Guardian Refresh - The Defender of the Free

Orion

Lead Designer
Hello all, it has been a while. As we start the drive toward Update 37, we wanted to give you a new peek behind the curtain as we start the Guardian Refresh.

Some of you may have noticed, before the new forums, a flurry of activity in the Guardian sub-forum that spilled over at least in a memoriam-style to the new forums. Well, the time has come and work began, in earnest on the beefy Guardian and I wanted to pull the curtain back and give you an idea of how things are going.

First, the biggest change, The Fighter of Shadow is no longer going to be a tree into which you can specialize. Instead, The Fighter of Shadow tree becomes a utility tree with augments to enhance damage, threat, and survivability and a couple of nifty new tricks for the Guardian to use while protecting the Free People.

The second largest change is to The Keen Blade. The DPS line for the Guardian should move them up in parity and while still focusing on bleeds focuses more on creating consistent critical events for itself as it works toward outlasting opponents. This new focus on dealing that damage comes at sacrificing some of their survivability in the form of healing. It sounds harsh, but the incoming healing that a Keen Blade Guardian receives from their skills is reduced by 50% but, the damage output is much higher.

The changes to The Defender of the Free are minor, but nonetheless transformative. So let’s take a look at how this is all coming together; with a focus on The Defender of the Free.

The Defender of the Free​

Descriptor: Uses mitigations and defence to protect allies.

Role: The true Tanking build, using both AoE and single-target taunts. The primary focus in protection and survival.

Innate Bonus: Your shield skills have a 25% chance to apply a fortification effect that increases your mitigations by 1%. This effect may stack up to five times.

The Defender of the Free
Relentless Assault 5 Ranks
5%/tier for the skill Sting to apply a Finesse
Tireless Defender 3 Ranks

Guardian’s Ward reduces power costs by 10%/tier while active
Guardian’s Ward: Tactics 5 Ranks

Tactical Mitigation Bonus per tier
Guardian’s Defence
+10% Armour
+10 Critical Defence
+2.5% Block/Partial Block
-25% Shield Wear when Blocking
Guardian’s Pledge

Grants skill Guardian’s Pledge
Bellow 5 ranks

+20% Challenge and Fray the Edge Range and -5s
Adaptability

-1% Incoming Damage from all Sources
Shield-smash

Grants the skill Shield-smash
Reversal 5 ranks

-6s Turn the Tables Cooldown/rank

+4s Combat State Immunity
Smashing Stab

Earns the Skill Smashing-stab
Protection by the Shield
Grants the Skill Protection by the Shield
Follow Through 3 ranks

Requires Shield-smash

Increase targets 3,5,7
Shield Wall

Grants the Skill Shield Wall
Shield of Light 5 ranks

Ranks 1-4

.5%/incoming damage reduction to Protection by the Shield/rank

+3% perceived threat/rank

Rank 5 1 Max target on Shield Taunt

2% incoming damage red

15% Perceived threat
Challenge the Darkness

+3 Challenge targets
Shield Spikes 5 ranks

+2% Crit Chat with Shields

+240s Duration to Shield Spikes
High-spirited 5 ranks

+1 incoming healing mod/rank
Disorientation 5 ranks

5% chance/rank to apply a crit defence debuff of 5%
Strengthen the Bulwark

Fortification Enhancement
Warrior’s Fortitude 1 Rank

+1% Physical Mit

+1 Incoming Healing

+1% Block Chance

+1.25% Partial Block
Stoic 6 ranks

+20% chance to apply damage bubble/rank

Rank 6

Increases Bubble potency
Bolstering Blocks

Block restore morale
Juggernaut

Grants Skill: Juggernaut
Break Ranks

Shield-taunt cashes out Forts for 30% group damage buff for 15s
Shield the People

+25% that Shields apply Fortification Buffs


As you can see, the changes here make sense from the standpoint of what the Guardian is supposed to do for this role.

The removal of Defensive Expertise from the tree in the first tier of the specialization does not mean it is gone or forgotten, it is relocated into The Fighter of Shadow and combined with Skilled Deflection from The Keen Blade.

