Update 18 Beta #1 Release Notes & Known Issues - PRELIMINARY AND NON-FINAL - BULLROARER ONLY

[Deorwyn]

We really did not need a level cap increase, but alas, here it is anyway. I guess I'll just abandon my alts once again.

[Macroscian]

Did bears and wardens need any boost at all? Why all medium armour classes bundled as one?
Really - why?

Rebalance would require changing guard, wardens, bears - and possibly fire RKs.
It would mean changing vitality stat to affect classes differently. Mitigations being the main deal in that but not for all classes, well spotted and well done but the presented fix has no effect other than emphasizing an imbalance already in place.
It would mean changing fate stat individually for the classes - it is possible that RK Mini and LM are not in need of endless power. Let's use food and blue pots and, if needed, pace our skill output again.

Warden must not get free physical mastery just from adding a full set of might tomes 1-14. Likewise for bears. Agility OR might. Alternatively open those dams all the way and hand out free PM to hunter and burglar too.

For hunters, still no stat tied in with traps and dots (well, not noticeably for dots).
Imagine those coming in a % deal, like guard self heals. Imagine that getting adjusted to a fraction of their current effect, removing the ability to solo and requiring healers to heal.

Finally crafting.
Craft tier. We have half a craft tier and the same recipe scrolls loots from landscape mobs past two years.
Just add new. Crafted slotted stuff and crafted essences. Slotted everything and craftable side arms on par with looted ones. Make them slotted. Make a variety of outputs with cool, new weapon skins and deco. Utility.

Guild craft tier is a way forward, also completely overlooked.
Guild is an excellent way to add essence recipes. Every guild tier needs their own essence crafting, from tier 1 to tier 8 essences. They should be the best available essence versions and any type of guilded craft should be able to craft any type of essence. There should be a cooldown of at least one day per type of essence - the separate essences craftings, not the guild pattern cooldowns. Or use guild pattern cooldowns, by all means. These guild crafted essences should be account bound. No mithril coin fees and work-arounds, no big stacks of essences to sell. Just for those who bothered to do the craft guild grind there will be readily available cheap essences for personal use on the alts.

[Vyvyanne]

Notes mention instances, no specific mention of the promised raid - is this coming in U18? I would have thought given dev time for a raid, that if it was due in U18 it would have at least been shown to alpha by now, ergo time for it to get passed to beta?



Perhaps Vyv should chime in on what we are getting this next update...... OR she could sit around and hope we don't notice (a la EU servers moving to Amsterdam).

The raid version of the instance will be coming in 18.2 the next major patch after Update 18. Summertime.

[Spilo]

So after spending some time on Bullroarer, my suspicions were confirmed.

High mastery builds are really the way to go now. RKs and Wardens especially seem to be benefitting immensely from it. This was clearly not thought through.

In addition creeps received about a 10% morale boost and a 8% damage boost at level cap- really less than what I was expecting, and not near enough to compensate for what Freeps are getting now.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...for-Each-Class

Vyvyanne, is there any plan of addressing individual class balance concerns in the near future? At this point, from a PvE and PvP standpoint, the game just desperately needs a non-biased addressing of individual class issues, bugs, and mechanics.

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

The raid version of the instance will be coming in 18.2 the next major patch after Update 18. Summertime.

raid 'version'? Is this implying that there isn't going to be a new raid, just the 6 man or 3 mans turned into a raid? That's extremely disappointing if so.

[Snowlock]

So after spending some time on Bullroarer, my suspicions were confirmed.

High mastery builds are really the way to go now. RKs and Wardens especially seem to be benefitting immensely from it. This was clearly not thought through.

In addition creeps received about a 10% morale boost and a 8% damage boost at level cap- really less than what I was expecting, and not near enough to compensate for what Freeps are getting now.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...for-Each-Class

Vyvyanne, is there any plan of addressing individual class balance concerns in the near future? At this point, from a PvE and PvP standpoint, the game just desperately needs a non-biased addressing of individual class issues, bugs, and mechanics.

You need to understand what I'm about to quote at you. Like, really understand it. Then you can start thinking about PVMP in a new manner. I said this once over the course of some pvmp debate.

