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  1. #1
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    Massively OP Article About Mordor... Not good P.R.

    http://massivelyop.com/2017/07/14/lo...ut-ridiculous/

    When they are saying its bad than you know something is wrong.

    Best quotes from the article
    My problem here is that this all comes off as the studio really pushing it as far as it can to try to appeal more to the whales than the bulk of the playerbase. I said to some friends the other day that when it comes to pre-orders like these, studios should always err on the side of giving players a really good deal instead of coming off like they’re trying to shake every last dollar out of our pockets.
    What MMO unbundles and decouples a major selling point for an expansion that it’s been promoting as part of the expansion’s offerings from the base edition?
    I’m being hard on all of this not because I have a vendetta against LOTRO, but because I love the game and know that this move makes the MMO appear foolish and laughable to the larger gaming community. It hurts the reputation of the studio and game, and it could push potential players away instead of draw them in.
    Last edited by kickman77; Jul 14 2017 at 04:08 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by kickman77 View Post
    http://massivelyop.com/2017/07/14/lo...ut-ridiculous/

    When they are saying its bad than you know something is wrong.

    Best quotes from the article


    Most of the comments below the article are even more brutal. Thanks for posting the link.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by kickman77 View Post
    http://massivelyop.com/2017/07/14/lo...ut-ridiculous/

    When they are saying its bad than you know something is wrong.

    Best quotes from the article
    Couldn't agree more with the article had I written it myself.
    Gyes, et al
    Monarch, Paladins of Asheron
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  4. #4
    "Flat-out ridiculous" is the best way to describe it, sadly. It seems that the people who put this expansion sale together are the same store people that have held the warsteed cosmetics ridiculously expensive and character bound for five years. The department you *didn't* want to cross over from Turbine over to SSG.

  5. #5
    Yes, saw the article. Just can't believe how badly this whole episode has been handled. They need to do a bit of damage limitation, and fast
    Yes, I know it's a Rabbit: they don't have a Hedgehog.

  6. #6
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    When it launches, you'll be able to get High Elf for a lot less than $80 -- just buy some LOTRO points then use those to buy it. A true fan would know this.

    The author decries high elf as nothing special, but then complains that he can't easily buy it for a low price until after it launches. Well, if it's nothing special just a "slightly different haircut and some racials" then just buy it for LOTRO points when it launches. Problem solved.

    They say, "the highest offer is x2 the next lower, but not x2 the value". Well, that could be true from a certain point of view. Here's my opinion:
    The base price, $40, is the same as most new games now and it's a decent price for what you get. 60-70 hours is your average new game and how much time are you going to spend in Mordor? A lot more than that. The top price, $129, is decent for everything that they give you, although I'd prefer it to come with some sort of beta access to Mordor as well, perhaps getting in a week or so earlier.

    As to when Mordor will launch, they said summer. Now, LOTRO has brought a lot of games out in the "summer" and it's never been in July. Summer is July-Aug-Sep, so July 31 is only 1/3 through summer -- that's just not going to happen. I don't know why that date was mentioned but whatever. It'll be out at some point in summer.

    The author says, "You don’t have to give an extra character slot or any of the other extras, but the race should be part of all of Mordor’s editions." Runekeeper and Warden aren't included in all Moria editions. I don't know why anyone would think this.
    As a level 1 burglar, Bilbo got a pony when he joined the Smaug The Dragon raid. Then he asked for leadership, looted the chest, assigned himself the 1st age Arkenstone and mailed it to an alt (Bilbo's a VIP so can mail from anywhere). They did some PvMP and an Epic Battle, then he apologized and gave the Arkenstone back because it wasn't BoA. He kept the pony.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Banaticus View Post
    When it launches, you'll be able to get High Elf for a lot less than $80 -- just buy some LOTRO points then use those to buy it. A true fan would know this.
    There we go with those "true fan" things again. Aren't you forgetting a six month timeframe there? The HE will be made available with points with U22 not at launch.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Banaticus View Post
    When it launches, you'll be able to get High Elf for a lot less than $80 -- just buy some LOTRO points then use those to buy it. A true fan would know this.

