@Scenario RE- The Angle and Eregion

[Phantion]

Hi Scenario

I have to say: I've loved and really enjoyed wandering around the Trollshaws / Lone-Lands borders, catching what few glimpses I can of the new Angle region. It's been a lot of fun on BR and on Live watching the landscape slowly change from those vantage points.

I really love that you are expanding Harloeg up to the Hoarwell River (Yes, I'm a LOTRO travel maven and an absolute fan of the worldbuilding this game does!).

Now, one of the things I'm really - hoping - you'll consider doing as part of "the Angle" is, well, that missing chunk of Eregion that's in between current Eregion and the Angle - "West Eregion," sort to speak. You can use those hilly-mountains by Mirobel as a border.

Part of me wishes you'd clear-up the Mirobel region in particular. I've never liked it that the world landscape version of Tham Mirdain is perpetually sealed-off behind a Volume I instance wall; I can't tell you how much I'd love it if there was an open landscape version and perhaps some different portal / clicky-object mechanism to do the Volume I quest.

That would then allow you to use the hilly-mountains and the Ring-Forge area as the southwestern borders of Eregion (*until, perhaps, the Greenway north of Enedwaith appears in-game later with, I'd assume, Tharbad, etc.).

Those hills / mountains could then border "West Eregion" to the bottom corner of the Angle.

Now, here's another idea I'd love to throw your way:

"Mirobel," of course, is in lieu of Celebrimbor's Capital City from the Lore. But the scaling of Mirobel in-game makes it look like it was no larger than Celondim- and, frankly, Eregion was populated enough that, when I compare the Eregion ruins with say Fornost, or Dol Amroth, or Pelargir, or even Minas Tirith, I really find them..... lacking now. They haven't aged very well since they were made in an era long before city-building became "a thing" in LOTRO.

So, my first thought: Please consider, at some point, expanding those ruins, perhaps by using West Eregion right beyond where the Sirannon and Glanduin Rivers meet- and considering it "Noldor suburbs", hehe Having an open-world version of Tham Mirdain would be cool for helping with this quite a bit (*I can imagine concerts held in front of the Antheron mural on Landroval, for example- there's lots of potential there for a game-world, non-instanced version of that neck of the woods).

If Second Age Eregion was ever a possibility as a "Tales of Yore" area- the expanded ruins of Mirobel / Tham Mirdain could be "built" with that in mind- almost a ruined outline of what could become the first fully-fledged out High Elven City ever made in-game, and "Tales of Yore" would definitely be the mechanism, I think, to use to tell those stories.

West Eregion could probably have some more Barad Morlas / Gwingris-style towns spread-out- furthering the Elven ruins theme you have going-on in parts of the Angle as I've seen from a distance.

This would also allow players to straddle the Bruinen quite a lot more- at least from the Fords in Trollshaws down to where it meets the Hoarwell to become the Gwaithlo.

I remember, when you did your fantastic stream on "A Casual Stroll through Eregion," you had talked about wanting to really revisit the area. I think this would be a prime opportunity to do so in order to make sure the new Angle region is contiguous with Eregion and to also "set up," perhaps, any potential future plans for the area further down the road.

It's definitely one of my favorite regions in the game- and I'm already enjoying what glimpses I can see of the Angle and am looking forward to exploring it proper when it appears on BR for formal testing. Many kudos to you on all the awesome new housing changes, the new ambient environments in Rohan and Gondor (*am really hoping the indoor ambient lighting can appear in Gondor too!), and am very excited for Erebor! Thank you, Scenario! Thanks for listening!

Cheers!

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

Hi Scenario

I have to say: I've loved and really enjoyed wandering around the Trollshaws / Lone-Lands borders, catching what few glimpses I can of the new Angle region. It's been a lot of fun on BR and on Live watching the landscape slowly change from those vantage points.

I really love that you are expanding Harloeg up to the Hoarwell River (Yes, I'm a LOTRO travel maven and an absolute fan of the worldbuilding this game does!).

