for giving guardians some reasonable method/play paradigm for aoe?
 

Polaris1731

New member
Put me in the "additional trait added to help Shield-bearing Keen Bladers to get a similar boost" camp. I get that two roles should have two different LI's and that the endgame optimal choice should be 2-handers, but with keen blade being the go-to solo/leveling spec and the class "feel" and thematics being so heavily slanted toward weapon and shield it feels... off that there isn't a similar but (if by necessity) inferior version of heavy weapons training available for using a one hander and shield.
 

Orion

Lead Designer
Yesterday in the blue line post you said -50% incoming healing for red, today you said it only halves self heals. Can you confirm it will only affect self heals, and is not an incoming healing stat debuff?

Did you decide to kill the idea of ward giving a damage buff? Also did you have plans for giving guardians some reasonable method/play paradigm for aoe?
Omission by writing too quickly to get the post up? Human error. Chalk it up however you may. The outline in this thread is the current status - or will be.
 

Cap

Crafting Main
So to be clear, self-heals being cut in half means Catch a Breath/WH/Thrill of Danger heals will be hit with a x0.5 multiplier after traits/traceries? I'm okay with this. Much better than flat incoming healing.
 

Zipfile

Well-known member
Warrior's Advantage is also a 100% uptime now, so the benefits do need to be a little less.

Warriors Fortitude - Blade also has a 100% uptime and is 5 times as powerful, so...uhm....insert question marks here.

Also, 8000 mastery is a bit of a mockery considering how massive the numbers are already.
Unless of course, these are the numbers meant to be used after the upcoming stat squish for U37?
 

Cap

Crafting Main
Heavy Weapons Training
Heavy shields should certainly qualify as heavy weapons. Perhaps each rank could extend the duration of shield stuns by 0.5s (up to 2.5s)? That feels thematically appropriate and would certainly make some of my late level cap builds more interesting. ?

Battle-fury
Maybe instead of being a separate skill this functionality could be applied to Warrior's Heart. I think this would introduce some interesting decision-making for Keen Bladers in play and build.
 
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Orion

Lead Designer
  • Warriors Advantage is a massive nerf in Physical Mastery compared to the live values. On live, it gives 47200 Physical Mastery at level cap.
    • Edit: Seeing the stat squish talk, this can be ignored.
Apologies, I need to remind myself to not just put values in; this is a level based value.
 

Orion

Lead Designer
Heavy Weapons Training
Heavy shields should certainly qualify as heavy weapons. Perhaps each rank could extend the duration of shield stuns by 0.5s (up to 2.5s)? That feels thematically appropriate and would certainly make some of my late level cap builds more interesting. ?

Battle-fury
Maybe instead of being a separate skill this functionality could be applied to Warrior's Heart. I think this would introduce some interesting decision-making for Keen Bladers in play and build.
There are reason to not apply shields to Heavy Weapons training...thought it is a possibility.

Warrior's heart was doing way too much. We wanted to pull functions off of it, not add to it.
 

Zipfile

Well-known member
Warrior's heart was doing way too much. We wanted to pull functions off of it, not add to it.

Replace the heal with this functionality then.
Didn't you, ironically, say that Guardians suffer from having too many skills a few months ago? :)
 

Rino90

Well-known member
Reduce Slashing Wound by one tick (2 seconds), but increase it's damage. It already has 125% uptime, so there's wasted time.
It seems to me that 12 seconds is the ideal duration for bleeding. There is a delay in the rotation associated with the animation, and I personally Haemorrhaging Wound falls off the target for 1 - 1.5 seconds. Yes, the rotation is technically 10 seconds, but a small margin would not be superfluous.
 

Bezmer

Active member
I haven't played my Guardian in a bit, but now that the Keen Blade can open its own block/parry chains, can someone give me the elevator speech on what the actual identity of the class is as a damage dealer? Because to me it seems that the tree just adds layers over layers of damage, but has little in terms of class-defining mechanics... and the "descriptor" essentially just says "uses damage to defeat foes" which isn't exactly informative. But perhaps I'm missing something?
 

Cap

Crafting Main
Warrior's heart was doing way too much. We wanted to pull functions off of it, not add to it.

Well with Fortitude traits being converted to passives and 50% heal reduction in Keen Blade, it seems to me enough have been removed to re-add it. It makes a nice counterpart to Stoic.
 

DoRonRon

Well-known member
I can't see mention of the threat reducing at tree adoption as mentioned elsewhere. Please not that old code that turned every threat skill into a de-threat one. Needs expanding upon if not to repeat that, for once, speedy U turn. This piece of commented out code is not the one you are looking for...
 
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