Filling in the World of Middle-earth

[Scenario_SSG]

Ettenmoors is and will likely always be its own self contained bubble in the game world. Opening up other means to access it could prove to be detrimental to the balance of the area and it is not something we would consider without a lot of thought, and more importantly, a very specific and necessary intention.

 

[Gnagerwine]

I think ideally the the Ettenmoors PVMP area should be its own terrain island, so the Ettenmoors in the Eriador landmass can be a PVE zone connected to the open world. But that doesn't sound very practical to do at this point.

 

[Harvain]

I think ideally the the Ettenmoors PVMP area should be its own terrain island, so the Ettenmoors in the Eriador landmass can be a PVE zone connected to the open world. But that doesn't sound very practical to do at this point.

The bigger question to myself has always been this: What would the Ettenmoors even have for a theme so it could be PvE Content?

Going based on how Nearby Regions will affect what Levels a Region's Content will be in LOTRO, the Ettenmoors having say access from the Trollshaws + Misty Mountains would have them bordering Level 35 to 40 & Level 40 to 45 respectively.

• This would mean said Region would have to be right near said Levels, with possibly Mount Gram being a Level 45-50+ Expansion Region, especially if it had access to Angmar.
• Possibly meaning the Ettenmoors would be a roughly Level 35 to 45 PvE Content Region.

We'd need to have Mount Gram being added to LOTRO with it being the "Western most part of the Ettenmoors" and a "Goblin-Troll Invasion" type of threat to say Rivendell + Eriador for there to be a reason for the Ettenmoors to have a PvE Version.

• Could throw in some other elements like Remnants of Angmar, Dourhands, Orcs, etc. from nearby Regions from the Legacy of Angmar section (Level 1 to 50) of LOTRO where we encounter "Old Foes" from those we've defeated in the North Downs, Angmar, Trollshaws, and Misty Mountains.

Really the Ettenmoors for a PvE Version sounds like it would play out like the War of Three Peaks again just on a smaller scale, where it's a Region where a decent conflict or threat is brewing but the "real" threat lies beyond it and the Players have to deal with the smaller threat before confronting the bigger one.

• Which would mean having Mount Gram, going into the Mountain, and rooting out the Servants of the Enemy there.
• It would draw Fate of Gundabad/Mount Gundabad comparisons and some Players would not shed a tear if they never saw Content focused on being in a Mountain ever again in LOTRO.

 

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

Ettenmoors is and will likely always be its own self contained bubble in the game world. Opening up other means to access it could prove to be detrimental to the balance of the area and it is not something we would consider without a lot of thought, and more importantly, a very specific and necessary intention.

In my view, that necessary intention is creating a full open world which includes Rhudaur, by moving the Ettenmoors to its own region - but I know that option has been decided against. This would keep it self contained, but allow a PvE version of the zone to exist too.

 

[Feral_Yoda]

Eh I could see an interior of Mt. Gram (entered from the north to avoid crossover with the Moors) being more a Goblin-Town type deal than a Gundabad remix. I don't think it was ever a dwarven colony.

It could, i suppose, have been a source of experiments by the Witch King... attempting to mimic Sauron's ring creation with Mt. Doom (Gram seems to be volcanic based on the surroundings but i'm not sure how accurate that is), but on a much smaller scale. But i never got the idea that it was as large or terrible a place as Gundabad or the rest of Angmar. Just a place Goblins were willing to live since nobody else wanted to.

 

[Harvain]

Eh I could see an interior of Mt. Gram (entered from the north to avoid crossover with the Moors) being more a Goblin-Town type deal than a Gundabad remix. I don't think it was ever a dwarven colony.

It could, i suppose, have been a source of experiments by the Witch King... attempting to mimic Sauron's ring creation with Mt. Doom (Gram seems to be volcanic based on the surroundings but i'm not sure how accurate that is), but on a much smaller scale. But i never got the idea that it was as large or terrible a place as Gundabad or the rest of Angmar. Just a place Goblins were willing to live since nobody else wanted to.

