An alternative Lotro for all players

[Silmelin]

Sorry, no I don't have a link to it, I just remember it being said. It was a long time before MoL's mention of it, quite a long way back. It was about a Vanilla SoA though, not other releases.

I remember it being said too, but I think where I heard it was in one of their livestreams quite some time ago so sadly I don't have a link either.

[ertr]

And since you seem to be good at this Do you think it would take more effort releasing another MM expansion or make a 2013 version of the game available to consumers?

Effort by who?
Making a new expansion requires lots of different skills to create. Graphics artists; coders; writers; game designers; and a bunch more people.
Making the old code sufficiently up to date would require a lot of work from some people - probably at least as much as they would put in for a new expansion. Other people would not need to be involved at all with the old code - no need for new 3D models for example.

[Thurallor]

What you should be advocating is market research. If there really is interest out there from a huge number of former players, then it ought to be possible to demonstrate that there is a pile of money to be made. I personally don't agree, but it doesn't hurt to investigate.

SSG is in the best position to do such research easily, cheaply, and quickly. They have an exhaustive list of the e-mail addresses of former players. Many of them are no longer valid, but many are. They could send out a survey question, like "Which of the following would make you consider returning to LOTRO?", with several options. One of them could be yours; another would be churning out a new expansion; etc. (The only problem with this approach, besides the technical art of devising the survey question(s), would that it might create expectations that they are going to actually do one of the options, and SSG is always very keen to avoid setting high expectations.)

[Gunhard]

Respectfully, not all players would be interested in a classic server. I love all of the improvements made to the game over the years. And I would rather the small SSG team concentrate on the modern game, including creating new content.

I agree, modern game is better for me. I was there when 65/75 was a cap, but dont remember any thing which was better than it is now even though its my first mmorpg, so i could be more impressed. Pvp on 75 was maybe a bit better than now, but still far fom balanced.

[Thavious]

Hahaha.... no...

Pvmp is dead. They are not coming back...

Splitting up limited programming and resources on another folly is dumb.

[LotroVidz]

1-65 I still believe is the best part of this game. But I do give some props to SSG for Strongholds of the North, Ered Mithrin, Vale of Anduin, and Minas Morgul. AS someone who just came back after leaving from playing through the Mordor expansion I'm happy with this newer stuff.


I think you're overestimating how much money and attention this would get. I believe it would do well...for a year. Then everyone who has played will get their nostalgia burn out along with no new content coming out under that system. These games survive this long because of new content. It's a live by the sword die by the sword thing. New content can piss off your current base or intrigue a new base. Sometimes it's great all around and sometimes it's bad all around.

Thats why wow classic is still so popular because nostalgia huh. The current endgame doesn't have the same longevity as MOM/SOM/ROI, sorry to break it for you. But you are right, we would still play the current version of Lotro since it gets new updates and regions. However, I'm 100% sure that a SOM or ROI version wouldn't die because of PVMP and good raids. As an example vanilla,TBC, and WOTLK pservers are still heavily populated after being up for years. One Wrath of the litch king pserver have more concurrent players than every lotro server combined.

So no, I would play MOM/SOM/ROI for the endgame and PVMP, because its far superior. The only thing you need to do currently at 130 is 1 raid, remmo, rest of the content is obsolete and has been since the raid was released. I would swap to classic lotro in a heartbeat =P Or I would simply play both because the endgame at 130 is very limited.

[LotroVidz]

I agree, modern game is better for me. I was there when 65/75 was a cap, but dont remember any thing which was better than it is now even though its my first mmorpg, so i could be more impressed. Pvp on 75 was maybe a bit better than now, but still far fom balanced.

What I think was better:
1. Less p2w in store.
2. Better class balance.
3. The trait system provided more variety in gameplay for each class.
4. Tanking threat system that worked.
5. Slower but more tactical gameplay.(less spam), felt like a true RPG.
6. No crazy LI grinds that we currently have.
7. Very good gear progression
8. No lootboxes
9. Balanced instances and raids, no stupid t5 system
10. Skirmishes were worth running.
11. Way better balance in PVMP
12. Better landscape balance
13. Better crafting
14. 100x times better endgame gear/LI progression

Ehh, the list goes on and on. From a gameplay standpoint, nothing is better in current lotro except that it contains a larger landscape and more story content. But that will still be around anyway, I see these servers as something additional, not that you are forced to either. You can do both too.

And btw I don't count pay to skip items from the store as quality content or something that would outweigh the fun of SOM/ROI. I also don't like the instant teleportation with Mithril, its just gives them a reason to place the quest markers all over the place to make ppl use MC.

