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  1. #1

    Negative community.

    It seems like every idea whether its good or bad gets shot down(with a few exceptions, like the kinship revamp) and threads often turn into arguments. So many threads I see on here have the potential to be very good, while some..eh. But instead of picking apart someones idea, why not add onto it? why not support it and give *constructive* criticism and maybe we, as a player base, can impact the game in a positive way.

    People in game or on the forums seem to just shoot down every idea, we'd all be a lot happier with a little more support/constructive criticism and let our ideas actually go somewhere, instead of getting shot down 10 minutes after they're created for a minor flaw.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d0000002c9618/signature.png]Farimur[/charsig]

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by OruiFarimur View Post
    It seems like every idea whether its good or bad gets shot down(with a few exceptions, like the kinship revamp) and threads often turn into arguments. So many threads I see on here have the potential to be very good, while some..eh. But instead of picking apart someones idea, why not add onto it? why not support it and give *constructive* criticism and maybe we, as a player base, can impact the game in a positive way.

    People in game or on the forums seem to just shoot down every idea, we'd all be a lot happier with a little more support/constructive criticism and let our ideas actually go somewhere, instead of getting shot down 10 minutes after they're created for a minor flaw.
    How about you quote some examples?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kongas View Post
    How about you quote some examples?

    So I have to go gather proof? browse thru threads and click a random one, most likely itll have a lot of negativity on it.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d0000002c9618/signature.png]Farimur[/charsig]

  4. #4
    LOTRO is an MMO.

    As such it will always have a mixed bag of comments on the forums dedicated to discussion of the game. People are much more likely to take the time to post when they are unhappy or dissatisfied with the game. For many people that's a coping mechanism for not giving the game up instead. It's a pressure valve on a lingering or worsening discontent.

    LOTRO has evolved in certain directions that are likely to make some people happy and others very unhappy. That aggravates the situation described above, although in this case I suspect most of the people who would be complaining have left already and many of those who are on the verge of complaining will choose to leave instead.

    It's an MMO. It's just a game and it's not forever.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by OruiFarimur View Post
    So I have to go gather proof?
    Generally, yes, somebody making a claim is asked to support it.

    Regarding the claim you raised, not every idea is a "good" idea to all those that see it; people have different wants and different points-of-view. They're just as free to have and state those opinions as anybody, and that feedback is every bit as valuable.

    There's no need to engage in personal attacks, deliberate trolling, and other CoC violations (and you should report them when you see them), but just because somebody has an idea that sounds great to them doesn't mean only those who agree should respond. I think the meaning of "constructive criticism" has gotten mangled a bit....realistic, constructive criticism doesn't always start with "thats a good idea, but..."; we're not kindergartners.
    The forums are not an accurate representation of the thoughts and feelings of the whole player base. Those who like a particular feature are in the game enjoying that feature. Those who don't like it log out to mention it on the forums. It is a relevant but biased source of feedback, and any claims of community desire should take this fact into account.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Ailedra View Post
    Generally, yes, somebody making a claim is asked to support it.

    Regarding the claim you raised, not every idea is a "good" idea to all those that see it; people have different wants and different points-of-view. They're just as free to have and state those opinions as anybody, and that feedback is every bit as valuable.

    There's no need to engage in personal attacks, deliberate trolling, and other CoC violations (and you should report them when you see them), but just because somebody has an idea that sounds great to them doesn't mean only those who agree should respond. I think the meaning of "constructive criticism" has gotten mangled a bit....realistic, constructive criticism doesn't always start with "thats a good idea, but..."; we're not kindergartners.
    I totally agree, I just feel like this game has a very pessimistic viewpoint on things, I've seen people say stuff like "turbine probably wont use it so why bother?" and it's upsetting.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d0000002c9618/signature.png]Farimur[/charsig]

  7. #7
    Oh no we are not! how dare you call us negative! how.... negative of you.

    (joke - you are of course correct)
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by OruiFarimur View Post
    It seems like every idea whether its good or bad gets shot down(with a few exceptions, like the kinship revamp) and threads often turn into arguments. So many threads I see on here have the potential to be very good, while some..eh. But instead of picking apart someones idea, why not add onto it? why not support it and give *constructive* criticism and maybe we, as a player base, can impact the game in a positive way.