Adaptability no longer increases your ability to parry and block, instead it confers a flat damage reduction effect for specializing in The Defender of the Free.

Shield wall get ousted from the Trait set bonus slot into a trainable trait and is replaced by Protection by the Shield. Otherwise, Shield Wall is unchanged.

Protection by the Shield becomes an aura effect applied by the Guardian reducing incoming damage to raid members within 30m!

Shield of Light is a new addition, enhancing the effect of Protection by the Shield by adding more incoming damage reduction and increase in the amount of threat generated by shield skills.

Shield Spikes sees a modest uptick in Critical Chance and duration, doubling both qualities.

High-spirited moves from the first tier of The Fighter of Shadow and finds itself tucked neatly into a much deeper portion of The Defender of the Free.

Disorientation swaps out the ability to reduce Parry, Block, and Evade for a Critical Defence Reduction on the target.

Warrior’s Fortitude no longer modifies Warrior’s Heart, instead it becomes a passive standalone trait always in effect once it is chosen. More potent and valuable, we believe. Maybe too valuable, testing will hash that out.

Everything else remains much the same, except for some potential rewording or clean-up on presentation.

I hope to put up an outline of the changes coming to The Keen Blade and The Fighter of Shadow for tomorrow.

Feel free to response with any questions, comments, or concerns right here
 
Last edited:

Mojito

Well-known member
Hello all, it has been a while. As we start the drive toward Update 37, we wanted to give you a new peek behind the curtain as we start the Guardian Refresh.

Some of you may have noticed, before the new forums, a flurry of activity in the Guardian sub-forum that spilled over at least in a memoriam-style to the new forums. Well, the time has come and work began, in earnest on the beefy Guardian and I wanted to pull the curtain back and give you an idea of how things are going.

First, the biggest change, The Fighter of Shadow is no longer going to be a tree into which you can specialize. Instead, The Fighter of Shadow tree becomes a utility tree with augments to enhance damage, threat, and survivability and a couple of nifty new tricks for the Guardian to use while protecting the Free People.

The second largest change is to The Keen Blade. The DPS line for the Guardian should move them up in parity and while still focusing on bleeds focuses more on creating consistent critical events for itself as it works toward outlasting opponents. This new focus on dealing that damage comes at sacrificing some of their survivability in the form of healing. It sounds harsh, but the incoming healing that a Keen Blade Guardian will receive is reduced by 50% but, the damage output is much higher.

The changes to The Defender of the Free are minor, but nonetheless transformative. So let’s take a look at how this is all coming together; with a focus on The Defender of the Free.

The Defender of the Free​

Descriptor: Uses mitigations and defence to protect allies.

Role: The true Tanking build, using both AoE and single-target taunts. The primary focus in protection and survival.

Innate Bonus: Your shield skills have a 25% chance to apply a fortification effect that increases your mitigations by 1%. This effect may stack up to five times.

The Defender of the Free
Relentless Assault 5 Ranks
5%/tier for the skill Sting to apply a Finesse
Tireless Defender 3 Ranks

Guardian’s Ward reduces power costs by 10%/tier while active
Guardian’s Ward: Tactics 5 Ranks

Tactical Mitigation Bonus per tier
Guardian’s Defence
+10% Armour
+10 Critical Defence
+2.5% Block/Partial Block
-25% Shield Wear when Blocking
Guardian’s Pledge

Grants skill Guardian’s Pledge
Bellow 5 ranks

+20% Challenge and Fray the Edge Range and -5s
Adaptability

-1% Incoming Damage from all Sources
Shield-smash

Grants the skill Shield-smash
Reversal 5 ranks

-6s Turn the Tables Cooldown/rank

+4s Combat State Immunity
Smashing Stab

Earns the Skill Smashing-stab
Protection by the Shield
Grants the Skill Protection by the Shield
Follow Through 3 ranks

