Cordovan, please update the Official Roleplaying rules and policy thread!

[Elwenwing]

Cordovan, I recently noticed the official Turbine roleplaying rules and policy thread ( https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...les-and-Policy ) has been unstickied from this forum section!

Today I heard your comments about that, as a reply on a question in the weekly +Cords of the Rings stream! (I'm not sure if I can link to that stream here, but it's today stream found at twitch at 00:27:18)

Basically the question asked in the stream was:

"Speaking of rules, what is the status of the LOTRO Official Roleplaying Rules and Policy? The official thread on your forums where they were posted has been unstickied?"

And your reply was:

"Yeah, it was outdated. I don't know if we are making any real changes on our official roleplaying rules and policy. But at the same time we've had discussions, on the forums and elsewhere, about Laurelin and things like that, and the community is not really settled as to what needs to be done. There are people with very strong opinions on several sides of it so I don't know that.... We are not changing anything, for what it's worth. But we didn't keep around an outdated thread, and I don't really know that we plan to be all rules lawyer-y about it.... So I guess the big takeaway is nothing's changing, no, from what it is right now!"

So at the same time you insist the rules have not changed, you have made it less easy to find them on the official forums! And as far as I'm aware this forum is the only place they can be found to begin with!

As a Laurelin roleplayer I would very much like some clarity as to the actual state of these offical rules! If they are in fact still in place as you mention repeatedly, it would be great they can be found in an easy-to-find updated format on these forums!

Please know that these rules are very important to the roleplayers of Laurelin, as they form the framework which has been the basis of our LOTRO experience for the last decade!

[Erroldor]

A very good question. I'd like to add a little granularity with a question of my own.

So I guess the big takeaway is nothing's changing, no, from what it is right now!

Should this be read as saying "We've removed the sticky, not because we've changed the rules, but because we haven't enforced the rules in a long time and don't really intend to in the future, and having that sticky up there is embarrassing , so nothing's changing, no, from what it is right now."?

Suggestion: Put the sticky back and start enforcing the rules... please?

[Elwenwing]

That is indeed a bit of granularity added!

It's a fair question you ask though, as it does feel like the RP support from Turbine and now SSG has been dwindling over the years!

My main reason for posting is really that I don't think it's all right to say: "We support the RP rules on Laurelin as we always have", and then state "The only thread in which the official rules are laid out has become out dated!"

And that does feel very ambiguous to me at least, and it begs for clarification!

Since Laurelin is an official RP server, it should at least be clear to everyone what the rules according to SSG are!

As far as daily visits to Laurelin are concerned, I personally do feel that people can and should be a bit lenient in respect to the RP rules, but generally respect them nonetheless, so it's an enjoyable server for everyone!

[Erennor]

Question: "Speaking of rules, what is the status of the LOTRO Official Roleplaying Rules and Policy? The official thread on your forums where they were posted has been unstickied?"


"Yeah, it was outdated. I don't know if we are making any real changes on our official roleplaying rules and policy. But at the same time we've had discussions, on the forums and elsewhere, about Laurelin and things like that, and the community is not really settled as to what needs to be done. There are people with very strong opinions on several sides of it so I don't know that.... We are not changing anything, for what it's worth. But we didn't keep around an outdated thread, and I don't really know that we plan to be all rules lawyer-y about it.... So I guess the big takeaway is nothing's changing, no, from what it is right now!" ~ Cordovan





So it is openly acknowledged that the thread is outdated (and has been for a long while), and the solution to that was to unpin the thread from the top and let it fade away from view, rather than, do what is needed, and simply update it?

The editing rights are there for the moderator to use. But let us say, that even if it could not be edited, if the willingness was there, a new thread could have been started with the updated information and stickied so that it can be readily and easily accessible. But this was not done.

As said above, this makes it less easy for people to find the guidelines. It is a step away from supporting the RP worlds, than a step closer, and it shows. It is disheartening and a disservice to all those over so many years that not only first chose Laurelin, but even started all over again there from scratch coming from other servers for that official support that contributed significantly to a more tailored enviroment for immersion and role play. To have it now somewhat disregarded, it is very disappointing to say the least. And as has been said before, apart from how the community feels, from a marketing perspective, you do also a disservice to the image of the game itself. LotRO is known (even outside of the game in other sources) as one of the finest, if not the best, example of an mmo with a very good role playing community. By taking the official support for it away, or if not that, simply stepping somewhat down from that role, you project an unfavourable picture to potential new players who want come for the story and rpg element rather than the mmo part (and that, for LotRO, is most often true; many, many folk come to this game only for the world, story, and lore). And at the same time discouraging the existing community of the server that has put in years of 'work', dedication, and support into it through various ways.


