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  1. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Elmagor View Post
    If they make any progress, you must already know about it, right?
    No, why would I? These problems come and go. Arkenstone's up and running at the moment, but that means nothing.
    Gyes, et al
    Monarch, Paladins of Asheron
    Arkenstone

  2. #127
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    3,167
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyes View Post
    No, why would I? These problems come and go. Arkenstone's up and running at the moment, but that means nothing.
    Well, if problems go away...

  3. #128
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    Dec 2019
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    2,372
    The gist of the live stream was that no one at SSG is "working on it" over the weekend. Implication it's just the normal crew.

    This at least gives us players some clues as to the best times of the day to get some play in without interference.

    It being out of their control doesn't mean that SSG weren't contributors: it's not like they weren't making infrastructure changes at the datacenter at the time, switched on transfers to both US and EU from this "new" server type and made a SQL software change. Along side dismissing any notion of long term coding issues. This without any third party involvement.

    The investment of putting all this into place was supposed to have a payoff.

    Cord having your back without then addressing the failing is the eternal Turbine/SSG problem.

  4. #129
    My game just froze after barely 30 minutes of gameplay. I'd say the correct description is "intermittent to frequent." I expect to be able to play for two hours when I set some time aside for it. Most raids that I've been in have been two hours long, if not longer. At no time did I go AFK, so it's not that. But the chat server seemed to freak out.

    I seem to be connected to chat channels I never bother with and I keep off, like the regional channel. And the user channels. I used to have glff, but once these problems started, that went away, and that was only user channel 1. Now I log in and I have user channels 1 and 2 and sometimes 3 connected. (To what?) Fishy, very fishy.

  5. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Shirewhistle View Post
    My game just froze after barely 30 minutes of gameplay. I'd say the correct description is "intermittent to frequent." I expect to be able to play for two hours when I set some time aside for it. Most raids that I've been in have been two hours long, if not longer. At no time did I go AFK, so it's not that. But the chat server seemed to freak out.

    I seem to be connected to chat channels I never bother with and I keep off, like the regional channel. And the user channels. I used to have glff, but once these problems started, that went away, and that was only user channel 1. Now I log in and I have user channels 1 and 2 and sometimes 3 connected. (To what?) Fishy, very fishy.
    Lucky you, i haven't been able to be on for more than 5 minutes.

    Honestly, i don't mind the server issues, what annoys me though is the lack of information.
    I get that they might not be allowed to say exactly what the issue is but this is getting ridiculous, especially keeping in mind what happened about a month ago i guess.

  6. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Braer View Post
    The gist of the live stream was that no one at SSG is "working on it" over the weekend. Implication it's just the normal crew.
    He didn't say that, he said it was unlikely going to resolved over the weekend. It will likely require a downtime to implement the changes and I doubt they would do it over a weekend.

    This at least gives us players some clues as to the best times of the day to get some play in without interference.
    It is hard to predict when it goes crazy.

    It being out of their control doesn't mean that SSG weren't contributors: it's not like they weren't making infrastructure changes at the datacenter at the time, switched on transfers to both US and EU from this "new" server type and made a SQL software change. Along side dismissing any notion of long term coding issues. This without any third party involvement.
    Everything is under their control, however, if the problem is with a third party (ie whomever is supplying their servers or bandwidth or whatever) it might not be a problem they can fix themselves. Ie, if your ISP has a line fault and their service is ####/down, it is not something you can do about it, you need them to fix it and if you have contract with them or don't have much in the way of options then your hands might be tied.

    The investment of putting all this into place was supposed to have a payoff.
    We don't really know what the problem is, they are vague on details.

    Cord having your back without then addressing the failing is the eternal Turbine/SSG problem.
    It would be difficult doing his job given the environment. I doubt their mediocre communication problem is at his choosing, it has always been the same long before he was there and it has at times been a lot worse.

    I am not sure if it's a Boston thing or not, but there have only been a handful of people who have engaged with the community, perhaps they find everyone here as annoying as people here find the communication, or lack thereof.

