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  1. #51
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Posts
    66
    I think the disabling of traceries and the cap on Ancient Script should be removed. I am a casual player who occasionally does instances and whose main is only at 103 for the moment.

    In addition to many of the points already made here, part of my problem with tracery disabling is that it makes things more confusing. I've read all of the guides and revisited some of them more than once. I still have a hard to time keeping straight in my head the interplay of all of the different level ranges.

    There are level ranges for:
    Reforging the LI
    When old traceries are disabled
    When new traceries of the next level can be equipped
    What level of tracery each enhancement rune can be applied to
    Each enhancement rune rarity - lowest rarity (green/yellow?) can be used up to A level of enhancement, purple to B level, teal to C, and gold to D

    It is a pain trying to keep track of all of these layers especially across multiple alts. It would nice if there weren't such a steep penalty for not realizing while you are leveling that you need to upgrade your traceries. This is all the more problem because, as others have said, the tracery drops aren't even close to what they need to be to either replace old traceries directly or disenchant for AS.

    As to Ancient Script... I still don't get why there is a currency cap at all. If someone builds a large reserve, so what? Without cracked/shattered traceries, you can only buy up to purple rarity anyway. IIRC, you can splurge on enhancement runes, but that is about it.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Filloston View Post
    I think the disabling of traceries and the cap on Ancient Script should be removed. I am a casual player who occasionally does instances and whose main is only at 103 for the moment.

    In addition to many of the points already made here, part of my problem with tracery disabling is that it makes things more confusing. I've read all of the guides and revisited some of them more than once. I still have a hard to time keeping straight in my head the interplay of all of the different level ranges.

    There are level ranges for:
    Reforging the LI
    When old traceries are disabled
    When new traceries of the next level can be equipped
    What level of tracery each enhancement rune can be applied to
    Each enhancement rune rarity - lowest rarity (green/yellow?) can be used up to A level of enhancement, purple to B level, teal to C, and gold to D

    It is a pain trying to keep track of all of these layers especially across multiple alts. It would nice if there weren't such a steep penalty for not realizing while you are leveling that you need to upgrade your traceries. This is all the more problem because, as others have said, the tracery drops aren't even close to what they need to be to either replace old traceries directly or disenchant for AS.

    As to Ancient Script... I still don't get why there is a currency cap at all. If someone builds a large reserve, so what? Without cracked/shattered traceries, you can only buy up to purple rarity anyway. IIRC, you can splurge on enhancement runes, but that is about it.
    While the LI has less different components now, they overcomplicated the new systems with all the level ranges and colors on traceries AND enhancement runes. I don't see any reason for this except to fill our storage again.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    2,372
    I bought a steel frame from Hurly, gearset from Shimano, harvested handlebars, saddle, rear rack and paniers from my old bike, then braised a front rack and sewed front paniers to match, built a wheel with a dynamo, added a battery pack and controller and Kevlar tyres as well. The black powder-coat paint job and red accents tops it off, it's got alarms too. A Kona would have been nice but 3 times the price.

    That yellow monstrosity doesn't do it for me either. I have a bike for life perfectly built for the "Landscape" and to last.

    Not a fan of designed obsolesce. It's destroying the planet, can we not have it destroying our little bit of Middle-earth.

  4. #54
    TL;DR
    The way I see it, there's two issues here: disabling traceries at arbitrary levels and not making replacements obtainable except in very specific circumstances.
    So either remove the disabling of traceries and let us play with them until the difficulty curve of the game forces us to do whatever we have to, or make the yellow/purple tiers of traceries easily accessible for everyone and not just those players willing to grind the same handful of instances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    If I can have lvl50 blue traceries forever, I don't care, fine for me. If I can upgrade casually to blue 130, I might do. But i don't want to be forced to do it nor change my playstyle.

    I guess I'm not the only one, right?
    So... way back in Isengard days, I made a post on the forums asking to have staffs/runestones/javelins/etc. added to the tier 7 crafting recipes, because surely I couldn't be the ONLY one who refused to use a legendary item, right? And the response was overwhelmingly "yes, you are in fact the only one." So being me, I promptly refused to use a legendary item on my LM until they introduced imbuement at level 100, at which point the sheer ineffectiveness of my level 65 non-legendary staff forced me to upgrade if I wanted to continue playing. (I didn't get a legendary class item until partway through Mordor, to deal with that difficulty spike, and I still don't have a bridle.) I had kinnies at the time who replaced their lis every 2-3 levels, because the increased dps made them (in their minds) in-arguably better, and who could not fathom that I would be happy not doing that.