Apart from that, it is the last part of Cordovan's answer, ('and I don't really know that we plan to be all rules lawyer-y about it') what seems somewhat alarming to me, because it reflects, whether willingly or not, a lack of understanding and appreciation about the significant role these rules have played in the onset of Laurelin and the different way this server has grown and shaped up over the years. Had not the server had these foundations laid out, and upheld over the years, it would most likely not have become what it became to be; all these players with the common interests and passion on creating stories and played out in-game, art, events, music, poetry, and so many having a great care for a more immersive enviroment and the lore - they would not have gathered on one server. And that server would not have been the home to so many great role playing community events, kinships and kinless groups inspired by the books, Tolkien reading days, player storylines and more.

This ruleset has had a profound effect on the way the server was set and grew over the years from people joining for the same interests and enviroment. The ongoing official acknowledgement and support of it over the years has preserved that enviroment and made it a world of LotRO that so many deeply appreciate, and even served as a way to attract new players. Do you want LotRO to lose that?






[Here is an updated version of that thread, with broken links and outdated information corrected. As we can see from that updated thread, if the will is there, it can be done.]

[Cordovan]

I am a bit busy at the moment, but we can work on it. The trick is that since the server merge, the community of Laurelin has become more diverse, and recent discussions on the forums here clearly show that there are as many people who want us to be super-strict on the rules as those who feel very strongly that we should stop being so harsh to people trying to have fun in-game. There's also a sentiment that the exceptional RP naming rules were used to harass others. I appreciate that some want a very strict barrier to entry on Laurelin based on a deep knowledge of lore-specific nomenclature, but we have to accept that not everyone wants to play that game, and some people who have been on Laurelin for some time now feel like they didn't have a choice when it came time to transfer servers, and ended up on Laurelin.

Rather than it being a case of us being heavy-handed in applying rules, we'd rather respond to the desires of the community. But it's clear that there is a deep divide on Laurelin, and that needs to be settled before we have another sticky post that can be used as ammunition.

[Erennor]

It is the obvious violations such as 'Ipawnyouha' 'Fluffydonkeys' 'Bionicman' and so on that the vast majority have spoken against of in their concern and understandably so. Even players that were transferring from the other closing servers to Laurelin were understanding and accepting of that. So I do not see how a different conclusion has been drawn of: only those that want super-strict and those that do not.

From reading all the posts in that long thread about this topic that was started a while ago, as well as from all my years of experience on the server, it seems very evident that most folk are not talking about the right sound, meaning or the letters of a name (or otherwise as you say the super-strict). But merely for a name to be within the setting, and not nonsense. It has been like this before the server consolidations. People generally cared so long as the names merely seemed to be believable for the setting, and not harp on the details within a name such as the right syllables, whether the meaning/translation of it makes sense (for names not in the Common Tongue) or whether a letter has been placed in the right order (unless it was/is done for scholarly purposes and even then not to demand others to go and rename their characters because of it)



As for some people feeling that they did not have a choice during the server transfers, it is more true to say that for Laurelin players than for the other servers, because all those that chose Laurelin (and came to it from other servers over the years and started again from level 1), did not have an alternate solution. They could not go elsewhere because Laurelin has been the only English-speaking server with this policy that promotes and supports a more immersive enviroment. Whereas players of the other servers had a choice: the Snowbourn server. Thus this does not stand well as a valid justification from the opposite side.

[Pfeifenkraut]

I am a bit busy at the moment, but we can work on it. The trick is that since the server merge, the community of Laurelin has become more diverse, and recent discussions on the forums here clearly show that there are as many people who want us to be super-strict on the rules as those who feel very strongly that we should stop being so harsh to people trying to have fun in-game. There's also a sentiment that the exceptional RP naming rules were used to harass others. I appreciate that some want a very strict barrier to entry on Laurelin based on a deep knowledge of lore-specific nomenclature, but we have to accept that not everyone wants to play that game, and some people who have been on Laurelin for some time now feel like they didn't have a choice when it came time to transfer servers, and ended up on Laurelin.

Rather than it being a case of us being heavy-handed in applying rules, we'd rather respond to the desires of the community. But it's clear that there is a deep divide on Laurelin, and that needs to be settled before we have another sticky post that can be used as ammunition.

Your forums discussion does not represent the reality of being on Laurelin. You have no clue what you are talking about.