    The author decries high elf as nothing special, but then complains that he can't easily buy it for a low price until after it launches. Well, if it's nothing special just a "slightly different haircut and some racials" then just buy it for LOTRO points when it launches. Problem solved.

    They say, "the highest offer is x2 the next lower, but not x2 the value". Well, that could be true from a certain point of view. Here's my opinion:
    The base price, $40, is the same as most new games now and it's a decent price for what you get. 60-70 hours is your average new game and how much time are you going to spend in Mordor? A lot more than that. The top price, $129, is decent for everything that they give you, although I'd prefer it to come with some sort of beta access to Mordor as well, perhaps getting in a week or so earlier.

    As to when Mordor will launch, they said summer. Now, LOTRO has brought a lot of games out in the "summer" and it's never been in July. Summer is July-Aug-Sep, so July 31 is only 1/3 through summer -- that's just not going to happen. I don't know why that date was mentioned but whatever. It'll be out at some point in summer.

    The author says, "You don’t have to give an extra character slot or any of the other extras, but the race should be part of all of Mordor’s editions." Runekeeper and Warden aren't included in all Moria editions. I don't know why anyone would think this.

    I'm sorry but to compare mordor (an expansion) to a new game is utterly ridiculous, first off a new game would have up to date graphics and be able to take full advantage of the power of an up to date PC, second 60-70 hours to play through Mordor? What? Maybe if you repeat it over and over again or repeat the same dailies but then you could do that with any game just repeat it over and over and claim "look how valuable it is I've played 5000 hours" no, to play through mordor once will take no more than any other new game would. $129 is not in any way a good deal for what you get, break it down the base game is $40 mordor will be 2495lp and they value the valar at 6000lp which means by ratio mordor is worth roughly $15 of the $40 for that bundle, where they get $115 of extra stuff in the top tier product is beyond me.

    The date of July 31st wasn't "mentioned" it was officially put out by SSG, yes with a caveat of August if we can't make that date, but that's on SSG no-one else they didn't have to put out any date but decided to.

    You cant buy the high elf when lotro launches either, so no, problem not solved, it won't be available till winter.

    how can they add early access to beta to any pack when it's already underway and has been for a while now? Any true fan would know this.
    Last edited by bobbylobs; Jul 14 2017 at 05:09 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banaticus View Post
    When it launches, you'll be able to get High Elf for a lot less than $80 -- just buy some LOTRO points then use those to buy it. A true fan would know this.

    The author decries high elf as nothing special, but then complains that he can't easily buy it for a low price until after it launches. Well, if it's nothing special just a "slightly different haircut and some racials" then just buy it for LOTRO points when it launches. Problem solved.

    They say, "the highest offer is x2 the next lower, but not x2 the value". Well, that could be true from a certain point of view. Here's my opinion:
    The base price, $40, is the same as most new games now and it's a decent price for what you get. 60-70 hours is your average new game and how much time are you going to spend in Mordor? A lot more than that. The top price, $129, is decent for everything that they give you, although I'd prefer it to come with some sort of beta access to Mordor as well, perhaps getting in a week or so earlier.

    As to when Mordor will launch, they said summer. Now, LOTRO has brought a lot of games out in the "summer" and it's never been in July. Summer is July-Aug-Sep, so July 31 is only 1/3 through summer -- that's just not going to happen. I don't know why that date was mentioned but whatever. It'll be out at some point in summer.

    The author says, "You don’t have to give an extra character slot or any of the other extras, but the race should be part of all of Mordor’s editions." Runekeeper and Warden aren't included in all Moria editions. I don't know why anyone would think this.

