Where exactly are they planning on connecting Northern Mirkwood, Laketown, Dale, and the Lonely Mountain?

[Goodgoing]

It just blows my mind that somehow SSG is going to have enough resources to make a large scale update with all these hobbit areas. It's either gonna be all compacted together with little to no scale, or SSG somehow has enough resources from the profits of Mordor to do the Hobbit areas justice in one update in large scale. I really hope for the later. Do you think they will make this update all fit together with scale?

Which leads me to my other question. These areas are all in the way north of Rhovanion. The closest we gotten to in the North of Wilderland is Southern Mirkwod and Lothlorien. They didn't mention the Gladden Fields or the Carrock which leads into the part of Mirkwood that were going too. The Gladden Fields are due North of Lothlorein. Do you think perhaps we have access further north from where the current road block is on the north end of Lothlorien? I don't see any other way to get there from there. So maybe the Gladden Fields and the Vale of Audin will be a little scenic area just to give us a road north? Like how Evendim connects to Forochel?

I really hope SSG connects this region to an already added in region. I really hope they don't connect it with a portal, like Ered Luin.

[greetingsdownunder]

There's already a path up the hill in Northeast Lothlorien that can give access to Gladden fields.

And would probably be easy to add a path from north mirkwood down to the haunted inn in south mirkwood via the path next to Dannenglor

[Aleziana]

SSG don't have the time (no i mean the *biiiiiip*) to make such a larg road that leads to the north rhovanion .So Typical portals-swift travels is my guess. They should had made a level 5-15 area for Beornings arround Anduin river (Gladden fiealds) so they can connect roads to northen mirkwood and esgaroth but there were too busy to copy paste buildings for Pellargir back in 2015.

[Goodgoing]

I mean, yeah, they could've added in the Gladden Fields when Beorning was introduced. They kinda missed their oppertunity there. Middle Earth is massive already. But I want the regions to be connected the natural way for better immersion of the world.

I'm still waiting for access to Emyn Muil from the East Wall and cross into the Dead Marshes and on into The Waste. Giving us the road Frodo and Sam traveled in the quest of the ring. I love how they connected the East Wall and Far Anorien via the Mouths of Entwash. I want to see more of that in the future.

[Phantion]

Me too.

Lothlorien wouldn't be the likely route though- because it really depends on how much of "North Mirkwood" we will get. Don't forget- there's a LONG stretch between the Mountains of Mirkwood and Dol Guldor on a north - south scale that could become a "Central Mirkwood" zone depending. Because, on one of the streams, they said that North Mirkwood will be large, but not as big as Mordor (I think as in... Gorgoroth)- that kind of signifies to me that we won't be seeing a direct vector to the Dol Guldor area any time soon in-landscape (aside from an instanced new version of it with a clicky-horse, maybe).

A more possible, albeit tricky way, to connect North Mirkwood to the landscape would be to use the "Evendim to Forochel style" narrow roadway to tackle the route from the Misty Mountains zone across the Carrock to the Beorning starter area- with a bit of a winding, northward climb, up to the entrance to North Mirkwood. Gladden Fields is far too southwest of the Erebor area. I'd have more hope for "The Hobbit" route- and the opening-up of High Pass. I agree- connect the world!

[Hallandil]

Me too.

Lothlorien wouldn't be the likely route though- because it really depends on how much of "North Mirkwood" we will get. Don't forget- there's a LONG stretch between the Mountains of Mirkwood and Dol Guldor on a north - south scale that could become a "Central Mirkwood" zone depending. Because, on one of the streams, they said that North Mirkwood will be large, but not as big as Mordor (I think as in... Gorgoroth)- that kind of signifies to me that we won't be seeing a direct vector to the Dol Guldor area any time soon in-landscape (aside from an instanced new version of it with a clicky-horse, maybe).

A more possible, albeit tricky way, to connect North Mirkwood to the landscape would be to use the "Evendim to Forochel style" narrow roadway to tackle the route from the Misty Mountains zone across the Carrock to the Beorning starter area- with a bit of a winding, northward climb, up to the entrance to North Mirkwood. Gladden Fields is far too southwest of the Erebor area. I'd have more hope for "The Hobbit" route- and the opening-up of High Pass. I agree- connect the world!

According to quest items in the game files the update will include Thranduin's Halls, Erebor, Dale, Esgaroth and Eryn Lasgalen. Depending on how much they use of Eryn Lasgalen, that means that the update will pretty much give the entire NE corner of Mirkwood (including or using the Mountains of Mirkwood as a buffer between south mirkwood / Gladden).