Requires Shield-smash

Increase targets 3,5,7
Shield Wall

Grants the Skill Shield Wall
Shield of Light 5 ranks

Ranks 1-4

.5%/incoming damage reduction to Protection by the Shield/rank

+3% perceived threat/rank

Rank 5 1 Max target on Shield Taunt

2% incoming damage red

15% Perceived threat
Challenge the Darkness

+3 Challenge targets
Shield Spikes 5 ranks

+2% Crit Chat with Shields

+240s Duration to Shield Spikes
High-spirited 5 ranks

+1 incoming healing mod/rank
Disorientation 5 ranks

5% chance/rank to apply a crit defence debuff of 5%
Strengthen the Bulwark

Fortification Enhancement
Warrior’s Fortitude 1 Rank

+1% Physical Mit

+1 Incoming Healing

+1% Block Chance

+1.25% Partial Block
Stoic 6 ranks

+20% chance to apply damage bubble/rank

Rank 6

Increases Bubble potency
Bolstering Blocks

Block restore morale
Juggernaut

Grants Skill: Juggernaut
Break Ranks

Shield-taunt cashes out Forts for 30% group damage buff for 15s
Shield the People

+25% that Shields apply Fortification Buffs


As you can see, the changes here make sense from the standpoint of what the Guardian is supposed to do for this role.

The removal of Defensive Expertise from the tree in the first tier of the specialization does not mean it is gone or forgotten, it is relocated into The Fighter of Shadow and combined with Skilled Deflection from The Keen Blade.

Adaptability no longer increases your ability to parry and block, instead it confers a flat damage reduction effect for specializing in The Defender of the Free.

Shield wall get ousted from the Trait set bonus slot into a trainable trait and is replaced by Protection by the Shield. Otherwise, Shield Wall is unchanged.

Protection by the Shield becomes an aura effect applied by the Guardian reducing incoming damage to raid members within 30m!

Shield of Light is a new addition, enhancing the effect of Protection by the Shield by adding more incoming damage reduction and increase in the amount of threat generated by shield skills.

Shield Spikes sees a modest uptick in Critical Chance and duration, doubling both qualities.

High-spirited moves from the first tier of The Fighter of Shadow and finds itself tucked neatly into a much deeper portion of The Defender of the Free.

Disorientation swaps out the ability to reduce Parry, Block, and Evade for a Critical Defence Reduction on the target.

Warrior’s Fortitude no longer modifies Warrior’s Heart, instead it becomes a passive standalone trait always in effect once it is chosen. More potent and valuable, we believe. Maybe too valuable, testing will hash that out.

Everything else remains much the same, except for some potential rewording or clean-up on presentation.

I hope to put up an outline of the changes coming to The Keen Blade and The Fighter of Shadow for tomorrow.

Feel free to response with any questions, comments, or concerns right here
Hi Orion,

Will we see any morale buff in The Defender of the Free line? And What is happening w/ Juggernaut? Does it remain unchanged ?
 

Zipfile

Well-known member
Please elaborate on:

  • Adaptability:
    • Does it still have 3 tiers?
    • Changes to the tracery?
    • Timed buff/does it have a duration?
    • Current one is removed by using Parry or Block response. Will the current version also get removed if we take the corresponding damage type?
  • Protection By The Shield:
    • What does it do?
    • Toggle type? Duration? Set-buff?
    • Tracery options?
  • Shield-wall
    • Does it still get removed if Guardian gets hard CC'd? (Stuns, Daze, Fear, Immobilize)
  • Shield of Light
    • We need concrete base numbers for Shield-taunt. What's the base threat generation it does? Currently, it's a toss up and nobody really knows for certain...
  • Remove Disorientation. It's horrible. Why do you keep it?
    • Fairly certain this was discussed before and you had ideas on changing it into something...less heretical.

Everything else, splendid. Great. Breath taking. Stunning. Smashing. Nice.


I'll keep comments on Keen Blade and Fighter of Shadow for their respective threads.
 

Drarin

Eternal Curmudgeon
A few thoughts:
  • With the change to Relentless Assault to provide a Finesse (I'm guessing buff?), I'm not sure why this needs to be a "% chance to" skill. Why not just add the Finesse buff to Sting, and each rank increases its value?
  • For Shield Spikes, is that 2%/240s per rank?
Honestly, I still don't see a world where I trait Disorientation, Tireless Defender, Shield-Wall, or Shield Spikes (except in a pre-fight line), unless I have some spare trait points lying around.
 

