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  1. #1
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    Completionists are being punished by the new Virtue System for no reason

    Players that have played through the Deed Log beyond having all Virtues @20 are currently being punished by the new Virtue System. Why?

    Virtues at Level 19 on Live Servers will convert to Level 48 in the new Virtue System.
    Virtues at Level 20 on Live Servers will convert to Level 51 in the new Virtue System.
    Virtues at Level 21 on Live Servers will convert to Level 51 1/2 in the new Virtue System, so it's 1/6 compared to Level 19 -> 20.

    There are many players that have completed the entire Deed Log and their Virtues are at 26-34 on Live Servers. They do not have any more Deeds that give Virtue XP in the new Update (except those in the Vales of Anduin). However, their Virtues aren't even at Level 60 yet. They are left with completing Dailies, Featured Instances and Festival Quests, etc as their only Source of Virtue XP. Completing the Deeds after U24 rewards you much more Virtue XP than having them done before. This is unacceptable. They should not be punished for completing the Deed Log before U24.

    On the other hand, Players with Aria of Valar are being favoured by this new system as they still have many more Deeds to complete.

    It would be really helpful if SSG would finally mention their intentions with the new Virtue System because, as it stands right now, almost nothing has improved, it's a much heavier Grind and Players that have invested much more Time and Effort than others are being punished for exactly that.
    Last edited by Snobs; May 30 2019 at 12:04 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snobs View Post
    Players that have played through the Deed Log beyond having all Virtues @20 are currently being punished by the new Virtue System. Why?

    Virtues at Level 19 on Live Servers will convert to Level 48 in the new Virtue System.
    Virtues at Level 20 on Live Servers will convert to Level 51 in the new Virtue System.
    Virtues at Level 21 on Live Servers will convert to Level 51 1/2 in the new Virtue System, so it's 1/6 compared to Level 19 -> 20.

    There are many players that have completed the entire Deed Log and their Virtues are at 26-34 on Live Servers. They do not have any more Deeds that give Virtue XP in the new Update (except those in the Vales of Anduin). However, their Virtues aren't even at Level 60 yet. They are left with completing Dailies, Featured Instances and Festival Quests, etc as their only Source of Virtue XP. Completing the Deeds after U24 rewards you much more Virtue XP than having them done before. This is unacceptable. They should not be punished for completing the Deed Log before U24.

    On the other hand, Players with Aria of Valar are being favoured by this new system as they still have many more Deeds to complete.

    It would be really helpful if SSG would finally mention their intentions with the new Virtue System because, as it stands right now, almost nothing has improved, it's a much heavier Grind and Players that have invested much more Time and Effort than others are being punished for exactly that.
    You can't call anyone complectionist if he have 20-21 level virtues. Complectionsits have them around 27-30+ level. Level 20 - normal player

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmagor View Post
    You can't call anyone complectionist if he have 20-21 level virtues. Complectionsits have them around 27-30+ level. Level 20 - normal player
    Did you even read what I wrote? I'm specifically talking about how Players that have Virtues at Rank 20 are being favoured by the new system while Completionists that have their Virtues at 26-34 are being punished by this system.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Elmagor View Post
    You can't call anyone complectionist if he have 20-21 level virtues. Complectionsits have them around 27-30+ level. Level 20 - normal player
    That is not what he said
    Do you even read his post?
    Thats what he is complaining about that those player have a disadvantage


  5. #5
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    Oct 2011
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    1,010
    A Completionist is getting 9 free ranks on each of the 20 virtues, 180 in total. 34 deeds to max a virtue instead of 43 deeds under the new system. That 180 is just over a quarter of the virtue deeds they have already done. Not to be sniffed at.


    It's better if you are a bit of a slacker completionist then you get the bonuses and enough left over to tweak things with a few more completions under U24.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Snobs View Post
    Players that have played through the Deed Log beyond having all Virtues @20 are currently being punished by the new Virtue System. Why?

    Virtues at Level 19 on Live Servers will convert to Level 48 in the new Virtue System.
    Virtues at Level 20 on Live Servers will convert to Level 51 in the new Virtue System.
    Virtues at Level 21 on Live Servers will convert to Level 51 1/2 in the new Virtue System, so it's 1/6 compared to Level 19 -> 20.

