Combat stat changes on Isengard release. Mitigation and Offence.

[Schinderhannes]

(new) Common dmg mitigation cap is at 71%. At least for my guardian after he got the new BG gear which seems to have twisted armor ratings.

[michael92]

(new) Common dmg mitigation cap is at 71%.

You must be a dorf. They get a 1% Physical Mitigation bonus. All +percentage bonuses allow boosts over cap.

[Rhaphael]

Hi, I'm having difficulty finding the correct partial mitigation values.

My 85 Dwarf Minstrel has (without buffs/virtues):
Physical Mitigation Rating: 5775
Tactical Mitigation Rating: 3530
Block Rating: 1643
Parry Rating: 430
Evade Rating: 1248

On my character sheet this translates into:
Physical %: 29.0%
Tactical %: 21.1%
Partial Block Mitigation %: 24.7%
Partial Parry %: 21.3%
Partial Evade %: 23.6%

I found the Phys/Tact Mitigation values correctly using the formula in the first post, but the partial mitigation formulas I used do not give the correct values. Please help.
EDIT: Ok got it now

That leaves me with the question below, can anyone answer that?
Also how do I calculate which mitigation rating I need for a given %?

[moebius92]

Also how do I calculate which mitigation rating I need for a given %?

The basic rating equation is:

P = R / (K * L + R), which is calculates P in terms of R, K, and L.

We can solve the equation for R, which gives us:

R = P * K * L / (1 - P)

So, if you wanted to find out how much rating you'd need to get 10% mitigation, you'd set P = 0.10, and use K = 150, which gives you 0.10 * 150 * L / (0.90) = 16 2/3 * L.

It's a bit more complex, because there are intervals, so what you'd do instead would be:

Figure out which interval the percentage you're looking for is in. Let's say we're trying to get 30% - so that's the second interval. X_0 = 37.5 and Y_0 = 20%, which means that the first 37.5 * L points of rating are used to get you to 20% mitigation, and then are discarded.

What you want to do then is, 30% is 10% over Y_0 for the interval in question. Which basically means you need to get enough rating to get into the beginning of the interval (37.5 * L), and then an additional amount of rating to get you 10% of the way into the middle of the interval. We can use the R = P * K * L / (1 - P) formula to calculate how much additional rating you need to get that 10%. P = 10% and K = 350, so R = 0.10 * 350 / 0.90 * L = 38.89 * L. And then we add the initial 37.5 * L rating needed to get into the interval in the first place, and we end up with 76.39 * L rating gives you 30% mitigation.

[Rhaphael]

Thanks a lot for the help moebius92

I couldn't figure out how to solve the % = Yo + 1 / [1 + K/(R/L - Xo)] formula for R, I guess my math just sucks lol.

Thanks for guiding me through it.

[Alad.]

Thanks a lot for the help moebius92

I couldn't figure out how to solve the % = Yo + 1 / [1 + K/(R/L - Xo)] formula for R, I guess my math just sucks lol.

Thanks for guiding me through it.

Moebius already answered your question. Here's another way to do it:

We wish to find out how much rating will result in a given %.

R/L = Xo + {K / [1/(Y-Yo) - 1]}

where Y is the % you're aiming for.

The tables in my initial post have a column called "Result Range". Look in there for your target %, and use the values of K, Xo and Yo on that row of the table. Plug them all into the formula above and you'll get your R/L. Now depending on your level (L), you can figure out the rating (R) required to get that target %, by multiplying the R/L you found by your level.

For example, you wish to get 50% Offence (extra damage). From the Offence table you see that 50% is on the 3rd row of the table (40%-60%), where K=300, Xo=150 and Yo=0.4. Plug those in:

R/L = 150 + {300 / [1/(0.5-0.4) - 1]}
R/L = 183.333
R = 183.333 * L

(A quick visual verification on the offence graph shows that 50% corresponds indeed to something close to an R/L of 180. Which is a good way to get an approximate answer without going through the calculations.)

If your level is 85, you'll need 183.333 * 85 = 15583 Offence Rating to get 50% offence.
If your level is 50, you'll need 183.333 * 50 = 9167 Offence Rating to get 50% offence.

HTH.

