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  1. #1

    Sell Class Trait Points

    Look at this:

    https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Class_Trait_Point

    Everything starting with West Rohan is a tremendous grind for trait points. The need to go to Rohan and clean dishes for hours and to toil through Central Gondor (which is entirely useless otherwise) for trait points is a massive disincentive for alt characters. I have literally been leveling mine via tasks and a 100% XP accel and parking them at lvl 100 with only 62 points, because I do not want to do these nauseating quest hubs again, having already done them on other characters. Turbine, you should sell class trait points in the store. Consider the following...

    - You could use a system that parallels the Promotion Points you sell in the store, players can earn more than the max, but can only use so many. I imagine you can even recycle the code therein, since they both use the tree system.

    - People might be more inclined to buy Blessing of the Valar if they don't need to revisit tedious areas of the game to properly maximize their characters. Why would you skip to 95 just to go back to Rohan and quest for a week as every Rohirrim's hireling maid?

    - Trait Points granted from Questing break the established convention the game has up to level 85. This lack of uniformity is really annoying, how is it reasonable that to max your character you need to track your quest progress via the Wiki, since there's no functionality in the game that indicates that these extremely long quest chains grant points. What if you cancel a quest and can't find it again? How do you even know you should find it? All of this is expectant of a level of familiarity from the player that is unreasonable.

    - Everyone I know speaks of this as a tremendous obstacle to alt characters in the game. I used to have upwards of 5 fully functional maxed characters, so did most of my kin, now nobody manages more than 2. The severity of the LI grind also exacerbates the severity of the trait tree grind, there needs to be relief somewhere.

    "It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed,
    though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope."

  2. #2
    There must remain some point to playing the game and spending time in LOTRO and not spending just cash in the game.

    I think even getting free trait tree points for levels in GOTV BOTV or plvl WP is bad. If you did nothing in the game, you should also have zero trait tree points and zero virtues. I don't care about my eleventy alts becoming gimp overnight if it meant that PLAYING THE GAME became a thing once more.

    EDIT I only have 5 too that are not simply crafters but played.

    Perhaps you could buy trait tree points in the store only if you own all the game areas?
    Let's try to avoid more beginners at cap who just open wallet and don't play.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Macroscian View Post
    There must remain some point to playing the game and spending time in LOTRO and not spending just cash in the game.

    I think even getting free trait tree points for levels in GOTV BOTV or plvl WP is bad. If you did nothing in the game, you should also have zero trait tree points and zero virtues. I don't care about my eleventy alts becoming gimp overnight if it meant that PLAYING THE GAME became a thing once more.
    What do you think the trait points are for? To play the game.

    Sorry but my definition of playing the game isn't redoing the same tired grating quest that I've already done on multiple characters, for the hundredth time. Playing the game means PvP and instances, which requires trait points.

    You don't like GotV and BotV? Then don't buy it. Turbine has elected to sell it, clearly there's a demand, not every e-inch of the game has to cater to your preferences alone.

    And the grind promotes NOT playing the game, so how does leaving it in all its glorious horror make playing the game a thing "again"? The solution is to leave things exactly as they are, that led to the problem? Truly interesting.

    EDIT I only have 5 too that are not simply crafters but played.

    Perhaps you could buy trait tree points in the store only if you own all the game areas?
    Let's try to avoid more beginners at cap who just open wallet and don't play.
    Now that sounds reasonable.

    "It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed,
    though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope."

  4. #4
    Levels should not mean there is a finished character just from using the store.

    I edited previous post for clarity. no new gamers who didn't play should have any access to such a store feature.

  5. #5
    Post amended.

    I'd be fine with their being some kind of gating mechanic to meet. Sort of how (and this is second hand knowledge mind you) WoW allowed you to get a lvl 50 something or other if you already had a different character at level cap. Conceptually I think such a system is good.

    "It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed,
    though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope."

  6. #6
    I so much agree with the OP's post as I myself face this same problem. I have 11 level 100 alts and only 3 of them did all the content in Helms Deep to get those dreaded trait tree points. After running through over 300 quests with each of those 3 alts i said "enough is enough" and did not bother with the rest of my alts. I eventually lost interest in playing those alts to some degree due to the lack of trait points they had and finally stopped playing them all together due to the massive, endless, moronic grind we have at the moment with this imbue LI system, but thats another story in itself and i do not intent to go into it in this thread.

    If those trait tree points were in the store at that time, i would certainly have considered buying them. I would not buy them now however as i dont really play my alts anymore due to the way the game is and the grind as i stated above. However, if turbine reduced the grind and i decided to start playing my alts again and if the trait tree points were available to buy in the store, then i may be tempted to buy them for the alts that i would start playing again.

