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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Oddessia View Post
    Motes are irrelevant for end-game players as you cannot get end game gear with motes. Only embers.
    That's not completely true. Cosmetics and housing items also have an appeal, even for endgame players. It's like a job. You work it for the paycheck. You want to use that paycheck not just to pay for the things you need, but the things you want. Otherwise, what's the point?

    Motes can also be really handy for gearing up alts. And they want you to roll alts as that helps keep you engaged in the game. Which means you'll end up spending yet more money. Especially if this is the sum total of this particular change to loot acquisition. And turning in motes for figments was a good way to get those cosmetics that come up from the vendor on a cycle. You do, after all, only have so long to get everything you want before the next cycle.
    Very nice. Very evil.

  2. #102
    Join Date
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    When I think about LotRO and SSG this is what comes to mind.

    "We're continuing to keep an eye on this, and appreciate your feedback, but please remember that the forums are a bubble within the community, and aren't representative of the wider community."

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...61#post8111861


    Just wanted you all know where you stand in SSG's opinion. The statement was a general reply and can't be taken out of context. It applies to anything LotRO.


    SSG needs to reverse this course now.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Oddessia View Post
    Motes are irrelevant for end-game players as you cannot get end game gear with motes. Only embers.

    Currently when an expansion comes and a level cap increase, all current gear changes to motes. That's totally fine since with a level increase we arent wearing that gear anymore anyways. What they're saying now is they are going to turn the embers we earned THIS LEVEL CAP into motes and force us to start over IN THE SAME LEVEL CAP. And since Ilvl increases come multiple times, this will happen repeatedly in the same level cap.

    *Unless Im misunderstanding, and for the love of Eru I HOPE I AM.*
    Ah yes, I understand - and I think you are right, under the same level cap, you will have now have enough for the gear you were saving for, but it will now be out of date, and you will have to start over again for the new up to date gear.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0c214000000145af6/01002/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    When I think about LotRO and SSG this is what comes to mind.

    "We're continuing to keep an eye on this, and appreciate your feedback, but please remember that the forums are a bubble within the community, and aren't representative of the wider community."

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...61#post8111861


    Just wanted you all know where you stand in SSG's opinion. The statement was a general reply and can't be taken out of context. It applies to anything LotRO.


    SSG needs to reverse this course now.
    Unfortunately, they're not wrong. Most players, for any game, not just LOTRO, aren't engaged to the degree that folks who frequent various message boards, discords, twitter and so on are. They simply log in, play, and quit when they're bored of it. You'll see more people engage in forums and such when they have a problem than you will at any other time.
    Very nice. Very evil.

  5. #105
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    Jan 2010
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    1,583
    Quote Originally Posted by hillard1959 View Post
    Unfortunately, they're not wrong. Most players, for any game, not just LOTRO, aren't engaged to the degree that folks who frequent various message boards, discords, twitter and so on are. They simply log in, play, and quit when they're bored of it. You'll see more people engage in forums and such when they have a problem than you will at any other time.
    To add onto this comment, folks who just play said game always provide false statistics beyond X are Playing, X are doing X Content and X are spending X amount of Money (usually a more internal statistic).

    If you make only 1 door everyone has to go through, of course you'll see 100% usage of said door.

  6. #106
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    Dec 2021
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    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Winzhi View Post
    Thanks took way too long before the whiteknights arrived. Hope restored.


    Thank you for this post.

  7. #107
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    Feb 2011
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    255
    Quote Originally Posted by hillard1959 View Post
    That's not completely true. Cosmetics and housing items also have an appeal, even for endgame players. It's like a job. You work it for the paycheck. You want to use that paycheck not just to pay for the things you need, but the things you want. Otherwise, what's the point?

    Motes can also be really handy for gearing up alts. And they want you to roll alts as that helps keep you engaged in the game. Which means you'll end up spending yet more money. Especially if this is the sum total of this particular change to loot acquisition. And turning in motes for figments was a good way to get those cosmetics that come up from the vendor on a cycle. You do, after all, only have so long to get everything you want before the next cycle.
    My post was specifically about gearing end game toons, which motes are irrelevant for.

    You are absolutely right though they were great for turning into figs and getting housing items. Which is exactly what I used em for. My housing obsession will suffer heavily with this change.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Harvain View Post
    To add onto this comment, folks who just play said game always provide false statistics beyond X are Playing, X are doing X Content and X are spending X amount of Money (usually a more internal statistic).

    If you make only 1 door everyone has to go through, of course you'll see 100% usage of said door.
    Precisely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oddessia View Post
    My post was specifically about gearing end game toons, which motes are irrelevant for.