[Nelliezz]

Why would anyone say no to this? You would basically get more than double the amount of content. One raid at level 130 is enough to keep me busy 1 or 2 days per week.. With a "classic" server we could enjoy leveling up an alt and explore the game and classes as they were back then, it would be so much fun. Also it would be cool to do groups quests etc in the world! As I recall, there are a lot of skills that got removed from the game at HD.. I remember the skill with my rk that blew a cloud of snow or something lol.

Where can I pledge?

Edit:
Nice video btw, too bad it's not official.

[MadeOfLions]

I also don't like the instant teleportation with Mithril, its just gives them a reason to place the quest markers all over the place to make ppl use MC.

I can tell you with complete sincerity that quest designers don't do this for the reason you think they do. As evidence I present the end of Volume I, where you go back and forth between Rivendell and Delossad a number of times, well before mithril coins were even a thing. In point of fact, quite often I disable the mithril teleport because I want you to have to physically walk up to the NPC rather than just beaming to him directly. The people making the content want you to enjoy the content, because happy and entertained people are more likely to support the game than people who aren't.

As for the 'give us an old version of LOTRO' thing - my answer is the same as always: why unfix all those bugs? You think it was perfect back then, but I remember our bug queues at the time and I can assure you it was not. Thirteen years of bug-fixes just disappearing? Yikes!

MoL

[Ethirielll]

As for the 'give us an old version of LOTRO' thing - my answer is the same as always: why unfix all those bugs? You think it was perfect back then, but I remember our bug queues at the time and I can assure you it was not. Thirteen years of bug-fixes just disappearing? Yikes!

MoL

Because it was a better game than the current one, i'd even say moria and mirkwood was a superior game to classic WoW, but everyone was already playing WoW by then.

[Boraxxe]

As for the 'give us an old version of LOTRO' thing - my answer is the same as always: why unfix all those bugs? You think it was perfect back then, but I remember our bug queues at the time and I can assure you it was not. Thirteen years of bug-fixes just disappearing? Yikes!

MoL

Hey, some of those bugs were fun.
Right everybody?
...chirp...chirp...
Er, maybe not.

[LotroVidz]

I can tell you with complete sincerity that quest designers don't do this for the reason you think they do. As evidence I present the end of Volume I, where you go back and forth between Rivendell and Delossad a number of times, well before mithril coins were even a thing. In point of fact, quite often I disable the mithril teleport because I want you to have to physically walk up to the NPC rather than just beaming to him directly. The people making the content want you to enjoy the content, because happy and entertained people are more likely to support the game than people who aren't.

To be fair, it's not a big issue and I do the same, I prefer walking to the NPCs, I just don't like this as an option in an open world MMORPG. It feels like cheating.

As for the 'give us an old version of LOTRO' thing - my answer is the same as always: why unfix all those bugs? You think it was perfect back then, but I remember our bug queues at the time and I can assure you it was not. Thirteen years of bug-fixes just disappearing? Yikes!
MoL

We don't want an SOM/ROI version of lotro back because of the bugs that were around at the time. We want it back because of the core gameplay, the instances, the combat, the itemization, pvmp etc.. It was simply a much better game than the current version IMO, sorry! If WOW CLASSIC can be successful in 2020, LOTRO classic can be it too!
Classic Lotro could be a wow classic competitor easily, or even retail wow competitor. MOM/SOM/ROI was that good IMO.
Seriously, kickstart it and let us help you fund it, then you can hire someone else to fix the bugs.. Meaning that you can focus on the story for the retail version =P

[Amberjack]

We want it back

YOU want it back.

I don't want it back.

[Druidsfire]

If WOW CLASSIC can be successful in 2020, LOTRO classic can be it too!
Classic Lotro could be a wow classic competitor easily, or even retail wow competitor. MOM/SOM/ROI was that good IMO.
Seriously, kickstart it and let us help you fund it, then you can hire someone else to fix the bugs.. Meaning that you can focus on the story for the retail version =P

I love how arguments in favor of this notion tend to ignore the fact that Blizzard had to hire an entire separate dev team to make WoW Classic happen.

So who's going to go back and dredge up an ancient copy of LotRO, rewire it from the ground up to be compatible with current hardware and security, and maintain it as a completely separate live service?

Here's the bottom line that your desire ignores: stuff like this takes MONEY. We're not talking the kind of money we players are currently handing over to an indie game studio right now. We're talking Activision-Blizzard or Amazon kind of money, because what you want would require its own completely separate dev team, including extra engineers to see if a port to modern tech is even possible. If you also want an actual LIVING game that grows instead of the static snapshot of the game that would by definition remain in maintenance mode, you pretty much need to duplicate the current dev team, so that comes down to: who is gonna pay for all that? Anyone happen to win the lottery recently or shake down Bobby Kotick, Jeff Bezos, or Chris Roberts for a few cool mil just to get such a project off the ground?