  7. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Elmagor View Post
    Well, if problems go away...
    You may want to google the term "intermittent".
    Gyes, et al
    Monarch, Paladins of Asheron
    Arkenstone

  8. #133
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
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    2,372
    The contrast with the DDO forums is that they have peeps who know the game and engage with the players. And players who have dice rolls (chance) in their DNA.

  9. #134
    And again I'm back to about 2-5 min of play before it becomes unplayable. This was Sunday, I didn't have time to come to the forums and tell you. I wont have time to try again for a day or two.

    I wish there was an official Summer of 2020 outages thread because there are a thousand of them. I don't know which to use. Since Cordovan replied to this one, I'm saying it here. /shrug

    What happened? When does SSG expect it to stop? No answers.

  10. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyes View Post
    You may want to google the term "intermittent".
    Or "frequent" which is what this is. I haven't managed to be online longer than 2 hours. Usually it's more like 30 minutes, before unplayable packet loss sets in.

    "Repeatable" is also a good description.

  11. #136
    Gave it a try this morning, got "General Error 0x0000000E" twice while using vault. I was not in combat or anything, just standing in a city. I wasn't playing long, just got my hobbit present and did some bag cleanup. Not sure about loss, didn't see any while I was on. Twitter is 4 days old. Not sure about FB, I don't read that.

  12. #137
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    63
    Today, there are some troubles with new patch in EVE Echoes, and the maintenance had to be extended. CCP is updating players every hour or so, and this is the latest post.

    WATCH AND LEARN SSG how to handle a mess!

    "Dear Pilots,
    We are still fixing an expected technical issue. Unfortunately, we have to further extend the maintenance time and are unable to provide an exact completion time at this moment. We apologize for all inconvenience caused, and promise all players will get compensated for the extended maintenance, as listed below:
    1. All players will receive 20,000 Skill Points as we planned ealier, due to the extended regular maintenance.
    2. Since the maintenance is extended again at this point, all players will receive another 30,000 Skill Points.
    3. If the server is not up until 16:00 UTC, 26 AUG, for every extra hour of maintenance, all players will receive extra 5,000 Skill Points.
    4. In conclusion, all players will receive at least 50,000 skill points, depends on actual maintenance duration
    5. We will create an exclusive medal and deliver to all players who created their characters before 26 Aug, to thank you for staying with us.

    Again, we sincerely apologize for the inconvenience."

  13. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Anglion1 View Post
    Today, there are some troubles with new patch in EVE Echoes, and the maintenance had to be extended. CCP is updating players every hour or so, and this is the latest post.

    WATCH AND LEARN SSG how to handle a mess!

    "Dear Pilots,
    We are still fixing an expected technical issue. Unfortunately, we have to further extend the maintenance time and are unable to provide an exact completion time at this moment. We apologize for all inconvenience caused, and promise all players will get compensated for the extended maintenance, as listed below:
    1. All players will receive 20,000 Skill Points as we planned ealier, due to the extended regular maintenance.
    2. Since the maintenance is extended again at this point, all players will receive another 30,000 Skill Points.
    3. If the server is not up until 16:00 UTC, 26 AUG, for every extra hour of maintenance, all players will receive extra 5,000 Skill Points.
    4. In conclusion, all players will receive at least 50,000 skill points, depends on actual maintenance duration
    5. We will create an exclusive medal and deliver to all players who created their characters before 26 Aug, to thank you for staying with us.

    Again, we sincerely apologize for the inconvenience."


    Well done.

    I hope someone at SSG reads this.

  14. #139

    Blueprint? First change your job description

    First, regarding EVE:
    1) EVE has had a stable (if not very large) player base for well over a decade. It hasn't gone down at all despite the many years - so one point of comparison to LOTRO.
    2) EVE takes its community extremely seriously. They don't expect players to be meek and quiet and indeed they are not. Some may call them over loud.
    3) EVE has community managers, and that is what they do. They talk to the community. They inform them. They suffer a little abuse, but they do their job, and not even the most vehement talkers dispute this.