    And honestly, I feel like this is the point the devs are at. They say "all you need for landscape is to reforge" and... yeah, it's possible to play that way, for now, but not without drawbacks. Legendaries used to be the one area we could experiment with different builds and find one that suited us individually without running head-first into the brick wall of whatever the dev team had decided was the "only possible best option (because it's the only one we bothered to make haha!)" and now that's effectively being taken away, forcing us all onto the "dps is the only thing that matters" path while at the same time creating even greater (and more insurmountable) differences in dps between players. Which is a problem.
    Well, I suppose you could always say "flame resistant sunglasses" if you prefer that to "shoes"

  5. #55
    I agree, if the new idea was the that weapon should grow with you, then it does not make sense they disable and stop working to have to be replaced at some point.
    Hogrid, Landroval

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,355
    Quote Originally Posted by DroboTheDwarf View Post
    I agree, if the new idea was the that weapon should grow with you, then it does not make sense they disable and stop working to have to be replaced at some point.
    I believe "grows with you" was the motto for the imbued LI. The motto for the new LI might be more like "makes money for the company".

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by wispsong View Post
    I don't see any reason for this except to fill our storage again.
    To try to force us to P2W. It's a blatant cash grab.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Itharas View Post
    TL;DR
    The way I see it, there's two issues here: disabling traceries at arbitrary levels and not making replacements obtainable except in very specific circumstances.
    So either remove the disabling of traceries and let us play with them until the difficulty curve of the game forces us to do whatever we have to, or make the yellow/purple tiers of traceries easily accessible for everyone and not just those players willing to grind the same handful of instances.



    So... way back in Isengard days, I made a post on the forums asking to have staffs/runestones/javelins/etc. added to the tier 7 crafting recipes, because surely I couldn't be the ONLY one who refused to use a legendary item, right? And the response was overwhelmingly "yes, you are in fact the only one." So being me, I promptly refused to use a legendary item on my LM until they introduced imbuement at level 100, at which point the sheer ineffectiveness of my level 65 non-legendary staff forced me to upgrade if I wanted to continue playing. (I didn't get a legendary class item until partway through Mordor, to deal with that difficulty spike, and I still don't have a bridle.) I had kinnies at the time who replaced their lis every 2-3 levels, because the increased dps made them (in their minds) in-arguably better, and who could not fathom that I would be happy not doing that.

    And honestly, I feel like this is the point the devs are at. They say "all you need for landscape is to reforge" and... yeah, it's possible to play that way, for now, but not without drawbacks. Legendaries used to be the one area we could experiment with different builds and find one that suited us individually without running head-first into the brick wall of whatever the dev team had decided was the "only possible best option (because it's the only one we bothered to make haha!)" and now that's effectively being taken away, forcing us all onto the "dps is the only thing that matters" path while at the same time creating even greater (and more insurmountable) differences in dps between players. Which is a problem.
    That's a very interesting perspective, I might have lived this when essence system started since I was using the Dol Amroth class gear (non essence) up until the Wastes, and I always disliked essence and I've always been looking for gear with the less essence slots possible.

    But I wonder if the situation now might be different. It seems that more customization is what wins. You see - LIs vs normal weapons; essence gear vs normal gear. LIs and essence won because they offer more customization. In this case, new LIs, if empty, it's less customization than old LIs. I'm curious to see if history will repeat or it will be different
    Anamura, Sunnarea, Silenius, Neushiro, Wandrassa, Wuldar, Fingaladir, Meowear, Virgalia, Turgamar (Old Fegefeuer)
    Amilegeth, Wargarr, Shakarabash, Luklubuz, Grishlukashkahkh, Dashkanakh
    "One lag to lag them all and in the lagness lag them"

  9. #59
    Well if the reward track needs to be delayed until 2022 that's fine, but now they absolutely must change traceries to not disable.