Only existing land that would be capable of connecting to this would be the Vales of Anduin. Or some passage via south mirkwood (unlikely)

[Vanyaerunanethiel]

It just blows my mind that somehow SSG is going to have enough resources to make a large scale update with all these hobbit areas. It's either gonna be all compacted together with little to no scale, or SSG somehow has enough resources from the profits of Mordor to do the Hobbit areas justice in one update in large scale. I really hope for the later. Do you think they will make this update all fit together with scale?

Which leads me to my other question. These areas are all in the way north of Rhovanion. The closest we gotten to in the North of Wilderland is Southern Mirkwod and Lothlorien. They didn't mention the Gladden Fields or the Carrock which leads into the part of Mirkwood that were going too. The Gladden Fields are due North of Lothlorein. Do you think perhaps we have access further north from where the current road block is on the north end of Lothlorien? I don't see any other way to get there from there. So maybe the Gladden Fields and the Vale of Audin will be a little scenic area just to give us a road north? Like how Evendim connects to Forochel?

I really hope SSG connects this region to an already added in region. I really hope they don't connect it with a portal, like Ered Luin.

It shall give thee clear insight.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...alen&p=7798074

[JFDCamara]

In one of the patch logs the devs mentioned that they had moved the Beorning initial area. We didn't know at the time they would release North Rhovanion next but that makes sense with putting it in the "right" position.
So there's hope for a connection as we might have some "west Rhovanion", although I'm not 100% sure of course because look at the Dead Marshes :/

Also apparently Cord said in one of the streams that U22 is big in terms of map but not Mordor-big, so I hope we'll have detailed regions. I prefer a slow, rich expansion than just half rushed areas just because.

[Phantion]

I'd prefer that they avoid expansions in the near-future. A lot of expansions introduced controversial systems, from trait trees and BB's to lootboxes and ashes, and it would be best for SSG to return to its more normal update cycle, provided that.... lootboxes and ashes go the way of skirmishes, mounted combat, and BB's. Though that's a whole other topic- its still somewhat related in that.... while yes, for zone development, I'd want them to be fully-fleshed-out, quality Mirkwood zones, at the same time, I don't want to see some next new controversial system to appear and potentially irk more players. Its not a good idea- and I'd hope for them to learn a bit from the past. We had a nice stretch from Old Anorien through the Wastes- that's four updates- where the worst that happened was "Flowers" (far, far more preferable since it didn't involve a store-grind).

All of that aside, I do think that... "Eryn Lasgalen"'s size could be... well, anything.

I have a feeling that it'll be unrealistic for us to get the whole forest in-game. Its huge on the map, but remember, we didn't even get -all- of the Old Forest, Lothlorien, or Fangorn. Some parts were made inaccessible. We're missing northern Fangorn aside from a few corners cut out of Wildermore and Great River. We're missing... southwestern Lothlorien due to the cliff barriers. We're missing... the southern tail-end of the Old Forest. With Fangorn especially, its a chopped-up forest. Can't get to the Wildermore part directly from the Entwood or the Eaves of Fangorn. The "East Fangorn" part of Broadacres is sectioned-off on its own.

So, I'd say this- I'd actually expect a more "East Gondor" type of zone, actually, than the full forest. While I'd love the full forest, well... its like this. Rohan they could get away with because it was mostly fields. Mirkwood... its going to be hard to get some form of variety in there. So, I'd imagine that it would be tricky to hold players' interest by covering every single section of forest tree by tree.

But they could use the "cookie-cutter" method that they used in East Gondor, where we got the rest of Lebennin, all of Lossarnach, and the northern half of South Ithilien / Emyn Arnen, crescent-shaping its way up to Osgiliath. It was a zone that was long but sectioned-off from other areas.

I could totally see Erebor, Dale, Lake-Town, and Thranduil's Halls corresponding, more or less, to the "Osgiliath" / Crossroads part of East Gondor. I could also see "Eryn Lasgalen," which is the name for -all of Mirkwood- post-Ring, taking any number of shapes. They could, in theory, wind and weave a zone down to Dol Guldor. However, that's in terms of style. In Zone-Size, I'd expect something along the lines of Far Anorien, which truly was a huge zone. Taur Druadan, Beacon Hills, Mouths of the Entwash- to connect Amon Hen, Eastfold, and... Talath Anor near Cair Andros?! That was quite a feat!