    There are many players that have completed the entire Deed Log and their Virtues are at 26-34 on Live Servers. They do not have any more Deeds that give Virtue XP in the new Update (except those in the Vales of Anduin). However, their Virtues aren't even at Level 60 yet. They are left with completing Dailies, Featured Instances and Festival Quests, etc as their only Source of Virtue XP. Completing the Deeds after U24 rewards you much more Virtue XP than having them done before. This is unacceptable. They should not be punished for completing the Deed Log before U24.

    On the other hand, Players with Aria of Valar are being favoured by this new system as they still have many more Deeds to complete.

    It would be really helpful if SSG would finally mention their intentions with the new Virtue System because, as it stands right now, almost nothing has improved, it's a much heavier Grind and Players that have invested much more Time and Effort than others are being punished for exactly that.
    So the new system rewards people who spend LP in the store and punishes people who earned LP in the game. Shocking...

  7. #7
    I logged in to make the same point.

    Regarding virtues, Gesildah makes some interesting points here:
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...01#post7936501

    Based on this info, it appears:
    Rank 37 (overcap) on live = Rank 20 live + 8.5 deeds post U24 = Rank 60 U24

    That’s up to 8-9 deeds less work PER virtue if you factor in the pivot point for players completing deeds after U24 rather than beforehand.
    Across 20 virtues that seems really punishing for those completionists who already did these a long time ago or players unaware and completing deeds in anticipation.

    Is that right / intended?
    Knight | Captain | Arkenstone

  8. #8
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    Oct 2018
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    149
    Here's a radical thought: Scrap VXP. Just leave it at one deed equals one point of virtue, and let people distribute the points as they see fit. If it's a daily or festival or instance virtue that only gives part of a virtue per completion, it can be recorded in the deed log the same way that we do it currently. This would be FAR less confusing for everyone.

  9. #9
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    Players that have completed the Deed Log (which made their Virtues reach Level 26-34 on Live Servers) haven't even reached Level 60 on their Virtues yet. However, as they have completed the entire Deed Log, there ARE NO MORE DEEDS THAT GIVE VIRTUE XP FOR THEM. This means that they are forced to level the remaining Virtues via Festival Quests, Dailies and Featured Instances.

    On the other hand, if you have your Virtues at exactly 20 on Live Servers (which will convert to Level 51 in the new Virtue System), you will have many more Deeds left and most of them will give you 2000 Virtue XP. This means you will reach Level 60 on all Virtues MUCH FASTER compared to those that have already done them BEFORE U24 because they can only do the above mentioned stuff for the remaining Levels on their Virtues. Is this so hard to understand??

    This is unacceptable. You should not be punished for completing the Deed Log before U24 rather than after U24.

  10. #10
    My Guardian has been around since 2007... let's just say that she's going to be punished by the new virtue system.

    Luckily I'm pretty much exclusively playing on Anor at the moment, but once the legendary servers catch up to the classic servers I'm not sure what I'll do then.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zonflux View Post
    My Guardian has been around since 2007... let's just say that she's going to be punished by the new virtue system.

    Luckily I'm pretty much exclusively playing on Anor at the moment, but once the legendary servers catch up to the classic servers I'm not sure what I'll do then.
    They could also just change the way Virtues are converted after Level 20. They can't be serious about punishing those who put in time and effort into actually doing the entire Deed Log.

  12. #12
    Agreed. If you put in the time to rank a virtue above and beyond you should receive full credit not partial. Please change this before live.

  13. #13
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    Completionists have nearly every virtue maxed in the new system. Which is a big statboost just from the beginning.
    Which the others need to grind.
    Both sides have their advantages and disadvantages. There is now punishment for one of them.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukor View Post
    Completionists have nearly every virtue maxed in the new system. Which is a big statboost just from the beginning.
    Which the others need to grind.
    Both sides have their advantages and disadvantages. There is now punishment for one of them.
    Well, not having done Deeds for Virtues before and having to do them afterwards isn't really a disadvantage. You simply haven't done yet what is required.

