We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 12 of 18 FirstFirst ... 2 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 ... LastLast
Results 276 to 300 of 447
  1. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by swengle View Post
    Periodically, people post links to third-party data regarding LOTRO logins. These charts show a downward trend.

    Over the years I've wondered what it would take for some of the most ardent defenders of the game to realize that it was headed in the wrong direction.

    * We've seen the login charts. People argue that those are not reliable and that only Turbine has the real data.

    * The activity on the AH of even theoretically active servers like Landroval is a shadow of its former self. Well, people say, the AH isn't a good reflection because the best items are gotten via other ways these days.

    * GLFF numbers are way off from where they were just a few years ago and are a fraction of what they were during the most active years of the game. Well, supporters say, not everyone is in GLFF, especially now that the game has a solo focus.

    * Bugs are not getting fixed for years and the new content is smaller and more bug-filled than ever. Well, that doesn't indicate anything regarding population. The game could be raking in money and they're just not funneling it back into development.

    * Turbine issues a letter saying that there is no expansion in the works and that 2014 will focus on bug fixes and re-balancing. Some people say that this is actually a good sign that the team is focusing on realistic achievement and is adding a polish to the game that will attract new players.

    * Now there are developer layoffs. Some people don't believe the developers have actually been laid off despite twitter posts from the devs themselves. Those who do believe don't think it will have an impact on LOTRO or think it's just a natural part of the business cycle and no reflection on how well LOTRO is doing.

    You can take each piece of data apart and argue why they don't mean anything but at some point the pieces of evidence are so numerous and there is absolutely no evidence to prove the opposite. I challenge anyone to provide one piece of evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that indicates that the game is thriving or growing.

    If you still don't believe that the game is struggling, try leveling a character on Landroval. Having just done it, I will promise you that you will level through entire zones without seeing another player.

    Is this all anecdotal? Yes. But it is still evidence. And it all points in the exact same direction.
    Are people skirmishing more to level up? I think so.

    But you're right that quests are being overlooked and the content itself is being ignored for the endgame. In the end, this game is about a series of books. The only real "fun" in it is to chase chickens in the Shire, swim in Lake Evendim, be impressed by the sheer size of the Spiders in Limlight Gorge, and pretend you're Bilbo wielding Sting underneath. If you're not getting caught up in the story, if it's not "cool that you're riding a warhorse around Rohan, not hilarious the first time you get caught offguard and killed by a Warband, or if it doesn't give you a feeling of pride to complete the Epic story and save the various peoples of Middle Earth, then this isn't for you. Raiding has always been second to the story here.

    It was well known to be a "hard core raiding" game because it was so hard to level and so hard to complete so many raids. Many other games have not offered so much challenge as this. For instance, kiting is unnecessary and pointless in many games. There's a great deal of strategy around positioning, conditions, kiting, traits, etc... here that is missing in other games, so it is a favorite with raiders. But there's always been this other group that thought the raids were too hard and didn't do them. Or didn't participate in the harder ones. If you were a light armor wearer during the Rohan expansion, you might remember wishing people would run the instances you need. Even the raiders didn't want to PUG in the "hard" instances. Now you can get your drops in any instance and I think that's good.

    There are comments in other forums where people say that they considered playing this game, but when they died before they could complete simple intro quests (died on the mobs in starter zones), they gave up thinking the game needed more polish. I leveled a Minstrel during the harder-mode times (quests, kills, deeds, this was before skirmish was popular) and it was extremely tough and completely undoable without heavy dependence on very high Virtues. She still has the highest virtues of any of my toons. I remember being angry that I was given a "nerfed" toon and forced to "un-nerf" it myself, especially since Confidence deeds always made you go run through mobs of Elites.

    These are the reasons why I think the changes they're making are ones to help the game be a better game and not an attempt to close it down. I don't like them all. I totally hate the changes for the Hunter, so much so that I can't bring myself to complain, I'm afraid I'll rant. Then everyone can tell me how stupid and fail I am, which is the usual reply to anyone who rants regardless of the reason.