    However, I also agree with the point made that players should not be able to buy everything without having to at least work for some things and as such i would not want every Tom, Dick & Harry who simply cannot be bothered to do the content even once to be able to buy them. Perhaps players who have already done those quests with other alts can buy them for the remainder of their alts. At least this way, you will have to do the content at least once or twice before you are allowed to buy the points for your other alts.

    But, as always this is simply my thoughts and i'm sure as always other people will agree or disagree with them but hey, thats life!!!
    MOORS: HUNTER R11, WARG R9
    BE NOT FEARFUL OF DEATH FOR IT WILL LEAD YOU TO AN EVEN GREATER ADVENTURE,
    AS LIFE IT SELF IS A JOURNEY TO DEATH AND ONE WHICH WE MUST ALL TAKE.... LIVE GOOD, FIGHT HARD, DIE WELL.

  7. #7
    And, the item you'd sell in the store is likely all but coded. Just recycle the Moria lvl 58 rep barter books.

    "It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed,
    though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope."

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitewhimsy View Post
    And, the item you'd sell in the store is likely all but coded. Just recycle the Moria lvl 58 rep barter books.
    good point, so the mechanics to do something like this are already there.
    MOORS: HUNTER R11, WARG R9
    BE NOT FEARFUL OF DEATH FOR IT WILL LEAD YOU TO AN EVEN GREATER ADVENTURE,
    AS LIFE IT SELF IS A JOURNEY TO DEATH AND ONE WHICH WE MUST ALL TAKE.... LIVE GOOD, FIGHT HARD, DIE WELL.

  9. #9
    I think this suggestion is more relevant than ever with the new points acquired in old Anorien. No-one wants to grind the slayer deeds here (especially the trolls) multiple times for multiple toons...why not offer this option for alts, Turbine? It's money that creates money...take away some of the disincentive of the grind and people will be more inclined to play, I know I will.
    Last edited by infinitewhimsy; Jan 27 2016 at 06:52 AM.

    "It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed,
    though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope."

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitewhimsy View Post
    Look at this:

    https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Class_Trait_Point

    Everything starting with West Rohan is a tremendous grind for trait points. The need to go to Rohan and clean dishes for hours and to toil through Central Gondor (which is entirely useless otherwise) for trait points is a massive disincentive for alt characters. I have literally been leveling mine via tasks and a 100% XP accel and parking them at lvl 100 with only 62 points, because I do not want to do these nauseating quest hubs again, having already done them on other characters. Turbine, you should sell class trait points in the store. Consider the following...

    - You could use a system that parallels the Promotion Points you sell in the store, players can earn more than the max, but can only use so many. I imagine you can even recycle the code therein, since they both use the tree system.

    - People might be more inclined to buy Blessing of the Valar if they don't need to revisit tedious areas of the game to properly maximize their characters. Why would you skip to 95 just to go back to Rohan and quest for a week as every Rohirrim's hireling maid?

    - Trait Points granted from Questing break the established convention the game has up to level 85. This lack of uniformity is really annoying, how is it reasonable that to max your character you need to track your quest progress via the Wiki, since there's no functionality in the game that indicates that these extremely long quest chains grant points. What if you cancel a quest and can't find it again? How do you even know you should find it? All of this is expectant of a level of familiarity from the player that is unreasonable.

    - Everyone I know speaks of this as a tremendous obstacle to alt characters in the game. I used to have upwards of 5 fully functional maxed characters, so did most of my kin, now nobody manages more than 2. The severity of the LI grind also exacerbates the severity of the trait tree grind, there needs to be relief somewhere.
    I wouldn't mind spending 50-100 TP for a single trait point, but no more than that. Store prices are already too high. Or maybe they could make some daily quests or a quest that would grant 1 token. With that tokens you could trade for 1 trait point.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitewhimsy View Post
    I think this suggestion is more relevant than ever with the new points acquired in old Anorien. No-one wants to grind the slayer deeds here (especially the trolls) multiple times for multiple toons...why not offer this option for alts, Turbine? It's money that creates money...take away some of the disincentive of the grind and people be more inclined to play, I know I will.
    I have not even bothered to do the slayer deeds in Old Anorien with any of my alts. Not even my main has done that deed and I do not intent on doing so. I don't care if I am missing 1 trait tree point because for me to get that one extra point would make the game so boring that it would defeat the object of playing the game. I play the game to have fun and running around like a headless chicken trying to do slayer deeds for trait tree points is NOT my idea of having fun. I already play this game a lot less than I used to due to the way the game has gone and I will play it less and less if they continue along this line. As I said, running around for hours upon hours just killing mobs is not fun in my book and its not something that I would want to do.
    MOORS: HUNTER R11, WARG R9
    BE NOT FEARFUL OF DEATH FOR IT WILL LEAD YOU TO AN EVEN GREATER ADVENTURE,
    AS LIFE IT SELF IS A JOURNEY TO DEATH AND ONE WHICH WE MUST ALL TAKE.... LIVE GOOD, FIGHT HARD, DIE WELL.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    2,054