    However, Completionists aren't able to do any more Deeds because they have already done them and their Virtues are still not Level 60, that is a disadvantage. They are forced to do other stuff (Featured Instaces, Dailies, Festival Quests) while others can easily reach Level 60 by just doing Deeds, yet they (Completionists) have completed many more deeds.

    There is actually 0 Reason to punish Players for completing the Deed Log (or rather having Virtues >20 on Live Servers) before U24. This needs to be changed. That's all we're asking for.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snobs View Post
    Well, not having done Deeds for Virtues before and having to do them afterwards isn't really a disadvantage. You simply haven't done yet what is required.

    However, Completionists aren't able to do any more Deeds because they have already done them and their Virtues are still not Level 60, that is a disadvantage. They are forced to do other stuff (Featured Instaces, Dailies, Festival Quests) while others can easily reach Level 60 by just doing Deeds, yet they (Completionists) have completed many more deeds.

    There is actually 0 Reason to punish Players for completing the Deed Log (or rather having Virtues >20 on Live Servers) before U24. This needs to be changed. That's all we're asking for.
    And non completionists are forced to do stuff which wasn´t necessary before and still won´t be able to complete all with 60.

  16. #16
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    I agree that it's unfair to devalue the effort people have already put towards deeds before U24. But I doubt it will be changed at this point.

    It's a tough lesson for some people to learn: You should not invest too much time into this game, unless you just enjoy the grind. Because the devs can invalidate months and years of your effort on a whim.

  17. #17
    I legitimately think that anyone who has done an even a bit of real work on their virtues (meaning their primary virtues are at 20 or above) should at least have their slotted ones at 60 when they log in. I say that because if we would have had the system to start, we would have chosen those virtues to gain VXP first rather than all of the others. I would like to see an even reduction on all non-slotted virtues current VXP to fill the slotted virtues VXP. Just a thought since this system is going to go live as it is and we all know it.
    BLUDBORN
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snobs View Post
    Players that have played through the Deed Log beyond having all Virtues @20 are currently being punished by the new Virtue System. Why?

    Virtues at Level 19 on Live Servers will convert to Level 48 in the new Virtue System.
    Virtues at Level 20 on Live Servers will convert to Level 51 in the new Virtue System.
    Virtues at Level 21 on Live Servers will convert to Level 51 1/2 in the new Virtue System, so it's 1/6 compared to Level 19 -> 20.

    There are many players that have completed the entire Deed Log and their Virtues are at 26-34 on Live Servers. They do not have any more Deeds that give Virtue XP in the new Update (except those in the Vales of Anduin). However, their Virtues aren't even at Level 60 yet. They are left with completing Dailies, Featured Instances and Festival Quests, etc as their only Source of Virtue XP. Completing the Deeds after U24 rewards you much more Virtue XP than having them done before. This is unacceptable. They should not be punished for completing the Deed Log before U24.

    On the other hand, Players with Aria of Valar are being favoured by this new system as they still have many more Deeds to complete.

    It would be really helpful if SSG would finally mention their intentions with the new Virtue System because, as it stands right now, almost nothing has improved, it's a much heavier Grind and Players that have invested much more Time and Effort than others are being punished for exactly that.
    This is a very poor situation and punishes people for actually playing the game.
    .

    You currently have 1337 reputation point(s).

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwswim03 View Post
    This is a very poor situation and punishes people for actually playing the game.
    Indeed, I would even say this is an unprecedented screwing of players.

    Because while in the past the devs have made many decisions that devalued the past efforts of players, this is the first example I can think of which actually makes it harder to achieve parity for players who did extra effort in the past. In a certain VXP window, you're actually better off after U24, the fewer deeds you have completed before U24.
    Last edited by Thurallor; May 31 2019 at 03:19 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bludborn View Post
    I legitimately think that anyone who has done an even a bit of real work on their virtues (meaning their primary virtues are at 20 or above) should at least have their slotted ones at 60 when they log in. I say that because if we would have had the system to start, we would have chosen those virtues to gain VXP first rather than all of the others. I would like to see an even reduction on all non-slotted virtues current VXP to fill the slotted virtues VXP. Just a thought since this system is going to go live as it is and we all know it.
    I don´t agree this would disadvantage non br players. We could put in the five choosen which aren´t the current cause nearly everyone will exchange one or two virtues.
    But even then who start minimize the mastery passives or the morale which is the wish of the each player. best would be to set all to cero and give the vxp to spend.