Now, one of the things I'm really - hoping - you'll consider doing as part of "the Angle" is, well, that missing chunk of Eregion that's in between current Eregion and the Angle - "West Eregion," sort to speak. You can use those hilly-mountains by Mirobel as a border.

Part of me wishes you'd clear-up the Mirobel region in particular. I've never liked it that the world landscape version of Tham Mirdain is perpetually sealed-off behind a Volume I instance wall; I can't tell you how much I'd love it if there was an open landscape version and perhaps some different portal / clicky-object mechanism to do the Volume I quest.

That would then allow you to use the hilly-mountains and the Ring-Forge area as the southwestern borders of Eregion (*until, perhaps, the Greenway north of Enedwaith appears in-game later with, I'd assume, Tharbad, etc.).

Those hills / mountains could then border "West Eregion" to the bottom corner of the Angle.

Now, here's another idea I'd love to throw your way:

"Mirobel," of course, is in lieu of Celebrimbor's Capital City from the Lore. But the scaling of Mirobel in-game makes it look like it was no larger than Celondim- and, frankly, Eregion was populated enough that, when I compare the Eregion ruins with say Fornost, or Dol Amroth, or Pelargir, or even Minas Tirith, I really find them..... lacking now. They haven't aged very well since they were made in an era long before city-building became "a thing" in LOTRO.

So, my first thought: Please consider, at some point, expanding those ruins, perhaps by using West Eregion right beyond where the Sirannon and Glanduin Rivers meet- and considering it "Noldor suburbs", hehe Having an open-world version of Tham Mirdain would be cool for helping with this quite a bit (*I can imagine concerts held in front of the Antheron mural on Landroval, for example- there's lots of potential there for a game-world, non-instanced version of that neck of the woods).

If Second Age Eregion was ever a possibility as a "Tales of Yore" area- the expanded ruins of Mirobel / Tham Mirdain could be "built" with that in mind- almost a ruined outline of what could become the first fully-fledged out High Elven City ever made in-game, and "Tales of Yore" would definitely be the mechanism, I think, to use to tell those stories.

West Eregion could probably have some more Barad Morlas / Gwingris-style towns spread-out- furthering the Elven ruins theme you have going-on in parts of the Angle as I've seen from a distance.

This would also allow players to straddle the Bruinen quite a lot more- at least from the Fords in Trollshaws down to where it meets the Hoarwell to become the Gwaithlo.

I remember, when you did your fantastic stream on "A Casual Stroll through Eregion," you had talked about wanting to really revisit the area. I think this would be a prime opportunity to do so in order to make sure the new Angle region is contiguous with Eregion and to also "set up," perhaps, any potential future plans for the area further down the road.

It's definitely one of my favorite regions in the game- and I'm already enjoying what glimpses I can see of the Angle and am looking forward to exploring it proper when it appears on BR for formal testing. Many kudos to you on all the awesome new housing changes, the new ambient environments in Rohan and Gondor (*am really hoping the indoor ambient lighting can appear in Gondor too!), and am very excited for Erebor! Thank you, Scenario! Thanks for listening!

Cheers!

Totally yes to everything said here. In particular:

- It would be odd to add in the Angle without having the 'Western Eregion' area, as Phantion describes it, connected up. I know it is a relatively large chunk of landscape, but if not made accessible it would become like the hills in the middle of Bree-land, the Shire and Angmar that weren't previously accessible and seemed pretty arbitrary, and which such a good job was done of getting rid of over the last few years. Please make this region accessible alongside the Angle!

- I agree with the points on Mirobel, although I can see any updates here being something which waits for a future update, alongside a Tales of Yore Eregion zone (as with Nanduhirion). It could then be weaved into the Greenway/Tharbad zone as the world expands that way.

[Scenario]

There is no current plans to directly connect Eregion to The Angle (outside of, you know, jumping off the cliff near Gwingris down into The Angle - I am not responsible if you do that and find yourself at a defeat circle). Much of the existing border between those areas are sheer cliff face - and the portions that aren't actually have a decent amount of landscape that would need to be built to support it to our current standards. The Swanfleet (as I am calling it, at least) is an area that we've talked about as another connective space to further fill out the world, but it is not currently on our schedules fill in.