Mount Gram's Lore is extremely limited. It's main influence being the Location where the Goblins that attacked the Shire & were defeated by Bullroarer Took came from and in other Lore where the remnant of said Goblins retreated back to and remain into + after the War of the Ring.

Mount Gram's Location for example to this very day is not confirmed in any form. The "usual" Location is that Mount Gram is the Western-most Mountain in the line of Mountains that jut out west from the Misty Mountains near to the Ettenmoors or is just a "Mountain of the Misty Mountains".

• X amount of Third Age Maps will show off Mount Gram as such where it's located right above where the "Ettenmoors" is on the map.

The origin of the Misty Mountains, which if we include Mount Gram along with such, is from the Valar Melkor as he created various Mountains to hinder the Valar Orome as he would hunt down Melkor's earliest fell creatures.

 

[lolplaylotro]

We'd need to have Mount Gram being added to LOTRO with it being the "Western most part of the Ettenmoors" and a "Goblin-Troll Invasion" type of threat to say Rivendell + Eriador for there to be a reason for the Ettenmoors to have a PvE Version.

Wouldn't a Mount Gram be to the East of Moors. That's where the open space is located. Currently LOTRO has a Moors that only extends north to the foot of Mount Gram. Then there's empty space to the East, where the recent Iron Pass changes were noted. There's also a tiny empty space to the west of Moors, between Moors and Evendim.

Mount Gram's Lore is extremely limited.

I get the impression this is actually favorable for development. LOTRO rewrites Angmar-lore conveniently (to great effect). So rewriting Mt. Gram's lore sounds natural for LOTRO.

 

[Harvain]

Wouldn't a Mount Gram be to the East of Moors. That's where the open space is located. Currently LOTRO has a Moors that only extends north to the foot of Mount Gram. Then there's empty space to the East, where the recent Iron Pass changes were noted. There's also a tiny empty space to the west of Moors, between Moors and Evendim.

I get the impression this is actually favorable for development. LOTRO rewrites Angmar-lore conveniently (to great effect). So rewriting Mt. Gram's lore sounds natural for LOTRO.

If one goes and looks at X amount of Third Age Middle-earth Maps for where the Ettenmoors is located, there almost always is a Mountain that is far larger & prominent to the Northwest, right almost above the E in Ettenmoors. In some Maps said Mountain is then labeled with "Mount Gram". That's what I've been discussing.

This also would fit where Mount Gram is for the Ettenmoors being in the "North-West" corner of said Map with the "Steps of Gram".

But as we've seen there isn't any planned or upcoming additional Region to provide another access point to the Ettenmoors.

---

This Map from "Atlas of Middle-earth" for example shows off what I mean:

 

[lolplaylotro]

Oh I see. You're using a different map. Note the lore is ambiguous about the location of Mt. Gram. So we should all expect some differences depending on the map we use. LOTRO's map has Moors extend north to the foot of Mt.Gram. Then there's a tiny empty spot west of moors, between moors and evendim North Downs. On the east there's the big empty mountain range.

Now, of course we know nothing is set in stone. With that said I will link another fan created map of LOTRO for clarity: here the space to the west of Moors is Gram Ridges. Moors extends North to Gramsfoot, the foot of Mount Gram (at least that's how it translates). To the east we have a big block of unused mountain range. It's also the part I mentioned was in the same area as the recent Iron Pass changes.

Pure speculation that the recent changes lead to Mt. Gram Maybe it's leading to Ettendale north of Trollshaws. That would be an even bigger mystery.

 

[Harvain]

Oh I see. You're using a different map.

Yeah, plenty of Maps don't show Mount Gram at all. Then it's going off the very limited Lore + various People who feel that it's either the Ettenmoors or just a "Mountain of the Misty Mountains".

Mostly discussing such as that's how I'd try to convince the SSG LOTRO Team to do an "Ettenmoors Player versus Environment" Region by having Mount Gram play the "key role" for what's being built towards. Could be the way to connect:

• The North Downs to the East.
• Angmar for another Southern route.
• Trollshaws for another path to the North.
• Misty Mountains (Region) for it's West/North-West.