    Let them stay stagnant when over-leveled, but don't take the dang stats away when your character levels up!
    Landroval - The Council of the Secret Fire Friendly, Casual, Mature, and always seeking more!
    Message moondog548 here, on Steam, Twitch, and Discord as moondog548#6830
    Moondog on Landroval, Isilroa on Anor, Reckless on Bombadil

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    But I wonder if the situation now might be different. It seems that more customization is what wins. You see - LIs vs normal weapons; essence gear vs normal gear. LIs and essence won because they offer more customization. In this case, new LIs, if empty, it's less customization than old LIs. I'm curious to see if history will repeat or it will be different

    I was specifically thinking empty lis as lacking customization (specifically those with traceries disabled and not yet replaced).

    But even more generally speaking, a number of decisions in the last few years have whittled away at what customization options players had:
    - Changing to the new lootboxes and removing the ability to acquire keys in game, combined with the lack of options for armor (Rohan is particularly bad for this, but also requiring materials from raids for crafted armor or making the rep requirements so high that you've already finished the area and moved on before you can acquire anything or quest armor with a minimum level requirement higher than the minimum requirement for the quest also contributes) mean that trying to improve a stat that isn't your main stat but which still provides some amount of benefit becomes either p2w or impossible - and now (depending on what stat it is) you may not even be able to use your li for that.
    - Morale/vitality essences being removed because players actually used them (gasp!) and it made things difficult to balance.
    - Statements from the dev team that they want each class to have 1 viable trait tree (and if the brawler is any indication, fewer possible trait trees is the way of the future).
    - Virtues giving the benefit from all passive skills, and thus eliminating the need to trait for any of those things (with the resulting trade-offs) specifically.
    - Stat caps in general (very necessary for balance reasons, but ultimately still limiting how much someone could customize their character).
    - Character scaling mechanics for epic battles which arbitrarily assign numbers to things rather than actually scaling (really, really funny if you ever level from 100 to 101 mid battle and watch the numbers plummet - bonus points if you then die because of the sudden loss of armor from someone forgetting they changed that class from medium armor to heavy armor and you're suddenly extremely squishy. And now that I think about it, how are traceries affected by level scaling? I could easily see that being a huge variable in deciding when to replace traceries...).
    - And now traceries being both rng and restricted to certain level ranges (great if you have them, but if you don't...). Nor does it actually serve any purpose, seeing as players will eventually decide on their own they need to replace their traceries. Make the runes harder to get (because really, can you call a gold tracery in an unleveled slot BiS?) if you must, but the traceries themselves should always be available.
    Well, I suppose you could always say "flame resistant sunglasses" if you prefer that to "shoes"

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    656
    Quote Originally Posted by Froyo_K_Baggins View Post
    To try to force us to P2W. It's a blatant cash grab.
    With regard to those last 2 words, this is why I find this part of the first week of the Yule sale so ironic:


    35% off Tracery Reclamation Scrolls
    You will grind your hamsterwheel and you will be happy.
    From f2p to p2w: nothing here is accidental
    https://www.gdcvault.com/play/102469...g-Monetization

  12. #62
    We used to grind for scrolls, now called runes, and now we also have to grind for legacies, now called traceries, in a new system that is supposed to be better. Exchanging all every few levels... and they call this legendary weapons?! Sweet Eru!

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Happybudgy View Post
    With regard to those last 2 words, this is why I find this part of the first week of the Yule sale so ironic:


    35% off Tracery Reclamation Scrolls

    Exactly.

    And my only question is whether the Devs were laughing as they set up this sale...or did the extreme irony of the situation completely fly over their heads?

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    656
    Quote Originally Posted by Seregthol View Post
    Exactly.

    And my only question is whether the Devs were laughing as they set up this sale...or did the extreme irony of the situation completely fly over their heads?
    Well... aren't they laughing at players who respond like puppets on strings with regard to unwanted/undesirable changes to their gameplay but who still keep paying in the hope to maintain some semblance of the game they like so much, who easily shell out money upon money upon money to avoid grind and rng and diminished RoI on their invested time? (if you want to see this company's gaming philosophy worked out, look at the slide show that they produced a few years ago, linked in my sig).

    The last feeling that I would ever want to give my paying customers: that they feel mocked, laughed at, taken advantage of.
    But apparently this is a very profitable way of doing business.