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

There is no current plans to directly connect Eregion to The Angle (outside of, you know, jumping off the cliff near Gwingris down into The Angle - I am not responsible if you do that and find yourself at a defeat circle). Much of the existing border between those areas are sheer cliff face - and the portions that aren't actually have a decent amount of landscape that would need to be built to support it to our current standards. The Swanfleet (as I am calling it, at least) is an area that we've talked about as another connective space to further fill out the world, but it is not currently on our schedules fill in.

Having not yet seen the size of the Angle, I suppose that this makes sense - if it is literally the area between the Bruinen and the Hoarwell, then there’s quite the distance to Eregion, based on the LOTRO Google Map. A Swanfleet region in the future would be cool, although I was having some trouble locating where it would be between one of Tolkien’s maps of Eriador and the LOTRO Google Map, as the latter has all three rivers meet at the same place, whereas Tolkien has the Glanduin joining the Hoarwell (by this point with the Bruinen incorporated) far further south, next to where Tharbad would be.

Tolkien map: http://henneth-annun.net/img/resourc...ap-Tharbad.jpg
LOTRO Google Map: http://lotromap.net/terrainmap/google.html

Also, the more recent map, which doesn’t seem to fit with the current geography of the Glanduin in LOTRO, unless it curves south past Echad Mirobel: https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/File:Eriador_map.jpg

I suppose my question is - which one fits the geography of LOTRO, or is it just a result of the need to condense the world, based on the fact that LOTRO is a game?

[miriadel]

There is no current plans to directly connect Eregion to The Angle (outside of, you know, jumping off the cliff near Gwingris down into The Angle - I am not responsible if you do that and find yourself at a defeat circle). Much of the existing border between those areas are sheer cliff face - and the portions that aren't actually have a decent amount of landscape that would need to be built to support it to our current standards. The Swanfleet (as I am calling it, at least) is an area that we've talked about as another connective space to further fill out the world, but it is not currently on our schedules fill in.

I am just one player among many, but i'll say, that if an area like swanfleet is added to the game, I'd be a very, very happy player

[Scenario]

Having not yet seen the size of the Angle, I suppose that this makes sense - if it is literally the area between the Bruinen and the Hoarwell, then there’s quite the distance to Eregion, based on the LOTRO Google Map. A Swanfleet region in the future would be cool, although I was having some trouble locating where it would be between one of Tolkien’s maps of Eriador and the LOTRO Google Map, as the latter has all three rivers meet at the same place, whereas Tolkien has the Glanduin joining the Hoarwell (by this point with the Bruinen incorporated) far further south, next to where Tharbad would be.

Tolkien map: http://henneth-annun.net/img/resourc...ap-Tharbad.jpg
LOTRO Google Map: http://lotromap.net/terrainmap/google.html

Also, the more recent map, which doesn’t seem to fit with the current geography of the Glanduin in LOTRO, unless it curves south past Echad Mirobel: https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/File:Eriador_map.jpg

I suppose my question is - which one fits the geography of LOTRO, or is it just a result of the need to condense the world, based on the fact that LOTRO is a game?

The Angle is the wedge between the Hoarwell and the Bruinen. The lands south of the Bruinen beyond that are not considered a part of the Angle.

[Hallandil]

Having not yet seen the size of the Angle, I suppose that this makes sense - if it is literally the area between the Bruinen and the Hoarwell, then there’s quite the distance to Eregion, based on the LOTRO Google Map. A Swanfleet region in the future would be cool, although I was having some trouble locating where it would be between one of Tolkien’s maps of Eriador and the LOTRO Google Map, as the latter has all three rivers meet at the same place, whereas Tolkien has the Glanduin joining the Hoarwell (by this point with the Bruinen incorporated) far further south, next to where Tharbad would be.

Tolkien map: http://henneth-annun.net/img/resourc...ap-Tharbad.jpg
LOTRO Google Map: http://lotromap.net/terrainmap/google.html

Also, the more recent map, which doesn’t seem to fit with the current geography of the Glanduin in LOTRO, unless it curves south past Echad Mirobel: https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/File:Eriador_map.jpg

I suppose my question is - which one fits the geography of LOTRO, or is it just a result of the need to condense the world, based on the fact that LOTRO is a game?