People aren't worried about iffy names, just the most extreme ones. Yet GMs don't change the extreme names anymore, and haven't for a year and a half: names like Autoturretunit and Fluffymcfluffpants. Nothing seems to happen about /say infractions or griefing of RPers, which gets pretty common during festivals and any other large gathering of players. Most of us don't bother making tickets of any sort anymore, because they get ignored. There hasn't been a 'relaxed policy': there's been no enforcement at all. Of course, in that time, there WAS a list of advertised rules for the RP server. You've listed rules and then not enforced them. You created the problem.

In the game, there were people griefing others about names, but generally they were not the RP community, they were trolls that use every subject to grief others for their own amusement, and I can tell you who most of those players are. But there's been far more griefing in the other direction, people screaming at the RPers about the horrible people they are. And yes, some of that bunch are the exact same trolls. On live, it's been trolls that don't care either way about the issue that are the source of most of the grief, and they've only had that big easy button to push because you gave it to them by advertising rules that you don't enforce.

On the forums, most of the voices screaming against the RP rules were the same few people over and over again, or people not even playing the game, or not playing on an RP-server at all with no intent to ever do so.

PLEASE clear up this problem of your own creation. Post the rules that you people are willing to enforce, whatever they are, and then enforce them! Do it yesterday. Whatever problems and confusion exist about the RP servers at this point are entirely due to bad management.

[Oelle]

I am a bit busy at the moment, but we can work on it. The trick is that since the server merge, the community of Laurelin has become more diverse, and recent discussions on the forums here clearly show that there are as many people who want us to be super-strict on the rules as those who feel very strongly that we should stop being so harsh to people trying to have fun in-game. There's also a sentiment that the exceptional RP naming rules were used to harass others. I appreciate that some want a very strict barrier to entry on Laurelin based on a deep knowledge of lore-specific nomenclature, but we have to accept that not everyone wants to play that game, and some people who have been on Laurelin for some time now feel like they didn't have a choice when it came time to transfer servers, and ended up on Laurelin.

Rather than it being a case of us being heavy-handed in applying rules, we'd rather respond to the desires of the community. But it's clear that there is a deep divide on Laurelin, and that needs to be settled before we have another sticky post that can be used as ammunition.

you just need to make clear rules that you will enforce.
making exaggerated rules and then not enforcing them is the problem.
I cant speak for Laurelin, just for Belegaer, but on Belegaer, its clearly the majority in worldchat, that agrees on names like Wlankabel, Lankabel, Cpu, Volleyballschlaeger, Autoreifen etc. being annoying, while much less people have problems with names that are from the wrong fantasy universe, but at least fit to the fantasy genre / time / setting.
And Chatrules that forbid OOC in several channels are just unrealistic.

Harassment with naming rules goes in both directions. yes, there are maybe-borderline names that get used by some people to annoy players that didnt see the problem that most players wouldnt have seen. Thats why a rule needs to be clear and not borderliny.
And yes, there are people that just create toons with stupid names just to annoy worldchat.

[Daniyel]

we'd rather respond to the desires of the community. But it's clear that there is a deep divide on Laurelin, and that needs to be settled before we have another sticky post that can be used as ammunition.If lauralin players want to see change and resolve the divide, there could be some kind of semi-reliable survey of public opinion. one where each laurelin account marks buttons on a scale of 1 to 5 or 1 to 3 on something with the middle options being equivalent to 'indifferent' etc.

whatever means of assement, if any, are decided upon, there needs to be ample time for those away form the game to respons, something like 1-3 months should do it. IMO, if a player is gone for 3+ months, (short of being on tour in military), they are inactive and probably don't care strongly about one way or the other.
a simply survey monkey would do the trick maybe?

[Elwenwing]

I am a bit busy at the moment, but we can work on it. The trick is that since the server merge, the community of Laurelin has become more diverse, and recent discussions on the forums here clearly show that there are as many people who want us to be super-strict on the rules as those who feel very strongly that we should stop being so harsh to people trying to have fun in-game. There's also a sentiment that the exceptional RP naming rules were used to harass others. I appreciate that some want a very strict barrier to entry on Laurelin based on a deep knowledge of lore-specific nomenclature, but we have to accept that not everyone wants to play that game, and some people who have been on Laurelin for some time now feel like they didn't have a choice when it came time to transfer servers, and ended up on Laurelin.

Rather than it being a case of us being heavy-handed in applying rules, we'd rather respond to the desires of the community. But it's clear that there is a deep divide on Laurelin, and that needs to be settled before we have another sticky post that can be used as ammunition.

Thank you kindly for your reply Cordovan! It's much appreciated!

