Can someone please explain the rationale behind currency caps?

[Lorianna]

I suspect that much of the angst I feel regarding figments is because I am a lower level newly-ish returned player as compared to so many of you who have purchased much of what you want already, stashed currencies, and are of a level to play the "bypass the caps" game. My intention, once I got a grasp of this huge game became a desire to move very slowly through Middle Earth, savoring all that I came across. enjoying every quest, every festival, exploring all the wonders! I love my Lyndelby home more than I can express. I have a Rivendell home as well but have not begun to decorate it fully.

So I am left with a choice; level quickly and miss so much, or take my time and ignore the figment caps and vendors. I am not at RT level, certainly not anywhere close to cap! I did level a character solely to run missions (level 25) for embers, but the sheer cost of the figment items and unavailability of the vendors makes my mission running a small drop in a gigantic bucket

Thank you for this. It is something I may attempt IF Curator is available. It would be better than just shedding any earned figments once cap is reached in case I reach a point where I might have leveled enough to look at the figment vendors wares.

I see alot of love for Middle Earth here, loyal players from launch. I also see many new players coming in. It is probably hard to set fair currency caps for new & old players alike. What would be lost if some of these "fluff, cosmetic, decoration" vendor caps were raised enough to make the vendors feel worthwhile to all? As a newer player, the currency caps remain frustrating & disheartening.

Sad thing is that all items end up on the Curator who comes 3-4 times a year for a very short time. The ember/figment/mote caps wouldn't be such a problem if she was permanent. That way you could get items you like year-round and only have to worry about new item every 4 months.

 

[Erionor]

This is good advice, thank you. I started LOTRO close to launch and stayed for some years, but the classes did not click. Coming back to find Beornings (my favorite) brought me back in. Hunters are another favorite. At any rate, I bought some long ago expansions up to Rohan, but never got past level 12, lol. When I create a new character now, I automatically get 4 steel keys from those early perks. That & the deeds you mentioned would help alot.

I still wholeheartedly believe the caps need be raised! /hides

Oh brilliant! So you’ve got at least 7 years of anniversary rewards, nice. Although that’s a long time to have been playing and to have only reached level 12…

I am kind of agnostic to the idea of the currency caps. For a player, removing them would be much more convenient, of course, but I also understand the arguments for having them.

 

[Lorianna]

Why do you need to hoard them anyway?
You seem obsessed with having the tokens without even spending them.
Thats your right, but not something a game designer should cater to.
If currencies lose value, and people become bored thats bad for business/ the game's health.

new items. Items at high reputation tiers, to feel good about a reward earned, not vanishing into thin air.

I have made my points which you seem to ignore. Not all currencies are the same, some have rewards I like and never enough currency for, others don't. To be forced to spend for what I don't need or lose the reward is demotivating.

For example, I spend all my Umbar tokens and would like to barter for more. I don't like their dailies so have to get another character through, hoping they get enough reputation to barter for those rewards. That's why I don't want to spend before my main gets the highest reputation.
I capped figments last festival and had to spend on an item that doesn't fit the purpose, and I just got so I wouldn't lose the currency... waste. Next time there might be so many items I want to barter for that I don't have enough. 7500/10000 is very expensive to the point of ridiculous.
My AS are always capped, and I throw the boxes below 600 out because there is nothing to barter for besides traceries at this point.

I can already "hoard" certain low capped currencies in my vault. I wouldn't mind more sensitive caps like Yondershire where I never hit the cap and pricing is very reasonable. But that will never happen. The caps as they are now with so many rewards are punishment.

 

[Hushpuppy]

Oh brilliant! So you’ve got at least 7 years of anniversary rewards, nice. Although that’s a long time to have been playing and to have only reached level 12…

I am kind of agnostic to the idea of the currency caps. For a player, removing them would be much more convenient, of course, but I also understand the arguments for having them.

For those early years I only logged on occasionally because I did not really like any of the classes at the time. I bought expansions because I loved the LOTR books so much and always hoped the game would come to feel like home to me. It did not until I left for many years and came back early last summer. I have quit other games I played because this one is where I want to be.

And....I understand the why of caps, especially on currency that provides rewards that increase player power, but I definitely see no reason for the caps on "fluff" to be so horridly low if they must exist at all. This is not a game where we must feel compelled to rush to level cap. There is too much to see and do. I like having decorations for my homes, certain mounts, pets, & wardrobe items for each character as they journey forth into adventure. We all play our own way here and that is one of the great joys of LOTRO

 

[Aquatic]

I been thinking about this, since I first read this post.