    I'm willing to take the collateral damage of the destruction of one of my favorite toons so that the other toons can have a better life. I think those numbers that show higher logins around expacs and a drop off just show the "fly by night" players. The regular playerbase is here and was always here.

  2. #277
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,694
    Quote Originally Posted by LethalLethality View Post
    No, it's not, because we don't know how big the total number is.
    OK. It's quite simple. It does not matter what the actual percentage the 1049 is of the overall total. What matters is that the number is large enough to be a sample that can be used in assessing an overall trend.

    That's the point. If we knew that actual number then we would not even be bothering to discuss samples as we would be using the actual player numbers. As that figure is unknown then we need to use what is available.

    You can ignore it and all the other data but don't expect me and many others who understand statistics to discount it.

    That's all I'm going to say on the subject. We now know what's happening with the game.

  3. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by gripply View Post
    There are comments in other forums where people say that they considered playing this game, but when they died before they could complete simple intro quests (died on the mobs in starter zones), they gave up thinking the game needed more polish.
    I realize this is going to seem rude, but how incompetent must one be to get killed by the MoB's in the starter zones of LotRO?
    If that's what happened, I recommend switching to "Candyland" or "Chutes and ladders". I am far from a great player but I never had a character die there.
    Estellost, loving husband of the wonderful Shinarra

  4. #279
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,694
    Quote Originally Posted by Dworin View Post
    I realize this is going to seem rude, but how incompetent must one be to get killed by the MoB's in the starter zones of LotRO?
    If that's what happened, I recommend switching to "Candyland" or "Chutes and ladders". I am far from a great player but I never had a character die there.
    Back in May 07 when I first played I could not get my first character a hunter through the old archet burns instance. That angmarim signature mob was a pain to kill. Changed to a guardian and got through just fine.

  5. #280
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,573
    Quote Originally Posted by LethalLethality View Post
    Pando, cuz I can just remove it immediately afterwards. I learned my lesson when I downloaded LotRO though Steam, only to have to redownload it a few days later because they changed their content distribution system to a new format.

    Steam is a piece of ####. It was decent at one point, but it's nothing but bloatware now, worse than anything Pando can do.

    Also, you don't have to use Steam to launch it, so even if you did use Steam to download it, if I'm not launching through Steam, it's not counting it as a a Steam login usage.
    http://www.pcworld.com/article/20681...g-weekend.html

    Pretty sure they probably broke that record when they gave Left for Dead 2 to people for free around Christmas. I happen to really like steam and install it on every computer I have. If you've never paid attention to a steam sale or benefited from not losing access to your games due to a new generation of hardware then maybe you don't really understand the benefits of steam. Now if you just traveled to this time period from 2005 then I'd agree with you...not so much any more.

  6. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Dworin View Post
    I realize this is going to seem rude, but how incompetent must one be to get killed by the MoB's in the starter zones of LotRO?
    If that's what happened, I recommend switching to "Candyland" or "Chutes and ladders". I am far from a great player but I never had a character die there.
    Typical answer by someone who wasn't there and didn't experience it. Sorry you missed out. But this game has been "made easier" several times, not just in this expansion.

  7. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Sardonyx View Post
    It's already been discussed ad nauseum why this isn't a representative sample.



    You must be playing on a different server.



    "My kin is dead" doesn't really tell you much about the health of the server as a whole.



    Big problem there - I don't use GLFF, none of my friends do either.
    Or YOU are playing on a different server....


    Indeed you may use or not use the glff channel but this is irrelevant since other use it and we can record their numbers.

    Like polls there is an error margin but generally a channel with 250-350 people which in a single day suddenly spikes to 750 after the release of HD, and drops back to its previous numbers after 2-3 weeks indicates a flux of returning players who popped up in order to check new content and lost their interest as it usually happens after a few weeks. Probably a portion of them couldn't stand the noise ratio and left channel not the game, but generally the number cannot fall that much.