    Maybe comprehend what he is saying. The High Elf was pushed as part of Mordor and suddenly ooops, its not part of Mordor we mis-spoke. Oh and all other expansions had some sorta fluff in the 40 dollar pack. People arent asking for the world but to majority of players I have seen are unhappy. Especially when in a live stream 1. They dont know much about the items they placed on sale and 2. You can clearly hear them say they are basically fishing for the Lotro whales to cater to them because well... LOTRO.

    Turbine made some poor choices as a company some of which they rectified. SSG apparently did not learn from those mistakes and the fact that this and other articles saying the same things are popping up on other sites is exactly what this company does not need right now. It is bad marketing. bad Public relations and bad bad bad for the customers are more and more people leave it means less can be developed and if soon all they have is whales who will drop over 100 bucks for fluff thats all they are going to make.

    But than again, maybe that is SSG's goal... 1 server with all the whales flying kites that cost 100 bucks each in the shire

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banaticus View Post
    When it launches, you'll be able to get High Elf for a lot less than $80 -- just buy some LOTRO points then use those to buy it. A true fan would know this.

    The author decries high elf as nothing special, but then complains that he can't easily buy it for a low price until after it launches. Well, if it's nothing special just a "slightly different haircut and some racials" then just buy it for LOTRO points when it launches. Problem solved.

    They say, "the highest offer is x2 the next lower, but not x2 the value". Well, that could be true from a certain point of view. Here's my opinion:
    The base price, $40, is the same as most new games now and it's a decent price for what you get. 60-70 hours is your average new game and how much time are you going to spend in Mordor? A lot more than that. The top price, $129, is decent for everything that they give you, although I'd prefer it to come with some sort of beta access to Mordor as well, perhaps getting in a week or so earlier.

    As to when Mordor will launch, they said summer. Now, LOTRO has brought a lot of games out in the "summer" and it's never been in July. Summer is July-Aug-Sep, so July 31 is only 1/3 through summer -- that's just not going to happen. I don't know why that date was mentioned but whatever. It'll be out at some point in summer.

    The author says, "You don’t have to give an extra character slot or any of the other extras, but the race should be part of all of Mordor’s editions." Runekeeper and Warden aren't included in all Moria editions. I don't know why anyone would think this.


    If the High Elf is nothing more than" a few racials and a haircut", how can you compare it to a full class like a warden or a Runekeeper? It is after all just a race and not a full class.

    The High elf brings nothing special to the table, nor is it timely to make unlike a Beorning for instance, which has been treated very badly since the money grab on the back of The Hobbit.

    Also levelling and getting trait points on a new character just for the sake of "a few racials and a haircut", is just not going to happen.

    Now if the 2nd and 3rd package included full trait points and more virtues/stats etc, it may well sell better.

    Basic package for me.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banaticus View Post
    When it launches, you'll be able to get High Elf for a lot less than $80 -- just buy some LOTRO points then use those to buy it. A true fan would know this.

    The author decries high elf as nothing special, but then complains that he can't easily buy it for a low price until after it launches. Well, if it's nothing special just a "slightly different haircut and some racials" then just buy it for LOTRO points when it launches. Problem solved.
    Before "solving the problem"... did you even look closely at actual situation? Your reply implies you haven't. As of currently, High Elf is intended to remain unavailable to players for LP as as separate purchase at least until after U22. That's Winter. It is excluded from the base edition bundle. There is an obvious intent to drive players towards the $80 Collector's Edition (or higher) if they want to play a High Elf sooner than Winter. The problem is about SSG withholding LP access to it at launch, and many months after launch. Solve that.
    Éalá Éarendel engla beorhtast,
    ofer middangeard monnum sended,
    ond sóð
    fæsta sunnan léoma,
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    las, þú tída gehwane,
    of sylfum þé symle inlíhtes!

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  12. #12
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    What a fantastic article, my exact thoughts on the matter. Great post!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickman77 View Post
    http://massivelyop.com/2017/07/14/lo...ut-ridiculous/

    When they are saying its bad than you know something is wrong.