Judging from the added space that could be seen on the last Bullroarer build (As Scenario has said above, the zone is both visible and accessible from near Gwingris, granted the zone was locked from the last build).



Rough outline for the world map vs Tolkien mapping where the Angle is actually located- with Swanfleet being the adjoining area in orange.

For your question regarding Old vs New maps, you have to remember how wide Eregion and Dunland actually are as zones, hence the large distance between the Bruinen and the Misty Mountains.



Above is the zone's location on the current in-game Eregion map.

[Marancil]

Judging from the added space that could be seen on the last Bullroarer build (As Scenario has said above, the zone is both visible and accessible from near Gwingris, granted the zone was locked from the last build).

In my opinion, and posted last time we talked about this, from above maps, Swanfleet should be included in the World. I mean, why not? As Phantion says, many of us are explorers, looking for that hidden crevasse or hard to get mountain top. The game has a lot to give in that aspect and even more potential exploring should be possible. It can't be a steep cliff all the way?

[Galuhad]

Personally, I would love to see The Greenway added in, filling the gap from Bree-land to Dunland - which I suppose would also include Swanfleet.

[Snowlock]

I wonder why the Glanduin is out of position in the lotro version. It should be the southern border of swanfleet, but in the lotro map it looks too high up, and making the swanfleet area between the Glad and Bruinen much smaller.

[Scenario]

We do the best we can to represent the scale of the world in game based on the maps we have available. That said, sometimes those scales get compressed (the Shire) or decompressed (Eregion) in order to achieve a certain goal with the space from a game development standpoint. In the case of the Shire, its very compressed because we wanted to make sure we represented a good swath of Shire life at a smaller scale that was (at the time) more manageable to develop and that wouldn't frustrate new players just looking to explore Middle-earth. In the case of Eregion, we wanted to make that region feel abandoned and lonely and the implementation of the scrublands slowly sweeping up to the mountains was how we achieved that (along with experimenting with some of the lowest impassable boundaries and more detailed far terrain than we had done to date."

Also - regarding the Glanduin, the portions of it that are playable end at about the midway point between the mountains and the Hoarwell. For areas that are represented in the map but not yet available in game, take any map markers there as a "best guess" for how that landscape would exist and expect that it may change once that area is introduced to the game proper.

[auximenes]

We do the best we can to represent the scale of the world in game based on the maps we have available.

Thanks for the discussion. I really enjoy hearing about the design and development of the game.

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

We do the best we can to represent the scale of the world in game based on the maps we have available. That said, sometimes those scales get compressed (the Shire) or decompressed (Eregion) in order to achieve a certain goal with the space from a game development standpoint. In the case of the Shire, its very compressed because we wanted to make sure we represented a good swath of Shire life at a smaller scale that was (at the time) more manageable to develop and that wouldn't frustrate new players just looking to explore Middle-earth. In the case of Eregion, we wanted to make that region feel abandoned and lonely and the implementation of the scrublands slowly sweeping up to the mountains was how we achieved that (along with experimenting with some of the lowest impassable boundaries and more detailed far terrain than we had done to date."

Also - regarding the Glanduin, the portions of it that are playable end at about the midway point between the mountains and the Hoarwell. For areas that are represented in the map but not yet available in game, take any map markers there as a "best guess" for how that landscape would exist and expect that it may change once that area is introduced to the game proper.

Thanks for the clarification on both of these things - it is really interesting to know more about it! Thanks also to the posters who included the maps - that makes sense.

Although I know both aren’t coming yet, I’m excited for these new zones - and perhaps they might lead to an expanded Second Age Eregion at some point in the future, or a greatly expanded Echad Mirobel, once Swanfleet appears, to represent Celebrimbor’s capital?

[Snowlock]

Thanks for the clarification on both of these things - it is really interesting to know more about it! Thanks also to the posters who included the maps - that makes sense.

