A Case for Continuity: Saving the Mordor & Angmar Legendary Journey.

berriebunce

Well-known member
Being a 'lore dev' (although technically I'm something different, but I appreciate the sentiment), is the reason I wanted to say something, because players were saying 'the server has to end because of lore!' -- and I don't think that's true, which is why I thought the upset was unwarranted. There are plenty of other reasons a server might end, but I don't agree that the Veil of the Nine doesn't make any sense after Sauron is gone, because I've always seen it as a gameplay-first sort of mechanic, rather than a story one. I'm just one vote, but that's my vote.

Given that now the most exciting thing going on is complaining about my tone, it probably goes without saying that I won't be posting anymore.

MoL
This (highlighted passage) is wrong. It wasn't players who started talking about the server closing down early because of lore (i. e. because its special feature would have to go away after the destruction of the ring), but @Cordovan. In fact, players suggested tons of ways to keep the Nazgûl - and the server - going. Maybe you missed his postings? He wrote:

It is true that historically we have closed the Legendary Worlds when they reach level cap parity, but Angmar and Mordor are the first based on a particular part of the story, and that story ends before the current live game level cap.
and
Normally under Legendary Worlds we reach the live server level cap then offer free transfers from these worlds, however, the Veil of the Nine experience specifically points to a Nazgul theme and underlying mechanics, so there is some consideration of wrapping up the world when the server’s main driving point ends rather than continuing as a “regular” world without the Veil of the Nine experience.

Can you see how the upset wasn't so "unwarranted"?

From what I've seen in the discussion, the great majority of players are totally with you on the lore issue. I hope you can help our point with the dev team. We love the VotN, and we'd really love to see at least one of the servers continue to live level cap.
 

Hellrider8

Well-known member
Perhaps it isn't a great idea to repost things from Discord to the forums if comments are going to be misunderstood/misinterpreted when removed from the wider context.
It isn't fault of lack of full context.
Basically: one dev told that they dont know what will do with server because "main point was part of story ending before live cap", ignoring previous statements about holding server till live cap.
Another one told that if he would make decision wouldnt close them (good to hear, but since it hisn't his decision it changes nothing), then told that people are worrying about nothing (speaking about context, if he would know full context (example "what players know, and what they heard from CM") he most likely would understand concerns).

I will repeat that, even dont know which time: you don't drop such bomb if you cannot share more informations, and for sure you don't drop such informations soon before vacations.

Yes, they have communication issues, quite big would say, and even if they are doing something in good faith (because I'm not denying that)- outcome is very often poor.
 

QueenofTheDodos

Well-known member
It was actually my comments on Discord that MoL first reponded to, and I have to say that I did not take his reply "I think people are getting upset about nothing" as dismissive or offensive at all. I understood it as "I don't think the situation is as bad as you all are thinking." MoL was responding to us in what I would characterize as a friendly and playful manner; the tone was casual and he was making jokes while responding to us. Such as:



I understand that tone is difficult to convey over text, and I think that is especially true when you are missing the wider context of the conversation on Discord. I think that's something that players on the forums tend to forget. Discord posts are more like chatting than formal announcements, and when I post dev comments here you are only seeing a portion of the conversation. I personally think it's a bit extreme to expect the devs to hyper-analyze their word choices and phrasing during casual chatting as if it was some formal statement they were announcing. I want more dev communication, not less, so I personally think we should cut them some slack when they do go out of their way to engage with us. If it's a terrible experience everytime they try to communicate with us, is it any wonder they choose to stay silent instead?

I'm not denying SSG has communication issues, and I'm not defending how they've handled things in the past, but this was a single dev choosing to engage with us in an attempt to ease our concerns. It was not a formal SSG statement on anything. I thought I was doing something helpful by posting the comments here for players who don't use Discord, but now I feel a bit badly about it since MoL is being criticized for doing something that I thought was kind and reassuring. Perhaps it isn't a great idea to repost things from Discord to the forums if comments are going to be misunderstood/misinterpreted when removed from the wider context.
Yeah, people are going overboard. A dev tried to help and people just got so mad. I do not blame them for being more quiet if people are going to hyper analyzed every word and get mad if they don't say the right thing.

Dev didn't even say anything rude either.
 

Arnenna

Defender of the Great Apes
Yeah, people are going overboard. A dev tried to help and people just got so mad. I do not blame them for being more quiet if people are going to hyper analyzed every word and get mad if they don't say the right thing.

Dev didn't even say anything rude either.
Nobody got mad! Let's straighten that out right off the bat.

People just voiced how this issue is about anything but "nothing." It's something, and it's something quite important.

After the discord comments, people were legitimately concerned that Mordor and Angmar would close at level 115, as a direct result of those comments. Then they were asked for feedback why they wished the server to remain open past 115 - which is what this thread is all about.
 