    Thumbs up

    Rohan (East and West) loses its whole charm after the second character through. It's a major nuisance having to do every single quests in the HD expansion area to get 5 class trait points. (That's equally valid if not more severe for the Osgiliath morale stacking exercises and Old Anórien deeds.) I agree with the OP. LOTRO is (and has been for a long while) semi-pay-to-win, there's no apparent turning back from it; stats are sold, virtues are sold, relics and legacies are sold, promotions are sold, LI enhancements are sold, essence crafting is gated behind a store item... LEVELS are sold. No point not making trait points available for TP.

    I also agree that it would be a sound business decision to gate the equivalent number of points behind the purchase of the related expansion or ques pack or subscription, whichever is relevant.

  13. #13
    Oh yea pls do that...

    If I have to go through Broadacres again, ill commit suicide...

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,904
    Quote Originally Posted by Urwendil View Post
    Rohan (East and West) loses its whole charm after the second character through. It's a major nuisance having to do every single quests in the HD expansion area to get 5 class trait points. (That's equally valid if not more severe for the Osgiliath morale stacking exercises and Old Anórien deeds.) I agree with the OP. LOTRO is (and has been for a long while) semi-pay-to-win, there's no apparent turning back from it; stats are sold, virtues are sold, relics and legacies are sold, promotions are sold, LI enhancements are sold, essence crafting is gated behind a store item... LEVELS are sold. No point not making trait points available for TP.

    I also agree that it would be a sound business decision to gate the equivalent number of points behind the purchase of the related expansion or ques pack or subscription, whichever is relevant.
    All of this I agree with.

    If I sub and have prepurchased/purchased the areas, and done them before at least twice, killing trolls in old arnorien and being forced to decimate the wildlife there to get a single class point from the deed is not 'playing the game' or 'teaching me my class'. It is simply 'busy work'.

    My RK has been stuck in Rohan and I don't play her (so no money on remembrance crystals or the other bling I would spend tp on at cap) because I am suffering ennui to the point of near suicide at the thought of the finsihing Rohan grind, (she's done the epic to get to Gondor) and then the Central Gondor grind and then the Amorien grind to get the trait points I need to actually play the parts of the game I love. The part where my traits actually make a difference to my success. (fellowships, raids and PvP)

    I might consider the BoV on my next character and I can buy all the virtues etc if I choose. I can get my class deeds done by having fun in skirms or buying an accelerator and spamming them, but oh no! not those trait points.

    Gating character development behind linear quests and sheer grind was always a very bad idea. Many of us said so at the time.

    Just dump the idea we should 'earn them' and let us pay if we own the areas or subscribe, ...please?

  15. #15
    Oh yes please!

    I'm currently in Broadacres on my 6th character to do the HD chain. She's levelling fast - out-levelling the quests really. How I wish I could skip some quests because I know the grind that still lies ahead. But I can't because I need those points...

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    21,332
    I agree also. I love the leveling process but Helms Deep can be unbearable. I would love to be able to just buy the trait points for that zone.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  17. #17
    I'm not a fan of the store because it is over prized on items like these. I rather have them limit the # of trait points that can be used like they do with virtues. I probably with enough time in between can do the questing again but the problem for me are the trait points gated behind BBs, RTs and warbands . Never mind that I can't see myself doing all the slayer deeds on all my toons even if it is just Old Anorien.

  18. #18
    Well, 10 Promo Points are 395 TP. I think I'd pay that with zero hesitation for...2 trait points? Honestly I'd pay more (but less happily) just to avoid the gruesomeness described in this thread.

    "It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed,
    though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope."

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    2,604
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitewhimsy View Post
    ... there needs to be relief somewhere.
    I agree that something needs to give. I'm not sure that offering to pay them for their biggest blunders is the way to go.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,519
    Yep would happily pay 1000 TP for 5 trait points. I mean I hate spending TP, but the grind is incomprehensible. I'd certainly be more willing to play my alts if it was doable without insane grind.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    Yep would happily pay 1000 TP for 5 trait points. I mean I hate spending TP, but the grind is incomprehensible. I'd certainly be more willing to play my alts if it was doable without insane grind.
    Another willing victim of the F2P model...