Orion

Lead Designer
Please elaborate on:

  • Adaptability:
    • Does it still have 3 tiers?
    • Changes to the tracery?
    • Timed buff/does it have a duration?
    • Current one is removed by using Parry or Block response. Will the current version also get removed if we take the corresponding damage type?
  • Protection By The Shield:
    • What does it do?
    • Toggle type? Duration? Set-buff?
    • Tracery options?
  • Shield-wall
    • Does it still get removed if Guardian gets hard CC'd? (Stuns, Daze, Fear, Immobilize)
  • Shield of Light
    • We need concrete base numbers for Shield-taunt. What's the base threat generation it does? Currently, it's a toss up and nobody really knows for certain...
  • Remove Disorientation. It's horrible. Why do you keep it?
    • Fairly certain this was discussed before and you had ideas on changing it into something...less heretical.

Everything else, splendid. Great. Breath taking. Stunning. Smashing. Nice.


I'll keep comments on Keen Blade and Fighter of Shadow for their respective threads.
Adaptability is now a Set Bonus Trait, no tiers. Tracery will need to be adjusted.
Protection by the shield reduced incoming damage by 3%. It is a toggle ability.
Shield-wall functions identically to the way it does now.
Shield of Light, increases taunt from all shield skills, not just Shield-taunt. The top tier increases Sield-taunt targets by 1.
Disorientation is better with a significant as a % debuff for crit rating.
 

Orion

Lead Designer
A few thoughts:
  • With the change to Relentless Assault to provide a Finesse (I'm guessing buff?), I'm not sure why this needs to be a "% chance to" skill. Why not just add the Finesse buff to Sting, and each rank increases its value?
  • For Shield Spikes, is that 2%/240s per rank?
Honestly, I still don't see a world where I trait Disorientation, Tireless Defender, Shield-Wall, or Shield Spikes (except in a pre-fight line), unless I have some spare trait points lying around.
There is no change at all to Relentless Assault as it stands.
And Shield Spikes is 2% and 240s per rank, so 10% and 1200s at the top end.
 

eros216

Well-known member
I realize that this pertains to more classes than just guardians, but might this be a good time to look at shields and shields use in
general? For a while now, I've found that part of game play to be somewhat lackluster. Not sure this would work, but perhaps in blue
line, shields would act more defensively while in red they might apply more offensively? Curious about other takes and ideas on this.
 

Olebenny

Shield Bearer
Solid all around, thank you for the update good sir.

What is the finesse amount granted from sting? Is it a raw amount or a %? I would also second the opinion that it just granting finesse straight up and that amount increasing each tier would be nice. We've been tortured with sting have a % chance to proc a parry response for far too long x.x

Tireless defender I also will still not trait but I don't think it needs to be rehauled, its aint bad just simply not needed particularly in group content. I'm fine spending my point into yellow line

Disorientation is bad though I believe. If the stats were swapped it would be a huge improvement, instead of improving the chance to reduce b/p/e by 5%, keep the proc chance at 25% and improve how much b/p/e is reduced per tier. I still wouldn't trait it most likely, but that I think would move it out of the bad tier and more into the simply not needed tier.

Nice work, thank you for not touching Juggernaut! I love that skill so much
 

Zipfile

Well-known member
Disorientation is bad though I believe. If the stats were swapped it would be a huge improvement, instead of improving the chance to reduce b/p/e by 5%, keep the proc chance at 25% and improve how much b/p/e is reduced per tier. I still wouldn't trait it most likely, but that I think would move it out of the bad tier and more into the simply not needed tier.

Doesn't do that anymore, read it again.

5% chance pet tier to reduce Critical Defence by 5%.

5/10/15/20/25% chance.

Still doesn't seem THAT good, compared to everything else the class has...but we'll see how Yellow line points cost ends up.
 

Olebenny

Shield Bearer
Doesn't do that anymore, read it again.

5% chance pet tier to reduce Critical Defence by 5%.

5/10/15/20/25% chance.