    You are absolutely right though they were great for turning into figs and getting housing items. Which is exactly what I used em for. My housing obsession will suffer heavily with this change.
    Well, yeah. Not really disagreeing with you. Just felt the need to point that out. The biggest pinch is going to be felt at endgame, as that's where most of the moving parts live.

    But those figments... Turning in motes for those is about the only way I'd actively seek those out. There's enough rep-gated and token-gated cosmetics and housing items available that I probably wouldn't even bother looking at the figments vendor otherwise.
    Very nice. Very evil.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by hillard1959 View Post
    Unfortunately, they're not wrong. Most players, for any game, not just LOTRO, aren't engaged to the degree that folks who frequent various message boards, discords, twitter and so on are. They simply log in, play, and quit when they're bored of it. You'll see more people engage in forums and such when they have a problem than you will at any other time.
    It is true. Most aren't. Nobody I have spoken to in-game is happy about the changes, none of them post on the forums, when they have had enough they will just leave without saying anything, like 99.9% of the people who have left before.

    it is fine to say the forum isn't representative of the entire community, but it is the only feedback system they have other than player/subscriber numbers.

    I'd just like to pay a sub and bypass all these assinine systems designed to weasel some money out of the majority of players who don't pay a sub like FTPs and Lifers. I don't care what horrific system they force people to jump through the hoops, but I think as a subscriber, we should avoid #### systems designed intentional to make the game not fun to play just so we can spend some money to bypass these limitations.

    This is the inherent problem with FTP games, they are incentivised to make the game garbage to play and offer bypass for money, this is how mobile games (all of which are free to play) make so much money.

    I think SSG need to choose, subscription or these #### systems, because if this goes live I have no reason to keep subscribing, I am just going to get cockblocked behind the same systems.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Zvim666 View Post
    It is true. Most aren't. Nobody I have spoken to in-game is happy about the changes, none of them post on the forums, when they have had enough they will just leave without saying anything, like 99.9% of the people who have left before.

    it is fine to say the forum isn't representative of the entire community, but it is the only feedback system they have other than player/subscriber numbers.

    I'd just like to pay a sub and bypass all these assinine systems designed to weasel some money out of the majority of players who don't pay a sub like FTPs and Lifers. I don't care what horrific system they force people to jump through the hoops, but I think as a subscriber, we should avoid #### systems designed intentional to make the game not fun to play just so we can spend some money to bypass these limitations.

    This is the inherent problem with FTP games, they are incentivised to make the game garbage to play and offer bypass for money, this is how mobile games (all of which are free to play) make so much money.

    I think SSG need to choose, subscription or these #### systems, because if this goes live I have no reason to keep subscribing, I am just going to get cockblocked behind the same systems.
    You're not wrong, either. But, the impression I get is that the data they're receiving on the back end carries more weight than threads on the forum do. Right or wrong, it's hard data. Hard data will almost always win the day. For the forums to carry more weight than we do, we'd have to have a vastly bigger response from the community at large than we do now.
    Very nice. Very evil.

  11. #111
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    260
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandolf_TheOld View Post
    By reading the post, one could be excused for thinking, you do not understand what Pay2Win means.

    Embers, Figments and Motes are not available in the LOTRO Store for real life cash. That these items, are only available as rewards for some in game action that any player can undertake does not make any of them pay2win. So how are these changes "Pay2Win?"
    PTW is used in gaming with the meaning "Pay to Win" to refer to games that allow players to purchase items or abilities (e.g., more powerful weapons, additional health points) that give them an advantage in the game, either over other players or NPCs (Non-Player Characters).

    P2W is a very controversial aspect of gaming, especially in MP (Multiplayer) games. Many players strongly object to people being able to pay to trump their own hard-earned experience or superior skills.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Piff View Post
    I had a chat with a friend, and they pointed out something that might be relevant.

    In the past, we've always said, it's fine if you want to fill up the store with cosmetics, just don't put essential stuff in there, and I still have that opinion.

    It seems like someone up in marketing wants you to monetise the cosmetic system, and I understand that.

    So just put them in the store.

    Don't bother restricting figments like this. If what you want is for people to buy things from the store, then just put the cosmetics in the store. It's easier and more honest for all of us.
    I agree. I would buy from the store directly, but I won't gamble. I don't even know where they get the idea that their players prefer gambling over honest sales.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillard1959 View Post
    Unfortunately, they're not wrong. Most players, for any game, not just LOTRO, aren't engaged to the degree that folks who frequent various message boards, discords, twitter and so on are. They simply log in, play, and quit when they're bored of it. You'll see more people engage in forums and such when they have a problem than you will at any other time.
    Right or wrong, some things are best left unsaid. Temerity has its place.