While I could get behind raising some of the caps, I also view it as a fence against addictive behaviour.
I spend 30-40 minutes each day just to log in all of my characters that are level 15 or above to hoard Universal Ingredient Packs from Crates at my house. If there was a cap on those, then I would be forced to either spend them or perhaps realise, that I could do without them and stop spending time collecting them. So I kind of wish there were a 10k cap or so.
Also I sometimes want to kick myself for starting a festival on one more character, because I know that I will then feel committed to do the 120 quests to complete it.

While it is perfect alright to say that the above is my problem and I should deal with it, then it is nice when things like caps help a little against FOMO (or call it what you like). In my country there are rules for advertising for alcohol and betting for a reason. There are many forms of addictions and its alright give people a nudge in the right direction.

Keep the caps in my humble opinion, but raise some of them though.

I can relate, and billions of people are "addicted" to the digital world to some degree, and it does come at a cost. If a person had a severe problem, the caps won't really cure a person as we will just go waste time on another game or something else. It might be a good tactic for a few days, but the addictive behavior will come back in another way. I would just start learning about and watching a bunch of videos and articles on the topic. Basically, a person needs to replace them with productive habits probably, but that also might require them understanding why they behaves that way in the first place. Also, the dailies, will hamper one's ability to develop new habits. So that has to go bye bye if one considers it a problem.

The other thing is we know that developers won't be doing this for the reason you stated which is a keen observation on your part.

 

[Grokl]

I can relate, and billions of people are "addicted" to the digital world to some degree, and it does come at a cost. If a person had a severe problem, the caps won't really cure a person as we will just go waste time on another game or something else. It might be a good tactic for a few days, but the addictive behavior will come back in another way. I would just start learning about and watching a bunch of videos and articles on the topic. Basically, a person needs to replace them with productive habits probably, but that also might require them understanding why they behaves that way in the first place. Also, the dailies, will hamper one's ability to develop new habits. So that has to go bye bye if one considers it a problem.

The other thing is we know that developers won't be doing this for the reason you stated which is a keen observation on your part.

I just like to add, that I can stop myself. At one point I did 10 tasks each week for Universal Optional Crafting Ingredients, but after I stocked 100+ I stopped.
Wonder when I will feel the same about Universal Ingredient Packs, because they can feel like a short-cut to doing some crafting tiers easily.

 

[Erionor]

My AS are always capped, and I throw the boxes below 600 out because there is nothing to barter for besides traceries at this point.

I wish I had that problem, I really do.

 

[sealana]

I have never got rid of AS box. It seems that they are capped for some time, I'm getting annoyed, move new asquirred boxes to alt to bank, then I have a lot. Then 1 of my characters levels up and boom! I need to recraft both of her LIs and all AS I had capped go bye, bye and I start opening those boxes I has stored on alt because those capped earlier were not enough. And alt's vault gets empty again. So no, I dont throw away AS. Or any boxes from reward track. Most of the time I just dismantle those purple and green/yellow traceries. But my vaults on alts hurt. And moving those items between alts takes too much time. At least there are plugins which help me find items on alts later when I need them...Hoarder.. I know :(

 

[Lorianna]

I wish I had that problem, I really do.

I play one character at a time and that is the only one I care to update. The latest had traceries that expired. The gear-, esssence- and ILI grind to stay updated with the removal of crafted and reputation gear has taught me not to care. As long as I have no problem dying, I don't need it.
I start not caring about fluff either with the currency caps and tremendous grind involved to get it.

 

[Fadil]

I have made my points which you seem to ignore. Not all currencies are the same, some have rewards I like and never enough currency for, others don't. To be forced to spend for what I don't need or lose the reward is demotivating.

I didnt ignore you, but you reply to a general discussion about the reasons for currency caps or even grinding in mmorpgs, with a long reply about your own playstyle and your desire to hoard currencies.

I tried to answer the OP, who asked a question:
"Can someone please explain the rationale behind currency caps?"
I mentioned devaluation of currencies when the caps are removed and loss of engagement with the game, of the general playerbase.
I mean, just google the subject, books were written about it.
In the end gamecompanies want people to keep playing, and currency caps or grinding are ways to keep people engaged with the content, in between expansions.

You clearly dont agree with currency caps, but I have no reaction to/ opinion on that, that's why I didnt reply. I mean, it's not as if I like currency caps
No one likes currency caps or grinding, yet it makes people log in and it gives players something to do, that's why they are/ will be part of online games.

 

[Bone]

I wish I had that problem, I really do.

You and me both. With my army of alts, I’m always short on ancient script.

 

[Gildoriel]

You said Caps make sense only for embers and delving writs, I said they make sense for other currencies as well.
It keeps people engaged with the various parts of the game.
I know that right before the curator comes, kinnies want to do lots of old content to get motes, which they convert to figments, for example.
I dont see it as punishing players, when they actually engage with the game, and have fun while doing it..)