    Quote Originally Posted by Happybudgy View Post
    The description of the Tracery removal scrolls read 'Keep what you’ve worked for!' - ....... wasn't a game supposed to be fun? Wasn't the grind supposed to be a choice?
    Haven't players had endless conversations about whether grinding is work or play?
    And now the producer of the game labels your in game grinding (esp. when this is not your preference) as 'work'?

    snip

    It's interesting, yes?, that for many years to development of alts was discouraged because of the lack of full crafting expansion.
    But now alts are definitely into play again with this LI reward track. You may not want to lose out, and thus you may actually want at least 1 LI carrying character for each different armour style: light/will, medium/agility, and heavy/might.

    The way I see tracery boxes appear in the store is this: they will be added once players are exasperated about not being able to obtain what they wish for via regular game play.
    That will drive players to the store with relief. Don't forget that everything you see is WAI.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    Lmao they laugh at us.

    If we could keep what we have worked for then traceries wouldn't disable
    Quote Originally Posted by Happybudgy View Post
    Of course they laugh at us. And of course they wouldn't disable. First you invest in the grind which makes the result valuable to you and then you invest in the store to be allowed to keep using what you are by now invested in.

    I assume they also must have been laughing when players kept posting here that they kept supporting the game despite being greatly dissatisfied with the game, because they were afraid the revenue was so low that there was a big chance the game could close.
    But they didn't base that on numbers. That was the players' perception of the lack of resources being invested in the game. They didn't want to or couldn't see that that was a way for the company to increase profits.
    Many players, who already bought the expansions, felt there was nothing in the Black Friday sales for them.

    That was very much WAI. The Black Friday sale only included expansions to lure back former players and current players who were still holding out - so that both groups will soon get closer to buying Gundabad for hard $$, and because everyone who is actively playing the game is a chance for the company to get more revenue from via monetization.

    Some may go as far as feeling that with buying the expansions they give the company permission to further restrict their game play unless they shell out muchos dineros.

    Do I mind paying for a product? Absolutely not.
    Do I mind paying more for more fun? No.
    Do I have a huge problem with the monetization that I see here. Absolutely.
    So then there is new fun: how to avoid it

    At the moment I am grinding for pieces of a party hat in a game that is celebrating its 20th year of existence at the moment.
    I am having a blast and it doesn't cost a penny extra. Now that game has fun quests: witty British humour and great, very imaginative puzzles.
    Last edited by Happybudgy; Dec 05 2021 at 02:20 PM.
    You will grind your hamsterwheel and you will be happy.
    From f2p to p2w: nothing here is accidental
    https://www.gdcvault.com/play/102469...g-Monetization

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by CloudCastle View Post
    I noticed that SSG has been silent in all the posts on this issue, and I suspect they will remain so until after the reward track is released. I think they believe this will resolve all the current complaints of traceries being difficult to impossible to acquire on landscape. Hopefully they are right. Either way, there is probably no point in asking for changes until after the reward track launches and we see how that goes. I doubt SSG will take any complaints seriously until then.
    They won't take anything seriously AFTER than either ...
    Luinmiriel [L130 Elf Hunter], Marisibelle [L130 Burglar], Rosilyn [L130 Captain], Carafindriel [L130 Elf Minstrel], Katellin [L130 Beorning], Vornmiriel [L130 Elf Hunter], Melissabelle [L130 Burglar], Lorindriel [L130 Elf Warden], Luinmirien [L130 High Elf Hunter], Silaeluin [L130 High Elf Runekeeper]
    "One is truly rich who has friends."

