Crafting Update: Now and into Corsairs of Umbar

Fjorgynr

Stout-axe dreaming of trees
Can you guys at least balance the existing tiers and make do with what you already have? So that at least the journey to the max tier would be a bit easier, or something to make it more bearable at some tiers. I, and probably many others, don't want to slog through the "bad stuff" to get to the "good stuff". That excuse is just and excuse and doesn't make the 10+ hour staring contest with a progress bar any better.
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It would be good to know if there is any way the amount of resources required in some of the tiers could be reduced.

If not would it be possible to increase the number of nodes. Maybe add Ore and wood to loot tables, just as we get jewels and scholar items. Or make crafting missions or reduce the requirements to make use of those crafting instances already in existence.
 

Tessandra

Member
Good morning.

This post is one of those posts that, as a designer, you dread making.

There are two announcements around crafting this morning.

First and least importantly, we are deactivating the forester event a few days early due to some exploits that evaded our detection and the bad actors taking advantage of those exploits. We're closing the exploits for the next round of the event.

Second and more important, we have some unwanted news about Umbar crafting. As I have stated, we intended to uncouple and grant Umbar recipes at the outset of the expansion, making the Umbar crafting tier independent from all previous craft tiers. While diligently working to bring this to fruition behind the scenes, we've hit an unfortunate wall of ancient code that firmly stated, "You shall not pass!"

It is unfortunate and unavoidable we cannot separate the tiers in this manner. Crafters must complete the previous proficiency tier to access the Umbar craft tier. This revelation is a big disappointment for me and the capper on a not-so-great crafting weekend.
Post questions in this thread, and I will answer them soon.
That's unfortunate. If they cannot be decoupled, could it be considered to include a token that grants proficiency in prior tiers in valar packages, up to the level boosted to? Might not be all the cases of catching up pain, but it would be a lot of them.
 

Imtahlion

Active member
Guten Morgen.

Dieser Beitrag ist einer dieser Beiträge, vor deren Erstellung Sie als Designer Angst haben.

Heute Morgen gibt es zwei Ankündigungen rund ums Basteln.

Erstens und am wenigsten wichtig ist, dass wir das Forester-Event einige Tage früher deaktivieren, da einige Exploits unserer Entdeckung entgangen sind und schlechte Akteure diese Exploits ausgenutzt haben. Wir schließen die Exploits für die nächste Runde des Events.

Zweitens und noch wichtiger: Wir haben einige unerwünschte Neuigkeiten über das Umbar-Handwerk. Wie ich bereits sagte, wollten wir zu Beginn der Erweiterung Umbar-Rezepte entkoppeln und gewähren, um die Umbar-Handwerksstufe von allen vorherigen Handwerksstufen unabhängig zu machen. Während wir hinter den Kulissen fleißig daran arbeiteten, dies zu verwirklichen, stießen wir auf eine unglückliche Wand aus altem Code, der unmissverständlich besagte: „Du wirst nicht bestehen!“

Es ist bedauerlich und unvermeidlich, dass wir die Ebenen nicht auf diese Weise trennen können. Handwerker müssen die vorherige Fähigkeitsstufe abschließen, um auf die Umbar-Handwerksstufe zugreifen zu können. Diese Offenbarung ist eine große Enttäuschung für mich und den Verschließer an einem nicht so tollen Bastelwochenende.
Stellen Sie Fragen in diesem Thread und ich werde sie bald beantworten.
Dann setzt doch das Material was mann braucht einfach runter auf 10 EP das sollte doch möglich sein für jede Stufe.
 

Neinda

Well-known member
@Orion. Thank you for the update and being honest and open with the status of Umbar crafting.

Please consider changing the old recipes to be more easily obtained in each area. Maybe even consider adding the special crafting items for old levels to the skirmish camp vendors like in year past.
 

Hravanis

Well-known member
Thanks for the clear update. Honestly I'm more interested in the complex machinations of working with the code of an ancient game than disappointed by the limits, though must be frustrating when things just wont work!
 