I understand what you want, but at least consider the simple fact that they'd need a TON of money and personnel to make your dream come true, and SSG has never had that to spare. We may be a loyal fanbase, but we're not exactly millionaires to be able to finance such a venture. Considering how much people complain about every little thing in the in-game store, do you REALLY think people would contribute the kind of money they'd need to a Kickstarter, assuming their license even ALLOWED them to have one? C'mon now.

[LotroVidz]

YOU want it back.

I don't want it back.

I say we since there are more players than me, you don't have to tell me that you don't. Honestly IDC lol..

[LotroVidz]

I love how arguments in favor of this notion tend to ignore the fact that Blizzard had to hire an entire separate dev team to make WoW Classic happen.

It has been explained numerous times as to why that is, wow classic is a remake in the modern engine, and therefor the long development time. Blizzard managed to get the game running in a few days, then they started working on it in the modern engine. It would be the same case with Lotro except that they should simply focus on making the old code to work on modern servers and let us download a separate client rather than implementing it in the current. You see Blizzard didn't have to go that route, but they were dealing with 2004 code, and blizzard has an unlimited amount of money so why not? Either way, its a different situation and the code is much more ancient than something from 2013..

So who's going to go back and dredge up an ancient copy of LotRO, rewire it from the ground up to be compatible with current hardware and security, and maintain it as a completely separate live service?

SSG? Oh wow a completely different live service, is that possible for a company that runs 2 online game already? Who would have thought.. Listen, the year 2013 isn't "ancient", 2004 wow is ancient, and it has had private servers running for years without issues.

Here's the bottom line that your desire ignores: stuff like this takes MONEY. We're not talking the kind of money we players are currently handing over to an indie game studio right now. We're talking Activision-Blizzard or Amazon kind of money, because what you want would require its own completely separate dev team, including extra engineers to see if a port to modern tech is even possible. If you also want an actual LIVING game that grows instead of the static snapshot of the game that would by definition remain in maintenance mode, you pretty much need to duplicate the current dev team, so that comes down to: who is gonna pay for all that? Anyone happen to win the lottery recently or shake down Bobby Kotick, Jeff Bezos, or Chris Roberts for a few cool mil just to get such a project off the ground?

You are not aware of the cost of this, it would simply take devs that work on the code, no graphics/assets/art/music/content designers because its already in the files. Also, go and look up private servers, they have managed to emulate classic MMORPGS which is a more tedious process than simply making it run and improve the code.

I understand what you want, but at least consider the simple fact that they'd need a TON of money and personnel to make your dream come true, and SSG has never had that to spare. We may be a loyal fanbase, but we're not exactly millionaires to be able to finance such a venture. Considering how much people complain about everything little thing in the in-game store, do you REALLY think people would contribute the kind of money they'd need to a Kickstarter, assuming their license even ALLOWED them to have one? C'mon now.

Yeah, why wouldn't they be able to kickstart? Ever heard about the successful RPGs of Divinity 1 and 2? BOTH were kickstarted by an indie company. If there is interest in this, they could simply research what it would take and set a goal, then we will see. The whales in this game can spend 100 of dollars on cosmetics, I bet there would be players interesting in funding a classic version of LotRO. There are millions of players that have left the game since its release. We are a tiny minority of the population prior to 2014. Remakes or re-releases have proven to be very successful.. Lotro is an MMO classic, people have not forgotten it. That was quite obvious when LS was released.

[Daniyel]

I am 100% in support of a Lotro classic that was fixed to level 65 or level 75 (the last true golden days of the game).

The only thing, and I think everyone here would also agree is that the old trait system (pre-trait trees) is an ABSOLUTE must.

Beyond that, I cannot understand why this hasn't already been done already OR [[AGREED]]

As to <<why this was not the intention of the Legendary Servers.>> you answered it below.....

people were under the illusion that they would be Lotro Classic

there is no proof of this, and some would tell me to keep my foul tongue behind my teeth e.g grima wormtonuge, but....nevertheless....
LS was an easy cash grab.....or it was a Misnomer, because it's basically a stone of the tortoise server.
instead of Legendary server....call it Filikul. (turtle run)

[Daniyel]

why would they roll back thousands of bug fixes and changes to the game to create a classic server that they can't support since it wouldn't have a cash shop, nor festivals, skills that are broken, no swift travels. Sure the original players may "like" it.

well, pick a version at end of level 85 cap with warsteeds then and stable masters and cash shop and festivals. right before trait trees. Mail.ru did it xD

Also, would SSG even have the rights to a Turbine only SoA classic server? maybe not.

great point.

[Daniyel]

This whole thread, while the OP is legit, is a waste of time. We will never see anything like the level 65 end game again in our lifetime. Just my 2 coppers. Feel free to disagree.