Although I know both aren’t coming yet, I’m excited for these new zones - and perhaps they might lead to an expanded Second Age Eregion at some point in the future, or a greatly expanded Echad Mirobel, once Swanfleet appears, to represent Celebrimbor’s capital?

Agreed on both points.

I've been dying to get into southern Eriador for like forever, ever since encountering the gate across the Greenway at Southguard. I know the Angle is far them there, but it's a good start!

A request if we ever get to the point where the entire landscape surrounding the North South road from Fornost to Isengard is actually opened, can you find a way to allow us to go through that portion of it in Dunland currently blocked by Wulf's Cleft? It would be awesome to ride that whole road some day.

[Aleziana]

I m really exited for the new region i always be for every world additions. BUT, i was really hoping for another connection to Eregion but unfortunately wont happen anytime soon. So according to "guesses" next year we gonna get another small update like wildwood/Angels so 2023's update will be this "Swanfleet"? If so, i have some questions here:
Isn't this small updates purpose to fill the gabs between existing playable areas just like Wildwood did in the first place? (Angles also seems to be a filled gap area for possible futured areas but currently Angles doesnt fill any gap) So Swanfleet also doesn't seem to fill any gab and it feels more like adding a knew whole quest pack size region. So why to waste such an area for just wildwood/Angles sized region pack?
Why not fill next year some actual gabs in the existing world like the region between lone-lands and North Downs? or the area among forochel-Angmar or Forochel- Frostbluff ? or the Area between Lorien-Fangorn? or even connect Ered luin with Shire.

I mean Swanfleet is ok but doesn't really feel like it needs to be wasted for Wildwood/Angles's sized update but instead for actual full quest pack size.

[itshuntah31]

I m really exited for the new region i always be for every world additions. BUT, i was really hoping for another connection to Eregion but unfortunately wont happen anytime soon. So according to "guesses" next year we gonna get another small update like wildwood/Angels so 2023's update will be this "Swanfleet"? If so, i have some questions here:
Isn't this small updates purpose to fill the gabs between existing playable areas just like Wildwood did in the first place? (Angles also seems to be a filled gap area for possible futured areas but currently Angles doesnt fill any gap) So Swanfleet also doesn't seem to fill any gab and it feels more like adding a knew whole quest pack size region. So why to waste such an area for just wildwood/Angles sized region pack?
Why not fill next year some actual gabs in the existing world like the region between lone-lands and North Downs? or the area among forochel-Angmar or Forochel- Frostbluff ? or the Area between Lorien-Fangorn? or even connect Ered luin with Shire.

I mean Swanfleet is ok but doesn't really feel like it needs to be wasted for Wildwood/Angles's sized update but instead for actual full quest pack size.

I don't think Swanfleet is actually on the schedule for next year, Scenario said its on the table but there aren't any solid plans yet. I'm also guessing that after the large amount of landscape we got in Gundabad, a smaller region like the Angle would be more manageable for the dev team than immediately jumping into a full sized zone. I'm assuming we will get another larger zone later in the year (I'm hoping for Dorwinion or Southern Gondor personally).

[Phantion]

We do the best we can to represent the scale of the world in game based on the maps we have available. That said, sometimes those scales get compressed (the Shire) or decompressed (Eregion) in order to achieve a certain goal with the space from a game development standpoint. In the case of the Shire, its very compressed because we wanted to make sure we represented a good swath of Shire life at a smaller scale that was (at the time) more manageable to develop and that wouldn't frustrate new players just looking to explore Middle-earth. In the case of Eregion, we wanted to make that region feel abandoned and lonely and the implementation of the scrublands slowly sweeping up to the mountains was how we achieved that (along with experimenting with some of the lowest impassable boundaries and more detailed far terrain than we had done to date."

Also - regarding the Glanduin, the portions of it that are playable end at about the midway point between the mountains and the Hoarwell. For areas that are represented in the map but not yet available in game, take any map markers there as a "best guess" for how that landscape would exist and expect that it may change once that area is introduced to the game proper.