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by CloudCastle View Post
    I noticed that SSG has been silent in all the posts on this issue, and I suspect they will remain so until after the reward track is released. I think they believe this will resolve all the current complaints of traceries being difficult to impossible to acquire on landscape. Hopefully they are right. Either way, there is probably no point in asking for changes until after the reward track launches and we see how that goes. I doubt SSG will take any complaints seriously until then.
    Honestly, on my end, it's mostly cause I've been super busy (which is why I'm posting on a rare weekend). But yes, I think the Legendary Item Reward Track will change the player experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    Let's see, although I kinda suspect how this reward track might be. Maybe I'm wrong, though. I imagine something like hobbit gifts but the rewards come by getting legendary item experience/runes. Rewards might be random, and traceries will come in the rng boxes. Maybe this is where tracery monetization will happen? So you can roll with MC. Who knows. Just saying to see if when it's released, it's like this or not.
    I answered this in your other thread, but no, no connection to Hobbit Presents. Be weird if it worked like Hobbit Presents, especially after I said we don't like how Hobbit Presents works atm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    But if they think reward track will solve these problems, I don't understand why they don't say something so we can stop talking about it? And then why did they say LI without traceries is enough for landscape if they "intend" to reward traceries in landscape?
    To answer your second question first: Our goal is for reforges to give players enough stats to make the landscape playable, but that doesn't mean we don't want to give players more tools. I'm sort of confused by this question tbh. The path of logic here seems to just assume bad faith on our part?

    As for your first question: Well, if there was something I could say that would prevent all players from talking about something and being upset about it, you bet I would In fact, imagine that I just did!..

    Unfortunately, that's totally impossible, as this hopefully demonstrates:

    Quote Originally Posted by DKenny View Post
    Really? So you've played all content, current and future, with all classes at all levels where LI are a potential factor and you've definitively determined that "disabled traceries won't be a problem" for anyone. Well, all I can say is good luck getting invited to a PUG for group content with empty LI slots / disabled traceries. Probably for the best since I doubt you would have much success with such content. I suppose you could always try telling the raid leader that "reforging gives a nice boost to damage and healing". Perhaps that will persuade him to invite you.
    There's a lot of goal post moving here, there's a lot of "Well what if sometime somewhere somehow things don't work out correctly?" I'm being slightly facetious here, but hopefully - if you can take me with some good faith - you'll understand my point.

    It's ok, I get it. Fear's a helluva drug. But not all the concerns or requests players have or make are made equal.

    To briefly address the main topic here: No, we're not planning to change our minds on disabling traceries. They will continue to be disabled when they say they will. I understand the concerns here, but they're based off hypothetical scenarios and flawed anecdotals. We're continuing to keep an eye on this, and appreciate your feedback, but please remember that the forums are a bubble within the community, and aren't representative of the wider community. I understand that many of you are probably dissatisfied with that answer, however, based on the data we have so far, we're comfortable with the decision we've made. I get there's still a lot of confusion on when the disabling happens, and we hope that as folks spend more time with the system, they'll better understand it.

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Raninia View Post
    It's ok, I get it. Fear's a helluva drug. But not all the concerns or requests players have or make are made equal.

    To briefly address the main topic here: No, we're not planning to change our minds on disabling traceries. They will continue to be disabled when they say they will. I understand the concerns here, but they're based off hypothetical scenarios and flawed anecdotals. We're continuing to keep an eye on this, and appreciate your feedback, but please remember that the forums are a bubble within the community, and aren't representative of the wider community. I understand that many of you are probably dissatisfied with that answer, however, based on the data we have so far, we're comfortable with the decision we've made. I get there's still a lot of confusion on when the disabling happens, and we hope that as folks spend more time with the system, they'll better understand it.
    How about an entirely non-hypothetical scenario? I levelled through West Rohan a couple of months ago, equipped with the Hytbold armor set which capped out at level 95, and this was my experience with it.

    I reached level 96 just before the Helm's Deep battles, at which point I had yet to find replacements for the entire set, and so I found myself with a few empty armor slots. I was still able to complete the battles, but the fact that I reached the climax of this storyline only to see some of my armor arbitrarily taken away from me soured the whole experience, and detracted from my enjoyment of the rising momentum of the story. Indeed, I found that the closer I got to 96, the more I started to worry about the armor pieces I had yet to replace, instead of looking forward to replacing them with something better.

    (admittedly, I carry some of the blame here; I was planning on equipping the Stone of the Tortoise just short of 96, but I miscalculated and ended up turning in one quest too many. Still, that's really not the kind of thing I want to have to think about while I'm levelling, obsessively calculating XP to ensure that I don't accept too much)

    In my experience, level-capped gear encourages a completely different response from you than gear without level caps. Even when I were able to replace the gear before it was disabled, I never felt empowered by it, it never felt like the choice was really of my own making. I understand and accept that we're supposed to replace our gear on a regular basis, but it feels much more rewarding when we ourselves get to make the choice to replace it on our own terms, rather than having that choice forced upon us by a looming, set-in-stone expiration date.