    Now to LOTRO:
    Cordovan
    Community Manager
    That is Cordovan's self proclaimed job title. I didn't give it to him, none of the posters here did either, he was given this title by the company he works for.
    So, DO YOUR GODDAMN JOB and manage the community. Talk to it, inform it, and if the lawyers (as some suggested) limit what you can say, get from them what you can say, and pass that on.
    What you can not do, is be a "community manager" who never talks to the community.

  15. #140
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
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    14
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold-I View Post
    First, regarding EVE:
    1) EVE has had a stable (if not very large) player base for well over a decade. It hasn't gone down at all despite the many years - so one point of comparison to LOTRO.
    2) EVE takes its community extremely seriously. They don't expect players to be meek and quiet and indeed they are not. Some may call them over loud.
    3) EVE has community managers, and that is what they do. They talk to the community. They inform them. They suffer a little abuse, but they do their job, and not even the most vehement talkers dispute this.

    Now to LOTRO:
    Cordovan
    Community Manager
    That is Cordovan's self proclaimed job title. I didn't give it to him, none of the posters here did either, he was given this title by the company he works for.
    So, DO YOUR GODDAMN JOB and manage the community. Talk to it, inform it, and if the lawyers (as some suggested) limit what you can say, get from them what you can say, and pass that on.
    What you can not do, is be a "community manager" who never talks to the community.
    I think he's sulking at the moment

  16. #141
    Kinda feel that SSG is like Fight Club.

    1st RULE: You do not talk about SERVER INSTABILITY
    2nd RULE: You DO NOT talk about SERVER INSTABILITY
    ETC...


    There were 2 notices of a problem 'beyond our control' on 8/20 and //24, but no statement that the problem has been fixed.

    Not feeling warm and fuzzy over this, me thinks that it is a matter of time before the duct tape / bubble gum / hairpin fix falls apart again.
    Last 'fix' for a week of downtime lasted only a month before returning, this last round was about 5 days. No apologies, no trinkets for the downtime like last time.
    They act like the game was actually playable during the server instability period.

    I am patiently awaiting SSG's final statement of 'So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish'

  17. #142
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold-I View Post
    First, regarding EVE:
    1) EVE has had a stable (if not very large) player base for well over a decade. It hasn't gone down at all despite the many years - so one point of comparison to LOTRO.
    2) EVE takes its community extremely seriously. They don't expect players to be meek and quiet and indeed they are not. Some may call them over loud.
    3) EVE has community managers, and that is what they do. They talk to the community. They inform them. They suffer a little abuse, but they do their job, and not even the most vehement talkers dispute this.

    Now to LOTRO:
    Cordovan
    Community Manager
    That is Cordovan's self proclaimed job title. I didn't give it to him, none of the posters here did either, he was given this title by the company he works for.
    So, DO YOUR GODDAMN JOB and manage the community. Talk to it, inform it, and if the lawyers (as some suggested) limit what you can say, get from them what you can say, and pass that on.
    What you can not do, is be a "community manager" who never talks to the community.
    Community Managers would love to do their job and inform everyone on what's going on, however, we're forgetting that it's their higher-ups that call the shots. If the higher-ups tell them that they can only say this, or that, then not only does that give the player base frustration, but the CMs as well. Cordovan, whether you love or hate the guy, is in an unenviable position of damned-if-I-do or damned-if-I-don't, and has been in that position ever since the other game and company that shall-not-be-mentioned.

  18. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Anglion1 View Post
    Today, there are some troubles with new patch in EVE Echoes, and the maintenance had to be extended. CCP is updating players every hour or so, and this is the latest post.

    WATCH AND LEARN SSG how to handle a mess!