Thank you so, so, so much for your wonderful insights I greatly enjoy reading them! Here's hoping that, someday, eventually, the borders between Eregion and adjacent western regions can be smoothed-out later on

---

RE- Tales of Yore Eregion. Ok. Here's my pitch, even if it is too late in the developmental cycle at this point; it's just fun to write it out and put these kinds of ideas into circulation out of sheer enthusiasm for the game and it's world-building:

When Rohan launched, and "The Hobbit" movies first came into theaters, there were some earnest efforts to try to "ride 'The Hobbit' wave" with some content. That content became the Erebor instance cluster with mixed results; it wasn't very Rohan themed, and while it was cool to see the first versions of Dale and Erebor, it felt incongruous to many players from what I remember.

This was because, I think, due to the fact that the Story and the "Hobbit" content were in very different places, and so much work had been put into the planning and development phases of the Rohan content that there was no real room to "hit the pause button" and do something more in parallel with the cultural hype other than the instance cluster.

---

So, here's my point: SSG would be very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very (I think that's all Nine Rings' worth of very's) foolish not to actively attempt to develop content that is "themed" in a similar, parallel way to the cultural hype, which we will see from Amazon's forthcoming TV series set in the Second Age. Further, now that we've had quite some time with Dwarves, returning Sauron to the forefront as the main villain would be very helpful, and Tales of Yore has proven we no longer need the Ring's destruction to be an outright barrier to this. What was it Luke Skywalker said? "No one's ever really gone"? Muhahahaha! *Laughs* hope that gave a chuckle!

We don't know the details; we know, from a certain image they released, that some Elven history is involved and so on. But my point is: of all the times for a Tales of Yore region before the Fall of Sauron, set into whatever rights SSG has to adapt any Second Age material based on the LOTR books, having LOTRO's own version of Second Age-set content would be a very recommended move, and by this, I do not mean by repeating the same mistakes that were made with Rohan:

In Rohan, it was very clear that the Erebor "Road to the Lonely Mountain" stuff was ancillary to the main content. It was an "aside," a nod or an acknowledgement to "The Hobbit" movies, but it wasn't at all much related to the main content developed for the game at that time and in that moment.

I'm basically saying: it would be wonderful if SSG could consider actively making an SA-themed "Tales of Yore" region or otherwise "core content" be --- the showcase --- to thematically launch later in the year around the same time as the Amazon TV series does, bringing the themes together, allowing for LOTRO to participate in the hype much more directly rather than as an aside nod.

My favorite parts of Black Book, for example, were from where they started "delving deep" into the gaps in Sauron's own story. With LOTRO, I'd say Eregion is really the best option there for several reasons:

1- Numenor is probably more dodgy rights-wise- and I was very impressed with how, at least, Tarandil's story was handled in "Mordor Besieged," etc. But I'd certainly "get it" if a Tales of Yore Numenor region really couldn't enter the game for various legal reasons.

2- But with Eregion, you literally already have the zone there, as with Nanduhirion / Dimrill Dale. Even if the Volume 1 Tham Mirdain gating situation can't be easily uprooted, there might be other creative ways to get around that (*1 being to simply have an "open world, alternative public instanced version of Tham Mirdain / Ring-Forges" players could have a different means to "port into" apart from the Volume I instance, and the other by having a Tales of Yore SA expanded Eregion with the current TA Eregion and its bounds updated to reflect those changes to the extent that they can be, not unlike the way Nanduhirion was updated to reflect the Azanulbizar Blood of Azog changes).

3- You also have a ton of game-lore to build from with that- with enough for it to be original to LOTRO versus, say, Amazon's stuff, while maintaining that overall same theme of, "Sauron's around in his heyday, and he's very very evil," etc. There's tons of............ things that Volume 1 suggests but doesn't really show us with Laerdan and Amarthiel and Antheron.

