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  1. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by SSG_Orion View Post
    Camp Relocation – Orc and Elf

    Tol Ascarnen is the central fort and what should be the main battle location in the Ettenmoors. The EC and OC camps were crucial fallback and push positions that actively contributed to the battle space. I am considering moving these camps back to0 their original locations.
    I have been praying for this for over 10 years. Since the days of Russian Lotr servers.
    The relocation of An`s camp and Pashum`s camp was a tragedy

  2. #177
    Hey Orion, heard so much about you. My suggestion would be to avoid all suggestions, as they're overwhelming and fixing one thing might break another. I think a small debuff to Freeps upon entering Ettenmoors would be sufficient, but yet again I lack authority in this matter not only because I am new to Creep side, but because I'm entirely new to LOTRO as well (joined one week ago).

    I am currently playing as F2P, though I do not exclude the possibility of making purchases in the future once I grasp the "knowledge" behind many concepts, so I would avoid making incorrect decisions. This brings out my next questions as your average F2P, and there are quite a few of us now recently. I'm sure these questions would concern them too.

    1) You mentioned updating and adding corruptions. As F2P, we need to spend extra time on perfecting and managing our builds out of necessity to farm commendations and LP to unlock trait slots. And that's totally fine. However, it would be devastating if one should spend weeks to get that done, and to create their own build eventually, only to find out that in the next patch it's completely irrelevant due to tweaks into existing corruptions and implementation of new ones. How drastic would these corruptions changes be in your opinion? Should I just basically avoid making any "investments" into corruption traits until they're patched? Would people get a refund on commendations spent on corruptions? (I would assume trait slots would be purchased via LP regardless, so that's not waste of time).

    2) About that healing debuff, I would assume it applies to all sides. Does that refer to healing done in parties or individual skills as well? Like for example, a Reaver is a weak class already, nerfing his healing skills would damage him even more so. So if a Reaver already has trouble fighting Hunters (who barely have any healing at all), then it basically comes off as a one sided nerf. Since the Hunter didn't lose anything in this tweak and wasn't made any weaker equivalently. Making the Freep side again even more favorable.
    Last edited by Jewen; May 18 2022 at 05:09 AM.

  3. #178
    I'd also like to point out an issue that many medium-low population servers have in the Ettenmoors; having to spend large amounts of time playing hide & seek with the opponent in the vastness of the map.
    A suggestion I have to ease this issue would be to remove the zone-wide Renown/Infamy buffs granted by capturing Keeps, demotivating players from simply roaming around, hoping to get an easy kill on a lone player. Players should instead be given reason to actually aim for the objectives of the map, that is the Keeps themselves.
    My suggestion is that, while fighting near and within a keep, players will get a different buff depending on whether that keep belongs to them or not. Both defenders and attackers should get a substantial bonus to Renown/Infamy gains in order to motivate them to fight at the keeps themselves, say of around 60-100%. At the same time, if defenders of a keep are outnumbered, they should be granted bonuses to morale, damage and mitigations, to motivate the defenders to try and push the attacking force back instead of just porting away. The same buff should be applied to the attacking force if they are the ones outnumbered, again to keep them motivated to aim for the objective instead of just running away.

  4. #179
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Hey Orion, Welcome back and thanks for working toward improving monster play.

    A few Ideas I had that i think would be interesting improvements. whether they are good, bad , easy to do or hard I have no idea but wanted to provide some feedback that members of my Kin and I talked about and all liked .

    1) First off i know there has been talk of wanting improve kinships and give them more options. This idea could help both PVMP AND work toward Kinship- Add a new version of PVMP currency (commendations or renown/infamy ) Called Kinship commendations/Renown/Infamy etc. When a member of a kinship earns one of these things give the same amount to the kinship they are in . This currently can be then used to claim and upgrade outpost and keeps in the moors. A example would be the lumber camp. You mentioned lowering the number of NPCs defending but making them harder. Assuming you go with that a Kin could claim the lumber camp and upgrade it using the above mentioned points. All freeps/creeps at this camp get a + to audacity rating and the upgrades could add more weak npcs back as defenders or add more quest npcs etc. This would give more kins reason to go out there with larger numbers to earn points and help defend /take over places in the moors.