The difference between us is that he's still at the micro level view and hasn't learned yet that PVMP at the micro level is too fluid to matter. Any kind of little fixes he recommends that could get through will be subverted or invalidated by a future update,

[siipperi]

raid 'version'? Is this implying that there isn't going to be a new raid, just the 6 man or 3 mans turned into a raid? That's extremely disappointing if so.

Badly worded. Most likely meant raid-instance.

[Denhith]

Badly worded. Most likely meant raid-instance.

Let's hope so.

[Urwendil]

Could spent only little time on BR but here's a summary of my initial thoughts:

- Tanked Quays T1 level 105 at level 100 before Warg-Penning myself to 105. The trash pulls were trivial. So trivial that the group got lost in chat and let Gimli die T1 should indeed have a manageable difficulty and we didn't have time to retry so I can't comment about any boss fights or any T2 at all but... Will see if I can hop in again. The setting and scenery is nice

- Mastery changes: As if we (most classes) don't already have ungodly DPS and healing...

- Avoidance changes: Why?

- New dyes: Please add Scholar recipes for barter. It's how festivals have worked so far (eg. Farmer barter recipes for flower arrangements). I have no objections to making the dyes directly barterable but Scholar recipes (NOT one-shot throwaway ones, maybe with CD if it must) should be added.

[Spilo]

You need to understand what I'm about to quote at you. Like, really understand it. Then you can start thinking about PVMP in a new manner. I said this once over the course of some pvmp debate.

While I theoretically agree with you, the massive broken-ness of some classes requires a micro addressing of some sort. You can go down that list, and see things that have been broken for many updates, if not for many level caps.

[bucko39]

- Mastery changes: As if we (most classes) don't already have ungodly DPS and healing...

- Avoidance changes: Why?

1. Turbine doesn't play the game so they have no idea what the word "balance" means.
2. Because, you know....why not?

[Macroscian]

- New dyes: Please add Scholar recipes for barter. It's how festivals have worked so far (eg. Farmer barter recipes for flower arrangements). I have no objections to making the dyes directly barterable but Scholar recipes (NOT one-shot throwaway ones, maybe with CD if it must) should be added.

Recipes should be readily available, as should mats. An Anorien Wildflower field would be super.

[Vyvyanne]

raid 'version'? Is this implying that there isn't going to be a new raid, just the 6 man or 3 mans turned into a raid? That's extremely disappointing if so.

The raid is being built off of a solo instance that is in Update 18. In U18.2 that same storyline and space from the solo instance will be expanded upon with additional raid bosses, space and mechanics not found in the solo version you experience in U18. We made this choice because while this moment made a great raid experience, we did not want to block that part of the storyline from those who might never wish to do a raid.

[Siddharta]

The raid is being built off of a solo instance that is in Update 18. In U18.2 that same storyline and space from the solo instance will be expanded upon with additional raid bosses, space and mechanics not found in the solo version you experience in U18. We made this choice because while this moment made a great raid experience, we did not want to block that part of the storyline from those who might never wish to do a raid.

Where we can find this instance? Epic story quest?

[Marcho_Brandybuck]

The raid is being built off of a solo instance that is in Update 18. In U18.2 that same storyline and space from the solo instance will be expanded upon with additional raid bosses, space and mechanics not found in the solo version you experience in U18. We made this choice because while this moment made a great raid experience, we did not want to block that part of the storyline from those who might never wish to do a raid.

This reminds me of Lumul-nar and Nala-Dum instances. Nice idea.

[KayleahSunshine]

So after spending some time on Bullroarer, my suspicions were confirmed.

High mastery builds are really the way to go now. RKs and Wardens especially seem to be benefitting immensely from it. This was clearly not thought through.

In addition creeps received about a 10% morale boost and a 8% damage boost at level cap- really less than what I was expecting, and not near enough to compensate for what Freeps are getting now.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...for-Each-Class

Vyvyanne, is there any plan of addressing individual class balance concerns in the near future? At this point, from a PvE and PvP standpoint, the game just desperately needs a non-biased addressing of individual class issues, bugs, and mechanics.

They will never, ever balance the game based on PvP. Ever. It is primarily to them a PVE game and they will balance it for such. PVP is unfortunately an afterthought. It just is. They do the best with what they have, but the game isn't a PvP game ... it's a PvE game with PvP tacked on.

Trying to balance just for PvP can seriously wreck PvE unfortunately. It's not moors specific changes - they do blanketed options.

[infinitewhimsy]

I don't know what you could possibly call the current state of 105 scaled classes like Warden but wrecking the game. They will completely undermine all PvE content.

PvP and PvE interests are not necessarily mutually exclusive. It's not a coincidence that the game's PvP has become more broken at the same time the PvE has become more negligible.

[Spilo]

They will never, ever balance the game based on PvP. Ever. It is primarily to them a PVE game and they will balance it for such. PVP is unfortunately an afterthought. It just is. They do the best with what they have, but the game isn't a PvP game ... it's a PvE game with PvP tacked on.

Trying to balance just for PvP can seriously wreck PvE unfortunately. It's not moors specific changes - they do blanketed options.

Basically just what Infinitewhimsy said... Anything broken for PvP is 90% positive to be broken for PvE as well. Classes like Wardens, Guardians, Runekeepers, and Minstrels, especially. In addition, my list is meant to be PvP-specific changes- as in changes made upon entering a PvP area.

[Gilean-EU]

The raid is being built off of a solo instance that is in Update 18. In U18.2 that same storyline and space from the solo instance will be expanded upon with additional raid bosses, space and mechanics not found in the solo version you experience in U18. We made this choice because while this moment made a great raid experience, we did not want to block that part of the storyline from those who might never wish to do a raid.

Sounds very good to me! And mysterious as well... Although I guess this is Epic quest instance that is one-time only in solo version, who knows, hopefully it's some sort of repeatable solo instance (daily quest of some sort)...

[Silmelin]

The raid is being built off of a solo instance that is in Update 18. In U18.2 that same storyline and space from the solo instance will be expanded upon with additional raid bosses, space and mechanics not found in the solo version you experience in U18. We made this choice because while this moment made a great raid experience, we did not want to block that part of the storyline from those who might never wish to do a raid.

Lovely! Thank you

I do love raiding, but when it comes to story I prefer to solo so I can actually follow the story without the rest of the raid leaving me behind And now I'll be able to go through alone the first time, and then join the larger raid-version after!

[Father_of_Tillogrim]

So after spending some time on Bullroarer, my suspicions were confirmed.

High mastery builds are really the way to go now. RKs and Wardens especially seem to be benefitting immensely from it. This was clearly not thought through.

100% prefer the idea of mastery builds to current morale builds in live.

At this moment if they scale up creep damage a bit more it will be fine. Glasscannon builds are hardly viable at BR right now cause of lack of auda. A small dps increase in creepside and it will push it enough so that more balanced builds are the way to go.

[Spilo]

100% prefer the idea of mastery builds to current morale builds in live.

At this moment if they scale up creep damage a bit more it will be fine. Glasscannon builds are hardly viable at BR right now cause of lack of auda. A small dps increase in creepside and it will push it enough so that more balanced builds are the way to go.

I do concur. Only problem is with classes like Wardens whose heals also get pushed through the roof with higher mastery.

[Snowlock]

I do concur. Only problem is with classes like Wardens whose heals also get pushed through the roof with higher mastery.

Only way they fix that is by un-unifying stats. Put tact mastery back on Will. Leave physical Mastery for Agility & Might, and get rid of raw mastery boosts from items.

[BuuFuu]

The raid version of the instance will be coming in 18.2 the next major patch after Update 18. Summertime.

listen Vyvyanne if will u create a good Raid for us, u must at first balance the Damage Dealer (look Warden and RKs and give much love to hunter champs Burglar).

[KayleahSunshine]

Basically just what Infinitewhimsy said... Anything broken for PvP is 90% positive to be broken for PvE as well. Classes like Wardens, Guardians, Runekeepers, and Minstrels, especially. In addition, my list is meant to be PvP-specific changes- as in changes made upon entering a PvP area.

Unless I'm mistaken I thought I had read a blue name say before that wasn't possible? The class specific moors only changes I mean.