Pending how an "Ettenmoors + Mount Gram" Regions were handled could help inter-connect the North East part of Eriador in LOTRO even more.

Either way we aren't likely to see Mount Gram anytime soon if ever.

 

[lolplaylotro]

Not necessarily. Those Iron Pass changes are definitely in the same vicinity. All the devs have said is they won't update Moors without a really good reason, and would take rebalancing. So a change to Moors to add more of Mt.Gram isn't going to happen without considerable planning and redevelopment.

That said we could still see a landscape variant. A version of Mt.Gram in LOTRO works with how Angmar is different in LOTRO. We'll have to wait and see I guess. On Friday maybe we'll hear more about the PvMP thing: "something unexpected" sounds big.

The real question is would people prefer such a Mt.Gram over developing Ettendale. I was under the impression ettendale is oriented towards housing.

 

[Phantion]

Yeah, plenty of Maps don't show Mount Gram at all. Then it's going off the very limited Lore + various People who feel that it's either the Ettenmoors or just a "Mountain of the Misty Mountains".

Mostly discussing such as that's how I'd try to convince the SSG LOTRO Team to do an "Ettenmoors Player versus Environment" Region by having Mount Gram play the "key role" for what's being built towards. Could be the way to connect:

• The North Downs to the East.
• Angmar for another Southern route.
• Trollshaws for another path to the North.
• Misty Mountains (Region) for it's West/North-West.

Pending how an "Ettenmoors + Mount Gram" Regions were handled could help inter-connect the North East part of Eriador in LOTRO even more.

Either way we aren't likely to see Mount Gram anytime soon if ever.

Actually, we are. Mt. Gram happens to be in the game. It's that tall, prominent mountain immediately northwest of the Creep camp in the Moors. It's called "Gramsfoot" for a reason; it's a shortened way of saying, "The Foot of Mt. Gram." It's not - accessible - for gameplay, but visually speaking, it's there. It's true that it's unspecified in the lore as far as its location goes. But LOTRO already staked its claim / version of it.

Further, if you really climb around that troll arena in southeast Angmar and look in the direction of the Moors, you can see that same tall, prominent mountain jutting upward precisely where it is behind the Gramsfoot camp in the Moors.

Mystery solved. Now, will we only be able to see it from a distance and go nowhere near it due to its proximity to the Moors? That's the question.

Cheers!

 

[Harvain]

Actually, we are. Mt. Gram happens to be in the game. It's that tall, prominent mountain immediately northwest of the Creep camp in the Moors. It's called "Gramsfoot" for a reason; it's a shortened way of saying, "The Foot of Mt. Gram." It's not - accessible - for gameplay, but visually speaking, it's there. It's true that it's unspecified in the lore as far as its location goes. But LOTRO already staked its claim / version of it.

Further, if you really climb around that troll arena in southeast Angmar and look in the direction of the Moors, you can see that same tall, prominent mountain jutting upward precisely where it is behind the Gramsfoot camp in the Moors.

Mystery solved. Now, will we only be able to see it from a distance and go nowhere near it due to its proximity to the Moors? That's the question.

Cheers!

Yeah that's more what I meant, Mount Gram has had it's location for LOTRO all these Years with how the PvMP Ettenmoors is setup.

It would be a question of if we'd see Mount Gram itself being added in which that's how I'd go about doing an Ettenmoors PvE-Version. Tie in Ettenmoors, Mount Gram (Above + Inside to make 2 different Mount Gram Regions akin to Gundabad), and maybe an extra Region.

Only thing is though it just on paper would seem like a Fate of Gundabad 2.0 and LOTRO's had a LOT of Mountain both On & Inside + Near-Mountain Content especially since the SSG LOTRO Team took over. While Mountains are a key part of Middle-earth, especially in the main area most people know, we've seen a lot of the Mordor Mountains, Ered Mithrin (Grey Mountains), White Mountains, and Misty Mountains ever since August 2017.