    The fact is that this channel once had 3k people and now has less than 300.
    Also I do not see any activity on traditional llf channel which means the 3k people we were talking about do not lurk there but of course I may be wrong because with such content who wants to team up with others....

  8. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes View Post
    Back in May 07 when I first played I could not get my first character a hunter through the old archet burns instance. That angmarim signature mob was a pain to kill. Changed to a guardian and got through just fine.
    I remember this... I remember hunters that started in Ered Luin running away from mobs in the caves (they aggo'd back then) during the Intro and asking people to fellow with them. They weren't just moving back to hit with arrows, they were running. Those mobs would two shot just about any non-tank. We also had to group to do deeds, and people did them on level. Gondamon was hopping with at least 25 toons nearby at all times, if not twice that. I'm not even sure if there were any kins yet. Probably, but we just made stuff for each other, just strangers because they helped out with deeds and you saw them all the time. It was a different game where you feared bears! LOL

  9. #284
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    21,332
    Quote Originally Posted by gripply View Post
    I remember this... I remember hunters that started in Ered Luin running away from mobs in the caves (they aggo'd back then) during the Intro and asking people to fellow with them. They weren't just moving back to hit with arrows, they were running. Those mobs would two shot just about any non-tank. We also had to group to do deeds, and people did them on level. Gondamon was hopping with at least 25 toons nearby at all times, if not twice that. I'm not even sure if there were any kins yet. Probably, but we just made stuff for each other, just strangers because they helped out with deeds and you saw them all the time. It was a different game where you feared bears! LOL

    that was like that named Spider in someone's basement in Archet that used to kill me in 2007. I had to get help for that one.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  10. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by byron7 View Post
    Indeed you may use or not use the glff channel but this is irrelevant since other use it and we can record their numbers.
    Recording a meaningless number is ... meaningless.

    Congrats, you still haven't understood why you can't draw general conclusions from a self-selected population.

  11. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by gripply View Post
    Typical answer by someone who wasn't there and didn't experience it. Sorry you missed out. But this game has been "made easier" several times, not just in this expansion.
    Incorrectamondo. I never lost to him, even on my main, Estellost (hunter)
    Estellost, loving husband of the wonderful Shinarra

  12. #287
    Clearly the game is not in a good financial state right now considering the amount of developers that have confirmed being laid off. Even ZombieColumbus I'm really going to miss his Columbus day posts.
    The thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty forever beyond its reach.” - J.R.R. Tolkien

  13. #288
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,573
    Quote Originally Posted by LethalLethality View Post
    No, it's not, because we don't know how big the total number is. The only way to get a relatively general idea is to compare total logins of individual players, along with the total population of the game by accounts. Neither of which we have. I've seen a list showing how many characters are in each server, but that does not differentiate between accounts, so for all we know, 50% of those are alts, assuming everyone has made two characters on the server they play since that's what you get for free.

    If I was to say a movie theater screened a movie in my town and 100 people were there to see it, would you say that was representative of how popular that movie was to the local population? You couldn't with any degree of certainty because my town could have 150 people in it or 1500. If there were only 150 people in it, 80% of the town saw it. If it was 1500, only 10% saw it.

    You can't just take a number and say that's representative without any other corroborative information to back it up. And assumptive information is not corroborative.

    Edit: And no, you don't know you're right. You assume you're right based on the limited and fractured information we have.
    Samples are used in statistics. Working with populations is difficult in many situations.

    Your situation is a little rough but I'll try and step you through it. It has been a few years since I took a stats class but I'll try my best.

    100 people saw the movie (little n)

    n is a subset of big N the total population of people that saw the movie
    or
    n is a subset of big N the total population of the people in the town - doesn't matter if N is 150 or 1500 or 15000 - the smaller % that n is to N might affect confidence.
    or
    n is a subset of big N the total population of the world
    or
    n is all the people in that town that saw the moview so n is actually N.