I understand times are very busy for you right now, but I do hope you will be able to address this matter in more detail in the months to come!

Also I do understand your view, and roleplayers as well as all others, including people who came after the mergers, need a place where they feel at home, and that can be on Laurelin in my opinion!

Laurelin has always been a very diverse server in my experience, and certainly not a home to strict roleplayers alone! (I joined late 2012, and I'm a casual roleplayer who enjoys most aspects of the game equally!)

There certainly never has been a very strict barrier to enter, and in my general experience players are quite lenient, helpful and respectful to eachother!

That said as players of a RP server with it's additional rules, there is and should be an expectancy of general respect and acceptance of those rules! I think it's fair to expect a player who creates a character on a RP server to have the general intention to follow the guidelines set out by SSG!

I do hope you agree with this, as that is pretty much the basis for a RP server!

So I feel it is very important to have clarity about the RP rules from SSG, and they do need to be somewhere in a public place available for all to view! An unstickied forum thread is not the best place!

And perhaps clarity is needed about SSG's expectancy of players to abide to the RP rules on official RP servers as well!

If there is no clarity it can cause discussions as well!

Also I think the forum discussion you mentioned is perhaps not the most representative! But even there I think the general agreement was that the RP name rule policy should nowadays be less strict and mainly focus on the most obvious infractions, and the general RP rules itself were not part of the discussion!

[Erroldor]

But it's clear that there is a deep divide on Laurelin, and that needs to be settled before we have another sticky post that can be used as ammunition.

I would strongly hope that some plan can be formulated to address this "divide" of which you speak and the "plan" isn't simply to do nothing and see if one side of the "divide" will dry up and go away miraculously.

From the perspective of a role player who came to Laurelin specifically because of the rules set, I feel very much as though I've been cheated out of the experience that I made a point of selecting this server for. But I don't really complain about people who choose not to RP, so long as they go about their own business and pretty much ignore me I can pretty much ignore them. But the completely stupidly out of character, out of place, stupid names like Rockgoddess or Imabigtoughtank are mighty hard to ignore and well, did I mention stupid? And harassment shouldn't be tolerated under any circumstances.

[Elwenwing]

[/I]I would strongly hope that some plan can be formulated to address this "divide" of which you speak and the "plan" isn't simply to do nothing and see if one side of the "divide" will dry up and go away miraculously.

From the perspective of a role player who came to Laurelin specifically because of the rules set, I feel very much as though I've been cheated out of the experience that I made a point of selecting this server for. But I don't really complain about people who choose not to RP, so long as they go about their own business and pretty much ignore me I can pretty much ignore them. But the completely stupidly out of character, out of place, stupid names like Rockgoddess or Imabigtoughtank are mighty hard to ignore and well, did I mention stupid? And harassment shouldn't be tolerated under any circumstances.

I feel this so-called "divide" between players can only be settled by SSG providing us with clear guidelines and policies they expect players on RP servers to follow!

I think the "old" rules are still well-written and a good foundation for that!

[Erennor]

On the forums, most of the voices screaming against the RP rules were the same few people over and over again, or people not even playing the game, or not playing on an RP-server at all with no intent to ever do so.

I thought the same while writing my post above, but forgot to add it in the end. On that forum thread when the server was asked about the policy, Cordovan, most people that where fiercely against the rp support, were:

• the same few folk posting again and again.
• players of other servers with no or little experience on Laurelin, that wanted to have a say for a server they do not seemingly care or have much interest for

And even so, I remember that they were still far outnumbered by those in support of the rules. Again, I do not refer to the very strict cases that I hear some refer to, but what the vast majority of all of us have been saying and that is about obvious out of character words used for names such as: 'Fishslapper', 'Porkchop' 'Loredestroyer' and so on. That, and of course the channels reserved for IC use, and the protection of role play and events from harassment.

Based on what you say here Cordovan, if that is your current conclusion, it would be wise to re-read that thread. Yes, it is very long, but to speak my mind out, your words do not seem to reflect well the conclusive points of that thread, and it is important to have a thorough understanding and refreshed memory ere proceeding with this matter. At the same time it is worth keeping in mind that most Laurelin role players do not take part on the forums. Even folk that were/are avid role players, and event organizers, they do not seem to come here. I can only imagine how much more greater the difference would further be if they all did and let their voices be heard.

PLEASE clear up this problem of your own creation. Post the rules that you people are willing to enforce, whatever they are, and then enforce them!

No, not 'whatever' they are. In that sense they may end up being far, far lesser, and almost non-existent. But there is outdated information and broken links that need to be replaced.