    2) Switch the delving back how it was. One side needs to own it to gain access. Add quest for the delving only and update potion drops etc to lvl 140.

    3) Update rewards you can get from chest you can open with key purchased with tokens of valor . Nothing big . Make 140 level PVMP only potions etc. Maybe also a way to get ancient scripts for legendries or items for PVMP quest such as lashes/bands
    4) One of the hardest parts for a new creep is leveling getting rank and commendations to upgrade skills. Even question solo at level one is much harder these days. I get some work needs to be put in so all creeps are not rank 6 and maxed skills from jump since any VIP or person who buys the classed can start at 140 but creep numbers are low due to the limited ways to work them up. Add a creep only dungeon you can only enter until you hit rank 4 or 5 and freeps can not enter to jump you. Make it drop items for the creep quest so they can go there when its slow and no raid to join for PVPing or questing where they can work on leveling up skills without a freep running up and constantly killing them while they are trying to kill a slug. This would be a choice for them to enter . The entrance could be at the steps and only exit same spot so it cant before used to sneak behind lines and block them out once they hit rank 4 or 5 . It can even have its own quest where you get less commendations/infamy as you rank up to prevent it from being a super easy way to level but easer than open moors. Still takes time to do . Work has to be put in . Have to practice your skills etc but you wont have people new to creep side get aggravated that they take 1-2 min to kill a slug and may get killed my one solo well geared freep and thinking creeps are way underpowered when they are just not properly leveled and geared yet .

    5) Another alternative to the above and also in line with what yall have done before is add a version of "battlegrounds" to the moors. When yall added Osgiliath it was a nice change of scenery but turned into hold the bridge fights and got boring quick. On the same aspect a freep below lvl 140 going to the moors and scaling up is much weaker than a true 140 especially before gettign PVMP gear. You could add back places like Osgiliath, and new ones like Mordor that are scalable to lower level freeps , say lvl 50,75,100,115,120 . Where people say 116-120 go to the zone that is designated as the 120 zone and are only scaled to 120. Then on the creep side make it accessible to creeps of lower ranks that would be better match group. Say rank 1 creeps can go to the lvl 50 area , Rank 2 to the 75 area etc. This gives more options for PVMP , more ways to level creeps , New experiences and strategies and encourages freeps and creeps to role new toons for PVMP and SLOTRO players the chance to PVMP at there level cap.

    6) PVMP event weekends - Have special weekends like you do with bonus xp for PVE but for PVMP. Can expand on this with special titles, cosmetics etc as you did with the PVMP server event. Things like this weekend earn 10% more commendations and infamy- weekend only deed kill 100 enemies at TA to get special title and cloak defender of TA . Kill x amount of hobbits to get title Bane of the shire etc . This would draw more people out to the moors during that time ( would want to fix some of the lag out in moors first or it will scare people away ) and would even play in with the first idea as kinships could plan kinship events and you could have a special cloak or title for claiming , holding and upgrading outpost / keeps etc for the kinship/tribe that does so.

    7) Cross server PVMP- This one may be hard to accomplish programing side. Look at the servers and pair them up. Take the biggest PVMP server match it with the smallest, second largest with second smallest etc and Merge the Ettenmoors only on those servers so they can play together there. Will have to do things like disable trading im sure to prevent people from using this as a way to trade items cross severs etc but good way to add number and meet more players . This could also be done for the battle grounds mentioned above or just wiht them etc

    Just some ideas for now. Some may like them some may hate them but hope the help bring out more ideas to improve the moors and overall PVP experince for both sides.
    Last edited by Eddrick; May 18 2022 at 11:28 AM.

  5. #180
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by SSG_Orion View Post
    Let’s Discuss Monster Play

    Camp Relocation – Orc and Elf

    Tol Ascarnen is the central fort and what should be the main battle location in the Ettenmoors. The EC and OC camps were crucial fallback and push positions that actively contributed to the battle space. I am considering moving these camps back to0 their original locations.
    I think this will certainly move the action back to the center of the map mainly. Such things as GV and Grams camping never, or rarely happened, before they were moved to new spots so putting them back again could work.
    “It needs but one foe to breed a war, and those who have not swords can still die upon them.”