    "Dear Pilots,
    We are still fixing an expected technical issue. Unfortunately, we have to further extend the maintenance time and are unable to provide an exact completion time at this moment. We apologize for all inconvenience caused, and promise all players will get compensated for the extended maintenance, as listed below:
    1. All players will receive 20,000 Skill Points as we planned ealier, due to the extended regular maintenance.
    2. Since the maintenance is extended again at this point, all players will receive another 30,000 Skill Points.
    3. If the server is not up until 16:00 UTC, 26 AUG, for every extra hour of maintenance, all players will receive extra 5,000 Skill Points.
    4. In conclusion, all players will receive at least 50,000 skill points, depends on actual maintenance duration
    5. We will create an exclusive medal and deliver to all players who created their characters before 26 Aug, to thank you for staying with us.

    Again, we sincerely apologize for the inconvenience."
    What this and the previous communication have in common, is that the team has confidence in themselves that they can handle the issues they are facing. They seem to acknowledge that some of them may be more than they can handle, but they expect themselves to be good enough to fix it. I don't feel the same confidence from SSG. Without drama, I am scared and sad because of that. IT workers should be brash and arrogant. It's part of the job description. Performing magic is written right there between the lines. When you stop believing you can do the impossible, almost immediately, you hesitate and cause bigger problems. You can bureaucrat your way into problems with networks and computers. You either have to have absolute change control, or cowboys (or cowgirls), you can't do something in the middle and succeed. Well not in my experience.

    And never give control of your environment to someone else. That's never a cost savings. Yeah you think they're "responsible for it" but suing them isn't going to give your customers any satisfaction.

  19. #144
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    63
    Look at this (again from CCP to EVE Echoes players):

    "An update on the latest progress:
    Q: What is happening now? Why is the maintenance taking so long?
    A: After today's version update, we had encountered a bug that randomly caused certain star systems to crash. Upon further analysis, it was shown to only occur whenever a star system had a huge number of pilots.

    Q: Is my Omega Time being wasted while the server is down?
    A: Fortunately, your Omega clone time isn't being wasted at all. Please rest assured: Your skills are still being trained during this period. If there is no skill in your queue, then free skill points will be generated as normal.

    Q: So it’s 5,000 SP/hr now?
    A: Yes it is. It's also separate from the SP accrued by your characters. For example, if your character accrues 4500 SP/hour, then you will receive an additional 5000 SP/hour (for a total of your normal SP/hour + an additional 5000 SP/hour). Please note that this compensation applies to both Alpha and Omega players.

    Again, we will keep everyone updated ASAP once we receive news on the progress. Thanks again for your continued patience and support.

    Star System Fix - We Need Your Help

    After today's version update, we had encountered a bug that randomly caused certain star systems to crash. Upon further analysis, it was shown to only occur whenever a star system had a huge number of pilots. We need your help to test out our current fix for this.

    In order to prevent any potential losses, we will go with a more conservative test plan and open up a test server for this fix in a few minutes (19:45 UTC). This test server will have the same data (your characters/ships, etc.) as the official server, but anything that happens here won't carry over to the main server.

    Please try out the test server and see if the issue is solved. If so, then we will open the official server ASAP.

    And again, the test server is scheduled to be available in a few minutes (19:45 UTC). We look forward to getting everything confirmed so we can resume our normal operation! When you enter the game, be sure to select the test server "test".

    Thanks again for your continued support and patience! "

    SSG DO YOU SEE THIS?!!

    Detailed explanation of what is going on, what steps have been taken!!

  20. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Anglion1 View Post
    SSG DO YOU SEE THIS?!!

    Detailed explanation of what is going on, what steps have been taken!!
    Every company is different, SSG is using a third party host to run the servers, It is quite possible they cannot say much cause of Legal and NDA stuff, this all just a guess, but that's how it is with some companies, some want more details but there's a reason we aren't getting any. I personally don't care to know more cause we already get an idea of what happened if just read what has been said over time in different threads by Cordovan.
    Pontin Level 140 Hobbit Burglar Leader of Second Breakfast Crickhollow Server.
    other classes: Minstrel, Guardian, Captain, Hunter.