Now, to clarify, I -want- them to do -all- of Mirkwood if they could do it. I'm saying that while I want it... I'm not finding it likely based on what they done in-game in the past when it comes to zone-construction.

There's a few things folks forget about the current Vales of the Anduin- as well as about Southern Mirkwood. The game -truncates- the terrain. It increases... the breadth and scope of natural barrier objects- like mountains. In Tolkien's Mordor, Frodo and Sam wander through a vast wasteland. In-Game-Mordor, you can see the mountains practically wherever you go, and Mount Doom is significantly over-sized. That's because the zone was truncated. There aren't leagues upon leagues upon leagues of flat, barren, Gorgoroth, as there are in the books. It's simply the effect of the game's natural downscaling of the total size of Tolkien's world.

So, with that in mind, if we look at the Beorning starter area, we will notice that the Carrock's rubbing right against the foothills of the Misties. I bet if a Beorning advanced up to it, the Misties wouldn't be that far behind, if it was possible to do that. Mirkwood's trees, which are Fangorn-style trees in the Vales, are wedged-right-up-against-the-fence-of-Grimbeorn's-Lodge-. So there aren't any plains or anything between Grimbeorn's Lodge and Mirkwood- just the fence and line of trees surrounding his yard.

In short, its been truncated. Its not that far from the Misties to Mirkwood's borders. Not really. Have an exit from Goblin-Gate not far from Carrock, and have an entrance to North Mirkwood a bit north of Grimbeorn's Lodge yet still in the scope of the Anduin Vales, and connecting North Mirkwood to the Misties suddenly becomes very possible, with a minimal amount of new terrain to add in between. But its still a big IF- because it depends on the trajectory of the zone. If it went east - west, its possible. If its a north - south trajectory, it would be very tricky to connect it to the Misties.

Which brings me to my next point, which is Southern Mirkwood. On Tolkien's map, there's supposedly a large gap of distance between the Anduin / Great River and Mirkwood. The Game eliminates this gap. It wedges Mirkwood's borders -right up against the shores of the Great River-. It also, I think, pushes Dol Guldor further east. It also thereby reduces the scope of the forest from east to west.

So, in short- they'd be able to do it.

Ideally, I'd want all of Mirkwood to appear in-game... I find it doubtful to happen due to past zone-construction-history since Gondor. Rohan's exceptional because its one of the few areas that fills-in as much as possible. Enedwaith's not like that, nor is Dunland, nor are the Lonelands, etc. Gondor over-inflates the size of its mountains- that's why the zones got so big. Far Anorien cut the corners on the Entwash Mouths through reed-barriers. Mordor also over-inflates its mountains, and the creation of the Ghashgurum honestly strikes me as a bit of a reason to "not have to put player-travel-capable terrain all to the south of Mount Doom," sort to speak.

So, though I'd want to see all of Mirkwood, my expectations are a bit lower due to those reasons. It'll still be a fun zone though, I hope- and I really look forward to seeing how they do it. Would not be surprised if the Enchanted and Forest Rivers serve as borders. We'll see what happens. I suspect that we -might- see a "funnel zone" funneling down to South Mirkwood because.... of what the Lothlorien Allegiance hints-at is coming next. We might just find ourselves exploring a second version... of Dol Guldor...

[Snowlock]

I'd guess if we connect, that we're going to connect at Lothlorien, go through the Gladden fields and across the Old Forest Road somewhat Evendim/Forochel style eventually leaving to go northeast to Esgaroth. The bulk of the landscape will be on the Erebor side, with Tharanduil's hall to the east and the Lonely Mtn. to the west. We'll probably see as much of northern mirk as we do Fangorn.

I would be concerned if the landscaped connected at all. I think it's more likely we'll take a horse or portal to some point on the old Forest road and the Gladden Area would be sometime in the future if ever. I doubt also that we'd see the far side of Long Lake. So I'd guess the actual area we're getting would look something like this:

[Phantion]

I'd guess if we connect, that we're going to connect at Lothlorien, go through the Gladden fields and across the Old Forest Road somewhat Evendim/Forochel style eventually leaving to go northeast to Esgaroth. The bulk of the landscape will be on the Erebor side, with Tharanduil's hall to the east and the Lonely Mtn. to the west. We'll probably see as much of northern mirk as we do Fangorn.

I would be concerned if the landscaped connected at all. I think it's more likely we'll take a horse or portal to some point on the old Forest road and the Gladden Area would be sometime in the future if ever. I doubt also that we'd see the far side of Long Lake. So I'd guess the actual area we're getting would look something like this

That's a fair approximation.