    People in game or on the forums seem to just shoot down every idea, we'd all be a lot happier with a little more support/constructive criticism and let our ideas actually go somewhere, instead of getting shot down 10 minutes after they're created for a minor flaw.
    Welcome to mmo forums. One thing to understand, go to any game, no matter what title, and you will see the same type of problems. Hell, go to any website that has forums or posted comments. It seems to be the nature of the internet these days. Most people want to believe they are correct, and no one else is. And it seems the soul of courtesy in today's culture is just gone. Add those together and you get the state of things online. There are a lot of folks that try and be positive, but when something we love comes under attack we tend to start swinging. I know I am guilty of that. LOTRO has a special problem in that this game has gone thru many incarnations, and as attracted a diverse group of players, in early SoA, raiding was huge, PVP was just starting, but the game was mostly played by loremonkeys like me, that came here BECAUSE it was Lord of the Rings. Later folks came here expecting just another fantasy game, still others came because it is a very casual game. With so many factions, no idea is favoured by all. We all have our priorities, and we think that they are the overarching feature of the game that if isn't implemented NOW, the game will come to a crashing halt. I for one tend to just let it roll off my back, and try to get folks to be a little more understanding of the complexity of running and coding this game. Usually falling on deaf ears

  9. #9
    To sum it up in two words...Lore & Turbine

    There are many good ideas floating around and many face palming ones but Middle Earth has a set Lore and whenever something comes up that might conflict with the lore....its time to barricade the door and hide under the bed

    Many suggestion threads have one of two patterns
    I have a great idea....
    If its against the lore we will now proceed with 6 pages of appendixes, quotes from the books & Tolkiens writings (without toilet break) of why it is against the lore and it cant be considered because it spoils things like immersion etc etc
    If it isn't against the lore someone will usually turn grammar police and carry on about commas not being inserted or that a capital letter wasnt used or someone indeed finds that in fact it is against the lore and then we get....6 pages of appendixes, quotes from the books & Tolkiens writings (without toilet break) of why it is against the lore and it cant be considered because it spoils things like immersion etc etc

    OR

    I have a great Idea....
    If the idea is technically game changing we then get 6 pages of how Turbine are lazy capitalistic money grubbers, who don't know an Amiga from a Xerox and they will lose the license anyways and we are all Doomed and its boring and im off to Rift anyways, oh and the all popular "Use Search you *insert insult of choice here*" and then spirals into a troll/flame war....

    Seriously though alot of us (i'll avoid the "We"...thats another can of worms, dont go there) aren't negative...Overprotective and a bit jaded..but not negative
    Last edited by Harbut; Aug 07 2013 at 04:26 PM.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kongas View Post
    How about you quote some examples?
    Lol good one.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by OruiFarimur View Post
    So I have to go gather proof? browse thru threads and click a random one, most likely itll have a lot of negativity on it.
    So that will be a 'no' then.

    Okay.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by OruiFarimur View Post
    why not support it and give *constructive* criticism
    You seemed to be very confused as to what both "constructive" and "criticism" mean (as well as "discussion" and "forum"). And possibly "debate," "consensus" and "infantilism."

    But in any case I very much doubt that the amount of attention given by Turbine (and/or the player council) to any given suggestion is dictated by the comments that follow. They're all old enough to make their own minds about whether a suggestion is opportune/feasible/etc.
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  13. #13
    Of the five MMOs I play or have played and participated in the forums thereof, this has by far the most civilized and well spoken community, things can get rather heated here at times but I have never seen a thread plumb the depths negativity and insults I have witnessed on the forums of WoW, SWToR or STO.

    It is all a matter of perspective. And constructive criticism can be quite harsh at times, especially when an idea is poorly conceived or not well thought through.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by OruiFarimur View Post
    instead of getting shot down 10 minutes after they're created for a minor flaw.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kongas View Post
    How about you quote some examples?

    He disagrees and yet still proves the op's point.......awesome.

  15. #15
    I agree with you OP. Nor do I feel you need to provide any kind of example to drove your statement.

    It doesn't take much of reading the forums to understand that a lot of posts are negative.

    I was just reading a post the other day titled "Why I love this game", and it was a great post that I believed true to me also. But eventually the post received a comment that stated "yes we know you love this game and you say so every week, you don't have to keep telling us"

    Why?

    Now I'm not incorporating everyone in this category nor am implying that everyone is negative, but ya gotta admit, for someone to feel the community can be negative you can see why when even a positive comment gets shut down.

    Unfortunately in most situations we only say something if we are unhappy or want something fixing or changed. If we are happy we say nothing, what is there to say? Unless you want to take the time to say it

    But it is nice to read why people like the game, and what the positives are about a situation.

