Issues with the Update 23 Shire landscape update

[paintpixie]

They would not have had this problem of having to go back fixing things if they would have put in more time to do things properly instead of their usual rushing.

I agree they do seem to rush their releases. And it seems to be a trend.

Also, it isn't just one or two minor, easily looked over things. I can forgive honest mistakes like a glitch or bug or whatever. The whole Shire is a wreck, though. Those bramble bushes are growing over everything, and the flags/poles are too much, too. I definitely think somebody should have looked at it before releasing it. And that's why...as hard as it might be to think...I think most of it is just the product of somebody with really poor taste. I mean, take the sunflowers for example. They are a really nice touch. But everywhere? The flags might be nice here and there, but they are/were everywhere too. The bushes? Everywhere. Etc, etc.

And I know this was a few updates ago, but I *still* hate those rock walls they slapped all over Celondim and Combe. They were overused too, and in Celondim they are out of place, in my opinion. Some of the mountains also look like soft-serve icecream instead of stone. The Bree homesteads were affected last time, too. I remember somebody saying they didn't like the view they had covered in overgrown grass. It's great that maybe they will tone down the Shire because it's such a well-beloved place, but I guess it would just be nice to see it all handled a bit more delicately, I guess.

[Palenen]

Certainly a jaw dropping, shocking moment. Everyone needs to let people know about this thread in world chat and to come here and voice their views.

[Luventhariel]

I loved the changes they did in Breeland. I feel the opposite for the Shire.

Bree was a DaVinci, the Shire is a third grader trying to copy a Picasso.


The flagpoles remind me of crucifixes. My hobbit wants to climb one just so she can sing "Always look on the bright side of life..."

The planters are really ridiculous. The Sponge-rock squishy paths are silly. Removing the fishing stone in Bywater is shocking!

Stock...oops. That's just messed up all around.

Way too many bushes and sunflowers. How about instead of randomly putting stuff just anywhere, maybe grouping flowers together into an, um, garden? Something hobbits are known for? Adding one nice flower garden with rows of sunflowers in the rear at just one smial here and there would work so much better than just throwing pixels to the wind and seeing where they land.

I feel so sorry for Everbrock and everyone else who opened their front door to discover a bush in the middle of their front walk. If that were my house, I would have pulled that out by the roots as soon as I noticed it growing there. If I bought a house with it, that would be the first thing I'd remove. I'd try cutting it down, poisoning it, burning it down, and maybe even explosives if it's stubborn enough. These are supposed to be our houses. We should absolutely get a say in how they look, even if SSG is the majority of the HOA.

Again, I loved what they did with Breeland, but they really do just need to scrap this part of the update somehow, or put in a whole lot of overtime to fix everything.

[Nathrien_Estelenlaer]

...

Here's some more constructive feedback:

• Delete those Shire frills (bushes, reeds, weeds, do we have to name every single frill pixel by pixel or is this clear enough?)
• Revert Shire areas to their original appearances
• Revert Shire pond near Bywater to its original appearance: including fishing nets, fishing rock, and areas where quest items appear
• Delete Gondorian blue roses in stone planters: This does NOT belong in the Shire and sticks out like a sore thumb, completely ruining the local ambiance
• Players give "passionate reactions" on matters they find most urgent. The number of those reactions should be feedback in itself.

I have to agree with everything here. The original look of The Shire was, by far, superior.

[paintpixie]

The person who is reworking these zones has a tendency to overdo things. This is not exclusive to their treatment of the Shire.

And I guess the third grade Picasso enthusiast has started trying to replicate some DaVinci, too. Since the brambles have taken over Bree as well. They are growing out of stairways, in the middle of roads, and even right on top of poor Leland Underhill who just wanted his food back.

Oh well. : /

[West-northwestook]

If those bushes have sprung up in senseless places in Breeland and Falathlorn since the update as well, I'd take a guess and suppose the changed program Scenario mentioned in the beta thread did more than it was supposed to do. I don't envy him having to pull those weeds out (but please do and give us back our fishing rock as well).

[Iyalim]

Is there a way the devs can add an option in settings so, folks like me that are getting bogged down with too many graphics, can turn off all of these added bushes from our system?

This way those that want it, it is still there.