I should note, though, that the Vales of the Anduin have indeed been moved, and that they took the time to -develop- North Mirkwood's borders with Grimbeorn's Lodge far more- including sculpting-out some pretty tall mountainous tree-covered hills. There's also a clear gap between these hills, which could be an approximation of the location of the Elf-Path slightly to the north of Grimbeorn's Lodge (in the game-world, it would be more slightly, because of the nature of the world and how its downscaled from Tolkien's approximate mileage). I can confirm that this is so on Live- and the best way to see the changes is to tinker-around with object-draw, landscape-draw, and distant imposters via advanced graphics while on a Beorning in the Vales / Lodge area. Carrock appears similar to what it used to be- most of the development's on the eastern side of the river.

The question I would ask then is: Why... bother meddling with Grimbeorn's Lodge-area if the plan's to handle that far later down the line? On the other hand, it could just be a red herring, just doing it for the sake of doing it- still hard to tell.

I think it's safe, at this point, to rule-out any points of contact with Dol Guldor or South Mirkwood in the upcoming update. I can't imagine any means of them snaking the terrain that far south. It would've had to have been the size of Gorgoroth in order to work- and we know from the livestreams that it won't be as big as Gorgoroth. Could there be clicky-horses? Perhaps, yes. But who knows? It all depends on when they plan-on fulfilling a certain storyline from the Elf Allegiance.

At the same time, not quite safe yet to rule-out... connecting with the Vales of the Anduin, because of those terrain changes / movements. They've pulled-off some pretty hard-to-imagine updates before- Far Anorien especially. I mean, what a landscape feat! The Game had us a little north of Cair Andros- significantly far from Amon Hen and the Eastfold respectively. Then all of a sudden, wham! They managed to pull-off not only all of Taur Druadan... and not only the length of the Beacon Hills... but a path snaking through the Mouths of the Entwash up to the East Wall? WOW. That was pretty amazing, if one thinks about it- I would not have guessed that the update would have included the Mouths like that. Gorgoroth seems as if its about the size of East Rohan and Wildermore combined- even including parts of West Rohan in its geographic size: and they were able to do that thanks to over-sizing the mountains and Orodruin, making impossible-to-navigate- lava-lakes and trenches, and so on. Many of these barriers were invented by the Team and suggested by the books. South Mirkwood used such techniques as well- especially in the Scuttledells. So... I could imagine them crawling the landscape across a larger space while still encompassing the same "playable-size" as a normal zone through the formation of many sorts of barriers from rock-canyons to impassable hills and over-sized mountains, as well as oversized rivers, and the sorts of "tree-walls" they used in Fangorn.

So is it -possible- that they might... link-it-up with the current Anduin Vales? Yes.

Can it be -assumed-? No.

Your map target-area's equally valid too We'll have to wait and see what happens.

[Celebrawn]

My guess is we'll just get a tiny piece of northern Mirkwood, enough to include Thranduil's halls, adding Esgaroth and the lake, and fleshing out the existing landscape around Dale and Erebor. It won't have to be very big really, unfortunately. All those things can be included in an average sized region because of their proximity. And it will probably be accessed via portal because it's so far away from any other existing areas, connecting them physically does not seem feasible.

[Phantion]

Well, in retrospect, I was about 85% correct in my predictions. -5% for no connection -yet- with Anduin Vales (though -almost- there as the zone runs-up against the Vales' border / the entrance to the Elf-Road). -5% for the fact that there -is- an eastern shore of Long Lake in some places- so Long Lake's not the complete border. -5% for them fleshing-out more outdoor-Erebor / Dale-lands territory than I had initially thought.

But,

A- We have the over-sized Mountains of Mirkwood / Green Mountains as the southern border.
B- The Enchanted Stream was not a zone-border after all. A tree-wall + cliffs were borders to the north and partially to the south.
C- The Forest River is the northern border + a tree-wall when the river flows too far north.
D- The zone indeed snakes-out to the western borders of the forest in an "East Gondor" fashion.
E- The zone remains HUGE despite the snaking-out- from north to south as well as from east to west. I'd say its pretty comparable to... 80-90% of the size of Gorgoroth

Also, technically, I would, zone-visual-development-wise, count us as really getting -two- zones in this update:

North Mirkwood + a visually-revamped Southern Mirkwood.