    You really need to nail down what n and N are. We don't need to know the values of N but knowing what our population is, is important. Your example N is changing so your calculation changes. Lets say we didn't know N. We could use the 100 poeple that saw the movie to estimate what a larger population might think about the movie. So 40/100 people liked the movie. So based on our sample we estimate that 40% of the population will like the movie. It doesn't matter if the population is the town or county or country. Lets imagine your town has a population of 150 people and they are a representative sample of N. 100 of 150 people saw the movie. We could say we estimate 66.66% of N will likely see the movie. So you choose another town of 1500. Based on our stats from the first test we would expect 1000 people to see the movie. If only 100 people see the movie then may be our first test was incorrect and not representative at all. Basically I think your logic is flawed.

    Great, now back to steam: http://steamcharts.com/app/212500

    Users that play lotro are N (population), which we don't know.
    Users that play lotro on steam are n (sample), which we do know.

    Sampling is concerned with the selection of a subset of individuals from within a statistical population to estimate characteristics of the whole population. So we're going to use steam population (n) to estimate similar characteristics of the whole population of LOTRO (N).

    So, according to the steam data the past 30 days show a decrease of almost 15%. We could estimate that the population of people playing LOTRO over the same time period has decreased 15%.

    A real statistical analysis would probably include confidence level and a lot more calculations to give you a range around that value that contained the true value. I consider the steam population to be a representative sample of the total lotro population. So when I see an increase of 46% around expansion release I believe there is an influx of players playing the game. When the population trends down on the steam data I believe that the population is trending that way also. If you don't believe in the theory of statistics then I can't do much else for you.

  14. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Sardonyx View Post
    Funny. I challenge you to find any post where I say that LOTRO is:

    a) amazing
    b) doing great
    c) not going to lay anyone off

    I'll wait.

    Once you give up, you might want to consider responding to what people are saying, rather then what you think they're saying.

    So what are you trying to argue? if its on the proper use of statistics, I suggest that there are more appropriate forums. If its that the population of LOTRO is not decreasing, I don't see anything to support that conjecture.

  15. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by josh13333 View Post
    Clearly the game is not in a good financial state right now considering the amount of developers that have confirmed being laid off. Even ZombieColumbus I'm really going to miss his Columbus day posts.
    Not "clearly" as has been stated before. People can be laid off because their area of expertise isn't needed, or that there's too many people currently there in comparison to what future plans are, among other reasons. If you're not making an expansion, for example, you don't need the workforce that goes into making one. If Raids and Instances aren't planned for 2014, they don't need the devs responsible for making them.
    Tolella Hlothran ~ Minstrel ~ 115
    Crickhollow
    Officer ~ Phoenix Rising

  16. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by LethalLethality View Post
    Not "clearly" as has been stated before. People can be laid off because their area of expertise isn't needed, or that there's too many people currently there in comparison to what future plans are, among other reasons. If you're not making an expansion, for example, you don't need the workforce that goes into making one. If Raids and Instances aren't planned for 2014, they don't need the devs responsible for making them.
    Do you honestly and truly believe that everything is well with LotRO right now? There is a mountain of circumstantial evidence that states otherwise, but I guess everybody is free to ignore these signs if they wish.

  17. #292
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,573
    Quote Originally Posted by LethalLethality View Post
    Not "clearly" as has been stated before. People can be laid off because their area of expertise isn't needed, or that there's too many people currently there in comparison to what future plans are, among other reasons. If you're not making an expansion, for example, you don't need the workforce that goes into making one. If Raids and Instances aren't planned for 2014, they don't need the devs responsible for making them.

    Why would you stop making expansions or raid content?

    B/c they don't make enough money.

    How would they not make enough money?

    B/c they sold poorly

    Why would they sell poorly?

    B/c less people are playing the game

    The producers letter and plans for 2014 are made to maximize profit. That is one thing that is clear. You can spin the layoffs however you want, to me it would seem that they are banking on people sticking with the game with less development for awhile. Where it leads, I don't know - but it doesn't look good.