  21. Is this correct?

    The ways to gain virtue experience going forward once Update 24 arrives are:

    - Deeds (none of which will be available to completionists save those from the new region)
    - Festivals (which are only available at limited times)
    - The new endgame quests (which won't be available with the launch of Update 24)
    - Featured Instance Challenge quests (which are only available when doing 120 Instances, I believe, and realistically will only be possible for a limited subset of the player base)


    Currently running The Spirit Gauntlet, during which no fate is unimaginable...

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkrist View Post
    Is this correct?

    The ways to gain virtue experience going forward once Update 24 arrives are:

    - Deeds (none of which will be available to completionists save those from the new region)
    - Festivals (which are only available at limited times)
    - The new endgame quests (which won't be available with the launch of Update 24)
    - Featured Instance Challenge quests (which are only available when doing 120 Instances, I believe, and realistically will only be possible for a limited subset of the player base)
    Yes, this is correct. I'm not sure about the endgame quests in general, it will probably be a daily or weekly repeatable quest that awards VXP.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkrist View Post
    Is this correct?

    The ways to gain virtue experience going forward once Update 24 arrives are:

    - Deeds (none of which will be available to completionists save those from the new region)
    - Festivals (which are only available at limited times)
    - The new endgame quests (which won't be available with the launch of Update 24)
    - Featured Instance Challenge quests (which are only available when doing 120 Instances, I believe, and realistically will only be possible for a limited subset of the player base)
    Well, you missed the fact (well, impression, since I didn't check each one) that the festival quests they're talking about seem to be weekly wrappers of daily wrapper quests, at least the infinitely repeatable ones.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bludborn View Post
    I legitimately think that anyone who has done an even a bit of real work on their virtues (meaning their primary virtues are at 20 or above) should at least have their slotted ones at 60 when they log in. I say that because if we would have had the system to start, we would have chosen those virtues to gain VXP first rather than all of the others. I would like to see an even reduction on all non-slotted virtues current VXP to fill the slotted virtues VXP. Just a thought since this system is going to go live as it is and we all know it.
    I don't think I am willing to concede on these terms. Offering SSG a compromise just gives them an opening to say they aren't screwing completionist. That is exactly what is happening no matter how its being spun. I put in the time to make my Virtues be where they are because that is where I wanted them. Not to have them exposed to a diminished return years later.


    Thinking on this, reading the recent info and input by players, the only players who aren't getting the shaft are those who applied to the Virtue system in a duo fashion. First they capped their Virtues via the store then went and did the actual deeds awarding Virtues. Making theirs far higher than ever intended. I highly doubt when the Virtues appeared at the store, this new system was ever a thought of by any employee at SSG. Something is wrong with this as well as the completionist path who only gained virtues by playing and having to endure a reduced value to their time and effort.

    Of all the changes in the last 12 years this new Virtue system is by far the worst. Taking my many hours and negating them on a whim. It just might be time to call it a day in Middle Earth.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkrist View Post
    Is this correct?

    The ways to gain virtue experience going forward once Update 24 arrives are:

    - Deeds (none of which will be available to completionists save those from the new region)
    - Festivals (which are only available at limited times)
    - The new endgame quests (which won't be available with the launch of Update 24)
    - Featured Instance Challenge quests (which are only available when doing 120 Instances, I believe, and realistically will only be possible for a limited subset of the player base)
    You are mostly correct, however endgame quests awarding virtue xp will be available with U24 launch. The initial Vales of Anduin endgame quests include 2 weekly wrappers, each awarding 3000 virtue xp (available once you have completed the quest content to unlock the endgame). There is additional Vales endgame content that will become available later.

 

 
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