    Best quotes from the article
    I really hate to agree with you on this.

    Did they remember to look at what they are already selling? For less than the Ultimate Fan price I think you can get a year's sub? No?
    ...
    Sig looked hideous so I sent it to its room. It can come back and
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  14. #14
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    Very good article. Unfortunately it reflects reality.

    The sad part is that he is absolutely right: SSG is stingy with pixels.... and also with game mechanics. Unfortunately most of the new recipes will be gated behind the new reputation grind and there will be no armor/weapons that can be crafted without doing that grind.



    The interesting things for me is: atm we have 4 races. After Mordor launch we have 5. Yet we still get a new allegiance system with the 4 we already know. If the High Elves had their own allegiance system, wouldn't that make sense? Wouldn't that at least maybe add a little bit
    to feeling that there is some substance to them?

    As it sits now, I agree with others: HE have a different intro and different facial features. Like regular elves, they start in Celondim. Same game play. I doubt that their racial traits will make a lot of a difference in the overall game play.
    Last edited by Happybudgy; Jul 14 2017 at 05:25 PM.
    You will grind your hamsterwheel and you will be happy.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xhiu View Post
    I really hate to agree with you on this.

    Did they remember to look at what they are already selling? For less than the Ultimate Fan price I think you can get a year's sub? No?
    In the LOTRO Market, you can get 12 months of game time for $99.99.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by peachy16 View Post
    In the LOTRO Market, you can get 12 months of game time for $99.99.
    And they'll occasionally do a sale of 12 months for around $80 which I thought happened at least once a year, but I haven't seen that in a really long time. It wasn't even available for Black Friday last year.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banaticus View Post
    When it launches, you'll be able to get High Elf for a lot less than $80 -- just buy some LOTRO points then use those to buy it. A true fan would know this.
    I was under the impression that you won't be able to buy it with LotRO points for the first several months after launch. Am I mistaken?

    (Going to buy the medium-grade with money anyway; the high-grade's extra bells and whistles include nothing I want.)
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  18. #18
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    Yeah, I hope there are some serious talks happening at SSG right now. I've met the writer of this article in-game and he's definitely a True Believer. Carved out a nice column for LOTRO on MassivelyOP when a lot of other websites weren't paying attention, and he's apparently been playing from the beginning. If he's saying these pre-order packages need another look, that's pretty indicative of what a lot of the veterans of the game are thinking. And those are the folks these packages should've gone out of their way to appease.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Banaticus View Post
    The author says, "You don’t have to give an extra character slot or any of the other extras, but the race should be part of all of Mordor’s editions." Runekeeper and Warden aren't included in all Moria editions. I don't know why anyone would think this.
    What Moria editions?

    There are only two. A Quest Pack version which is nothing but the quests and the Expansion, which has everything, including raids and classes.

    Every expansion has had a quest pack version except for Helm's Deep that offered only the quests.

    This, what people are paying for now, is not a quest pack. It's an expansion. they've not even mentioned if there will be a Quest Pack only version of Mordor or not.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by djheydt View Post
    I was under the impression that you won't be able to buy it with LotRO points for the first several months after launch. Am I mistaken?

    (Going to buy the medium-grade with money anyway; the high-grade's extra bells and whistles include nothing I want.)
    Yeah he wasn't paying attention to the fact. What was said was that The HE will not be available 'til winter. You CAN purchase the expacs after launch and get it then if you really feel the need but it will not be available for LP until later. The expacs will be mostly the same as they are now. I couldn't get a handle on what is missing and what stays the same after launch. It sounded like they didn't know. Also bad P.R.
    ...
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happybudgy View Post
    The interesting things for me is: atm we have 4 races. After Mordor launch we have 5. Yet we still get a new allegiance system with the 4 we already know. If the High Elves had their own allegiance system, wouldn't that make sense? Wouldn't that at least maybe add a little bit
    to feeling that there is some substance to them?
    The game currently has 5 races, high elves would make 6. Admittedly it's understandable you would forget about Beornings, SSG forgot about them immediately after releasing them.
    ~ Take the player, not the class ~

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joedangod View Post
    The game currently has 5 races, high elves would make 6. Admittedly it's understandable you would forget about Beornings, SSG forgot about them immediately after releasing them.
    You are of course absolutely right and that shows indeed that the Beorning is the 'forgotten race'.

