LI Feedback

[Joedangod]

I know of at least two changes coming related to this: We intend to drop them in higher values than one, and we have tech already in the works to apply multiple of the same kind at a time.

Honestly, is there any reason for this to be an item that players have to apply to their LI's instead of "XP" that just gets directly granted to the item to rank up the traceries? Thought the point of the rework was to reduce all the extra steps and general faffing about people have to deal with when working on LI's.

[Strider5548]

Honestly, is there any reason for this to be an item that players have to apply to their LI's instead of "XP" that just gets directly granted to the item to rank up the traceries? Thought the point of the rework was to reduce all the extra steps and generally faffing about people have to deal with when working on LI's.

I fully agree with this. We already have special types of XP in this game (i.e. mount XP, Virtue XP), can't we have a new type of XP that is auto bestowed upon completion of certain quests, deeds, monster kills, or however you would normally acquire these items?

It's a hassle to manage more items, it bloats the item DB further, and it creates work for the devs to have to figure out stupid things like how to apply multiple at once.

[anarky30]

The call to fate critical multiplier for minstrels is there. You got it on your list as missing.

Fixed, thanks!

[anarky30]

You also listed that every tanking related Word of Power and Word of Craft be replaced.

I can assure you that no tank regardless of their class and spec will look for BPE or Partial BPE when they can have pure -% incoming damage reduction or raw morale increase. unfortunately BPE just isn't good anymore unless it's a high %, which mostly comes from cooldowns as you wouldn't be able to get to relevant numbers without losing too many stats anymore. That is why I suggested removing or changing them to something else that tanks can actually use.

[anarky30]

I know of at least two changes coming related to this: We intend to drop them in higher values than one, and we have tech already in the works to apply multiple of the same kind at a time.

I would strongly suggest to push the idea into the team who is designing this to remove the Enhancement Runes, unless you drastically reduce the number required to max, you will pretty much recreate a worse system. I'm sure everyone would welcome this change and then it would create a really good LI design.

[Omen_Kaizer]

I would strongly suggest to push the idea into the team who is designing this to remove the Enhancement Runes, unless you drastically reduce the number required to max, you will pretty much recreate a worse system. I'm sure everyone would welcome this change and then it would create a really good LI design.

You and everyone else are upset with the # of enhancement runes needed because you assume theyll come at the same rate as empowerment scrolls and crystals. But you have no clue if itll be a trickle or a good flow, so you necessarily have no clue that this system represents a big grind or not.

[Seregthol]

Enhancement Runes:



Why is there 4 different tiers of Enhancement runes? Each tier should add different number of upgrades as the tier goes higher, also this is pretty much Scroll of Empowerment grind renamed with actually more grind as you need more than 40 Enhancement Runes per upgrade and there's a total of 13 upgradable slots per LI, so 26 per set resulting in needing 1,274 Enhancement Runes which is 4 times the amount of Scroll of Empowerments you would need on a brand new LI from start to max.

If this is true...I'm done. We all waited far too long for the "revamp" to be even worse of a grind.

[anarky30]

Well, what I was afraid of actually happened.
Update on LI:




GG.

[TexanHobbit]

But on plus side, they now show the cap level

Well, what I was afraid of actually happened.
Update on LI:




GG.

[cbfan14]

Well, what I was afraid of actually happened.
Update on LI:




GG.

So it's 10 MC per tracery level. At 10 MC per level I highly doubt anyone's going to want spend any MC on these; even a whale would see that price as too steep. If they really wanted to make money off of people, they should set the price at 1 MC per level. Unslotting traceries should have the same price (if they don't already). That way, it looks cheap enough on the surface for people to want to spend their money on the LIs.

[CloudCastle]

They also put a 1000 cap on ancient scripts. Depending on how hard these are to acquire, I wonder just how long it'll take to get our new LIs set up with the right legacies.

[Starstorm01]

???????????? I just wanted something simple that I didn't have to think about, not just another system or #### grind to add on top of all the others.

Couldn't you just copy and paste the skill trees or mounted combat trees. We use the existing runes to level and unlock points which r capped depending on your level.

[JERH]

Off the cuff question given the discussion.

How does mixing old LI and new LI work?

Can i have an old LI champ 2h with +174% crit dmg and +AOE damage with a new class LI with dps words and traceries one of which gives another +30% crit?

Can I keep the +60% light damage on mini old class LI and get the higher TDR and selected new words on traceries on a new main hand LI?

Can I stack a skill damage % legacy on an old class LI with a bonus tracery/word on the same skill on a new weapon LI?

I know the weapon dps is lower on old LIs but I may end experimenting on hybrid old/new depending on class.

Thanks.

[MAWorking]

My concern still lies with what happens with all of the mats we have been grinding for years?
They have to have a conversion value... they have to!
You cant punish us for grinding by making what we were grinding obsolete and then just to make it suck more... you have a new grind!

Please let us know how conversion is going to work.

