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  1. #1

    Please join us as we celebrate 7 years of non-development

    LOTRO's PVMP community is coming together for our annual celebration of being the longest-undeveloped part of the game.

    It has now been 7 years since the last meaningful update to PVMP - a longer run of non-development than any other part of the game (we know we checked). As the developers manage to put in at least some minor tweaks to practically everything from music to old instances, PVMP has intentionally been left out of the development loop and has consistently been negatively impacted by every major update without any modernization effort.

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...pment-for-PVMP

    Join us as we celebrate 7 years!
    The Black Appendage of Sauron

  2. #2
    whie I sort of sympathise
    Questions to ask
    1. Do you make money for the game?
    2. Are the changes easy to make?
    3. Taking #1 and #2 into account are there enough of you to warrant same, comepared to those who might, as an example, do a festival?

    It does appear that festival stuff has a high profile. I'm not a great doer of PvMP or festivals, and was musing on such lately. I have enjoyed taking our kinship Stout Axe rabble to the Moors at around L25 or so and getting a couple of ranks, that's a serious giggle, even if the aficionados got very ill tempered over it.
    Mithithil Ithryndi

  3. #3
    You forgot a relevant question

    #4. Do they advertise PVMP as a feature of the game.

    The answer is yes.

    if it just went by popularity as you suggest, and there are a lot of pvmp'ers. I would bet it's far more popular then "Epic Big Battles system" which they force upon you for epic story too. if they want to get rid of something get rid of that.
    Cheesiepoofs Bane of Vilya

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Seglord View Post
    You forgot a relevant question

    #4. Do they advertise PVMP as a feature of the game.

    The answer is yes.

    if it just went by popularity as you suggest, and there are a lot of pvmp'ers. I would bet it's far more popular then "Epic Big Battles system" which they force upon you for epic story too. if they want to get rid of something get rid of that.
    This.


    PVMP has a very passionate community, yet is routinely passed over in favor of things that no one asked for and that have no passionate community behind them.

    PVMP is a VIP feature with lots of monetization already cooked in. The only possible explanation for the neglect is that it is being intentionally left out of development plans.
    The Black Appendage of Sauron

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithithil View Post
    1. Do you make money for the game?
    Freeps have to be VIP if they want to enter Moors or spend mithril coins to gain access and if I remember correctly, on the creepside the only free class to play is reaver. If you want to try another class, you have to buy it with LP. Not to mention, that you can buy almost every skill for your creep in the lotro store, which is quite sad, makes the ranks quite pointless.

    In short, you have to spend money to be able to participate in pvp.
    From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
    A light from the shadows shall spring;
    Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
    The crownless again shall be king.

  6. #6
    I don't know about this. In my time in Lotro I remember some pvmp developments. Creep skins, Osgiliath, stat tweaking. I can't for the life of me recall any love towards kinships that are essentially still no more than a chat channel.
    “ädvëntürës ärë nöt äll pönÿ-rïdës ïn mäÿ-sünshïnë.”

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by NeebPlayer View Post
    I don't know about this. In my time in Lotro I remember some pvmp developments. Creep skins, Osgiliath, stat tweaking. I can't for the life of me recall any love towards kinships that are essentially still no more than a chat channel.
    Problem is that nobody asked for the Osgiliath map if I remember correctly. It was just added to shut pvp'ers up and give rank farmers a whole map to cheat. If it would have been designed better, people might have even played there, but there's just no incentive to even go there. Moors is much more familiar and better designed.

    I agree on kinships revamp, funnily enough, my first post on these forums 6 years ago was on a thread that someone made, with lots of ideas on how kinships could be improved.

    Here's the link of that thread. There are some very good ideas there. https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...evamp-Proposal
    From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
    A light from the shadows shall spring;
    Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
    The crownless again shall be king.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seglord View Post
    I would bet it's far more popular then "Epic Big Battles system" which they force upon you for epic story too. if they want to get rid of something get rid of that.
    They DID get rid of the "forced for epic story".

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerguc View Post
    Problem is that nobody asked for the Osgiliath map if I remember correctly. It was just added to shut pvp'ers up and give rank farmers a whole map to cheat. If it would have been designed better, people might have even played there, but there's just no incentive to even go there. Moors is much more familiar and better designed.

    I agree on kinships revamp, funnily enough, my first post on these forums 6 years ago was on a thread that someone made, with lots of ideas on how kinships could be improved.

    Here's the link of that thread. There are some very good ideas there. https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...evamp-Proposal
    This is because the self-righteous pricks think they can tell you how to enjoy the game. This is what they genuinely think to this day. This is why everything is always half-baked. There is no reason to play in Osgiliath, because no amount of convincing will make them realize they can't tell you how to play. They can't tell you something is its own reward, because most people don't work that way. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to attack anyone, but what is it if not ARROGANCE that prevents them from seeing things don't work the way they imagine? If there is no benefit in using a feature (like mounted combat) or playing certain content (like old instances) people just won't. I will play through everything once or twice, but in an MMO this is not the goal. Things need to be repeatable and for that to happen they need to afford tangible benefits.