  6. #181

    Ok First thing is First. Thank You!

    Orion first of all I have net had a chance to say welcome back. To fix the moors first thing that needs to be done is to fix the 35000 foot level issues before looking at the minute details of each class, character, armor, etc...

    -Lag, No this is a game wide issue but IMHO you can have a great creep vs Freep Raid (24 vs 24) while rubber banding and not know if your alive or dead. If this can't be fixed I think it's a waste to go on. Most fun and productive are large battles.
    -Cheating, Now while everyone don't cheat, there are many that do. And when you see a rank 6 Creep Rank 12 in a really short time, somethings wrong. I know in the past not much was done to people farming rank.
    -PVE ranking, Not to eleminate all infamy from PVE but Once upon a time you earned your rank from defeating the other players. Not turn the map blue and come back in a few hours and turn it blue again and just questing. Don't we do that already on the non monster play mode? Maybe PVE points from stopping the others from taking keeps OP's etc.
    -Getting people out there, Coming up with a way to get FTP people out there which would boost store puchases of items to benefit players. (tomes, boosts, fall immunity etc). Maybe a Moors sub thats a few bucks a month or FTP gets a week access to try the moors etc..
    -Imbalance the creeps and Freeps, Not even by class just in general. sides need to be even end of story. I don't care how many raids you ran to get your UBER gear tough. The moors is not a Target practice field for the Raiders. Lets all go back to skill with fighting.
    -Class fixing. Creep and Freep should have similar class equality. Minstrel/Defiler, Champ/Reaver. No super classes because you were not nerfed yet. I have seen defilers fight 6+ and heal through it no problem.

    If you have equal sides you wont need to nerf classes because they became OP.

    Make the rewards count toward something from chests, Delving and OP buffs that make difference so the only way you can get advantage is to take the OP's and if you don't like it stop they form doing it. It's all geared to initiate PVP.

    Know who is giving you input to these new fixes. Look back and see if they had a creep/freep gain 5 ranks in a week etc. Look seriously at people who might have bought up blatent cheating proof and nothing was done about it.

    well much more I can say but for now think you have to start at the top. I am sure while this is getting fixed it will get worse before it gets better.

    Good Luck

    QuasiMoeDough Rank 7 Reaver / Bigesthulagoober Rank 7 BA/ Scoobydie Rank 7 Warg / DEADHEALZ Rank 1 Defiler / Silkskinner Rank 2 Weaver
    Saeldonnarain 75 Minnie / Bighulagoober 75 Hunter / Amnoahdad 57 RK / Littlelebeau 25 Burg

    Gigady, Gigady!!!

  7. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by SSG_Orion View Post

    Healing Modifiers

    Healing prolongs battles and undermines the competitive nature of fights. There is no silver bullet in “fixing” this. My intent would be applying an Ettenmoors only effect that reduces the incoming healing to drive combats to a swifter conclusion. Dynamic implementation allows us to modify this effect without waiting for a patch to make the change.

    Should this prove successful, we will look at how this style of effect modifier can address other imbalances we know exist in the moment-to-moment experiences.
    I would push back on this a bit. Currently, the best fights that happen in the Moors are the extended, group (8+ vs. 8+) battles. I've had some battles last 15-20 minutes straight before one side completely wipes. These battles are currently happening right now, so this isn't referring to fights from years ago. They are some of the funnest I've had in the game, and I've been playing since Beta. And constant, continuous healing and rezzing are the biggest reason why these fights last so long. People are dying in the battle on both sides, but it isn't a full wipe, so they are able to be rezzed or come back from the rez circle and get back in the battle. There is a huge strategy in those battles in finding out who are the healers, who are the rezzers, and how do we take them out of the fight. So just because there is a lot of healing/rezzing going on in a battle, doesn't mean it undermines the competitive nature of the fight. I think it actually adds a more competitive nature to the fight, making you adjust your strategy accordingly.

    The issue becomes when one side has too many healers and it becomes a stalemate between the two sides, nobody can kill each other, or one side is constantly getting steam rolled. Currently, how our server is handling this, is we communicate on Discord between both sides and manually adjust classes/numbers to try and balance it out. So on creepside, we might switch off our healing class and go to a DPS class. Or a couple people might switch to the otherside. It's not optimal, but it does help.