[hillard1959]

My concern still lies with what happens with all of the mats we have been grinding for years?
They have to have a conversion value... they have to!
You cant punish us for grinding by making what we were grinding obsolete and then just to make it suck more... you have a new grind!

Please let us know how conversion is going to work.

No they don't. Let's be fair, here. They warned us months ago that all those things would be going away, not to horde them and that they were still discussing whether or not to offer any kind of trade in of our old LIs and scrolls, crystals and what not. AFAIK, that last question is still up in the air, but I won't be surprised if they're just obsolete come the changeover. Kinda like what happened to travelling rations, but on a much grander scale.

It would be very nice of them to allow us to convert all that stuff over so it doesn't go to waste. But we can't honestly expect them to. And they have been transparent about that.

[Strider5548]

Well, what I was afraid of actually happened.
Update on LI:




GG.

Putting aside everything else, anyone else kind of annoyed that 50% of the UI is just buttons to pay with MC? I count 14 MC buttons and 1 'Buy MC' button in that small portion of the window alone. Seriously get that #### out of here. It's fine to have an MC option but having your UI cluttered with constant PAY HERE PAY HERE PAY HERE options is obnoxious. How about using some of that real estate to give us a real UI window where we don't have to scroll all over the place just to see everything?

EDIT: Also interesting that there never seems to be an issue applying multiple levels of something when you are buying with MC (refer to slider bar in screenshot).

[wispsong]

???????????? I just wanted something simple that I didn't have to think about, not just another system or #### grind to add on top of all the others.

Couldn't you just copy and paste the skill trees or mounted combat trees. We use the existing runes to level and unlock points which r capped depending on your level.

Exactly this. With MC upgrades being there in your face again I doubt at this point that this revamp will actually be less grindy.

[maartena]

I know of at least two changes coming related to this: We intend to drop them in higher values than one, and we have tech already in the works to apply multiple of the same kind at a time.

Just a side question: How is this going to work on the Legendary Servers, in particular Treebeard? I am actually looking forward in being able to use the new legendary system from scratch in the level 51-60 range when Treebeard opens up to Moria and Lothlorien, and I am assuming that since we will see new content every 5-6 months, that people will have a chance to max out their LI's to what is then the current maximum for the level cap, and increase it from there.

I'm also worried about the re-grind. It took me a LONG time to max out my imbued legendary item to have tier 83 on all legacies, and I would not look forward to having to do that from scratch with a new LI system weapon. Will there be a way to trade a maxed out "regular" LI for a "new system" LI so people do not have to grind from scratch?

One of the biggest complaints about the current system is the LONG GRIND it takes for a player to max out a weapon, and those with more than one alt at level 130 will not be happy if they have to take on MONTHS of grinding to max out new LI system weapons....

[Fegefeuer]

Well, what I was afraid of actually happened.
Update on LI:




GG.

Lol goodbye lotro, it was a pleasure playing you for the past decade.

[Archiemundo]

I've been away from the game for a few months and was excited that LIs were finally getting reworked so jumped on here to catch up and I have to say that this looks terrible. It's just as convoluted and just as grindy. I get that they need to make money but this is just horrible.

[LadySelene]

They also put a 1000 cap on ancient scripts. Depending on how hard these are to acquire, I wonder just how long it'll take to get our new LIs set up with the right legacies.

What, caps? Meaning they go into the barter wallet and are bound to character?
(I don't have time to install and test the BR, I'm just reading the forum, so, asking dumb questions)

Does it mean you can't anymore level your alts' LIs by doing the content with your more powerful characters? You actually have to play the weaker alt, not welcome in instances and therefore having to engage into something you don't like? That's as close to "forget the alt" as possible.

And do you realise that caps actively discourage people from playing the content, once they're reached? We hate wasting stuff. Any of it.

[thinx]

Muahahaha.

The number of several 100 levels gives a hint of what we will get. They did not introduce 400 levels to give us 4 steps of 100 or 40 steps of 10. The median step size for the typical user will be 1.
We will be silenced in the first few releases by giving us the larger packages for some time and gradually decreasing their availibility/magnitude.

[CloudCastle]

What, caps? Meaning they go into the barter wallet and are bound to character?
(I don't have time to install and test the BR, I'm just reading the forum, so, asking dumb questions)

Does it mean you can't anymore level your alts' LIs by doing the content with your more powerful characters? You actually have to play the weaker alt, not welcome in instances and therefore having to engage into something you don't like? That's as close to "forget the alt" as possible.

And do you realise that caps actively discourage people from playing the content, once they're reached? We hate wasting stuff. Any of it.

Yes, after the patch yesterday, all the ancient scripts went into the barter wallet with a cap of 1000 scripts total. I forgot to check though to see if they where character bound or account bound. Cap feels very low and unwieldy. There are so many new tracery slots that just to fill out my 2 LIs so they were "complete" (not upgraded, just not empty) I was going back and forth to vendor to get more many times! I think if the cap isn't upped then putting together your LIs will feel like building a house with toothpicks, so I hope SSG reconsiders. I also hope that they are account bound. Making empowerment scrolls available through motes was one of the best changes the LI system ever got and to take that away would be a major blow for those of us who like flexibility in our playstyles. (And flexibility equals fun.)