For example: Why does Narmelleth go off with Antheron over her own father? There's motivations to dig into; how did Antheron sway her? There's the actual, of course, forging of Narchuil that could be further explored --- and how Narmelleth had transformed into a certain someone else. What Black Book did for Mordirith ---> something else could do for Narmelleth, to similar great feats with in-game storytelling. There's also the question of........ how did "Laerdan of Lindon" end up in Eregion in the first place, as those who remained with Gil-galad and those who followed Celebrimbor tended to be of different factions. Did he want his daughter to stay in Lindon with him? Did she leave with Celebrimbor against her father's will, and did he then follow her out of devotion to his daughter? There's a lot to unpack in there with much interesting storytelling to be had! It's also, I think, firmly grounded enough in, well, the "LOTRO-verse" to stand on its own merit and really be its own thing.

But I'd definitely say it's an unfinished story worth telling some more about. There's also a huge oliphaunt in the room: and that's what Narmelleth's ultimate fate means in light of the Volume IV and Black Book / Minas Morgul storylines, and room to really unpack / "revise" the role that she played in LOTRO's tale-weaving in tandem with what was done with Mordirith in the latter volumes of the Epic / post-Epic storytelling. It's a path worth exploring that could also help bring some of the game's tale-weaving closer back toward it's roots, something I much appreciated with some of Gundabad's content, especially RE- Car Bronach

It's also something I do not think would necessarily need to wait for the Fellowship to return there in a "Homeward Bound" sense- that is, of course, unless players actually get an "inside window" into the hidden communications between Gandalf, Galadriel, Elrond, etc., about their shared pasts.

Anyways, see? Your magnificent world-building has my imagination on a roll Ty for listening

Cheers!

[auximenes]

I'm guessing The Angle will be a mini-zone like The Wildwood which is part of the Bree-land zone. It doesn't look large enough to warrant treating it like a full zone by itself.

[elvenes]

I'm guessing The Angle will be a mini-zone like The Wildwood which is part of the Bree-land zone. It doesn't look large enough to warrant treating it like a full zone by itself.

and despite this, we're gonna have to pay it 1.5k LP just like wildwood, I bid 5 on that

[Ayvri]

This is a really fascinating read - both players and @scenario, thank you all for sharing.

I really love the Wildwood - everything from the layout and the atmosphere through the quests, deeds, and hidden gems. I'm looking forward to seeing something similar but new with The Angle.

I wonder if there's any plans to add a new 15 - 25 area, as most players moving on from Ered Luin / the Shire, end up in Bree, and for most storylines that makes sense, but it would be a surely welcome break to have a smaller than Wildwood area to act as a refreshing alternative.

I also dream of South Farthing, seeing Pincup, Longbottom, and Willowbottom.

You are likely, but no less should be, truly proud of the immersive world you create.

[Laurelinarien]

I'm guessing The Angle will be a mini-zone like The Wildwood which is part of the Bree-land zone. It doesn't look large enough to warrant treating it like a full zone by itself.

Idk about that.. I've been riding around the area quite a lot and, sure it's not Gundabad, but it looks extense enough.

[Phantion]

I've very much enjoyed riding around the Angle in the recent Beta's.


So, one of the interesting things to me is that: You really - can - see Mirobel from the lower part of the Angle. In the previous beta, I was even able to spy parts of Hollin Ridge and the Burnt Tor on a clear day.

I guess I'm wondering this. I understand there are "no current plans" to connect these regions outside of that one little overlap with Glad Ereg beneath Gwingris. So, I guess I'm genuinely curious from a world-building development standpoint as to the intentions behind this.

@Scenario: Is it because the design is meant to try to keep Eregion feeling larger and more remote from the rest of the game-world? Or, would it be because, perhaps, down the line, there might be potential to expand Eregion itself in its own right as the Angle expands the Trollshaws now? Are there technical reasons around the Mirobel area that would prevent playability there?

I really enjoyed, for example, your updates to Nanduhirion / Dimrill Dale with Blood of Azog. None of it went unnoticed for me. In fact: it's a very.... moving experience to explore those ruins... - after - you've played-through Blood of Azog (*Tales of Yore SA Eregion, as I've said before, would be pretty awesome someday). When level 60, just popping out of Moria, you really wouldn't understand it if a new player: you'd get these fascinating ruins... but not their history. But once you play through that story: Wow....... you can really feel.... an amazing sense of, "All of this once happened here." It's pretty cathartic, actually!