    Could I have made more of an effort to replace the Hytbold pieces that I was unable to replace in time? Probably. Could I have paid more attention to how close I was to levelling up? Absolutely. But is the above scenario really what you're trying to replicate here, pushing players to pause what they're doing during the process of levelling out of fear of losing their gear and being left with nothing? Is the intent to replace the sense of empowerment from being allowed to replace our gear on our own terms, with a sense of looming apprehension to encourage us to settle for something which we might otherwise deem to be lesser, just so that what aren't left with nothing? As has been pointed out, players who care about getting BiS won't settle for a lower-levelled tracery, they will put in the work to replace it; I feel like the only thing that the level caps will accomplish, is to punish players enjoying the process of levelling, and frustrate players who were never going to put in the effort to get BiS to begin with.

    (no, the weapon itself won't be disabled, we will still have an empty DPS stick to work with even when the traceries stop working, unlike the Hytbold gear which was unequipped of me entirely, robbing me of both armor value, and stats and set bonuses equally. However, that's a really poor saving grace in my eyes; if I end up losing all of the most interesting qualities of the weapon in one sweep, my enjoyment and my perception of player empowerment is going to take a hit, no matter how well this mechanically uninteresting empty stick might allow me to move on through sheer force of DPS alone)
    Last edited by EU_Macfeast; Dec 06 2021 at 01:48 AM.

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    172
    Quote Originally Posted by Raninia View Post
    Honestly, on my end, it's mostly cause I've been super busy (which is why I'm posting on a rare weekend). But yes, I think the Legendary Item Reward Track will change the player experience.
    An account-wide track on a 3 month reset will have diminishing returns for multiple characters. Please take that into account as you take extra time to work on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raninia View Post
    To answer your second question first: Our goal is for reforges to give players enough stats to make the landscape playable, but that doesn't mean we don't want to give players more tools.
    Probably just being pedantic here, but you do know that reforges don't award stats right? Just raw dps. And healing/incoming healing if applicable, which for landscape content it usually isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raninia View Post
    It's ok, I get it. Fear's a helluva drug. But not all the concerns or requests players have or make are made equal.
    Fear isn't really the issue for me. I personally have a ton of characters that will always be able to "feed" alts the resources to make gearing a trivial exercise. But when I'm trying to get friends to play the game with me it makes a tall order an even harder sell with the added complexity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raninia View Post
    To briefly address the main topic here: No, we're not planning to change our minds on disabling traceries. They will continue to be disabled when they say they will. I understand the concerns here, but they're based off hypothetical scenarios and flawed anecdotals. We're continuing to keep an eye on this, and appreciate your feedback, but please remember that the forums are a bubble within the community, and aren't representative of the wider community. I understand that many of you are probably dissatisfied with that answer, however, based on the data we have so far, we're comfortable with the decision we've made. I get there's still a lot of confusion on when the disabling happens, and we hope that as folks spend more time with the system, they'll better understand it.
    Please remember that many of these hypotheticals and anecdotes are rooted in a decade or more of experience playing this game and watching various decisions be made and corrected and sometimes reversed. I personally suggested that Yellow Burglars get the ability to stack or aoe their tricks many years back as a capstone trait and was incredibly surprised and delighted when they gave us both.

    For the record, I am leveling my Brawler the old-fashioned way and will be trying not to borrow resources for his LIs. I suspect that between limited tracery slots at lower levels and quest rewards, replacing traceries as I go will be an afterthought. I'm more concerned about the process of building a raid-ready set with the Gundabad quest boxes being randomized rather than selection. And similarly concerned that I've only been able to replace a few 121 traceries on my other characters with 131's so far despite a healthy number of instance runs. I really don't want to have to make a spreadsheet to keep track of which characters need which traceries on which LIs to be upgraded before the next level cap bump, no matter how distant that day might be. It's just not compelling gameplay.