Rather than it being a case of us being heavy-handed in applying rules, we'd rather respond to the desires of the community. But it's clear that there is a deep divide on Laurelin, and that needs to be settled before we have another sticky post that can be used as ammunition.

The desires of the community were to have one such server with this additional support. That is why Laurelin, and Belegaer, were officially designated so, as RP worlds, complete with additional support for it. That is what the community wanted, and that is what they were given in the onset of the game, and kept so over the long years ahead. And that is one of the main reasons why so many players of other servers have over the years been leaving their previous worlds starting anew on Laurelin.



As for an official survey, as another poster suggested, for my part I do not fear it at all; long and very active experience on the server over the years (speaking with hundreds and hundreds of players over that course of time) makes me feel confident enough that the outcome will be in favour of Laurelin, of upholding the policy and continuing the support.






Now, let's take a look at the rules as they are currently stated.


Roleplaying Name Policy:

May not reflect any subject matter that did not exist within The Lord of the Rings lore.
Examples: Hamburger, Templar, Roman, Computer, Car, Mayan, Peanutbutter, Blitzkreig, Bicycle, Tomatosoup.

May not be modern non-fantasy names, nick-names, or slang.
Examples: Bustacap, Bionicman, Robotrampage, Roflcopter, Beefhead, Lololmao, Whyushootme, Foshizzle.

Should follow the naming conventions provided by the naming guidelines at the Character Creation screen.

Must be within the spirit of The Lord of the Rings Online.



I can now see nothing unclear apart from one thing.

That is where it says 'may not be modern non-fantasy names'. For as we can see in the books, some people of the world had non-fantasy names: the Men of Bree. They use simple, sensible English-sounding names that are generally short. Examples are: Nat, Tom, Cole. So that part could be edited to include this, or if not, then leave it for the character creation screen in the naming details below.

Also, perhaps the last sentence would be more useful as: 'Must be within the spirit of Middle-earth'.





Chat-channels:

The channels and locations that have chat restrictions are:

Trade. Trade chat must be in character.
Say (the area around you). Say chat must be in character.
Regional. Regional chat must be in character.
LFF (looking for fellowship). LFF chat must be in character.
Shout / Yell. Shouting or yelling to players must be in character.
Emote. Emotes, done by typing “/emote” without the quotes, must be in character.
Player Biographies. Players may create biographies for their characters. These biographies must be in character.



The channels and locations that have no chat restrictions are:

OOC (out of character). This channel should be where all normal out of character discussion takes place, aside from advice questions.
Advice. This channel allows out of character chat when asking for advice on The Lord of the Rings Online.
Kinship. Kinship chat may be in character or out of character. While kinships may choose to be in character, Turbine will not take action on out of character chat in kinship chat channels.
Player-created chat channels. Player created chat channels may be in character or out of character.
Private Chat / Tells. Private chat or tells between players may be in character or out of character.
Fellowship / Raid. Fellowship or raid chat may be in character or out of character.
In-Game Mail. In-game mail may be in character or out of character.
Crafted Items / Legendary Items. Some crafted items and legendary items may have notations or names put on them by the crafter or owner. These notations and names may be in character or out of character.
LFF Notes. Players using the Social panel to find fellowships may have notes that are in character or out of character.


As we know LFF, Advice, and Trade too if I remember well, were removed. So that is outdated information that is indeed of being edited. The world channel too, is not included.

[Elwenwing]

As far as chat channels go, I find it important for at least, /say, /shout, and /emote to be IC in public environments!

These are the three channels that affect the game directly surrounding the player, and it's important to have those IC when interacting with other players!

And these are all the channels needed for roleplaying! Plus they are the ones that affect immersion the most!

The other channels could all be OOC or at the player's discretion, including /world in my opinion!

That would make it easy enough for anyone to filter out the channels that are OOC, and at the same time there are plenty of alternatives to have OOC chat too if so desired, e.g. /tell, /fellowships

[Erennor]

The Regional channel too, should remain as it has always been stated: In Character.

It can be used in an IC manner reasonably well: with the rumors and sightings way, usually written in the third person.

Two examples given in the guide:

[Regional] 'A company of dwarves came into the village this morning, and rumor has it that they carried many goods that they will be selling at the market square.'

[Regional] 'A small group of Bree-folk was seen heading off to the farmlands to drive away the local brigands that have been causing some trouble. [[Need a healer for <name of quest>]]'


It is the kind of talk that may be presented as hearsay, or talk between the locals, and thus serves well its place in the Regional channel.