Hm, I don't know. When I am capped I play less not more. I have shelved four of my cap level chars for now because they have all virtues full. If I am at delving writ cap I won't run delvings anymore. Motes get lost, other currency as well. I don't think caps enticing people to play more really adds up.

 

[Fadil]

Hm, I don't know. When I am capped I play less not more. I have shelved four of my cap level chars for now because they have all virtues full. If I am at delving writ cap I won't run delvings anymore. Motes get lost, other currency as well. I don't think caps enticing people to play more really adds up.

But if they're uncapped, you'll just add 50, 60 k delving writs or more, and then you will log in to do delvings?
I dont think that motivates people either tbh.

As it is people do instances with kinnies or pugs to do the weekly, I somehow doubt that'll still happen once people have 200k embers/ motes/ figments.

 

[Gildoriel]

But if they're uncapped, you'll just add 50, 60 k delving writs or more, and then you will log in to do delvings?
I dont think that motivates people either tbh.

As it is people do instances with kinnies or pugs to do the weekly, I somehow doubt that'll still happen once people have 200k embers/ motes/ figments.

It's just when I see that playing doesn't reward me anything of value to me right now, I don't do this. After running the same cap level instances 20-30 times, I'm just so bored by them. And no, higher difficulty doesn't help. It's just the repetition that's boring. I don't read books and reread the final chapter three times per week. I'll do delvings when my kinnies need me to or if I feel like it. But after capping the currency I would just ask myself: Is this what I really want to do or might my time not better be spent somewhere else?

 

[Lorianna]

But if they're uncapped, you'll just add 50, 60 k delving writs or more, and then you will log in to do delvings?
I dont think that motivates people either tbh.

As it is people do instances with kinnies or pugs to do the weekly, I somehow doubt that'll still happen once people have 200k embers/ motes/ figments.

And why should it happen with a cap? Players barter for what they need and then are done with the content once they reach the cap while they might continue to play without a cap.

 

[Gildoriel]

And why should it happen with a cap? Players barter for what they need and then are done with the content once they reach the cap while they might continue to play without a cap.

Having no cap would keep me doing content in the hope of "sometime there'll be something really cool I absolutely want to spend my saved up currency for" - even if that never happens and even if that currency is made obsolete with no means of exchanging it for something new (looking at my immense pile of shards from the old Legendary Items system).

 

[JohnMHammer]

I understand that part of the intent of currency caps is to encourage spending rather than hoarding, and to prevent players from having very large amounts of certain currencies when a new level cap is introduced or when a special discount or other temporary opportunity is presented. For example, end-game players would love to have extremely large amounts of Embers saved to use to immediately gear up all their characters the moment they reach the new level cap (which many will do within an hour because of the ability to take advantage of the XP boosts and the Mission/quest system). For another, I would have saved up a lot more than 10,000 Embers to use this past weekend during the +20% VXP event for the Embers-to-VXP quests if that had been possible.

However, there are caps which no longer serve a purpose that I can rationalize. And all capped currencies should have a "sweep" so that currency is never lost but instead is converted to some other currency.

An example of the first is the cap on Umbari Tami. This was a reasonable cap when we were still under the Corsairs of Umbar/Legacy of Morgoth Level 150 cap. At this time while a few practical uses for Umbari Tami remain, they are mostly used now for cosmetics. This is an example of a currency cap which ought to be removed.

An example of the second is Embers, Motes, and Figments. As I wrote in the first paragraph, there are reasonable reasons to maintain a cap on Embers. And Motes are similar in use for characters under the level cap so a currency cap for Motes is also rational. However, Figments have no impact whatsoever on character power or any other practical function, they are purely for cosmetic purchases and therefore ought to not have a currency cap applied. It is already possible to convert Embers or Motes to Figments on a 1:1 basis in quantities of 1,000 units per action. I have suggested in the past in https://forums.lotro.com/index.php?forums/player-suggestions.30/ that excess Embers ought to sweep to Motes, and excess Motes ought to sweep to Figments, and there ought to be no cap on Figments. Excess Ancient Script could sweep to Figments on a 1:1 basis as well.

 

[HappyBudgy]

But if they're uncapped, you'll just add 50, 60 k delving writs or more, and then you will log in to do delvings?
I dont think that motivates people either tbh.

As it is people do instances with kinnies or pugs to do the weekly, I somehow doubt that'll still happen once people have 200k embers/ motes/ figments.

What this points at is: there are not enough useful/desirable items to barter for once we have been playing for a while.

Motivation is a loop: 'I have a desire to play' x 'there has to be something desirable to play for'.

In (much) older content, I would finish regional reputations on my top 5 characters, mostly via regional questing. My main goal was leveling characters, the side effect was maxed reputation. Currency was not on my mind, because there were no caps.