    As for that kinship thread, I'm 100% sure they never did any of that simply because a player suggested it.
    “ädvëntürës ärë nöt äll pönÿ-rïdës ïn mäÿ-sünshïnë.”

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Saruman_Of_Numbers View Post
    LOTRO's PVMP community is coming together for our annual celebration of being the longest-undeveloped part of the game.

    It has now been 7 years since the last meaningful update to PVMP - a longer run of non-development than any other part of the game (we know we checked). As the developers manage to put in at least some minor tweaks to practically everything from music to old instances, PVMP has intentionally been left out of the development loop and has consistently been negatively impacted by every major update without any modernization effort.

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...pment-for-PVMP

    Join us as we celebrate 7 years!
    Hmm... what about the hobby system? Has there been any change since fishing was released in 2008?

    But I agree with you. I really don't understand why pvmp is ignored so much. Quite a lot of people seem to partake in it, especially on some evenings. And it has such potential. Even without big updates, it shouldn't be too hard to balance it a bit. I realise they have to balance freeps all the time for pve, but they can at least buff the creeps now and then.
    "The leaves were long, the grass was green, The hemlock-umbels tall and fair, And in the glade a light was seen Of stars in shadow shimmering.
    Tinuviel was dancing there To music of a pipe unseen, And light of stars was in her hair, And in her raiment glimmering. [...]" ~ J.R.R. Tolkien

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seglord View Post
    ... I would bet it's far more popular then "Epic Big Battles system" which they force upon you for epic story too. ...
    /OT: They don't anymore, there is story mode now for the BB haters (like me).

  12. #12
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    PVmP?

    I give you MC. Loads more important to me.

    Signing a check to SSG for 100 million bucks, caveat, don't touch PVmP.
    The Elruthrim Brethren of Crickhollow
    Marancil CHN, Historian Calchiar CPT, Explorer Sturmdrang WDN, Woodsman Anancite GRD, Armourer Tarostel HNT, Armsman Angredeth HNT, Tinker Dromarong GRD, Dwarf

    The Lord of the Rings Online: Community Discord

  13. #13
    Since creeps are intimately linked with npc monsters out there in pve land in ways they don't really seem to understand, dabbling in pvmp has in the past bitten them in the ### with unintended consequences.

    I think they gave up and will just let it play out.

    So no, i don't think its on any dev plans

    Would love to be wrong but i doubt it.
    .

    Mortem Tyrannis

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mithithil View Post
    It does appear that festival stuff has a high profile.
    The age of the Festival is over.

    In more ways than one.

    Now SSG is combining festivals. The whole year consists of constant repeating festivals to the point there isn't enough space for new ones.

    Once fervent festivals goers are seeking the shores of other games because the rewards for continually doing the same festival paces isn't worth the time.


    PvMP: SSG hasn't kept their word on this system. Perhaps one day they will see their error, but I'm not holding onto any life raft waiting for rescue. There is land out their begging to be trod upon.

  15. #15
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    Our kin was discussing what it would be like if they added Monster Housing. How cool would it be to decorate your own little monster home with buckets of slop and broken furniture? And seeing that the reaver class is free, at least everyone could at least access it in some capacity.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeirdJedi View Post
    Our kin was discussing what it would be like if they added Monster Housing. How cool would it be to decorate your own little monster home with buckets of slop and broken furniture? And seeing that the reaver class is free, at least everyone could at least access it in some capacity.
    It wouldn't be cool at all. What would be if SSG fixed PvMP and not get distracted by moronic ideas on the fringes of PvMP.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    The age of the Festival is over.

    In more ways than one.

    Now SSG is combining festivals. The whole year consists of constant repeating festivals to the point there isn't enough space for new ones.
    This is wrong. They combined a festival to make room for a new one, lol. They work on festivals because people ask for them. They add festival encores because people ask for them. They can see how many people play the festivals and how much money they make off of them.

    If they are looking at numbers and income, I can only guess that pvmp isn't making as much as festivals, sadly. Don't misunderstand me--I miss the heyday of the moors as much as anyone. Unfortunately, I just don't see it coming back unless they either start from scratch or make a separate pvmp world (preferably level capped and everyone starting at the same level)

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapienze View Post
    It wouldn't be cool at all. What would be if SSG fixed PvMP and not get distracted by moronic ideas on the fringes of PvMP.
    I think it would be VERY cool, lol. After a hard day in the field, coming back to your little hovel for a well deserved bowl of slop sprinkled with elf ears and hobbit toes....