Still doesn't seem THAT good, compared to everything else the class has...but we'll see how Yellow line points cost ends up.
Oh my bad, thanks for catching that, I just focused on the ranking up. Same point remains, I think a 25% proc followed by increasing amount reduced per tier would be better. Then even 1 value point grants you a more reliable bonus but less potent bonus
 

Orion

Lead Designer
I realize that this pertains to more classes than just guardians, but might this be a good time to look at shields and shields use in
general? For a while now, I've found that part of game play to be somewhat lackluster. Not sure this would work, but perhaps in blue
line, shields would act more defensively while in red they might apply more offensively? Curious about other takes and ideas on this.
Eros, hold that thought until tomorrow.
 

Orion

Lead Designer
What is the finesse amount granted from sting? Is it a raw amount or a %? I would also second the opinion that it just granting finesse straight up and that amount increasing each tier would be nice. We've been tortured with sting have a % chance to proc a parry response for far too long x.x

Tireless defender I also will still not trait but I don't think it needs to be rehauled, its aint bad just simply not needed particularly in group content. I'm fine spending my point into yellow line

Disorientation is bad though I believe. If the stats were swapped it would be a huge improvement, instead of improving the chance to reduce b/p/e by 5%, keep the proc chance at 25% and improve how much b/p/e is reduced per tier. I still wouldn't trait it most likely, but that I think would move it out of the bad tier and more into the simply not needed tier.

Nice work, thank you for not touching Juggernaut! I love that skill so much
Finesse value remains unchanged, I am not at my desk at the moment, but I know that it is level based.

You don't need permission to make your own decisions. What you trait is your perogative. *snicker*

Disorientation no longer affects B/P/E it is now a flat % reduction against Critical Defence with the ranks increasing the proc change.
 

Orion

Lead Designer
Oh my bad, thanks for catching that, I just focused on the ranking up. Same point remains, I think a 25% proc followed by increasing amount reduced per tier would be better. Then even 1 value point grants you a more reliable bonus but less potent bonus
Are you advocating a rank 1 25% chance to reduce critical defence by 1% moving all the way to 25% to reduce crit defence by 5%?
 

Olebenny

Shield Bearer
Finesse value remains unchanged, I am not at my desk at the moment, but I know that it is level based.

You don't need permission to make your own decisions. What you trait is your perogative. *snicker*

Disorientation no longer affects B/P/E it is now a flat % reduction against Critical Defence with the ranks increasing the proc change.
Bruh I forgot it had a finesse stat already on it. My apologies I've been out for 2 years until just a couple weeks ago. Its 75k

And fo sho on the traiting stuff, I was just tossing my support to the other gentleman that said he wouldn't trait something like Disorientation
Honestly, I still don't see a world where I trait Disorientation, Tireless Defender, Shield-Wall, or Shield Spikes (except in a pre-fight line), unless I have some spare trait points lying around.

Are you advocating a rank 1 25% chance to reduce critical defence by 1% moving all the way to 25% to reduce crit defence by 5%?
Yes at a core level I would prefer the 25% chance to proc X-increasing-per-tier instead of a 5%-increasing-per-tier chance to proc X

What numbers would be enticing to consider traiting it in the first place... idk. Just on a concept level I like the proc% being set and the effect increasing in potency per tier. To elaborate further, I love the traits that have a bigger increase on the 5th tier. So to use this as an example
Tier 1- 1%
Tier 2- 2%
Tier 3- 3%
Tier 4- 4%
Tier 5- 8%
 

Break

Member
The second largest change is to The Keen Blade. The DPS line for the Guardian should move them up in parity and while still focusing on bleeds focuses more on creating consistent critical events for itself as it works toward outlasting opponents. This new focus on dealing that damage comes at sacrificing some of their survivability in the form of healing. It sounds harsh, but the incoming healing that a Keen Blade Guardian will receive is reduced by 50% but, the damage output is much higher.
uhhh, this is a death sentence? Go to any group content healer and tell them your new dps class now requires 2x as much healing as any other class, they will not want to take this class anywhere.
I've said before, and will say again that if you want to reduce the power of CAB and WH for red line, the key is to target the traceries! The warriors heart tracery literally takes it from 30% hp heal to over 120%! the tracery makes it 4x as strong! Pull some of that power out of the tracery (make it like +20% to the heal, 10% to max morale?) and give the power you took from it to the first 5 points of stoic (currently feels to expensive for what it is, and noone like sthe % chance on the first 5 ranks anyway). This will make it basically not feasible for red guardians to get the powerful WH heal, and also decentivise them from taking the warriors heart tracery (they really shouldnt be taking it anyway thematically, they should be opting for dps traceries instead)