  18. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by kidnova78 View Post
    Do you honestly and truly believe that everything is well with LotRO right now? There is a mountain of circumstantial evidence that states otherwise, but I guess everybody is free to ignore these signs if they wish.
    I don't believe everything is peachy, but I don't believe they're in serious trouble either.
    Tolella Hlothran ~ Minstrel ~ 115
    Crickhollow
    Officer ~ Phoenix Rising

  19. #294
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    9,517
    Quote Originally Posted by josh13333 View Post
    Clearly the game is not in a good financial state right now considering the amount of developers that have confirmed being laid off. Even ZombieColumbus I'm really going to miss his Columbus day posts.
    Just want to kill this outright. ZC was not impacted by the recent layoffs. He transitioned to the IC team more than a year ago and is still there. Same holds true for Orion for those who are inclined to believe those rumors as well.

    Yet another good example of how most of the rumors you hear couldn't be more wrong or less worth your time.

  20. #295
    Atleast you guys here on the LOTRO forums are getting some kind of interaction/response from Turbine. Asheron's Call has been 100% in the dark the whole time. Not a single post from a Turbine staff member, heck it doesn't even look like anyone is logging in to delete/lock threads...

  21. #296
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    7,651
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Just want to kill this outright. ZC was not impacted by the recent layoffs. He transitioned to the IC team more than a year ago and is still there. Same holds true for Orion for those who are inclined to believe those rumors as well.

    Yet another good example of how most of the rumors you hear couldn't be more wrong or less worth your time.
    +ZC's twitter post was vague, was similiar in tone to +Amlugs and no responses were received when he was reached out to. The worst was feared. Yet another example of how clear communication in the midst of tragedy can help instead of harm.

    Thank you for this brief glimpse at some good news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shedao-Shai View Post
    Atleast you guys here on the LOTRO forums are getting some kind of interaction/response from Turbine. Asheron's Call has been 100% in the dark the whole time. Not a single post from a Turbine staff member, heck it doesn't even look like anyone is logging in to delete/lock threads...
    DDO got a statement saying that the roadmap is still on track, I hope AC gets some kind of word soon.
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
    Delego-L85 Hunter ; Stodden-L51-Captain ; Edhul-L61-Loremaster
    Deglorion - SoA XP Disabler

  22. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Just want to kill this outright. ZC was not impacted by the recent layoffs. He transitioned to the IC team more than a year ago and is still there. Same holds true for Orion for those who are inclined to believe those rumors as well.

    Yet another good example of how most of the rumors you hear couldn't be more wrong or less worth your time.
    This is great news. I've updated my article at LOTRO Players, and apologize for the mistake.
    Braxwolf of Windfola
    Malledhrim Defenders
    [img]http://lotroplayers.mymiddleearth.com/files/2013/12/Braxwolf-Logo-thumbnail.jpg[/img]

  23. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Shedao-Shai View Post
    Atleast you guys here on the LOTRO forums are getting some kind of interaction/response from Turbine. Asheron's Call has been 100% in the dark the whole time. Not a single post from a Turbine staff member, heck it doesn't even look like anyone is logging in to delete/lock threads...
    As I was over here typing this Severlin returned. Ignore me!

  24. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Shedao-Shai View Post
    Atleast you guys here on the LOTRO forums are getting some kind of interaction/response from Turbine. Asheron's Call has been 100% in the dark the whole time. Not a single post from a Turbine staff member, heck it doesn't even look like anyone is logging in to delete/lock threads...
    wait what? I thought that game died out years ago, I used to play and enjoy it.
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

    Voltaire

  25. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferathyr View Post
    wait what? I thought that game died out years ago, I used to play and enjoy it.
    AC is still around. Its not anything at all like the game it was in the glory days but I still really enjoy it. If you ever have the itch to give it a try feel free to look me up. I play on the Harvestgain server.

 

 
Page 12 of 18 FirstFirst ... 2 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload