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  1. #1
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    So, is any f2p mmo stable or growing?

    Given that lotro has been put in maintenance mode, I started looking around to see what's out there. I saw a few articles saying the only ones still growing are subscription model. I logged into Rift for the first time in a couple of years and it seems to be a ghost town.


    While lotro isn't going away soon, anyone heard of any good f2p games to start looking at?

  2. #2
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    From what I understand lotro has not been put on maintenance mode....yet.

    Edit: Or maybe it has, I'm getting confused by all the conflicting "info".
    Last edited by Sheaezra; Jul 11 2016 at 01:44 AM.

  3. #3
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    The post isn't about your inability to accept the obvious, it's about finding suggestions for other games to investigate in the time remaining for this game. It's about preparation.

    If you don't know of such a game, you have nothing to add.

  4. #4
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    We'd like to clear up the forum claims of "maintenance mode": We are still in active development of LOTRO. As stated last week, our development plans remain unchanged, and LOTRO will continue to operate.
    Community Manager, Lord of the Rings Online
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    cool cool

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    We'd like to clear up the forum claims of "maintenance mode": We are still in active development of LOTRO. As stated last week, our development plans remain unchanged, and LOTRO will continue to operate.
    With what little I have seen from you and also heard about you...you seem a pretty straight up person.Will we get another EP or are you it?Also will there be an official statement soon? Good luck with people on this forum and WB Execs...you are gonna need it.
    Excuse me while I whip this out....

  6. #6
    It depends on what type of game that you want. Rift is a great F2P model. The population is decreasing, but has a very solid raiding and PvE experience. They drove out almost all of the PvP people by having raid gear the best in game. SWTOR is a great game, but for some reason I never got hooked on it. It has everything you want in a game. Beautiful worlds, great story lines (rivals LOTRO in this aspect), contains the Star Wars universe, and also is challenging (or was when I played it when it was released). But for some reason it was missing something that I can't explain...

    To be honest I hate the F2P model and don't understand why people want it. Paying $120 a year for a subscription is not that much for a game that is your entertainment. F2P adds unnecessary grinds to a game so the developers can make money. A game doesn't go F2P unless they are having financial issues and often times it is a last resort to keep the game going. Wildstar is a prime example of this.

    I raided on Rift because they stopped raid development on LOTRO. However, I returned as soon as a raid was promised. However, I am nauseated by the grind this game installed since I left at level 85.

    I think I will stay with this game though because of the great community. There is only one game that I am even remotely interested in that is in development. Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen looks like it has everything I want. However, after giving money to Everquest Next, I am not supporting a game in pre-alpha ever again.

  7. #7
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    I have tried a number of games.... Rift, WildStar, Star Trek Online, EVO, ArchAche, but I always end up back at LOTRO....

    Of course no game lasts forever, and eventually I will move on.... but I have not found "my game" yet, and I don't think it has been released yet either. I had high hopes for Everquest Next but it got cancelled.
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015!
    -----
    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" and "In The Near Future™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the words, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™", "Near", and "Future" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    We'd like to clear up the forum claims of "maintenance mode": We are still in active development of LOTRO. As stated last week, our development plans remain unchanged, and LOTRO will continue to operate.
    Sure, you've laid off all but three developers, so you're going to do more than ignore bugs that have been around for years. Got it...

    Sorry, but I've been in high tech since 1980. All software has a life cycle, not just games. It's clear what the layoffs mean.

    Also, people who are incapable of addressing my first two posts on this thread certainly aren't capable of providing interesting new content or fixing old bugs.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by discodanman45 View Post
    It depends on what type of game that you want. Rift is a great F2P model. The population is decreasing, but has a very solid raiding and PvE experience. They drove out almost all of the PvP people by having raid gear the best in game. SWTOR is a great game, but for some reason I never got hooked on it. It has everything you want in a game. Beautiful worlds, great story lines (rivals LOTRO in this aspect), contains the Star Wars universe, and also is challenging (or was when I played it when it was released). But for some reason it was missing something that I can't explain...

    To be honest I hate the F2P model and don't understand why people want it. Paying $120 a year for a subscription is not that much for a game that is your entertainment. F2P adds unnecessary grinds to a game so the developers can make money. A game doesn't go F2P unless they are having financial issues and often times it is a last resort to keep the game going. Wildstar is a prime example of this.