    Taken many Screenshots of Middle-earth, Also a Moderator of the LotRO Community Discord server

  21. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Borophir View Post
    Community Managers would love to do their job and inform everyone on what's going on, however, we're forgetting that it's their higher-ups that call the shots. If the higher-ups tell them that they can only say this, or that, then not only does that give the player base frustration, but the CMs as well. Cordovan, whether you love or hate the guy, is in an unenviable position of damned-if-I-do or damned-if-I-don't, and has been in that position ever since the other game and company that shall-not-be-mentioned.
    So, just out of curiosity; what does he do? Do you honestly beleive 'higher ups'make these calls? They enlist people like Cordovan to advise them and based on the feedback they're given by people like Cordovan, they'll set up a battle plan.

    Let's look at his post.

    'Grizzled veteran'? You have grizzled veterans who actively add to teams and then you have those who stick around, doing what they're supposed to do with the least amount of conviction and resolve, with the least amount of effort required. Look at ESO community managers. Look at Warframe's, Path of Exile's, ... Is this a fulltime job for him? If it is, then again; what does he do? How do you fill 8hrs a day doing what he does here? Is he setting up events the way Sapience was? Is he as active as Frelorn was? And let's not even talk about Patience (memory a bit hazy here, I must admit).

    Standard of service he's unwilling to commit to. The horror; a manager having to commit to a better standard than what we're used to. That's not part of the job description... is it? If anything, I feel the standard has gone way waaay down and that applies to both Severlin and Frelorn. When did we get our developer letter again? Right... Sapience was a despot at times, but he was, well, managing the community. Frelorn a lot less so, but made up in other departments and was actively aware of what was going on.

    Ugh, I don't want people to lose jobs over this and I don't want to be sour, but I really do not see his added value to any of this and as clearly shown by so many, the way of handling this is just mindboggling. And where is Severlin? The community manager is thrown to the wolves, getting torn apart (rightfully so, but still) and he is where exactly? Doing what exactly? There's only 2 things this game has; setting and community. Being such a valueble asset', why is it's management so questionable? The majority of it has lost faith and became sour, but worse yet; it's become divided.

    There's things you cannot control; however lame an excuse it may be, we understand that, but what is within your control should be handled way better.

  22. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Draugris View Post
    I work in IT for nearly 25 years now
    Quote Originally Posted by Arandhras View Post
    I also work in IT within a Software-as-a-Service company for "big" clients
    So you have both worked in IT for some periods of time? Then what how can you not understand - a) confidentiality b) an understanding that until an issue is resolved there will be no single person or company to blame until a full review is completed c) if the issue turns out to be a critical supplier i.e. the company who supplies your hardware or the owner of your managed service, do you really think they are going "throw them under the bus" as a term that has been quoted? Not a chance... d) then it comes down to professionalism which it seems something you are both lacking in if you think you can call someone or a business partner out publicly for something.

    Of course we are talking publicly now, I am sure internally whichever contractors are involved in this are being pressured hugely to resolve it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draugris View Post
    And I find that you are a shill
    I find this disgusting behaviour and again shows your immaturity and it has been reported.
    WHY DO PEOPLE WHO KNOW THE LEAST, KNOW IT THE LOUDEST?

  23. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by TearMaker View Post
    So you have both worked in IT for some periods of time? Then what how can you not understand - a) confidentiality b) an understanding that until an issue is resolved there will be no single person or company to blame until a full review is completed c) if the issue turns out to be a critical supplier i.e. the company who supplies your hardware or the owner of your managed service, do you really think they are going "throw them under the bus" as a term that has been quoted? Not a chance... d) then it comes down to professionalism which it seems something you are both lacking in if you think you can call someone or a business partner out publicly for something.
    Confidentiality doesn't mean that you shouldn't talk about issues, to the point that you don't even release some announcement regarding how far you're into fixing them. It's not about fingerpointing, it's about being honest and transparent with the people that, you know, keep your business afloat by giving you money in exchange for a good or service. If the good or service is not usable, people have a right to complain.