South Mirkwood has seen complete overhaul changes to most of its trees (the original models have been replaced), foliage, and even ground-textures themselves. I rode around South Mirkwood- which now feels, Ashenslades and Dol Guldor / Gathburz aside, like a completely new zone although it has its original quests intact. Mirk-eaves feels darker, Drownholt feels completely different as well as Taur Morvith, Scuttledells feels altered, and so do Dourstocks and Emyn Lum. Ost Galadh feels like a whole new fortress in comparison. Amazing what a change in trees will do

[Snowlock]

Well, in retrospect, I was about 85% correct in my predictions. -5% for no connection -yet- with Anduin Vales (though -almost- there as the zone runs-up against the Vales' border / the entrance to the Elf-Road). -5% for the fact that there -is- an eastern shore of Long Lake in some places- so Long Lake's not the complete border. -5% for them fleshing-out more outdoor-Erebor / Dale-lands territory than I had initially thought.

But,

A- We have the over-sized Mountains of Mirkwood / Green Mountains as the southern border.
B- The Enchanted Stream was not a zone-border after all. A tree-wall + cliffs were borders to the north and partially to the south.
C- The Forest River is the northern border + a tree-wall when the river flows too far north.
D- The zone indeed snakes-out to the western borders of the forest in an "East Gondor" fashion.
E- The zone remains HUGE despite the snaking-out- from north to south as well as from east to west. I'd say its pretty comparable to... 80-90% of the size of Gorgoroth

Also, technically, I would, zone-visual-development-wise, count us as really getting -two- zones in this update:

North Mirkwood + a visually-revamped Southern Mirkwood.

South Mirkwood has seen complete overhaul changes to most of its trees (the original models have been replaced), foliage, and even ground-textures themselves. I rode around South Mirkwood- which now feels, Ashenslades and Dol Guldor / Gathburz aside, like a completely new zone although it has its original quests intact. Mirk-eaves feels darker, Drownholt feels completely different as well as Taur Morvith, Scuttledells feels altered, and so do Dourstocks and Emyn Lum. Ost Galadh feels like a whole new fortress in comparison. Amazing what a change in trees will do

I was bummed not to have the connect at Gathburz or the Dark Gap at Dannenglor. But I'm encouraged that we got right up to the entrance to the elf road. That definitely lends itself to the idea that one day we will get to Gladden Fields. (spoiler alert/bug report, you can get beyond the barrier out onto the plain). Hopefully someday that passage will open at Lorien and we'll yet get through.

[Phantion]

I was bummed not to have the connect at Gathburz or the Dark Gap at Dannenglor. But I'm encouraged that we got right up to the entrance to the elf road. That definitely lends itself to the idea that one day we will get to Gladden Fields. (spoiler alert/bug report, you can get beyond the barrier out onto the plain). Hopefully someday that passage will open at Lorien and we'll yet get through.

Yes- and it actually comes out -far above- the Gladden Fields. Way at the bottom left of the "temporary map", you can see the Bree-style trees and such that frame the hills surrounding Grimbeorn's Lodge / Beorning Intro. So, I would not be surprised if, before Gladden Fields, we finally reach the Carrock, finally get the Goblin-Gate on the eastern side of the Misties, and finally break-open that High Pass for a straight ride up from Rivendell and across I really hope to see the Gladden Fields too (Isildur session-play!!!! Put on the Ring and leap in the Anduin, PLEASE SSG!!!!!!!! OH............ and.......... SMEAGOL and DEAGOL!!!!!)- I think it'll open-up many possibilities.

Basically, to the north, right outside of Mirkwood, you have the Headwaters of the Anduin / Framsburg / where the Eotheod / Eorl / Rohirrim came-from, (and Mount Gundabad, where Durin first woke-up, maybe even a sneaky back-way into Angmar via the Rift?) - and eventually the Grey Mountains where all the Dragons came from-, the Gladden Fields and Lothlorien farther south, and centrally in-between, Grimbeorn / Carrock.

I'm also thinking the path heading down toward the falls south of Long Lake.... might suggest Dorwinion / ruined kingdom of Rhovanion / Rhun at some point too? I'm encouraged that they are taking this approach. I'm all for a contiguous world- I'd still argue tooth and nail for Emyn Muil- and yet... playing a game of "connect the dots" can be fun too, so long as they eventually do connect somehow.... I'd definitely say that, right now- the current Misty Mountains zone is the closest, closer than Lothlorien, to where North Mirkwood is- so I'd really want them to get that connected ASAP and then expand south toward Lothlorien- and THEN think-about heading north or down to Rhun... in that precise order (after U23 / Minas Morgul, of course- which will end the blockade between Ithilien and Lhingris FINALLY!!!)