    Even now as I write this I think about making sure i dont say something that receives a negative response. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it would nice sometimes if someone though what your Mom tells you;

    "If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything"
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/082020000000b0428/01008/signature.png]Bragolas[/charsig]

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon-son-of-Brian View Post

    Even now as I write this I think about making sure i dont say something that receives a negative response. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it would nice sometimes if someone though what your Mom tells you;

    "If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything"
    Does your Mom work for Turbine?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kongas View Post
    Does your Mom work for Turbine?
    She got fired for being too negative!!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/082020000000b0428/01008/signature.png]Bragolas[/charsig]

  18. #18
    Try the League of Legends game. You'll be cured in no time, see you in 3- 7 days.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by OruiFarimur View Post
    It seems like every idea whether its good or bad gets shot down(with a few exceptions, like the kinship revamp) and threads often turn into arguments. So many threads I see on here have the potential to be very good, while some..eh. But instead of picking apart someones idea, why not add onto it? why not support it and give *constructive* criticism and maybe we, as a player base, can impact the game in a positive way.

    People in game or on the forums seem to just shoot down every idea, we'd all be a lot happier with a little more support/constructive criticism and let our ideas actually go somewhere, instead of getting shot down 10 minutes after they're created for a minor flaw.
    Suggestions are subject to Sturgeon's Law.

    Of the suggestions that survive that filter, many have not be thought through to find ramifications and down sides. Since many people are very attached to their own ideas, constructive posts point out where the the flaws, or what the risks of an idea are all to frequently provoke a defensive action from the OP of the thread. Arguments tend to ensue.

    See some of the posts above for examples of that last point.

  20. #20
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    IMO I think this community is actually quite positive/mature.

    I can't comment how this community racks up against other MMO communities, but at least in most other online games (FPS, MOBA, RTS, etc.) other players aren't afraid of being negatively vocal towards other players, and usually go as far as obnoxious name-calling and labeling new players as useless "noobs."

  21. #21
    So much irony.

    A thread to complain about the amount of complaining which in turn gets a lot of complaints.

    Here's a tip for you Orui; avoid these forums. I always enjoy myself while playing the game, so I play it often. Then I'd like some more info, visit these forums and *pfew* there goes my appetite. So I cancel sub because sooo much of the complaints actually hold merit. Few weeks later I get bored, resub, enjoy myself, visit forums, cancel sub, ... rinse and repeat.
    I've learnt that every MMO has it's downside. LotRO, while it has a few, still has the least of em, so I try to put the negative into perspective. I fail often, but I do try In the end, with the exception of a precious few, we're all here with one thing in common; our love for the game.

  22. #22


    Believe it or not, you're not the first person to call out for the so called constructive debates. Far from it. There's multiple threads addressing problems like PVP, End-game content or even general long-term direction of the game, in quite a civil matter, reaching multiple pages, with dozens of creative, good solutions. They do get an occasional diplomatic response from Sapience, but at the end of the day, the result is the same.
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  23. #23
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon-son-of-Brian View Post
    Even now as I write this I think about making sure i dont say something that receives a negative response. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it would nice sometimes if someone though what your Mom tells you;

    "If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything"
    Around here we go with, "It's not what you say, it's how you say it."

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by OruiFarimur View Post
    It seems like every idea whether its good or bad gets shot down
    I disagree. I simply think there are lots of bad-to-not-so-great ideas, and lots of ideas which have essentially zero chance of being done due to technical difficulties or costs. That's not some sort of put-down, it's simply the truth, and my own ideas are often in that category too. 95% of the videos posted on YouTube are junk. That's just the way it is.

    instead of picking apart someones idea, why not add onto it? why not support it and give *constructive* criticism and maybe we, as a player base, can impact the game in a positive way.
    Suggestion forums are about discussion and debate, not cheerleading. If I think someone's idea is good or great, I'll say so. If I think it's salvageable, I may offer some suggestions. If I think it's awful, I'm going to say so, and give detailed reasons why. I have every bit as much interest in trying to keep bad ideas out of the game as I have in trying to advocate for good ones.

    Many/most ideas aren't new, and Turbine has actually commented on quite a few over the years. That's relevant to the discussion too.

    Khafar

  25. #25
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    Eh i go with my moms advise. Everyone's a #### until proven different. Keeps your friend count low but the one's you find you can rely on.

 

 
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