    Interestingly enough, Beornings then will not have their own allegiance system either. That makes 2 then.
    You will grind your hamsterwheel and you will be happy.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LethalLethality View Post
    What Moria editions?

    There are only two. A Quest Pack version which is nothing but the quests and the Expansion, which has everything, including raids and classes.
    There are only two currently. At the time of Moria's release in 2008, there were additional options, all of which game which came with the Warden and RK, unlike what they're doing with High-elf now.
    Arda Shrugged - Elendilstone / Landroval / Anor

  24. #24
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    SSG (and it's fans who would defend it blindly) has been trying to get out of the shadow of Turbine for some time now.

    And what do they do on the dawn of the first expansion launch in a few years?

    1. Walk back the novelty of the High Elf race even though it has been heavily promoted* as being a selling point for the expansion.

    2. Prove they have learned little from past mistakes under Turbine by:
    a. not including the High Elf in the standard package
    b. not making the expansion available for purchase via LP for months after launch

    3. Create a 3 tier pre-order package that players and the general gaming community have labelled "ridiculous"

    4. Dedicate wasted resources on creating a High Elf race even though interest in it's inclusion is minimal (by their own admission)

    5. Releasing the expansion with no group, instance dungeon content. The raid coming out later is standard and acceptable--but having no fellowship dungeons is unacceptable.

    *I used the term heavily promote loosely...SSG has done very little to promote this expansion in general. Are we getting a cinematic trailer? An in-game trailer?? Anything???

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by gildhur View Post
    There are only two currently. At the time of Moria's release in 2008, there were additional options, all of which game which came with the Warden and RK, unlike what they're doing with High-elf now.
    From what I can find, there were three versions:

    Mines of Moria Complete Edition

    Mines of Moria Collector's Edition

    Mines of Moria Digital Expansion

    The Lord of the Rings Online: Mines of Moria - Fall 2008 Product Lineup:
    Ø The Lord of the Rings Online: Mines of Moria Complete Edition will include the original The Lord of the Rings Online™: Shadows of Angmar™ game (Volume I), all content updates released since launch, and The Lord of the Rings Online: Mines of Moria (Volume II). The Complete Edition will be available at retail stores nationwide and offers new players who wish to journey through the most complete and authentic recreation of Middle-earth the full, award-winning experience.


    Ø The Lord of the Rings Online: Mines of Moria Collector's Edition will feature the content of the Complete Edition as well as compelling digital and physical items for collectors. Limited quantities of the Collector's Edition will be available at retail outlets in a unique leather-bound book packaging and will include:
    · 3 exclusive tokens that can be exchanged for the player's choice of 8 different in-game items
    · 22" x 22" premium quality cloth map of the Mines of Moria
    · Special gold-plated ring complete with chain and pouch
    · Mines of Moria poster
    · The Lord of the Rings Online Art and Music Collection with the official Mines of Moria Soundtrack
    · A full color Collector's Edition Starter Guide


    Ø The Lord of the Rings Online: Mines of Moria Digital Expansion is a digital upgrade that will allow existing subscribers to The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar to continue the ultimate interactive adventure into the vast, terrifying and unparalleled world beneath Middle-earth.
    Unless there were others that is not listed on the Kotaku article, http://kotaku.com/5031427/lotro-mine...ition-detailed from 2008, I don't see one that says Warden and RK is not included. not sure where he's getting that they weren't included.
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