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jagannath View Post
    Another willing victim of the F2P model...
    No, a player that is simply lazy or doesnt want to have to pay for the xpacs and a sub. This dude was complaining about the virtue grind in another thread....


    This game does NOT need to be easier for some things. That is the reality of it.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    2,519
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaldor View Post
    No, a player that is simply lazy or doesnt want to have to pay for the xpacs and a sub.


    This game does NOT need to be easier for some things. That is the reality of it.
    Lazy? No. I don't even pay for the game, I got lifetime many many years ago and I'm so glad to be able to say that, although unfortunately now I can't say I've cancelled my VIP in every other thread, which would've been a handy card to play. And for the record I've pre-ordered every expansion since the game first went live. I've no idea how me being willing to pay for things with TP is me being too cheap to want to pay VIP? lol. If I'm gonna spend 1k TP I'm PROBABLY the sort of person who's not that bothered about the VIP cost, despite the fact that it's literal sole use nowadays is to get into freepside moors.

    The game isn't HARD, thats the whole goddamn point, it's just a GRIND. They are not one and the same. Unless by hard you mean it's hard not to cut your own wrists when you stare at the sheer cliff face that is virtues, empowerment scrolls, essences and trait points!

    NONE OF IT IS HARD. NONE OF IT IS FUN. THIS IS A GAME. It's meant to be FUN, not "ohhh goddd I could pvp with my friends or run that 12man, or I could go run around the Lone-lands waiting 30 minutes for bog-lurker respawns for 9 more agility on 1 rank of Determination." Do you not understand that you're one of a select few people who play MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAMES to be alone and slaughter mobs for virtue grinding??

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaldor View Post
    No, a player that is simply lazy or doesnt want to have to pay for the xpacs and a sub. This dude was complaining about the virtue grind in another thread....


    This game does NOT need to be easier for some things. That is the reality of it.
    Only a fool conflates grind with difficulty.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jagannath View Post
    I agree that something needs to give. I'm not sure that offering to pay them for their biggest blunders is the way to go.
    While I'm sure the current means of acquiring trait points is in part due to Turbine's laziness, it's also to incentivize people buying quest packs. Adding a store option for the points doesn't take this away (Turbine still get revenue) and if anything I suspect i twill be most used by people who already own the xpacs and don't want to go through the hell that is Rohan for the umpteenth time, this would be a brand new market for Turbine...and it's clear there's demand for it.

    "It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed,
    though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope."

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    Lazy? No. I don't even pay for the game, I got lifetime many many years ago and I'm so glad to be able to say that, although unfortunately now I can't say I've cancelled my VIP in every other thread, which would've been a handy card to play. And for the record I've pre-ordered every expansion since the game first went live. I've no idea how me being willing to pay for things with TP is me being too cheap to want to pay VIP? lol. If I'm gonna spend 1k TP I'm PROBABLY the sort of person who's not that bothered about the VIP cost, despite the fact that it's literal sole use nowadays is to get into freepside moors.

    The game isn't HARD, thats the whole goddamn point, it's just a GRIND. They are not one and the same. Unless by hard you mean it's hard not to cut your own wrists when you stare at the sheer cliff face that is virtues, empowerment scrolls, essences and trait points!

    NONE OF IT IS HARD. NONE OF IT IS FUN. THIS IS A GAME. It's meant to be FUN, not "ohhh goddd I could pvp with my friends or run that 12man, or I could go run around the Lone-lands waiting 30 minutes for bog-lurker respawns for 9 more agility on 1 rank of Determination." Do you not understand that you're one of a select few people who play MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAMES to be alone and slaughter mobs for virtue grinding??
    Yeah, lifetime, sure, with a forum join data of 2011 and being 22 years old. If memory serves, that would have meant with a release date in 2007 you would have have to have bought your lifetime at the ripe old age of 12 or 13, maybe 14. Or maybe you bought someones account? Unlikely, because forum join dates are an indicator of account age. You couldnt buy lifetime in 2011 IIRC. See, mine says 2007, and thats correct, I started about 6 months after release. Im not on a lifetime, which I look back and wish I had purchased when I had the chance.

    Grind = MMO. Thats how they keep you around. There is always a grind at some level. In DAOC for me it was RvR. In UO for me it was PvP. In Lotro it sounds like PvP is your grind, so I get that.

    And believe it or not, any serious player in this game does have their Virtues and Trait points done. Not doing so is pointless.

 

 
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