Those with computers, now chugging along in over grown gardening areas, can disable extra graphics and play smoothly again.

[Tiempko]

There's a shrub on Mustering Hill!

For 11 years, we Bounders have been mustering at Mustering Hill - the hill just south of the stables in Michel Delving. A couple of nights ago, somebody planted a big shrub right atop it.

It's a sturdy little thing, too.

So far I've tried chopping at it, stomping it, and even burning it out. But it's still there. Wizard's work, I tell you. It's them Baggins's - they've been meddling in the ways of wizards . . . and look what it's got us.

I've battled trolls, mind you. Trolls! And this bitty shrub has me totally flummoxed.

*sigh*

[Rumfigger]

Partially in defense of the recent cosmetic changes, if the Shire looked like it does now when the game first started I doubt there would be a lot of complaints. It is mostly because of what we have become used to that has aroused current passions. It is oft said that resistance to change is a sign of aging!

That being said I tend to agree that the level of change has been excessive. If it had been more gradual there would likely be fewer complaints.

As for whether current complaints will have any effect, just look at the state of the area around the Michel Delving town statue - which raised lots of complaints when it was changed a few years ago with more landscaping, arbors, etc. Those complaints had no effect because there has not been any reversion to the way it was before the changes.

Dear Devs: less is more.

[Haelgrom]

Who asked for any of this? Why was making these changes a priority in the slightest? The Shire has always been one of the best looking places in the game, and this just looks like sabotage of your own game.

[Tiempko]

Personally, I don't mind the changes at all.

Iffen my neighbors were to plant a few more flowers . . . then that's what they do. If, over the years, the forests get a bit more growth, that's what forests do. Of course, it makes sense to complain about the weeds growing up where no weeds had grown before. That's what hobbits do.

[Amorey]

Dear SSG,

Things change, trees, grass, flowers, and shrubs grow, we know that but I do believe fixing things that are not broken is just silly. I understand what you were trying to do, you are trying to give our beloved Shire a little improvement, but you know the Shire was really perfect already. All these new frills and shrubs everywhere are not really how the hobbits would keep their own lands. Please please do consider reversing some of those changes, hire a gardener or maybe two to cut off some of the new greenery..also flag poles everywhere are really not very nice. Of all places to change you have chosen the one you should really not touch, people are extremely fond of the Shire as it was. Hobbits are creatures of habits , less can be more and small can be beautiful

Thank You Kindly

[Pontin_Finnberry]

I hope they fix and do more work with the shire, some of the changes might not be done and more work coming with dot update with U23 hopefully. but for now i don't like bushes. and a few other things players have pointed out! But i do like the sunflowers they look nice Imo.

[Hjki]

I 'voted' with my wallet .. I unsubbed, I have now no right to make a comment as I'm not now paying for this (free) game.

[ZoneTripper]

Strange floating (or precisely balanced) rocks near the Stocktower.



These bees are not going to be happy. Stay clear.

[WayfaringNomad]

The Shire-update ist weird, because some places look carefully tended to - like Littledelving, which looks like a real cozy little village now instead of a somewhat faceless starting point for hobbits never to be visited again and the Rushock Bog fog and the mist over the emerging Water, and then some portions that look automated or only half done. Also unless I'm totally unobservant (not impossible) I didn't notice the landscape borders getting lowered or the hill next to budgeford made climbable. So, maybe the overhaul of the Shire isn't done yet?

I bugged the missing fishing rock at the fishing pond too, just think of all the hobbits that will get lost in the weeds come the next festival! Otherwise I like the new look, it looks less like a quarry pond now.

I'm thinking this is probably the case. To go through and perfectly edit the entire map in one sweep would be pretty much impossible, there will always be stuff that falls between the cracks. That said, while I wouldn't assume this is the final product, and there will probably be edits in the future (they're still working on and editing/updating character models to the players' request, for example), I still think reporting what seems off or wrong is a great idea. The players can help track down the stuff that needs to be fixed so that the devs can put it on the list for the next patch or update.

Keep reporting, but I wouldn't panic guys. I don't think destroying your favourite things was the intention here, so there's no need to assume it was- the developers these days seem to take their jobs very seriously, so if you speak up (hopefully politely) about issues, I think it's only a matter of time until they get addressed in some way or another. After all, some of these things are very obviously bugs- like the floating rocks and new items blocking out things players need to interact with.

[Nigolas]

SSG's line of thinking must have been: "How can we demonstrate once and for all that we do indeed have no QM whatsoever?" - "Let's do what we always do: Fix what isn't broken. But this time, let's really make it in the most obvious way, in one of the player's most beloved areas of the game."

Seriously, SSG.

- Stop rushing out unfinished content.
- Stop fixing what players don't ask you to fix
- Don't break what isn't broken in the first place
- Don't ignore people's feedback on the test server. Why do you even have one then?

PLEASE:

- Roll back these changes.


...
- And maybe put some more effort into Quality Management / Quality Control.


Can we get any feedback on this matter?

Thank you.

(Sorry, but I am primarily here for Middle Earth and its lore and landscapes. You mess with the Shire, you get in trouble.)

[maartena]

Who asked for any of this? Why was making these changes a priority in the slightest? The Shire has always been one of the best looking places in the game, and this just looks like sabotage of your own game.

I don't think SSG has to *only* make changes that people request.

As a matter of fact: People have been complaining about general landscape updates for YEARS! The "frills" option they added a few years ago made old zones like Lone Lands and Ered Luin come alive again. Barring a engine update (which is probably not ever going to happen), updating the landscape with the tools they have for the engine they have is all the can do.

So "who asked for any of this"? Well..... years of requests to update the old 2007 landscapes comes to mind.

As for the result: I do agree the Shire was always a GREAT looking zone, and I honestly must say I haven't been back yet to check it out. There will obviously be fixes and changes overtime..... but the community in large has indeed asked for graphical improvements of old world zones, and they are doing it the best way they can using our existing engine and without spending a fortune in development costs.

[Aelir]

As for the result: I do agree the Shire was always a GREAT looking zone, and I honestly must say I haven't been back yet to check it out.

You're doing a whole lot of commenting in this thread, on SSG's behalf, about things you admit you haven't seen for yourself. Instead of more conjecturing, please log in and actually visit all those areas being mentioned or screenshotted.

[Everbrock]

The "frills" option they added a few years ago made old zones like Lone Lands and Ered Luin come alive again.

The dark green bushes like the one pictured in my yard above, and all over the Shire (and beyond apparently) like a rash are not frills. I normally have frills turned up to maximum, but tried turning them off completely to get rid of the bushes and they are still there ~ even more conspicuous against the lighter green Shire grass without any frills to soften the impact.

I have seen similar bushes in East Rohan (link to wiki pic) where they fit with the darker landscape, but they do not suit the Shire at all.

[Bakenellan]

I am not very optimistic about this change to be reversed. There is some hope perhaps about the most bold bushes like the one in the middle of Fountain square in Bree but even that may be left as it is. There is actually a kind of lore foundation for that - Saruman activity which led to desolation of The Shire. So that is what we are facing here.

[maartena]

On the Cord Of The Rings stream today it was mentioned that there will be a 23.1 patch some time next week, and one of the changes Cordovan announced was that there would be some "weedwhacking" in Bree Land and the Shire. He also said this change might not make it till a patch after this one, e.g. 23.1.1 or something....

So, SSG is listening and is making some changes within the next few weeks...

[Cordovan]

Yes, we are indeed looking to address many of your concerns in a patch next week. Some of what is being seen is accidental in that some in-progress work made it into the build for U23, but we are also listening to your feedback and making quite a few changes that will hopefully better meet your approval.

[can0peas]

Yes, we are indeed looking to address many of your concerns in a patch next week. Some of what is being seen is accidental in that some in-progress work made it into the build for U23, but we are also listening to your feedback and making quite a few changes that will hopefully better meet your approval.

I am distressed that these issues were pointed out in the pre-release review threads and the response at that time was essentially the same as the above. Perhaps this time the reduction in added 'stuff' (kindest term I can muster) will actually take place.

[paintpixie]

Yes, we are indeed looking to address many of your concerns in a patch next week. Some of what is being seen is accidental in that some in-progress work made it into the build for U23, but we are also listening to your feedback and making quite a few changes that will hopefully better meet your approval.

Thank you for listening.