    I raided on Rift because they stopped raid development on LOTRO. However, I returned as soon as a raid was promised. However, I am nauseated by the grind this game installed since I left at level 85.

    I think I will stay with this game though because of the great community. There is only one game that I am even remotely interested in that is in development. Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen looks like it has everything I want. However, after giving money to Everquest Next, I am not supporting a game in pre-alpha ever again.
    I never played Rift long enough to get to end game. As you say with SWTOR, it was pretty and interesting but, for some reason, didn't quite catch my imagination. I heard the problem with SWTOR was it leveled out too quickly.

    F2P? I'm not willing to pay for another game right now. I first tried LOTRO's f2p when I was laid off from a company. They then stole the content I'd bought with the initial CD, making me re-buy it with TP. That put me off of every going back to subscription with LOTRO. I've been trying to start my own business in recent years, so going back to subscription isn't an option right now either, so F2P is a way to keep playing a game.

    thanks for your feedback!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by groucho42 View Post
    I never played Rift long enough to get to end game. As you say with SWTOR, it was pretty and interesting but, for some reason, didn't quite catch my imagination. I heard the problem with SWTOR was it leveled out too quickly.

    F2P? I'm not willing to pay for another game right now. I first tried LOTRO's f2p when I was laid off from a company. They then stole the content I'd bought with the initial CD, making me re-buy it with TP. That put me off of every going back to subscription with LOTRO. I've been trying to start my own business in recent years, so going back to subscription isn't an option right now either, so F2P is a way to keep playing a game.

    thanks for your feedback!
    Rift has a great end game and if you like raiding it is probably the best option out there. The biggest issue I have with the game is every class can do everything. A cleric has the ability to main tank, main heal, AOE heal, two support souls, single target range DPS, single target melee DPS, AOE range DPS, and AOE melee DPS. There are too many options in Rift, that is what I hate about it. I started playing a warrior because I all was expected to do was DPS and not have to play 8 different roles in a raid.

  11. #11
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    For a casual player with often less than 15 game hours per week the learning curve in to another MMO is just tiresome. I tried Arch-age, FF14 and StarTrek. out of those, FF14 was easiest to get in to and I actually played it for a month or two, but I realized that I can not entertain two MMO's at the same time. Knowing that I still made an effort for StarTrek, but did not feel pulled in to it. I like the series and the movies and I even fancy the idea of StarTrek becoming an approximation to our future society in a few hundred years, but somehow the game as such lost its appeal pretty fast. I am kinda fond of the idea of just getting out there and do whatever I want to do and a game that could offer that has not crossed my path yet.

    But I seldom try new games.

    Having said that I am on the lookout for when Warhammer 40.000 will launch their MMO, I am an avid fan of the Dawn of War series and Space Marine.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    We'd like to clear up the forum claims of "maintenance mode": We are still in active development of LOTRO. As stated last week, our development plans remain unchanged, and LOTRO will continue to operate.
    Thank you for this.... but I think the community needs a little more re-assurance. In the past Turbine has often said that they don't look much beyond the next update, so the focus will without a doubt now turn towards Update 19, with very few ideas of what will happen with Update 20.

    While this makes perfect sense with games and/or software of which we have absolutely no concern of being retired, I'm afraid we don't have this confidence with Lotro. In the 6-year anniversary video comments were made about the upcoming license renewal in 2017, and they were rather vague, as in: "We will address that when we get to it, we can't comment on that now". Unfortunately that didn't instill a lot of confidence in the community, and many are still wondering how the license renewal will be done, and whether the game will indeed continue after some time in 2017.

    In short, a LOT of people are wondering if they should spend money on this game, only to find out that it will be for naught in 2017. I'm sure you understand that the recent layoffs have only strengthened the belief that Lotro is headed for a "sunset" sooner rather than later, and I think the community will need a little more re-assurance than a forum post that this is indeed NOT the case, and that Lotro WILL be active for years to come. Perhaps we would need a new Executive Producer's letter outlining the upcoming plans, not just for Update 19, but also for next year and specifically in regards to the IP/content license renewal.

    A few specific questions you may want to address now:

    - If the IP license will not get renewed, does that mean all CURRENT work will still be available to the community to play with, or will that mean a scheduled sunset of all Lotro services?

    - If the IP license will not get renewed, will you release the source code for the servers or the server software so that people may try to run their own servers? (I know this is PROBABLY a big fat NO, but it doesn't hurt to ask)

    - Does the Turbine team have every intention to renew the license in 2017, and should we expect it to be renewed unless there is opposition from the license holder that are beyond Turbine's control?