[Maelendil]

Thanks Alad for maintaining this valuable thread. There are some changes coming for crits, and critical defense changed in U9.1. It now reduces the magnitude of critical hits instead of the occurences. The rating to percentage formula is out of my league, can't help you there.

[moebius92]

Two more data points for the outgoing healing %.

32119 is 50.8%
32591 is 51.3%

Transition point at 50% is at 31308.

So, if we assume that k = 1190 for the third interval, we get:

32119 - 31308 = 811, 811 / (1190 * 85 + 811) = 0.8%, exactly as expected
32591 - 31308 = 1283, 1283 / (1190 * 85 + 1283) = 1.3%, exactly as expected

So, assuming there are three intervals, we have:

x_0	y_0	k	range
0	0%	1190 * 1 / 3	0 - 30%
170	30%	1190 * 2 / 3	30% - 50%
368.3	50%	1190 * 3 / 3	50% - ?

If someone gets a tactical mastery past 42548, we can check if the interval actually ends at 60% or not.

[WhimsicalPacifist]

If someone gets a tactical mastery past 42548, we can check if the interval actually ends at 60% or not.

Go out to the Ettenmoors, ninja 4 Outposts and revel in 56k Tactical Mastery?

Highly recommend coordinating it first with your creepside so they get back 2 OP's pretty quickly and you don't get an airstrike called in on you.

[moebius92]

ICPR from fate is (fate * 94 / 55 + 240).

No, I have no idea why 94 / 55, but it seems to be accurate within as long as you round off.

[Giseldah]

Looks like for HD critical hit and BPE percentages got nerved. Maybe because of bufs in traidtrees for those.

Anyway seems like percentages above 20% follow a formula close to this:

0.20 + 1 / [1 + 1080/(R/L - 111.75)]

Couldn't verify for highest ratings.

[Giseldah]

After some data gathering I noticed slight inaccuracies in the results of the former formula.

What i'm using now in my spreadsheet is:

R/L K Xo Yo Result Range

0 - 70 396.667 0 0 0% - 15%
70 - 111.8 794.2 70 0.15 15% - 20%
111.8 - 168.42 1075.8 111.8 0.20 20% - 25%
I raised 793.333 to 794.2 which gives far better result at the 20% point. And some data proofs this correct, but more research is needed.

With this at lvl95:
- the second segment ends at rating 10621, and giving exactly 20%.
- the new segment starts at rating 10622 and ends exactly at 16000 with percentage 25%.
- statwindow will show 25%, because of rounding up from 24.95%, at a rating of 15944.



Lvl95 data points from statwindow and calculated:

4.169 10.0 9.96121
5.014 11.7 11.74311
5.859 13.5 13.45586
10.245 19.5 19.54810
10.313 19.6 19.63014
10.543 19.9 19.90661
10.611 20.0 19.98804
10.953 20.3 20.32380
12.029 21.4 21.35896
12.124 21.4 21.44932
15.312 24.4 24.38854
15.448 24.5 24.51003
15.761 24.8 24.78848
15.761 24.8 24.78848
15.763 24.8 24.79025
15.799 24.8 24.82217
15.809 24.8 24.83103
15.821 24.8 24.84167
15.825 24.8 24.84521
15.829 24.8 24.84876
15.833 24.9 24.85230
15.847 24.9 24.86470
15.859 24.9 24.87532
15.881 24.9 24.89480
15.887 24.9 24.90011
15.909 24.9 24.91957
15.921 24.9 24.93019
15.923 24.9 24.93196
15.935 24.9 24.94257
15.936 24.9 24.94345
15.940 24.9 24.94699
15.944 25.0 24.95052
15.945 25.0 24.95141
15.957 25.0 24.96201
15.969 25.0 24.97262


Some calculated points:

10.619 20.0 19.99761
10.620 20.0 19.99880
10.621 20.0 20.00000
--
10.622 20.0 20.00098
10.623 20.0 20.00196
15.943 24.9 24.94964
15.944 25.0 24.95052
16.000 25.0 25.00000

[ssslippy]

Formula to critical defense is 0 + 1/(1 + 100/(R/L - 0))

Does not seem to have any diminish returns like other stats.

[Giseldah]

Formula to critical defense is 0 + 1/(1 + 100/(R/L - 0))

Does not seem to have any diminish returns like other stats.