Gildoriel

Guardian of the Citadel
Yeah, people are going overboard. A dev tried to help and people just got so mad. I do not blame them for being more quiet if people are going to hyper analyzed every word and get mad if they don't say the right thing.

Dev didn't even say anything rude either.
If you think that people went overboard, you're hyper analyzing other people's posts. Nobody went mad.
 

tanlis

Well-known member
Everyone should remember, the customer isn't always right. In fact often the customer is wrong, but because they own the money, they get to be "right" often.
 

maartena

Drinks Coffee All Day!
Being a 'lore dev' (although technically I'm something different, but I appreciate the sentiment), is the reason I wanted to say something, because players were saying 'the server has to end because of lore!' -- and I don't think that's true, which is why I thought the upset was unwarranted. There are plenty of other reasons a server might end, but I don't agree that the Veil of the Nine doesn't make any sense after Sauron is gone, because I've always seen it as a gameplay-first sort of mechanic, rather than a story one. I'm just one vote, but that's my vote.

I'm going to agree with this.... simply because I want the journey to continue through at least level 130!


Given that now the most exciting thing going on is complaining about my tone, it probably goes without saying that I won't be posting anymore.

MoL

Sorry that happened. I hope you change your mind, I have always valued your opinions. Some people just can never be happy, and just HAVE to complain about SOMETHING, and you were the target this day.
 

maartena

Drinks Coffee All Day!
If a Business fails to provide what the customer wants, then they will fail.

That is not how a business works. If the customer wants 20000 LP for free per month of VIP, do you think they MUST provide because otherwise they will fail? Or give away ALL expansions for free including ALL new content, otherwise the business will fail?
 

Sarenna

Well-known member
That is not how a business works. If the customer wants 20000 LP for free per month of VIP, do you think they MUST provide because otherwise they will fail? Or give away ALL expansions for free including ALL new content, otherwise the business will fail?

I wasn't talking about ridiculous demands like that - and you know that full well. However, if a Business does not provide the products or service that the customers want and expect, they will go elsewhere.
 

Fjorgynr

Stout-axe dreaming of trees
Given that now the most exciting thing going on is complaining about my tone, it probably goes without saying that I won't be posting anymore.

MoL

I am also sorry you have been made to feel this way and I apologise for my part in that, that was certainly not the intent I was trying to convey a couple of things, one was the reaction I had seen here to those quotes and feelings about what seems to be happening from my experience in the past where there have been comments made informally that have indicated the early closure of legendary servers and that is part of what has been discussed here. I should have just left you out of any response and rather put forward a concern that while that clearly showed there was no end date due to Lord for the Veil of Nine it does seem it is now, maybe, something management is putting forward as a reason to close the servers early and this has trickled down, perhaps inadvertently.

It was actually my comments on Discord that MoL first reponded to, and I have to say that I did not take his reply "I think people are getting upset about nothing" as dismissive or offensive at all. I understood it as "I don't think the situation is as bad as you all are thinking." MoL was responding to us in what I would characterize as a friendly and playful manner; the tone was casual and he was making jokes while responding to us. Such as:

I should also have given greater consideration to the chatty nature of Discord and that these comments are in isolation and I will endeavour to learn from this and ensure it is a always something I consider when replying to such posts., Afterall I expect this will happen in the future, maybe not with you but someone else from SSG, because it seems Discord is now King when it comes to communicating with the players and those of us who, for whatever reason, only use the forums can be kept in the dark. I hope in time, once you have got past how this has made you feel, you will communicate with us in the future.
 
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Hellrider8

Well-known member
I wasn't talking about ridiculous demands like that - and you know that full well. However, if a Business does not provide the products or service that the customers want and expect, they will go elsewhere.
Not in lotro case, all people are so loyal that only end of live can end their relation with game ☺️
<looking at 2 server merges which resulted in reducing amount of servers last years>
Ye..of course, I'm not wrong, trust me.
 

Greenpath

the sky is falling!
Sorry that happened. I hope you change your mind, I have always valued your opinions. Some people just can never be happy, and just HAVE to complain about SOMETHING, and you were the target this day.
and some people still believe this is a charity and not a business, and want to impose their forced positivity on everybody. Blind loyalty is not good either
 

Sarenna

Well-known member
Not in lotro case, all people are so loyal that only end of live can end their relation with game
You're right that Lotro players are very loyal and far more forgiving than the customers of most businesses.
I wasn't talking specifically about Lotro, but Businesses in general. Nevertheless, there must be a limit to how much even Lotro players will forgive. There are at least two other somewhat similar MMOs that I know of (namely World of Warcraft and Guild Wars 2) and there are probably more, that players could move to if they feel that they aren't getting what they want here.
I've played exclusively on Mordor server since it opened and really don't want to see it closed at all, however, as long as we get free transfers to another server (as I'm sure we will), I'm not "too" unhappy - certainly not enough to go elsewhere.
 
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