Now, with the grind through dailies, I finish them on ONE character only to have access to the housing items - that's my avoidant behavior. Adding the dailies and the cap changed my enjoyment because they became a double negative enforcer.

The third negative enforcer is: in order to not lose rep currency while maxing rep levels, I have to now continue to buy items to stay under the cap.

Losing currency while not maxed in reputation level and/or having to buy items to avoid losing said currency are 3 demotivators: players will be more likely to avoid the activity. And that, to me, would be a reflex I would not want to see, if I were a gaming company.

Compare festivals: very repetitive, yet I do not experience them in the same way as rep dailies or missions.
Some festivals I avoid for the setting, e.g. spring maze and Minas Tirith. Others I still love. They give a lot in return: I level alts through them, finish the wrappers for figments, progress the RT. Festival currencies are a by-product that I do not think about, except now with the Summer festival cap. I have over ten thousand Yule tokens over many characters on many accounts - they don't diminish my enjoyment of that festival one bit.

 

[HappyBudgy]

I understand that part of the intent of currency caps is to encourage spending rather than hoarding, and to prevent players from having very large amounts of certain currencies when a new level cap is introduced or when a special discount or other temporary opportunity is presented. For example, end-game players would love to have extremely large amounts of Embers saved to use to immediately gear up all their characters the moment they reach the new level cap (which many will do within an hour because of the ability to take advantage of the XP boosts and the Mission/quest system). For another, I would have saved up a lot more than 10,000 Embers to use this past weekend during the +20% VXP event for the Embers-to-VXP quests if that had been possible.

However, there are caps which no longer serve a purpose that I can rationalize. And all capped currencies should have a "sweep" so that currency is never lost but instead is converted to some other currency.

An example of the first is the cap on Umbari Tami. This was a reasonable cap when we were still under the Corsairs of Umbar/Legacy of Morgoth Level 150 cap. At this time while a few practical uses for Umbari Tami remain, they are mostly used now for cosmetics. This is an example of a currency cap which ought to be removed.

An example of the second is Embers, Motes, and Figments. As I wrote in the first paragraph, there are reasonable reasons to maintain a cap on Embers. And Motes are similar in use for characters under the level cap so a currency cap for Motes is also rational. However, Figments have no impact whatsoever on character power or any other practical function, they are purely for cosmetic purchases and therefore ought to not have a currency cap applied. It is already possible to convert Embers or Motes to Figments on a 1:1 basis in quantities of 1,000 units per action. I have suggested in the past in https://forums.lotro.com/index.php?forums/player-suggestions.30/ that excess Embers ought to sweep to Motes, and excess Motes ought to sweep to Figments, and there ought to be no cap on Figments. Excess Ancient Script could sweep to Figments on a 1:1 basis as well.

Two points.

1. What's the harm if someone can gear up quickly? They will grind the currency again for the next round. Same with putting max levels on tracery boxes from the RT. Why not give players the satisfaction of being able to be decked out in nice stuff for longer?

2. Figments will remain capped because they are part of lootboxes. Those lootboxes can also contain unique housing items. Players who buy a lot of lootboxes for those unique items are not supposed to have unlimited figments because this would diminish how many lootboxes a player buys: other new housing items are only available for figments and for a brief time on a rotating vendor. Players buy lootboxes to quickly acquire figments to obtain these items as well.

 

[Lorianna]

Two points.

1. What's the harm if someone can gear up quickly? They will grind the currency again for the next round. Same with putting max levels on tracery boxes from the RT. Why not give players the satisfaction of being able to be decked out in nice stuff for longer?

2. Figments will remain capped because they are part of lootboxes. Those lootboxes can also contain unique housing items. Players who buy a lot of lootboxes for those unique items are not supposed to have unlimited figments because this would diminish how many lootboxes a player buys: other new housing items are only available for figments and for a brief time on a rotating vendor. Players buy lootboxes to quickly acquire figments to obtain these items as well.

As pointed out, the problem with figments is a limited supply through festival wrappers. Players who don't do much of repetitive endgame will not have many motes/embers for conversion either. To keep under cap, there needs to be a permanent barter (Curator) because items are way too expensive and older items go to her. The window to acquire new items is very small. That would also ensure that newer players have a chance to use their figments for the items they actually want, be it pets, cosmetics or furniture and keeps figments low naturally.

As to the boxes, I know players who buy keys to get the fluff. I have opened them myself with keys I still have from Mordor but the limit for me is 3 and I only want the box-only offers. Right now, I would like 2 items from the boxes, that's probably a 2/50 chance considering the number of new items this time. Not even wasting one key on that chance. I can wait and even live without these items.

It is a vicious cycle. Either I hit cap without anything to spend on, or I have not enough to spend.