Lorianna

Well-known member
Good morning.

This post is one of those posts that, as a designer, you dread making.

There are two announcements around crafting this morning.

First and least importantly, we are deactivating the forester event a few days early due to some exploits that evaded our detection and the bad actors taking advantage of those exploits. We're closing the exploits for the next round of the event.

Second and more important, we have some unwanted news about Umbar crafting. As I have stated, we intended to uncouple and grant Umbar recipes at the outset of the expansion, making the Umbar crafting tier independent from all previous craft tiers. While diligently working to bring this to fruition behind the scenes, we've hit an unfortunate wall of ancient code that firmly stated, "You shall not pass!"

It is unfortunate and unavoidable we cannot separate the tiers in this manner. Crafters must complete the previous proficiency tier to access the Umbar craft tier. This revelation is a big disappointment for me and the capper on a not-so-great crafting weekend.
Post questions in this thread, and I will answer them soon.
Maybe making it easier to complete previous tier could be the solution here. This could maybe be accomplished by reducing required skill points, multiplying required skill points per item, reducing mat requirements.... Is any of that possible?
 

Thomas

Member
I'm really disappointed to hear this. I really looked forward to the decoupling. But I'll also admit that in the long term, it won't change my playstyle. Eventually I will have unlocked every crafting tier anyways.
 

Propheon

Well-known member
I really don't understand why a crafting event needs to be competitive... to me it should be a relaxing cooperative activity. I really hope the devs rethinks these events because with its current competitive design it is not something I and probably others want to engage in. It kind of puts me off crafting altogether...
 

IanMacLyr

New member
Thanks for the update, and thanks for what you all intended, even if it didn’t work out.

Question: Would it meet your intent if you were able to gift out a token to each toon that at least completes the Gundabad crafting tier? Or something along these lines?
 

DoRonRon

Well-known member
The bad actors, you call them, flagged as RP I point out, would otherwise just be using a ploy to mislead other player into thinking they had an advantage when they just had better intel and the skills to win. So that their less skilled players could have a clear run and a winner ribbon.

I'd only pull them up on instigation of their plan when the event was still bugged despite your insistence each new build on BR had every issue covered and didn't put your last build on BR before release which happened without your knowledge even - soft opening as we call it.

It was clear to me doing so much on the beta that taking control of the event on your home server was very much an advantage to gaining blue ribbons with their 90% better rewards. Potentially you could be reduced to just a few players with the skills and knowledge to lock down the event working in shifts. Even 4 people on each server there is with enough MC could do it in theory. And in so doing completely destroy any interest for others to play them once they had realise the futility and perhaps the MC they had spent in vain.

I had some time ago suggested you take a look at an exceptional player made video series that may have had you realise what capable players with great planning and skill can achieve in an unlikely and regarded as an impossible goal. Much to be learned from the player's perspective, if nothing else the line "These players are actually having fun raiding?" as their own prospect of their goal dwindles.

Getting players to turn up naked was a hoot. That's more about a player's own greed and the frustration brought about by having the build still full of holes. The mithril axe on a dwarf does indeed look like the rendering shown, though having seen the all those combat axes I'd actual prefer them to "show" off how great my crafter was to those waiting by for my wears. Like that's ever likely to happen...

What got me with the event was the use of the drinking mechanic and it was only doing the quick Wistmead 4 quick quests a day that I got it. Stopped drinking many years ago so as soon as the Inn League got implement I took the steps anyone can make to all but mitigate their effects when playing such content. So I never realised the intention was to have a balance of some faster run but increased drunk effects in play. But ofc I just had my character off centre to tell me I had drunk the ideal 3. As anyone can do. So I finally get the why it's been used, as some choice to go slow with less drunken effects or quickest with the worst of them in play. But ofc none of my runs, whatever I imbibed made a ha'penny difference to me. Fast is fast, first to pick up cable too is a win. Though first to pick up to later be passed by four others and then to repass them all for a win has some fun factor. But maybe there's something I have missed still.