    You have to understand that the layoffs have cast a lot of doubt on the future of Lotro, despite your post that development will continue "as planned". While that may be true for Update 19, combined with posts from previous staff indicating that you only plan for about 6 months out, it doesn't give players the confidence they need that in 2017 it won't be all over. After all, if indeed you are only planning for about 6 months ahead, development can go on "as planned" until the day of the license renewal.

    So please, re-enforce our belief that it is still worth it to spend money on this game this year....
    Moved from Riddermark to Arkenstone on 9/29/2015!
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    Disclaimer: The definition of "Soon™" and "In The Near Future™" is based solely on SSG's interpretation of the words, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "Soon™", "Near", and "Future" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    We'd like to clear up the forum claims of "maintenance mode": We are still in active development of LOTRO. As stated last week, our development plans remain unchanged, and LOTRO will continue to operate.
    I'd love to know what your definition of "active development" is?
    All kidding aside, with the staff being dramatically reduced (rumored) and the official announcement of Turbine's new direction (sigh), a few important questions arise:

    - Performance Issues...Can we expect "the engineers" to continue working on all the performance woes that still plague the game?
    - Are we ever going to get another crafting (guild recipes, etc.) update (as previously mentioned prior to the announcement)?
    - Are the classes ever going to get a complete re-look/re-balancing (as previously hinted at prior to the announcement)?
    - Is this raid the swan song of group content for LOTRO--are there any plans to have more traditional instances in the future?
    - Can we expect some type of announcement from an Executive Producer (whomever that be) about the road ahead?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    We'd like to clear up the forum claims of "maintenance mode": We are still in active development of LOTRO. As stated last week, our development plans remain unchanged, and LOTRO will continue to operate.

    This is one thing I have missed, active blue name participation here on the forums. Keep it up!
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by groucho42 View Post
    While lotro isn't going away soon, anyone heard of any good f2p games to start looking at?
    Pokémon Go

    The PC world is dead. And I'm not just talking about games here.
    I'm talking about the market for Desktop Machines. It has been declining as a percentage of the total market on a regular basis since 2010.
    Laptops and other mobile devices, especially Tablets are more than double Desktop sales.
    In 2015 the end of year estimates were 129 million units for Desktops; 194 million units for Laptops and 332 million units for tablets.

    http://www.statista.com/statistics/2...d-desktop-pcs/

    That is the simple reason why WB Entertainment - Turbine's parent, is heading for the Mobil market.

    And in case you missed the news -- Nintendo's stock jumped up $20 per share at this morning's market opening.
    An increase of $7.6 billion to Nintendo's market value.

    The writing is on the wall for F2P desktop games.

    How is Pokémon Go monitizing a free app? I do not know.
    But one assumes that there must be some mechanic -- maybe just the "after-market" ... t-shirts, squishy toys, who knows.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valamar View Post
    The PC world is dead. And I'm not just talking about games here.
    I'm talking about the market for Desktop Machines. It has been declining as a percentage of the total market on a regular basis since 2010.
    I think news of the demise of the desktop/laptop PC has been greatly exaggerated. People aren't buying new machines as often, because neither performance nor performance requirements are increasing as fast as they used to. And just because market share goes down doesn't mean the absolute numbers go down. I don't know anyone who doesn't have either a desktop or a laptop computer, and I don't expect that to change any time soon.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valamar View Post
    How is Pokémon Go monitizing a free app? I do not know.
    The same way any other "free" app does. In-game store where you can "pay to win", though this time the definition is a bit more literal than the one used for the LOTRO store. http://www.ign.com/wikis/pokemon-go/Shop
    If you give away gold bars, someone will complain they're too heavy.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon_Blackbird View Post
    The same way any other "free" app does. In-game store where you can "pay to win", though this time the definition is a bit more literal than the one used for the LOTRO store. http://www.ign.com/wikis/pokemon-go/Shop
    You say that, but when I look at a lot of the items in the LoTRO store, I can see things that cut grinds that they created in-game in half, things that instantly level up your character, and things that boost your character stats. It's not going to give you an instant top-of-the-line end game character, but it's pretty close to pay-to-win.