  14. #114
    Can you just imagine the RAGE of all those Players who don't read the forums, that first time they log in after an update...and ALL their hard-earned Embers are GONE !!?


    SSG, you are once again doing far more damage to your own game than you can possibly realize.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    Right or wrong, some things are best left unsaid. Temerity has its place.
    So does Prudence.
    Very nice. Very evil.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillard1959 View Post
    So does Prudence.
    Which the quote has none of. Thanks for pointing that out

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    Which the quote has none of. Thanks for pointing that out
    Stating a caveat is always prudent. Always. Being offended by such isn't. It doesn't change anything. It doesn't make your position stronger. It's just venting. Which is fine. You're free to do so as you will. Even to do so at me, if that is your wont. But that won't change that it is the way it is, and this is a thing that's going to happen.

    Patience also has it's place. I, myself, am waiting to see if that's actually the sum total of the changes we'll get or if this is just what Cord is able to talk to us about right now. As much as I don't like the change as it stands, we've still got a few weeks yet. It would be Prudent for SSG to allow Cord to tell us more about it, if there's more to tell. As it stands now, this isn't a good look at all. And I think we can both agree on that.
    Very nice. Very evil.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    Right or wrong, some things are best left unsaid. Temerity has its place.
    Quote Originally Posted by hillard1959 View Post
    So does Prudence.
    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    Which the quote has none of. Thanks for pointing that out
    Temerity: "Excessive confidence or boldness; audacity."

    I think Audacity: "A willingness to take bold risks" would be better for what SSG has stated and which does lack any Prudence: "The quality of being prudent; cautiousness."

    With an example of such being: "We need to exercise prudence in such important matters".

  19. #119
    they should pay at least some attention to the forums, i mean does anyone else even know the game still exists?

    what they should do to make an enjoyable and engaging experience is fix the damn LAG.

    i tried to get some friends to play recently and try the redone pvmp and when they encountered the lag they just laughed and said no.

    stop trying to reinvent the wheel and just fix that damn flat tire !
    .

    Mortem Tyrannis

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Harvain View Post
    Temerity: "Excessive confidence or boldness; audacity."

    I think Audacity: "A willingness to take bold risks" would be better for what SSG has stated and which does lack any Prudence: "The quality of being prudent; cautiousness." With an example of such being: "We need to exercise prudence in such important matters".
    I would argue that Cord and, by extension, SSG is probably being overly prudent. In this case, to their detriment. It strikes me as "Well, we have to say something. If we just drop this on them at the last minute, it's going to be really bad. Here's what you're actually allowed to say."

    It would have been better with more details. We still don't know exactly how this is going to work or even expected to work. We need more details. But then, we still don't even know the full breadth and width of what the reward track will entail. Which means we still don't know everything we should know about the LI system. So.. adjust expectations accordingly. The changes could be worse than we think. They could be better. Just don't set expectations too high. Nobody has ever been disappointed by expecting the worst.
    Very nice. Very evil.

  21. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by CloudCastle View Post
    Why are so few people commenting on this? This is an impactful change and a negative one. For some of us, earning enough embers for 1 or 2 pieces can take MONTHS. Sometimes it takes me so long that the item levels have already gone up before I've had a chance to buy anything. The way things are now I can just hold onto my embers and buy whatever item level is currently max. Under the new system, I better be paying real close attention, because when an update patch comes through, ALL my embers will be converted and all that work thrown out the window, making me start all over again. Even if I do follow the announcements carefully, I will be forced to spend my embers on gear that will literally be outdated the VERY NEXT DAY. What a waste of embers.
    So, the gear you are working towards that is for the current cap and requires Embers, when the patch comes which increases that cap your Embers will convert to Motes and the gear you were earning Embers for also changes to being purchasable with Motes. It's the same gear and you now have both your newly converted Embers and your existing Motes to buy gear from that vendor. Am I missing something here?
    << Co-founder of The Firebrands of Caruja on Landroval >>
    Ceolford of Dale, Dorolin, Tordag, Garberend Bellheather, Colfinn Belegorn, Garmo Butterbuckles, Calensarn Nimlos, Langtiriel, Bergteir