As for out of character talk, players will still have the option for it: in the OOC channel, as it has ever been. So all players have an option. But this is nothing new. It has been so all this time. OOC has been there all these years for players to freely talk out of character, and now, there is also an additional one: World. So there is certainly no need to change the regional from IC to OOC. Yet for the role playing side, it can be of need. Leave the Regional channel In Character.

[camenecium]

I am a bit busy at the moment, but we can work on it. The trick is that since the server merge, the community of Laurelin has become more diverse, and recent discussions on the forums here clearly show that there are as many people who want us to be super-strict on the rules as those who feel very strongly that we should stop being so harsh to people trying to have fun in-game. There's also a sentiment that the exceptional RP naming rules were used to harass others. I appreciate that some want a very strict barrier to entry on Laurelin based on a deep knowledge of lore-specific nomenclature, but we have to accept that not everyone wants to play that game, and some people who have been on Laurelin for some time now feel like they didn't have a choice when it came time to transfer servers, and ended up on Laurelin.

Rather than it being a case of us being heavy-handed in applying rules, we'd rather respond to the desires of the community. But it's clear that there is a deep divide on Laurelin, and that needs to be settled before we have another sticky post that can be used as ammunition.

Turbine created that divide in the community by relaxing the naming rules during the server merge, promising the rules would be enforced again soon, not clearly communicating those policies during the character transfer process, and then reneging on the promise to restore Laurelin to its original state. Now that you've let the problem fester too long to be easily fixed, you pull the sticky down? I am disappointed by this attempt to dodge the issue by blaming it on division in the community that you, in fact, caused.

The first step to addressing this issue is to stop dodging and admit that Turbine created this problem and SSG is committed to finding a solution for all players. What I want at this point? A new server where the original RP naming rules will be enforced and transfer tokens to get all my characters there.

[HairytoesMcfluffyfoot]

and i see the laurelin self appointed naming police are frothing at the ears again, quite frankly i would be for the shutting down of the role play support till its stops being used as a weapon of trolls, and implementing the following measures,

1. Tickets only available to subscribers

2. As the server is clearly marked EU isp ban all non EU players from EU designated servers. ( mainly looking @ NA players here as they have their own servers)

3. All those who repeatably raise name based tickets that are not upheld should be banned for harassment ( same goes for the naming and shaming in worldchat) perma - ban for third offence

4. Close all the servers and relaunch with the RP tag fully removed as there would not be the harassment and endless arguments

5. subscription based access to RP channels if they want GM support they should have to pay for it.


the fact is and was the rules as they stood was and still are being used to harass paying customers in quite a shameful and cowardly manner, often i suspect by people making no financial contribution to the ongoing health of the game overall. and laurelin in particular.

[Mirhaen]

Hmm why is this topic back? We have discussed at length in the old post and got an answer. We actually agreed on all points except one - how far the naming policy should go (how strict it should be), and mind you, for the grey zone names only, for we also did agree on obvious problematic names.

[Mausen]

I am a bit busy at the moment, but we can work on it. The trick is that since the server merge, the community of Laurelin has become more diverse, and recent discussions on the forums here clearly show that there are as many people who want us to be super-strict on the rules as those who feel very strongly that we should stop being so harsh to people trying to have fun in-game. There's also a sentiment that the exceptional RP naming rules were used to harass others. I appreciate that some want a very strict barrier to entry on Laurelin based on a deep knowledge of lore-specific nomenclature, but we have to accept that not everyone wants to play that game, and some people who have been on Laurelin for some time now feel like they didn't have a choice when it came time to transfer servers, and ended up on Laurelin.

Rather than it being a case of us being heavy-handed in applying rules, we'd rather respond to the desires of the community. But it's clear that there is a deep divide on Laurelin, and that needs to be settled before we have another sticky post that can be used as ammunition.

I hate to be a bit of a stickler on this Cordovan, but that argument is simply invalid.

At the time of the server merger, the preservation of the rules on Laurelin was a really big issue, and it was outright stated by Turbine that the rules would be KEPT IN PLACE and enforced, with players not wishing to follow them having to opt for the other servers. - To be quite frank: Players who transferred to Laurelin and ignored the ruleset, only to invoke the rules and see them enforced made a huge issue of it, taking to threats and what have you against the existing Laurelin players.
The transferees DID have a choice, they could have chosen the NON-RP server. That they did not do that, is not the fault of the pre-existing Laurelin community, yet at every turn the old players on Laurelin have gotten to take abuse for reporting people, for stating they think names of others do not belong etc. etc. etc.