Edited to add new thought: The patch also changed the currency amounts for different types of traceries. The lowest level ones only cost 10 scrolls per, so if that's all you were aiming for, then putting together your LIs would be much more doable. The highest level ones though were 200 scrolls plus a special token, which will probably only be available through raids.

[Raninia]

Yes, after the patch yesterday, all the ancient scripts went into the barter wallet with a cap of 1000 scripts total. I forgot to check though to see if they where character bound or account bound. Cap feels very low and unwieldy. There are so many new tracery slots that just to fill out my 2 LIs so they were "complete" (not upgraded, just not empty) I was going back and forth to vendor to get more many times! I think if the cap isn't upped then putting together your LIs will feel like building a house with toothpicks, so I hope SSG reconsiders. I also hope that they are account bound. Making empowerment scrolls available through motes was one of the best changes the LI system ever got and to take that away would be a major blow for those of us who like flexibility in our playstyles. (And flexibility equals fun.)

Edited to add new thought: The patch also changed the currency amounts for different types of traceries. The lowest level ones only cost 10 scrolls per, so if that's all you were aiming for, then putting together your LIs would be much more doable. The highest level ones though were 200 scrolls plus a special token, which will probably only be available through raids.

There's a lot in this thread, but now that I have the time, gonna start to respond a bit more consistently, starting here! I and others have spent a lot of time reading and passing feedback along, just haven't had the chance to reply this week.

Our thought on putting Ancient Script in the wallet is that it behaves like a currency, so it should go in the wallet, as it makes the most sense there. It also frees up an inventory slot, so that's often a plus.

I'm not sure whether the current implementation is character or account bound, I'll check with the team. I can see a reasonable case for either, but I would personally like it to be more alt-friendly than not, as that's one of the things we were hoping to work on with this revamp. The team might have some very good reasons for it to be character bound however, so I'll check with them before confirming.

I think the cap is certainly subject to change. That'll potentially be adjusted as we continue to iterate and implement the economy, pieces of which I believe are already in, enough to give folks a sense of where things are headed. I don't know all the details myself, but from what I've been told, we want to make general levelling progression pretty smooth and easy, so you should get a healthy amount of traceries and enhancement runes as you level. You should be able to upgrade relatively consistently as you go along, and our goal is that you can confidently get to cap without having to do any real grind. Of course, if you want to grind as you level because you want everything to always be capped, that's a choice you can make, but we're not intending to force you, and we'll be balancing away from that. As such, Ancient Scripts aren't going to be the main way you get traceries, but they'll be the most reliable way to get the ones you want specifically. So while the cap feels very important now, since y'all are interacting with the system pretty much exclusively through the barter, that's not representative of what the experience will generally be like several months after the revamp goes live, particularly when levelling; it'll mostly be something you're engaging with more at cap, while progressing through endgame.

[OldManMagic]

There's a lot in this thread, but now that I have the time, gonna start to respond a bit more consistently, starting here! I and others have spent a lot of time reading and passing feedback along, just haven't had the chance to reply this week.

Our thought on putting Ancient Script in the wallet is that it behaves like a currency, so it should go in the wallet, as it makes the most sense there. It also frees up an inventory slot, so that's often a plus.

I'm not sure whether the current implementation is character or account bound, I'll check with the team. I can see a reasonable case for either, but I would personally like it to be more alt-friendly than not, as that's one of the things we were hoping to work on with this revamp. The team might have some very good reasons for it to be character bound however, so I'll check with them before confirming.

I think the cap is certainly subject to change. That'll potentially be adjusted as we continue to iterate and implement the economy, pieces of which I believe are already in, enough to give folks a sense of where things are headed. I don't know all the details myself, but from what I've been told, we want to make general levelling progression pretty smooth and easy, so you should get a healthy amount of traceries and enhancement runes as you level. You should be able to upgrade relatively consistently as you go along, and our goal is that you can confidently get to cap without having to do any real grind. Of course, if you want to grind as you level because you want everything to always be capped, that's a choice you can make, but we're not intending to force you, and we'll be balancing away from that. As such, Ancient Scripts aren't going to be the main way you get traceries, but they'll be the most reliable way to get the ones you want specifically. So while the cap feels very important now, since y'all are interacting with the system pretty much exclusively through the barter, that's not representative of what the experience will generally be like several months after the revamp goes live, particularly when levelling; it'll mostly be something you're engaging with more at cap, while progressing through endgame.

Raninia,

I recall someone, either an interview with you or on +Cord of the Rings, that the revamp was not going to be a "one and done" process but would be a process of Updates. Is this still the case, and what we had on BR is an early look at the first part of the Revamp?