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by WeirdJedi View Post
    Our kin was discussing what it would be like if they added Monster Housing. How cool would it be to decorate your own little monster home with buckets of slop and broken furniture? And seeing that the reaver class is free, at least everyone could at least access it in some capacity.
    When the game just launched I thought they might make creeps being able to level-up later on as the game progressed. With Mordor as a starter area, because I never thought we were ever going into Mordor with the free peoples. How wrong was I, but it would've been interesting nonetheless. In hindsight I don't think it would've been a very good idea though.
    "The leaves were long, the grass was green, The hemlock-umbels tall and fair, And in the glade a light was seen Of stars in shadow shimmering.
    Tinuviel was dancing there To music of a pipe unseen, And light of stars was in her hair, And in her raiment glimmering. [...]" ~ J.R.R. Tolkien

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Starliteyes View Post
    They DID get rid of the "forced for epic story".
    Quote Originally Posted by OghranNasty View Post
    /OT: They don't anymore, there is story mode now for the BB haters (like me).
    Yes, I appreciate they did for helms deep, and then they take you by surprise at in War for Gondor, where taking Pelagir (can't imagine a solo single target player getting through this without a lot of deaths), the defense of Minas Tirith, or Hammer of Under world. with 0 promotion points, and no time invested whatsoever at that point.

    Maybe it's me but I saw no storied tale on those.
    Cheesiepoofs Bane of Vilya

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starliteyes View Post
    This is wrong. They combined a festival to make room for a new one, lol. They work on festivals because people ask for them. They add festival encores because people ask for them. They can see how many people play the festivals and how much money they make off of them.

    If they are looking at numbers and income, I can only guess that pvmp isn't making as much as festivals, sadly. Don't misunderstand me--I miss the heyday of the moors as much as anyone. Unfortunately, I just don't see it coming back unless they either start from scratch or make a separate pvmp world (preferably level capped and everyone starting at the same level)
    You make a number of assumptions not based on reality.

    First off, you deny there are two festivals currently running simultaneously. That is if they haven't ended already. Also I believe there is an overlap of the Wedding, Hobnanigans cycles due to server outages. In any case these are of a continuous nature without any days to spare room.

    Festivals aren't created because of a plurality or even multitude of requests by the players. If even once true on one given day, that is not the case in general. Having one dozen players inquire about festivals does not make your sentence truth. However it does give SSG an excuse to create more because some person making decisions got all warm and fuzzy reading one forum thread once and decided there was a calling to keep perpetuating easy development content.

    Limited timing to create the sense of scarcity. I laugh in the face of false demand. It amounts to market manipulation in the real world and is often employed in the gaming world. "Get it now while supplies last." At a basic level of marketing its the oldest trick in the world. So ya people ask for encores. Have you a clue why? There is much more psychology behind these festival encores, but I'll leave that to you to work it out. Ever read about the evolution and history of an encore? Take some time and do this and you'll find an encore was made illegal in Europe in some countries for specific reasons. Some of which apply here, or should perhaps here in some fashion.

    Wait...

    You think Festivals make SSG money? At best they keep SSG from losing money. Do players return for Festivals? You bet they do and I also bet the average returning player is on a free to play/premium account. Do they use and or purchase LP? Sure they do, yet how is that different from a players going VIP to PvP or purchasing LP to use on Creepside? A good portion of loyal festival goers are using many accounts repeating the same actions/quest lines over and over again. What may seem like one dozen players active during a festival can often be one player cycling through alts. Now days we can see multiboxers at festivals syncing their tribe with bound keys preforming illegal actions which would in the Moors get a permaban.

    You can't compare using good faith the amount of revenue generated between one system being overly endorsed by SSG and another being diminished and ignored for over eight years.

    Lastly I'll link this thread.

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...om-SSG-on-PvMP


    A thread about PvMP created almost one year ago. A thread from a greatly diminished PvP community with far more consensus and participation than any festival thread. It is a near miracle to find this many people in positive agreement on any section or system in this game and that's after thousands of players already conceded LotRO's PvMP is dead.


    So, don't tell me the era of Festivals hasn't already reached its peak. Unless SSG can add more days to the year or make their "limited time" marketing of festivals even shorter, this is as good as it gets. On the other hand if SSG did manage to meet the challenge of fixing the existing PvMP, festivals would fall by the wayside in revenue generation.

  22. #22
    I think such a happy occasion calls for a blue name post.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Brolad View Post
    I think such a happy occasion calls for a blue name post.
    Didn't we just have a full pvp event with new temporary server and all? I didn't join but it sure looked like it.


    By the way -

    the very few very vocal pvp people were the most horrible in chat in this game. Can't say they sold me on the idea.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Curioser View Post
    Didn't we just have a full pvp event with new temporary server and all? I didn't join but it sure looked like it.


    By the way -

    the very few very vocal pvp people were the most horrible in chat in this game. Can't say they sold me on the idea.
    Bombadil freep vs freep PvP is something completely unrelated to this thread.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeirdJedi View Post
    Our kin was discussing what it would be like if they added Monster Housing. How cool would it be to decorate your own little monster home with buckets of slop and broken furniture? And seeing that the reaver class is free, at least everyone could at least access it in some capacity.
    They never want to show that side of bad guys, because Tolkien don't have such things. We don't have orc womens, we don't have orc childrens, we don't have orc towns, we don't have orc civilisation. Grams working as small fort founded by orcs. Hard to believe what we can have huge orc homestead not far from Rivendell. Also, how you can create houses for spiders and wargs? They don't live in houses.

 

 
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