    The worst part about the Moors, is running around the map trying to find the next battle. And the shorter the battles are, the more you end up either running back to the battle or running around trying to find the next battle. If there was constant action all around the map like there used to be, shorter, swifter fights might make sense, but that just isn't the case. At least not on Landroval.

    And Welcome Back.
    Last edited by Pusher; May 18 2022 at 01:39 PM.
    Darkrain / Ghostdog / Bettyford
    Pouncing Pwny - Landroval

  8. #183
    Join Date
    May 2010
    I will keep my skepticism and opinions in a box for the moment.

    Camping - orc/elf
    Review - Camping- orc/elf

    • Bad!
    • It is a great idea to orientate the combat in the central area.
    • I consider it bad because no optimizations were made on the map, animations, classes.

    Question -Camping - orc/elf

    • Return the Feature "capture the flag"?
    • The old camp had a format for combat, is it in the plans to return to its old format and functions?
    • The TA bridge checkpoints (east and south) caused a hold up to the combat flow at that time.Plans to return?
    • Decreasing the size of raids to 12 people could improve the quality of combat.Is there a possibility to reduce the maximum group size from RAID24 to RAID12 at Moors?
    • Around TA, the river allowed low mobility (deep water). The relief of the region was very steep and favored the use of bridges. Do you intend to go back to the old map format?

    Thedelving of Frór
    Review - Thedelving of Frór
    - Good!
    - Great for theregion and rewards long term PVE endgame players.
    - I don't likethe idea of limiting access.
    - A concept thatmade sense in the past.

    Questions - Thedelving of Frór -

    • What are the items for creep players?
    • When killing bosses the allied faction gets a 6 hour buff (4 times a day), is there a possibility to decrease it to 4 hours (6 times a day)?
    • Will the NPCs in this region be revitalized and updated according to their lore?

    Restorecolfells outpost
    Feedback -Restoring the colfells outpost
    - Bad!
    - If the goal isto make the combat centralized, returning the map to such a remotelocation near Glân Vraig is a bad idea.
    - I am againstrestoring this outpost, as it would add value to the wood region.
    - Putting theoutpost in this area will directly favor the freeps. It will alwaysguarantee a tower in the war.

    Question -Outpost control?

    • Return ability to summon faction allies using outpost bugle?
    • Return of pre determined formation to invade outposts? //small/felloship
    • The outposts will return to neutral (morroval, trolls, undead) with each daily reset?

    Review - AddingCorruptions
    - Bad!
    - I am againstadding more corruptions.
    - Spending timeand resource on a temporary measure is a waste of time and resource.It has not worked in the past and will not work now.

    Keepand tower revision
    Review - Keep andtower revision
    - Very good!
    - Decreasing theamount of npcs.
    - Increasing thedifficulty is great news.
    - I am in favorof removing any excesses that do not add anything to the gameplay.
    Question - Keepand tower revision
    - Return ofspecific type to invade fortresses? //LUG and TR (12/6 man), TA(12/24man)
    - Return ofsiege weapons (Boiling Oil)?
    - Return ofTraps (Darts) at the entrance of the main gates of TR?
    - Return ofneutral TA bosses?
    - Return of thedefenders of the East and South bridges of TA?
    - Return of thecontrol points to access the tower leaders' rooms?

    - Many of thechanges make sense at first glance.
    - The measuresoffered are no different from those made by Vastin or Fantus.
    - The structuralproblems are never addressed, so the solutions presented are onlycompensatory.
    - They makesense in a maintenance/player retention/monetization context.
    - I don't seeany real change for the future of the game.

    - How do youwant more players if you don't provide access to new players?
    - When will youallow free players to access the game without time restrictions?
    - When will youmake all creep classes free?

  9. #184


    Here are some things i think would help for a better experience for all and some bugs too.

    I think its great you are thinking about putting back ec/oc back to the sides of map they were on. Except maybe don't put ec right on the lag line again. And please use the old camps, as the new ones are deathtraps with only one entrance/exit once in combat. The old ones you could escape from the sides which was great if you were being hunted by larger numbers. Also consider having crude ta map inside OC again. I think this would make it so you have a forward outpost near to your home spawn. So there is a better chance of either side having a place to go rather than promoting the zerg and staying at the home base till more team mates arrive.