  19. #69
    Ever since they introduced Legendary Items, way back in when Moria was released, I have been playing "LI game". Meaning that since I had all classes, I almost never destroyed any third-ager LI's I found but instead send them to right alt. Then, all my characters had 6 LI slots open (would have opened more but it was too expensive for my tastes), so with 2 equipped LI's and the bridle, I had three slots constantly in use for those found third agers that I levelled to 31 (normally), or 11 if my bags/vault were full of LI's, or max level if I didn't have LI's for that character. And then I deconned those 3rd Agers, for IXP runes and relics. BUT all that time I made sure I didn't "miss out" on any IXP, so if at some point I didn't have found any 3rd Ager to work with, I parked that toon for a while and chose another.

    Anyway, that playstyle meant that I usually had my main and few other characters done all the landscape (solo) quests in game, and some others had still plenty to do. And it was good, because I didn't get bored so easily compared if I did the same area 10 times in a row. But even if I did grey quests that gave me no XP, I still got IXP for my LI's. And although I was far overleveled for some area, my character was not nerfed in any way. But as I understand all this, in future I get XP and gain levels (at the next level cap raise), but if I still do questing in lower level areas, my LI's (and therefore my character) get seriously gimped as the moment my character reaches lvl 141, all those lvl 121 traceries stop working. If my character is still at Wells of Langflood, for example, how do I survive in War of Three Peaks of Gundabad if then I basically have only LI's without single tracery?

    I guess this sorts itself out someway, but for now it just seems to me that I am being pushed, or even forced to play current content with ALL my characters, or if I don't, I have to continue with handicapped characters. I don't like being pushed :/

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    14,905
    Quote Originally Posted by Raninia View Post
    Our goal is for reforges to give players enough stats to make the landscape playable, but that doesn't mean we don't want to give players more tools.
    Reforge doesn't give stats of any kind. All it does in add to the dps number. While higher dps is enough to keep a player trudging through landscape, it really isn't something a player should need a legendary item for. Legendary items, by their very essence, involve legacies (now called traceries). Think of it like giving a player an all singing, all dancing Ferrari, when all they need is four wheels and a drive button. All it does is cause unnecessary confusion and added maintenance.

    What you've basically put across with this answer is that players on landscape do not need legendary weapons, all they need is good dps. Yet, they have no choice but to go the legendary route. It would be easier to provide simple but effective non legendary, high dps weapons.

    What about down in the lower levels, where there are no real ways so far to earn things for LI's. I know many players seem to think that people levelling up just quest up to the top, but that isn't the reality. Some players do just that, others wish to stop and enjoy the group content at each previous level cap. Reforge is not going to cut it for those folk.
    Last edited by Arnenna; Dec 06 2021 at 02:25 AM.
    Sometimes, no matter how hard you look, there is no best light.


  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Raninia View Post
    .

    To briefly address the main topic here: No, we're not planning to change our minds on disabling traceries. They will continue to be disabled when they say they will. I understand the concerns here, but they're based off hypothetical scenarios and flawed anecdotals. We're continuing to keep an eye on this, and appreciate your feedback, but please remember that the forums are a bubble within the community, and aren't representative of the wider community. I understand that many of you are probably dissatisfied with that answer, however, based on the data we have so far, we're comfortable with the decision we've made. I get there's still a lot of confusion on when the disabling happens, and we hope that as folks spend more time with the system, they'll better understand it.
    Thank you Raninia, now I can stop complaining and just give up.

    One last thing. I know SSG never test stuff, but normal companies who test games, let me say you how bugs or unwanted behaviors are found. When you fix bugs and such, testers have to try all possible scenarios and be sure that everything will work as intended. As game dev myself, when I test my games, this is a kind of annoying thing to do when testing a game, since it is fixing things that maybe in normal gameplay won't happen, but it can happen. If you don't think in all possible scenarios, you have situations like imbue system, where you are supposed to increase percentage forever and add eternal empowerment. This shows lack of planification at the beginning. You call our "theories" as flawed, but it is you as a company who has to test properly all possible scenarios, and if there are possible unwanted situations, fix them. Even if it's unlikely to happens. This is how normal companies work.