I agree. 85 cap bugud farming outside snowbourn is MUCH more likely

[Daniyel]

Fans always underestimate just how difficult it can be sometimes to get a legacy software system -- especially a client-server game system -- running on modern infrastructure.

SO TRUE. every company has a handful of employees like this xD

The most obvious 'technical issue' is that old code may use deprecated APIs that are not provided by more recent versions of the OS. The second most obvious issue is that old code may have serious security flaws such that deploying it would create a huge vulnerability for the company and it's customers.
[SNIPPED]...rewriting the old code to work around it can become a nightmare.[/QUOTE]

Frankly, they reworked it for 64-bit didn't they? yeah, 10 years late, but still. they got it done! it's just a matter of throwing brains time and $$G at it

imo, the version of the game release on Oct 14, 2013 is fine. https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Upd...tober_14,_2013

at that time in the world, hardware was really starting to take off into the stars. windows 8 had already failed and windows 10 development had started. Python was gaining traction, and Java was just starting to dwindle....and flash too...

But humanity cannot time travel. we can't rewind the clock. this is why in my line of work, we make true image backups, and snapshots of Virtual Machines xD

[Daniyel]

YOU want it back.

I don't want it back.

alright, i want it back too. Respectfully, don't ruin it for the rest of us by being a negative nancy please =)

[Daniyel]

stuff like this takes MONEY. We're not talking the kind of money we players are currently handing over to an indie game studio right now. We're talking Activision-Blizzard or Amazon kind of money, because what you want would require its own completely separate dev team, including extra engineers to see if a port to modern tech is even possible. Considering how much people complain about every little thing in the in-game store, do you REALLY think people would contribute the kind of money they'd need to a Kickstarter, assuming their license even ALLOWED them to have one? C'mon now.

you're right. how much money is MONEY, exactly? ballpark?
like, if there are 10,000 VIP players in lotro, that's $1,000,000 per Year. yeah i agree. that's pocket change.

SSG is stuck between a rock and a hard place. they can't increase the price. they need more players/more subs/more Payers.
but in order to get there, they have to invest.
So whoever said about "Market research," that's a good first step.
but those of us who have been loud about this on the forums for literally YEARS and years, well, that should be enough to at least get a conversation going about how much "market research" would cost.

and, pending a positive outlook, perhaps, then, a conversation about a kickstarter could be had (pending legal) and then and only then, will we actually see hwo much $ people are willing to Pledge to get this ground.

You said money. with a capitals. so BIG money =) how much money? and no, you can't have my 10 million pension fund. but im willing to pledge a slice, if people who are reading actually put their money where there mouths are, I will follow suit.

Cheers.

[Altair6]

I remember it being said too, but I think where I heard it was in one of their livestreams quite some time ago so sadly I don't have a link either.

Yes, I'm pretty sure it was in one of the livestreams. Looked on Lotro You Tube channel but can't spot it. What I think I recall is Tybur (think that's who it was) saying that the old code wouldn't run on the servers. Not sure if they went on to say any more than that - i.e. wouldn't be able to get it to work or didn't have the resources to get it working or wouldn't be economically worth their while, etc. But I suspect one or a combination of those factors apply.

[Nelliezz]

As for the 'give us an old version of LOTRO' thing - my answer is the same as always: why unfix all those bugs? You think it was perfect back then, but I remember our bug queues at the time and I can assure you it was not. Thirteen years of bug-fixes just disappearing? Yikes!

MoL

Because I am a player who don't care about those bugs you mention, since its not my problem.. I would just like to play a pre Helm's Deep version of Lotro since I loved those expansions and how the game worked. I don't find the game less buggy now than in 2013, or are you talking about internal bugs that only you could see?

And thanks for your personal opinion, it would also be interesting to hear what SSG say regarding this? After the success of classic wow and legendary worlds they must have thought of this? Would it be possible for you to restore a 2011-2013 version of the game or not?

I mean if it's not possible or that you just wont ever do it, maybe say so? It seems like there is a lot of people assuming things here..

[LotroVidz]

Yes, I'm pretty sure it was in one of the livestreams. Looked on Lotro You Tube channel but can't spot it. What I think I recall is Tybur (think that's who it was) saying that the old code wouldn't run on the servers. Not sure if they went on to say any more than that - i.e. wouldn't be able to get it to work or didn't have the resources to get it working or wouldn't be economically worth their while, etc. But I suspect one or a combination of those factors apply.

That is true, however, who expects it to just work? This does not mean it's not possible, it only means they need to work on it. So no, that livestream with Tybur does not confirm that it's not possible. It only confirmed that they have the original code(pre-HD) of the game as backup, and they were not willing to spend time or resources to get it to work at the time. They never confirmed that it would be "impossible" to fix. So this only means there could potentially be possible to get a version of lotro with old trait system.