A huge number of players have moved to Laurelin without any fuzz and any issue, and they have been made welcome and invited into the world of RP. The problem is that like in the real world, it is the troublemakers that made the most noise and thus seem to be in the majority. - Blaming the pre-existing players/roleplayers on Laurelin for your own inability to read the server rules is in my view simply stupid beyond reason. The server mergers were a pain, but put the blame where the blame is due. The GMs no longer enforce the naming rules of Laurelin, and RP has dwindled to almost being non-existent on the scale it was before the merger, why?, to be honest looking at it now, due to the huge influx of people who were pissed off at the roleplayers, because they thought Laurelin had no rules, and that leading to the GMs ignoring rules you actually stated are still in effect.

Until SSG comes clean and decides either to piss away 10 years of roleplayers being able to roleplay on Laurelin without having to accept harassment of their meetings, or being told off for roleplaying and wishing to stick to the lore, or SSG decides that it should hold true to what first was promised when the servers returned to Turbine from Codemasters, and then was re-promised at the time of the server merger, you guys are effectively driving people away from the game. Both roleplayers and none-roleplayers.

Personally I hope you decide to let us have this free-haven for roleplay, and you could still ALL voices regarding the problems of the merger with a simple solution:

1. Restate the RP rules of Laurelin including name rules and enforce them.
2. Offer a free transfer away from Laurelin to anyone who tickets a petition for it inside say a 2 month period.

Yes, it will cost some otherwise paid for transfer tokens, but, you will end up with both parties happier - Roleplayers for getting their 10 year old home back, and the non-roleplayers for being allowed to transfer cost-free.

You state you prefer to listen to what the community wants. Laurelin is unique in MMO's it was the first place where RP was not only encouraged, but tampering with it was enforced. Listen to the non-RP'ers, and you kill a truly unique gaming experience in LotRO, and you kill off a lot of old timer accounts on Laurelin, but perhaps that's the goal: Get rid of the lifetimer roleplayers and earn on the kids who just want to raid. - I hope instead you will listen to the ROLEPLAYING community, instead of opting to get rid of us, like so many other game companies have done.

[Mausen]

and i see the laurelin self appointed naming police are frothing at the ears again, quite frankly i would be for the shutting down of the role play support till its stops being used as a weapon of trolls, and implementing the following measures,

1. Tickets only available to subscribers

2. As the server is clearly marked EU isp ban all non EU players from EU designated servers. ( mainly looking @ NA players here as they have their own servers)

3. All those who repeatably raise name based tickets that are not upheld should be banned for harassment ( same goes for the naming and shaming in worldchat) perma - ban for third offence

4. Close all the servers and relaunch with the RP tag fully removed as there would not be the harassment and endless arguments

5. subscription based access to RP channels if they want GM support they should have to pay for it.


the fact is and was the rules as they stood was and still are being used to harass paying customers in quite a shameful and cowardly manner, often i suspect by people making no financial contribution to the ongoing health of the game overall. and laurelin in particular.

...and you claim the roleplayers are frothing at the ears? You want to punish ALL roleplayers, threatening their ability to exist in the game, how is that not harassment?

[Oelle]

Hmm why is this topic back? We have discussed at length in the old post and got an answer. We actually agreed on all points except one - how far the naming policy should go (how strict it should be), and mind you, for the grey zone names only, for we also did agree on obvious problematic names.

"We" agreed, that there should be a policy that should be enforced.
SSG instead unstickied the old policy and stopped enforcing it.
Thats why the topic is back

[Elwenwing]

and i see the laurelin self appointed naming police are frothing at the ears again, quite frankly i would be for the shutting down of the role play support till its stops being used as a weapon of trolls, and implementing the following measures,

1. Tickets only available to subscribers

2. As the server is clearly marked EU isp ban all non EU players from EU designated servers. ( mainly looking @ NA players here as they have their own servers)

3. All those who repeatably raise name based tickets that are not upheld should be banned for harassment ( same goes for the naming and shaming in worldchat) perma - ban for third offence

4. Close all the servers and relaunch with the RP tag fully removed as there would not be the harassment and endless arguments

5. subscription based access to RP channels if they want GM support they should have to pay for it.


the fact is and was the rules as they stood was and still are being used to harass paying customers in quite a shameful and cowardly manner, often i suspect by people making no financial contribution to the ongoing health of the game overall. and laurelin in particular.

As far as I know we all voluntarily chose to play on Laurelin, a RP server with an added set of RP rules that apply to every player there!