    Bad stuff happens, most clients do not want the technical details of what went wrong but for sure will want to hear when the outage or disservice will be finally solved.

  24. #149
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    1,464
    Quote Originally Posted by TearMaker View Post
    So you have both worked in IT for some periods of time? Then what how can you not understand - a) confidentiality b) an understanding that until an issue is resolved there will be no single person or company to blame until a full review is completed c) if the issue turns out to be a critical supplier i.e. the company who supplies your hardware or the owner of your managed service, do you really think they are going "throw them under the bus" as a term that has been quoted? Not a chance... d) then it comes down to professionalism which it seems something you are both lacking in if you think you can call someone or a business partner out publicly for something.

    Of course we are talking publicly now, I am sure internally whichever contractors are involved in this are being pressured hugely to resolve it.



    I find this disgusting behaviour and again shows your immaturity and it has been reported.
    If SSG otherwise had good communication, I wouldn't care that much about the silence of this issue. But their communication generally sucks in almost all other aspects of the game as well. What is your explanation to that then?

    In most other MMORPGs and games in general, the devs communicate on major issues the game has. In most other games devs explain why they do certain changes to how the game works etc etc.. But not here. There are more issues than the servers, and they doesn't communicate about those issues either. They barely respond to feedback on major updates to the game.

    Face it, the communication from SSG is generally horrible.
    Last edited by LotroVidz; Aug 27 2020 at 07:03 AM.

  25. #150
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by Cambruyn View Post
    So, just out of curiosity; what does he do? Do you honestly beleive 'higher ups'make these calls? They enlist people like Cordovan to advise them and based on the feedback they're given by people like Cordovan, they'll set up a battle plan.

    Let's look at his post.

    'Grizzled veteran'? You have grizzled veterans who actively add to teams and then you have those who stick around, doing what they're supposed to do with the least amount of conviction and resolve, with the least amount of effort required. Look at ESO community managers. Look at Warframe's, Path of Exile's, ... Is this a fulltime job for him? If it is, then again; what does he do? How do you fill 8hrs a day doing what he does here? Is he setting up events the way Sapience was? Is he as active as Frelorn was? And let's not even talk about Patience (memory a bit hazy here, I must admit).

    Standard of service he's unwilling to commit to. The horror; a manager having to commit to a better standard than what we're used to. That's not part of the job description... is it? If anything, I feel the standard has gone way waaay down and that applies to both Severlin and Frelorn. When did we get our developer letter again? Right... Sapience was a despot at times, but he was, well, managing the community. Frelorn a lot less so, but made up in other departments and was actively aware of what was going on.

    Ugh, I don't want people to lose jobs over this and I don't want to be sour, but I really do not see his added value to any of this and as clearly shown by so many, the way of handling this is just mindboggling. And where is Severlin? The community manager is thrown to the wolves, getting torn apart (rightfully so, but still) and he is where exactly? Doing what exactly? There's only 2 things this game has; setting and community. Being such a valueble asset', why is it's management so questionable? The majority of it has lost faith and became sour, but worse yet; it's become divided.

    There's things you cannot control; however lame an excuse it may be, we understand that, but what is within your control should be handled way better.
    Have you, or anyone else for that matter, thought about the fact that he may have signed certain documents (possibly NDAs or other forms that prevent full transparency) which would explain his lack of transparency?

    FYI - I'm well familiar with Severlin and Frelorn from their days at Turbine when they handled Asheron's Call and AC2, as well as Cordovan. I'm also very familiar with people like Orion, Ibn and a few of the other originals who did the same thing and were constantly fed to the wolves. Don't you think that they were just as frustrated as their players were when things broke? Put yourselves into their shoes for once and you'll realize how much of an unenviable job being a CM, or even a developer, really is.

    I'll say this one more time, if a CM (or dev) has signed certain papers (NDAs or other), then that prevents them from being fully transparent as they would need permission from their higher-ups to discuss, or explain the issues at hand.

 

 
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