As for the Axe being seemingly server specific up to now, either not exactly taxing or another bug? Just to present each newcomer to the event a 2 in 3 chance to fail their only run of the day. Winners pick the servers' quick axe and do it quickly.


And with all that, how was the new crafting tier ideas to be implemented? I've been using the crafting systems for all those years and it's gotten all the way to Westernmet before it got killed. Needs reviving fully before it become a zombie in Umbar.

Leave the guilds as they are to make up for dearth from the last few years too.

If only you guys had someone with more than lacklustre game play knowledge to show us any of you have someone to ask "how bad an idea is this?"
 
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Pharone

Twitch Streamer
I'm not disappointed by this outcome.

What about adding barterable items at the crafting events (Combe forester event, etc) where you can trade ribbons for consumables that give crafting experience for specific crafting tiers? Give people another reason to do the crafting events.

Make the requirements for purchasing the specific crafting consumable items be that the character has that tier of crafting available to them.

Example:
Toon with Gundabad Forestry tier available (not mastered yet) can purchase Forestry Gundabad Experience consumable with 20 participation ribbons. Consuming the item gives them X number of crafting experience in Forestry for the Gundabad tier.

Then tie the consumables that are barterable to be relevant to the crafting event being ran at that time. Therefore, to get Forestry consumables, you need to purchase them from the barter at the Combe Forestry event. You wouldn't be able to purchase the Prospector consumable at that event in other words.

Edited to add...
These consumables should be Bound to Account, so that people can't just abuse the events to sell crafting experience consumables.
 

Orion

Lead Designer
This might be a silly question, but would it be possible to just create a new crafting system for Umbar going forward? That way it isn't tied to the restrictions currently in place? Might be awkward for a while but in 5 years might be the way to go?
It's not a silly question at all. The answer is no. The amount of UI piping alone would take too long and require too much to make it worthwhile.
 

Neinda

Well-known member
As long as the crafting event is PVP, people will continue to find a way to cheat others and win. It is much more difficult to cheat when you are playing against a timer by yourself. The fact that people felt so comfortable posting how to cheat on the official forums and other social media reflects very poorly on the event, the players, etc. It feels as if there are no consequences for those who cheated and gained from doing so. They really ruined the whole idea of the event and the work put into developing the event. It feels like the Moors again when the group who will not be named decided to destroy PVP for all the small servers. Same thing with those who farmed the landscape and got raid groups banned from having fun. Same as the changes to cappy and LM pets and using them to AFK farm things. Same thing happening here now with the forester event.

As long as the bad behavior is allowed to continue without any repercussions, the bad behavior will continue to infect the game and destroy it one area at a time. The bulk of the player base ends up being punished when these individuals decide to exploit a game function. The exploit gets shut down and the player base loses something once again. The exploiters move on to the next exploit because they know they can get away with it.
 

Orion

Lead Designer
I really don't understand why a crafting event needs to be competitive... to me it should be a relaxing cooperative activity. I really hope the devs rethinks these events because with its current competitive design it is not something I and probably others want to engage in. It kind of puts me off crafting altogether...
Not every event we ever create will be like this one. Not every event we create will be enjoyed by every player. Some of these crafting events will remain competitive, some will be cooperative. Variety is the goal to help keep the events engaging and fresh.
 

Orion

Lead Designer
Thanks for the update, and thanks for what you all intended, even if it didn’t work out.

Question: Would it meet your intent if you were able to gift out a token to each toon that at least completes the Gundabad crafting tier? Or something along these lines?
Until we have a solution for the previous tiers, this would not be possible.
 

Nuramon

Member
If decoupling crafting tiers doesn't work, maybe Umbar crafting could instead be tied to the hobby system? Like e.g. there would be a hobby called "Umbar woodworking".
 
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