  22. #122
    The only thing I read that sounds good about this is increasing the cap, the rest of it you need to go back to the drawing board on SSG, as others have said, are you trying to get players to quit? First, some of the nonsense with the "Legendary Revamp" and now this utter lunacy? I think I may be going back to SWTOR.
    Hogrid, Landroval

  23. #123
    Other than perhaps the Ember Worthy Craft recipes that are not cap tier what is changing about how we get Embers? The only thing I see us losing is the ability to convert Embers and Motes to Figments which does seem like a pointless change. Did I misread something?
    << Co-founder of The Firebrands of Caruja on Landroval >>
    Ceolford of Dale, Dorolin, Tordag, Garberend Bellheather, Colfinn Belegorn, Garmo Butterbuckles, Calensarn Nimlos, Langtiriel, Bergteir


  24. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by auximenes View Post
    Other than perhaps the Ember Worthy Craft recipes that are not cap tier what is changing about how we get Embers? The only thing I see us losing is the ability to convert Embers and Motes to Figments which does seem like a pointless change. Did I misread something?
    We're also losing the ability to turn gear into embers and motes outside of gear that we need lockboxes or embers and motes to obtain. And that's about it. We don't know if there's going to be an increase in the amount of Embers or Motes we can get via other means (or, conversely, a decrease). That's about all we know. And that's problematic, to put it politely.
    Very nice. Very evil.

  25. #125
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    Jan 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillard1959 View Post
    I would argue that Cord and, by extension, SSG is probably being overly prudent. In this case, to their detriment. It strikes me as "Well, we have to say something. If we just drop this on them at the last minute, it's going to be really bad. Here's what you're actually allowed to say."

    It would have been better with more details. We still don't know exactly how this is going to work or even expected to work. We need more details. But then, we still don't even know the full breadth and width of what the reward track will entail. Which means we still don't know everything we should know about the LI system. So.. adjust expectations accordingly. The changes could be worse than we think. They could be better. Just don't set expectations too high. Nobody has ever been disappointed by expecting the worst.
    I wouldn't say they have any prudence in this decision and direction.

    This seems more like the tried and true method Turbine and SSG are known for during LOTRO's heading toward 15 Year Launch History: "We've made a decision, we've done the work, now we have to justify it and go through with it. If there is fallout, we'll deal with it in the aftermath and adjust how it works while ensuring our work still remains in the direction we wanted."

    It's not like this is new or SSG hasn't done it in a while. Folks gave plenty of feedback for the New Legendary Item System especially for the Layout of the New Legendary Item UI and the lack of In-Game Help which SSG pretty much stated they already sank X amount of work into and they'd explore how to improve on such in time. Which both of those examples have no timetable.



    I would make the argument Jan to end of March 2022 had a really good Small Road Map for Development with what Producer Raninia gave us back in December 2021. An overall plan for the 3 months with the biggest focus on Update 32. Which at least to myself seemed like a very solid plan: Nothing fancy, getting things we need into the Game and ensuring things keep running and improving and get us into the Official Start of Year 15 of LOTRO in April 2022, it's Celebration and all the other things coming to LOTRO here in 2022.

    Update 32 has X amount of things including: the Fate of Gundabad Expansion Raid, a new Quest Pack area for the Early Part of LOTRO's Content, The Legendary Item Reward Track, Erebor Premium Housing, the Spring Festival and X work going on and likely will see elements during this time period. With the Update 31 Content Cycle mostly being focused on fixes and getting things ready for Update 32.

    I would say since SSG came back to work fully in 2022 up to Jan 11th's Announcement about the direction of the 3 Currencies, there really wasn't anything overly positive or overly negative stated by SSG. Game Performance is still being worked and hopefully X amount of things being worked on in the Development Pipeline will see LOTRO have some Positive Performance gains here in Early 2022. So on and so forth, fairly per usual for what happens with LOTRO on the daily.



    Which then leads into Jan 11th and a bomb shell out of nowhere. No build up. No hints.

    Based on their 2021 comments on the Currencies it seemed highly unlikely they'd be increasing them anytime soon, let alone by any significant amount. Personally I expected maybe a 20,000 Cap for all 3 Currencies sometime in Mid or Late 2022 if we were lucky. A nice boost, keeps things under control, gives folks a little more flexibility and my perspective it would have given a little more reason to spend Keys especially after say the majority of a Content Cycle's Instances/Raids were in to start gearing up Characters for X amount of Accounts that do such.

    But I never expected such an out of left field response, decision and direction like what we've been given.

    Only time will tell how SSG will respond to the Feedback they are being given and what potential direction they'll be plunging LOTRO into, willing or not.

 

 
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