    Make quests matter again, so people move out on the map and roam more. Incentive to not clump, which will make things less laggy and more fun for smaller groups and solo artists.

    Last time we had some work done on pvmp, our brands and prepots got nerfed from 10sec to 5 sec cc immunity. Which is not really much when you consider the current lag, so i'd sugest a 10sec immunity to come back. Also there is some cc that is ignored by the brand which should be included in the immunity, please look into that aswell.

    Raid marks like moon/sun/redskull is not working on warg and have not the past 2 years or so. It works fine on any other class Burglar included. I hope this is not racism. ????

    Please have a look at map inductions bar texts, some does not say using secret path(specificly the grams map 1m cd.) But rather where you are going, which is not preferable when there is as many freeps spying as there is(freeps with an alt account with a creep logged in standing at grams monitoring where we go and our ooc chat. And yes there is quite a few).

    At the moment it takes 1 freep 10 seconds to flip an outpost, while it takes 2-3 creeps 1-2 minutes to flip an outpost. This need balance IF the outposts are keeping their damage buffs.

    Please consider removing the Damage buffs from the outposts, as it just turns into an endless pve battle to try and keep your output. Which honestly sucks out alot of the fun. I'm all for them having a meaning, like you said maybe you need 2 outposts to have delving access for exsample.

  10. #185


    The range of the creeps 1 shots, are lower than some freeps range. Resulting in people getting shot dead in the res.

    Warg Melee range did not get a buff while reaver and freep melee range did. Hope these are not intentional either.

  11. #186
    I dont know if anyone else brought it up and i may have missed it but

    multiboxing in PvMP is lame.

    I doubt theres anything you can do about it, but to allow that in a pvp environment is kind of dumb.

    Mortem Tyrannis

  12. #187
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Star Wars: The Old Republic actually did some good things with instanced PvP. Highly suggest looking into leveling out players to have the same level and stats. Makes it more viable for lower-level players to participate (who maybe get a slight buff to compensate for having less powerful skills or traits or vice-versa).

  13. #188

    PvMp needs a major rehaul

    The current pvmp system problem from the start was that it was designed as a alternative end game content. Since the implementation to the LI system, creeps tend to get a lower hand on freeps. Therefore the common stratagy is to "zerg" in order to get any meaningful results in a fight. Since then it has become a shuffle fest of "Balancing" freeps and creeps.

    Here is some changes that I would suggest to fix the current pvmp:
    1. First and foremost is the performance issues. If this is not done first then other changes to the pvmp will be pointless. Ideally two to four full raids in a close proximity without crashing the server will be great. This includes removing mounts/cosmetic pets in the pvmp zones and removing unnecessary terrain/nps that may cause performance issues.
    2. Creeps/Freeps need a major changes. Creeps having a handful of skills at rank 1 will always be squished by a freep at rank 1 in layman terms. Since the current cap is at 140, freeps will have skill/combos/rotations that turn low rank creeps into a pile of goo in seconds flat. Ideally a creep is a dark mirror of a freep class. Wargs = Burglars, Blackarrows = Hunters and so forth.
    3. Give creeps a trait system similar to the freeps. Going up in a rank will grant the creep skill points to progress and enhance the abilities.
    4. Revert the cap to level 50. Freeps will scale down to the max stats of a level 50 character. This way low level players can enjoy the fun and not be subjected to the terrible level scaling currently.
    5. Siege warfare: Add siege equipment such as battering rams and a door to all the keeps. That way it prevents zerging in a fort.
    6. A new creep class: The freeps have four new classes to play with since the Shadow of Angmar. A new creep class would do wonders.
    7. Insensitive players: new or updated rewards. More exclusive titles and cosmetics for both freep and creeps.
    8. Make creep classes free to all players.

    These are Ideas and suggestions. I really don't expect any at all to be implemented at some fashion. I am really hopeful that some changes will come soon. Right now pvmp is dead on my server and I really don't want to regrind/transfer on a new server.


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