In terms of the blue stuff you posted in the tree, looks good, but I'm still in the change juggernaut to something more well rounded camp. I know its a contentious topic, but when Umbar raid comes out and has some boss like shelob/rukhor that plows the tank with un-bpeable damage, and Guardian is then behind all the other tanks in terms of defensive CDs, the "juggernaut is finnnneeee" camp is gonna be nowhere to be found. ?
 

Orion

Lead Designer
uhhh, this is a death sentence? Go to any group content healer and tell them your new dps class now requires 2x as much healing as any other class, they will not want to take this class anywhere.
I've said before, and will say again that if you want to reduce the power of CAB and WH for red line, the key is to target the traceries! The warriors heart tracery literally takes it from 30% hp heal to over 120%! the tracery makes it 4x as strong! Pull some of that power out of the tracery (make it like +20% to the heal, 10% to max morale?) and give the power you took from it to the first 5 points of stoic (currently feels to expensive for what it is, and noone like sthe % chance on the first 5 ranks anyway). This will make it basically not feasible for red guardians to get the powerful WH heal, and also decentivise them from taking the warriors heart tracery (they really shouldnt be taking it anyway thematically, they should be opting for dps traceries instead)

In terms of the blue stuff you posted in the tree, looks good, but I'm still in the change juggernaut to something more well rounded camp. I know its a contentious topic, but when Umbar raid comes out and has some boss like shelob/rukhor that plows the tank with un-bpeable damage, and Guardian is then behind all the other tanks in terms of defensive CDs, the "juggernaut is finnnneeee" camp is gonna be nowhere to be found. ?
Wait until tomorrow, when The Keen Blade gets to shine.
 

gildhur

Turbine Defense Force alumni
First, the biggest change, The Fighter of Shadow is no longer going to be a tree into which you can specialize. Instead, The Fighter of Shadow tree becomes a utility tree with augments to enhance damage, threat, and survivability and a couple of nifty new tricks for the Guardian to use while protecting the Free People.
Thanks I hate it. ?

But I'll wait and see what the details are.
 

Cap

Crafting Main
For the benefit of the visually-inclined

Screen_Shot_2023-06-15_at_7.12.58_PM.png
 

Zipfile

Well-known member
Litany of Defiance

Currently, it's a very high risk button to press. Under specific scenarios, it's good. However, that's very rare unless combined with Warriors Heart/other class CDs.
However, it's biggest issue is that during the 15s duration, you cannot regain Fortification stacks, which is fine cause otherwise Guardian gets 90%+ mitigations. But this means that after its over, you're kinda at the mercy of RNG to rebuild Fortifications as soon as possible.
Changing this to have you be able to gain Fortification stacks, but draw no benefit from them during the "Cannot be Fortified" effect.

Shield-spikes

Nobody, in their right mind, would trait this on an active trait line. It seems to solely exist for trait swapping purposes, which is horrible to play with, primarily from the view of:

Guardian swaps to the "Charge/Spikes/WH line".
Guardian uses Shield-spikes.
Guardian is now waiting for 30 seconds to swap back.
Guardian uses Charge/WH just before a fight.
Guardian swaps back.
Guardian gets Shield-spikes, things are good.
Guardian dies due to X from Y.
Guardian gets a rez.
Guardian now doesn't have Spikes/WH Fortitude, feeling ashamed and probably wants to sulk in a corner for the rest of the attempt.

This is just excluding the fact that you also need to get the spikes yourself, hogging an inventory slot.
Do we not have enough consumables in the game already? Hell, even a majority of which are utterly useless.
Remove the consumable, turn the trait into a proper passive that gives Shield-skills a passive % critical chance, you'll please everyone.
 
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