    So I just give up, let's see if in the future our theories are flawed or not. By my part I retire. Enjoy your grind.
    Anamura, Sunnarea, Silenius, Neushiro, Wandrassa, Wuldar, Fingaladir, Meowear, Virgalia, Turgamar (Old Fegefeuer)
    Amilegeth, Wargarr, Shakarabash, Luklubuz, Grishlukashkahkh, Dashkanakh
    "One lag to lag them all and in the lagness lag them"

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    70
    Quote Originally Posted by Raninia View Post
    We're continuing to keep an eye on this, and appreciate your feedback, but please remember that the forums are a bubble within the community, and aren't representative of the wider community. I understand that many of you are probably dissatisfied with that answer, however, based on the data we have so far, we're comfortable with the decision we've made.
    A very elegant way of saying "Y'all know your opinions don't matter, right?". Why not just remove the forums then? Seems to be the trend for new mmos, might as well hop on then you won't have to worry about it. And don't answer with "We value your feedback", because noone values feedback from people who don't matter. I can definitely see the Daybreak influence has grown exponentially. Why not just go full-on Kander from EQ/EQ2 and say "Don't like it, leave."?
    Last edited by Karnaon; Dec 06 2021 at 03:32 AM.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
    Why don't you quote yourself from the other thread where you said that captain dps is tied to mastery traceries? In a post where the person complains about captain needing like 10 hits to kill a mob. You have no idea of balance but the worst is that your texts are contradictory.
    I think captain mastery traceries are somewhat outliers and should be fixed. Many of them exist from the first legendary system, so it shouldnt be a surprise. So both things may exist in the same time, bad mastery traceries distribution for captain and landscape pretty doable just with base legendaries without mastery traceries.

    I can say the same, you have no idea of balance but also dont understand my point of view. And even more probably dont respect devs decision in new system thinking you are better than them here. Idk why didnt you quote yourself from another thread here: "I don't care if Raninia or founder of SSG or president of the world says that traceries are a bonus and you just need the dps that you get with reforge." So ye, calm down, you are not the center of the universe.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Karnaon View Post
    A very elegant way of saying "Y'all know your opinions don't matter, right?". Why not just remove the forums then? Seems to be the trend for new mmos, might as well hop on then you won't have to worry about it. And don't answer with "We value your feedback", because noone values feedback from people who don't matter.
    Yeah, honestly I even feel stupid for thinking in all possible scenarios as game testers do to just being called hypothetical and flawed. We should stop doing the work for SSG so they get a proper testing team. I think now I understand why over many years people say they never listen and never test.

    Even if SSG wants to force certain gameplay, there are always going to be unwanted behaviors because you don't test. Adding caps to everything is your way to fight your undesirable playstyle but then you create unwanted behaviors like losing currency or gear getting unequipped. This is not problem of the player, this is YOUR flaws.

    But it's OK since this is lotro and everything is allowed.
    Last edited by Fegefeuer; Dec 06 2021 at 03:47 AM.
    Anamura, Sunnarea, Silenius, Neushiro, Wandrassa, Wuldar, Fingaladir, Meowear, Virgalia, Turgamar (Old Fegefeuer)
    Amilegeth, Wargarr, Shakarabash, Luklubuz, Grishlukashkahkh, Dashkanakh
    "One lag to lag them all and in the lagness lag them"

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunhard View Post
    I think captain mastery traceries are somewhat outliers and should be fixed. Many of them exist from the first legendary system, so it shouldnt be a surprise. So both things may exist in the same time, bad mastery traceries distribution for captain and landscape pretty doable just with base legendaries without mastery traceries.

    I can say the same, you have no idea of balance but also dont understand my point of view. And even more probably dont respect devs decision in new system thinking you are better than them here. Idk why didnt you quote yourself from another thread here: "I don't care if Raninia or founder of SSG or president of the world says that traceries are a bonus and you just need the dps that you get with reforge." So ye, calm down, you are not the center of the universe.
    Blind confidence in devs is the reason this game has become painful. But thanks for your comments, it shows a lot. Funny how people like you always start attacking personal. Can't care less about personal attacks. I'd say I'll see how this new LI system will age, but tbh I don't want to play like this. Enjoy your grind.
    Anamura, Sunnarea, Silenius, Neushiro, Wandrassa, Wuldar, Fingaladir, Meowear, Virgalia, Turgamar (Old Fegefeuer)
    Amilegeth, Wargarr, Shakarabash, Luklubuz, Grishlukashkahkh, Dashkanakh
    "One lag to lag them all and in the lagness lag them"

 

 
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