Rather see Content focusing on Non-Mountain Regions, or Mountains being a "small theme" of any Region rather than Hilly or Mountainous focused Content for a while. Then after X amount of Years, swing back round and then do Mountain themed Content for a while.

 

[Hierok]

Only thing is though it just on paper would seem like a Fate of Gundabad 2.0 and LOTRO's had a LOT of Mountain both On & Inside + Near-Mountain Content especially since the SSG LOTRO Team took over. While Mountains are a key part of Middle-earth, especially in the main area most people know, we've seen a lot of the Mordor Mountains, Ered Mithrin (Grey Mountains), White Mountains, and Misty Mountains ever since August 2017.

Rather see Content focusing on Non-Mountain Regions, or Mountains being a "small theme" of any Region rather than Hilly or Mountainous focused Content for a while. Then after X amount of Years, swing back round and then do Mountain themed Content for a while.

I just hope to see the mountains north of the Lone-lands lowered that the border isn't that obvious. The same with the North Downs, Angmar and Trollshaws.

 

[lolplaylotro]

So it's still a mystery. At this point those Iron Pass changes must be for a next expansion. The next quest pack is in Umbar. Maybe they're going to do another release like Before the Shadow in the Angmar area.

 

[Harvain]

So it's still a mystery. At this point those Iron Pass changes must be for a next expansion. The next quest pack is in Umbar. Maybe they're going to do another release like Before the Shadow in the Angmar area.

Cynical Response: SSG LOTRO Team are getting wiser & putting things into the Game to distract the people always looking for "what's happening next".

 

[lolplaylotro]

SSG LOTRO Team are getting wiser & putting things into the Game to distract the people

Well it does appear that way. I'm okay with it.

Back to the topic of pvmp. Changing moors may be off the table but we could still have a new pvmp experience. What if Mt. Gram gets added north of Gramsfoot. A new area north-east of Gramsfoot extends east and north-east into the unclaimed mountain space. A version of the Mount Gram lore based on LOTRO's Angmar likely to be included. Landscape content from East eventually leading to an open world Mount Gram.

Could landscape content mix with pvmp in an open world style like other mmo Could players have to pass through a moors sized area to pass through

 

[Harvain]

Could landscape content mix with pvmp in an open world style like other mmo Could players have to pass through a moors sized area to pass through

No, it couldn't.

Players, and this is a sizeable amount, would not want any Region they could go into involving any form of PvP at all even if they were 100% safe from it. Any Region is desired where the Player's ability to go within is 100% of or as close to 100% available as possible to explore & doing things in.

• Why as seen with the upcoming Hobby involving Birds won't have any in the Ettenmoors PvMP Region.

That is why we've had this convo over the years from X amount of Players expressing they want to see a PvE Version of the Ettenmoors. They want said Region included into LOTRO, to travel there naturally, and be able to explore & do things as is encountered throughout the rest of the Game.

 

[Feral_Yoda]

So it's still a mystery. At this point those Iron Pass changes must be for a next expansion. The next quest pack is in Umbar. Maybe they're going to do another release like Before the Shadow in the Angmar area.

Considering how long the Wild Wood was in "secret" development, it could be many more updates until we find out whats in the valley and passes of East Angmar/Mount Gram.

I remember doing some ore mining around Starsmore and finding a level 50 node just out of reach at least 2 years before the wild wood announcement. And then later seeing the slow and continuous landscape changes along the Brandywine, with the outpost and the bridge over the waterfall, a tower suddenly being visible from Bree, and then Hornets and Hourns showing up on top of the hill.

In short, it may be awhile till we find out more.

 

[lolplaylotro]

In short, it may be awhile till we find out more.

Thinking about expansion releases in recent history: a BtS style expansion in Angmar area cannot be the next expansion. That would mean there's two expansion back-to-back without a level cap increase. Maybe this is possible but I think the changes may boil down to losing the original asset files for Iron Pass. If tools got upgraded it might be that assets need to be upgraded as well to continue working with new versions. These changes may simply be due to upgrading the asset file.

Or, it could just be a distraction