    The main difference I'm seeing is this - mobile games are less graphically intense, usually need far less engaging of a story line or script, and are nowhere near as complicated in gameplay and functionality. So game companies are getting a much higher RoI to produce 5 or 6 poor-quality mobile games and collect money from impatient players before they quit the game than the company would get from 1 quality PC-based game. Makes perfect sense from a business standpoint...they're going after the money. I just hate it because I love this game and I don't want it to die.
    "Not all those who wander are lost." -Tolkien
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ride_the_Train View Post
    You say that, but when I look at a lot of the items in the LoTRO store, I can see things that cut grinds that they created in-game in half, things that instantly level up your character, and things that boost your character stats. It's not going to give you an instant top-of-the-line end game character, but it's pretty close to pay-to-win.
    Okay, how do you "win" LOTRO?
    If you give away gold bars, someone will complain they're too heavy.
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    ~Anor~
    .: Taika, 29 WDN :.
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    Might as well face it, I'm addicted to WDN

  20. #20
    Here's a good place to start looking.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thurallor View Post
    I think news of the demise of the desktop/laptop PC has been greatly exaggerated. People aren't buying new machines as often, because neither performance nor performance requirements are increasing as fast as they used to. And just because market share goes down doesn't mean the absolute numbers go down. I don't know anyone who doesn't have either a desktop or a laptop computer, and I don't expect that to change any time soon.
    Not to mention, most people that I know that enjoy MMORPGs wouldn't go anywhere near mobile games like Pokemon Go.
    I would argue that the mobile games are targeting a completely different audience and it has nothing to do with the so-called decline of desktop machines and/or MMORPGs.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valamar View Post
    The PC world is dead. And I'm not just talking about games here.
    I'm talking about the market for Desktop Machines. It has been declining as a percentage of the total market on a regular basis since 2010.
    Laptops and other mobile devices, especially Tablets are more than double Desktop sales.
    .
    Are you living in 2007? PC gaming is bigger than ever and hugely thanks to Steam.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon_Blackbird View Post
    Okay, how do you "win" LOTRO?
    How do you "win" any game that doesn't have a definite end point?

    In the case of LoTRO, I would classify "winning" as being able to play the highest level content immediately and with relative ease with the best possible items. You can't quite get there through store purchases, because things like armor, jewelry, essences, LI's, etc. all still have to be obtained and/or leveled in-game. That being said, being able to buy store items that can be sold for in-game gold allows you to buy a lot of these items in the AH. One step closer.

    I would classify "winning" the same in many mobile games. Take the Clash of Clans model as an example - If you spent thousands of dollars, you could build a top level base with every defense and troop maxed out in a matter of 20 minutes. You'd still keep playing...that's the point of mobile games. Keep playing, keep spending money, and we'll work on making new content that will encourage you to spend more.
    "Not all those who wander are lost." -Tolkien
    "No matter where you go, there you are." -Confucius

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    We'd like to clear up the forum claims of "maintenance mode": We are still in active development of LOTRO. As stated last week, our development plans remain unchanged, and LOTRO will continue to operate.
    Did this new CM just ridicule the part of the playerbase that is somewhat active on the forum and who knows how turbine handled the game, the forum and the communication with the playerbase in the past?

    What active development?
    Do you mean that over night turbine suddenly decided to read the countless bug threads in here and is trying to fix this abysmal game? Is the current state of beorning also considered "active development" after over 1 1/2 years since the release of the class considering the current beorning on live server is in his alpha state at best?
    Or active development as in recycling every quest and region and mainly focusing on the epic books while ignoring everything else?

    Lotro will continue to operate?
    Considering the past and turbines approach doing next to nothing to fix the game it indeed will continue to operate - but only on the current abysmal state.

    Btw: as a new CM you had the best chance to show the people in here that change towards an enjoyable game is possible. You quickly botched that chance with your hollow words the people in here have heard plenty from turbine in the past coupled with non-existent follow-up actions. "Hello Eu servers - right?"
    Last edited by daedalusAI; Jul 11 2016 at 08:11 PM.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Thurallor View Post
    I think news of the demise of the desktop/laptop PC has been greatly exaggerated. People aren't buying new machines as often, because neither performance nor performance requirements are increasing as fast as they used to. And just because market share goes down doesn't mean the absolute numbers go down. I don't know anyone who doesn't have either a desktop or a laptop computer, and I don't expect that to change any time soon.
    Yep, absolutely. Any machines in the 2010s have been quite sufficient for most people these days.

 

 
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