I know you've already told us an extension of Eregion isn't included because that missing part of Eregion is ---perhaps--- large enough to be it's own "Wild-Wood" style area in it's own right, beyond the horizon of current plans of course, and I can see that now: it's a North Ithilien kind of region that's in between these areas in-game. Still, I'm very interested! It's been truly wonderful that you've let us "in the Angle" in earlier Betas so we can actually - watch - the world-building process unfold! It's so exciting to me! I love watching the layers and how it grows; it's very enjoyable to witness

Let me make 1 recommendation if I may if possible: Why not...... at least connect the Angle with Glad Ereg since there's already that overlap in the part of the Bruinen that's parallel with / below Gwingris. There's that one spot where the dry river that serves as Eregion's western border runs off where, presumably, a cascading waterfall used to be in yesteryear, cascading westward into the Bruinen, and it's directly south of Gwingris. Perhaps it would be possible to consider constructing another "upward landscape ramp" between that and Glad Ereg, making the water more shallow into a ford?

That way, you'd be able to climb up to Gwingris from the Tal Bruinen side and from the Angle side. I think that would make some sense- and then, following the road out to that cabin, you could have that road continue to the ford and up the pass to the southern side of Gwingris- in the part that's still technically playable territory but for that one cliff (*because, let's face it, having a paved road leading to a country cabin doesn't make much sense by itself, hehehe- it would make sense if that cabin was built on the site of what - used - to be Elven ruins that were demolished by the Enemy without a trace but for the road). There's just enough of a distance, I think, between the Echad Candelleth neck of the woods with Garbert's Cottage and that crossing and the spot I'm thinking of for the Ford to warrant making another path directly from playable-Angle to playable-Eregion where the two zones directly overlap.

Also, the pass itself could, in theory, be designed in a way similar to Dunharrow's. Maybe consider narrowing the Bruinen a little bit at that spot and having the path weave up and across and up and across in that kind of style, so you are literally scaling the cliff in that weaving, horizontal pattern.

The reason why I'm suggesting this is because Gwingris is really a prominent landscape feature of the eastern view from the northern Angle. If we put ourselves in the mindset of................. Second Age Eregion for a moment............ to me, it would make total sense for there to be some kind of a main Elven road climbing down from Gwingris directly to the Elven settlements of the Angle. It would also make sense for........... if we imagine that Sauron sacks Mirobel, takes-out Celebrimbor in the way he does, and pushes the Noldor northward, the Noldor could actually get hemmed-in at Gwingris and have to split to the closest passes in either direction. Those closest to Tal Bruinen would be Elrond and company retreating to what will become Rivendell. The other group would retreat across the Angle to those Elven ruins closer to the Lone-Lands and the Last Bridge......... and I won't spoil that amazing deed description written-in for those ruins. The Orcs could have cut-off the groups in the middle and sacked Gwingris in the process.

See? Your creativity has me on a roll again!

In fact, let me give these coordinates of what spots I'm thinking of in-game:

The bottom Angle area I am thinking of for a potential ford along the river- The Angle of Mitheithel: 40.9S, 17.5W; 40.9S, 17.7W

The equivalent Eregion coordinates where that pass could "land" upward into the dry river-bed- Glad Ereg: 41.2S, 17.3W OR 41.3S, 17.7W

My proposed road would lead directly south from Fernbrake Cot - 39.4S, 17.4W ---> to 40.9S, 17.5W and up the pass to 41.2S, 17.3W OR 41.3S, 17.7W --- and then simply skirt the cliffs to the southern entrance of Gwingris in Eregion.

Another great world-building analogy I have here is what you did back in Wildermore between Wildermore and Entwash Vale where there was that narrow pass scaling upward.

What do you think?

Oh- and I'd also want to put in a pitch for........ considering adding parallel Angle Stable-Masters to Gwingris, Echad Eregion, and Mirobel as swift-travel options - since, in the meantime, at least you could ride between the regions. Anyways, thank you for the enthusiasm- much appreciated either way

Cheers!