Asking SSG for a clear statement about the RP rules, while displaying a willingness to make them a bit less strict (but still in line with the RP nature of the server), and asking for a general respect of players to adhere to those RP rules is apparently "harrassment" then?

I think as a player who specifically chooses to play on Laurelin just because of those RP rules, all these are perfectly fair questions!

Also as OP I would like to ask to keep the discussion here as polite and civil as possible!

Namecalling and pointing fingers at eachother is not being helpful!

[Elwenwing]

I hate to be a bit of a stickler on this Cordovan, but that argument is simply invalid.

At the time of the server merger, the preservation of the rules on Laurelin was a really big issue, and it was outright stated by Turbine that the rules would be KEPT IN PLACE and enforced, with players not wishing to follow them having to opt for the other servers. - To be quite frank: Players who transferred to Laurelin and ignored the ruleset, only to invoke the rules and see them enforced made a huge issue of it, taking to threats and what have you against the existing Laurelin players.
The transferees DID have a choice, they could have chosen the NON-RP server. That they did not do that, is not the fault of the pre-existing Laurelin community, yet at every turn the old players on Laurelin have gotten to take abuse for reporting people, for stating they think names of others do not belong etc. etc. etc.

A huge number of players have moved to Laurelin without any fuzz and any issue, and they have been made welcome and invited into the world of RP. The problem is that like in the real world, it is the troublemakers that made the most noise and thus seem to be in the majority. - Blaming the pre-existing players/roleplayers on Laurelin for your own inability to read the server rules is in my view simply stupid beyond reason. The server mergers were a pain, but put the blame where the blame is due. The GMs no longer enforce the naming rules of Laurelin, and RP has dwindled to almost being non-existent on the scale it was before the merger, why?, to be honest looking at it now, due to the huge influx of people who were pissed off at the roleplayers, because they thought Laurelin had no rules, and that leading to the GMs ignoring rules you actually stated are still in effect.

Until SSG comes clean and decides either to piss away 10 years of roleplayers being able to roleplay on Laurelin without having to accept harassment of their meetings, or being told off for roleplaying and wishing to stick to the lore, or SSG decides that it should hold true to what first was promised when the servers returned to Turbine from Codemasters, and then was re-promised at the time of the server merger, you guys are effectively driving people away from the game. Both roleplayers and none-roleplayers.

Personally I hope you decide to let us have this free-haven for roleplay, and you could still ALL voices regarding the problems of the merger with a simple solution:

1. Restate the RP rules of Laurelin including name rules and enforce them.
2. Offer a free transfer away from Laurelin to anyone who tickets a petition for it inside say a 2 month period.

Yes, it will cost some otherwise paid for transfer tokens, but, you will end up with both parties happier - Roleplayers for getting their 10 year old home back, and the non-roleplayers for being allowed to transfer cost-free.

You state you prefer to listen to what the community wants. Laurelin is unique in MMO's it was the first place where RP was not only encouraged, but tampering with it was enforced. Listen to the non-RP'ers, and you kill a truly unique gaming experience in LotRO, and you kill off a lot of old timer accounts on Laurelin, but perhaps that's the goal: Get rid of the lifetimer roleplayers and earn on the kids who just want to raid. - I hope instead you will listen to the ROLEPLAYING community, instead of opting to get rid of us, like so many other game companies have done.

I think this a very good writeup of the situation we have now on Laurelin!

However I do not feel this is necessarily a roleplayer vs non-roleplayer thing! I have non-roleplayer friends on Laurelin who have been there far longer than I have!

They chose to make it their home because of the RP rules allowed them to have a more immersive game experience, while opting out on RP events! And they often join our RP kin for adventure nights, and everyone gets along perfectly fine!

In that way it's more of a debate between players who want to embrace the RP rules vs those who don't!

I do feel that Laurelin is unique in the way it's community has formed over time!

That's why I sincerely hope SSG will want to make the effort to support the RP flag more strongly!

[Elwenwing]

"We" agreed, that there should be a policy that should be enforced.
SSG instead unstickied the old policy and stopped enforcing it.
Thats why the topic is back

This precisely, plus the official RP rules encompass a much broader area than just the naming rules!

I do feel the outcome of the naming policy thread was generally supporters of both sides of the argument wanted basically the same thing!

[Mirhaen]

"We" agreed, that there should be a policy that should be enforced.
SSG instead unstickied the old policy and stopped enforcing it.
Thats why the topic is back

Yes, but talk was mainly concerning names mind you... and there we didn't actually fully agree Grey zone names are still open subject. Other things were not much discussed. And conclusion from Cordovan was to keep things relaxed until further notice. That was my understanding.