Correct.


About base morale/power regenerations:

ICPR:
Like discovered before, base ICPR is 240 for all classes.

NCPR:
My data shows currently for all classes:
lvl 1-2: 75
lvl 3-7: 90
lvl 8-25: 105
lvl 26-95: 120

ICMR:
a diminishing curve, nothing like the other 3 (factor of 15)

NCMR:
factor of 60, depending on class/lvl. lowest seen so far 60, highest 300.

Minstrel (lvl1-21):


My spreadsheet, using a lot of formulas from this topic (thank you!). Wish Lorebook still existed which had nice tables for all classes containing stats base values. Have a lot of empty space in my spreadsheet's tables and some has changed (lvls1-19 especially- morale).

[Giseldah]

Took a little closer look to base ICMR.

Looks like a curve straightening to a line to me. Although I feel I don't have enough measuring points to be completely sure.



I used for this graph: base ICMR = 0.25 * Lvl + 120 - (2110 / (19 + Lvl))

Edit:

Actually closer examination on Bullroarer gave this graph:



First a curve and then from lvl 50 on a straight line like: 69.6 + lvl * 0.6

[ssslippy]

New formula for higher then 450 R/L for Mastery

1+1/(1+300/(J25/G33-375))

I know the formula is correct however I am not positive on the R/L rating

[Giseldah]

New formula for higher then 450 R/L for Mastery

1+1/(1+300/(J25/G33-375))

I know the formula is correct however I am not positive on the R/L rating

Thank you. I'll try to check with my hunter for possible next sections.

I'm using this in my spreadsheet so it's easy to add more sections:

ROUND((MIN(INT((B17/B4)/75),4)*0.2+1/(1+300/(B17/B4-MIN(INT((B17/B4)/75),4)*75)))*100,1)

[Giseldah]

New formula for higher then 450 R/L for Mastery

1+1/(1+300/(J25/G33-375))

I know the formula is correct however I am not positive on the R/L rating

I checked with my hunter.

in-game stats: 47307 phys mastery - 119.8%
R/L = 498

I can't confirm a new segment with this, because the old top segment

0.8+1/(1+300/(R/L-300))

gives that result and a new one would give 129.1%

edit:

another check

48632 phys mastery - 123.8%
R/L = 511.9

this is something new because

0.8+1/(1+300/(R/L-300)) gives 121.4%
1.0+1/(1+300/(R/L-375)) gives 131.3%

another point:
55245 phys mastery - 142.1%
R/L = 581.5
0.8+1/(1+300/(R/L-300)) gives 128.4%
1.0+1/(1+300/(R/L-375)) gives 140.8%

at the moment looks like with R/L > 500 a new segment starts with a much less curved graph, but not completely linear



edit: Found a formula which matches my data for lvl95, 47500 (R/L=500) to 52377. 27 measuring points.

R/L > 500
1.2 + 1/(1+299.95/(R/L-500))

had 2 mismatches when using 300 instead of 299.95

don't know what to think of: 55245 phys mastery - 142.1%

it's possible that another segment start at R/L > 575 like

R/L > 575 (54625 @ lv95)
1.4 + 1/(1+299.95/(R/L-575))

because it gives 142.1%

[Giseldah]

New formula for block rating to % on Br(can be subject to change), need to check evade&parry:

0.2+1/(1+1435.61/(R/L-111.81))

17800@lvl95 = 25%

(currently
16000@lvl95 = 25%)

[Giseldah]

Can confirm new formula for block and evade rating to %

0.2+1/(1+1435.477/(R/L-111.817))

17800@lvl95 = 25%


New formula for parry rating to %:

0.2+1/(1+955.727/(R/L-111.817))

15401.25@lvl95 = 25%
(15402)

Formulas are for above 20% only. Nothing changed below.

I'll make adjustments to these formulas as soon as I measure an incorrect outcome.




Edit: Recap from some more examination.

first segment for all looks still correct
0 - 70 396.667 0 0 0% - 15%

second segment K of 794.2 was too low. changed it to 794.8. I'm assuming segment end of 111.817 for BPE and Critical Hit. Incoming healing might be the same, but didn't do any research.
70 - 111.817 794.8 70 0.15 15% - 20%

third segment Parry
>111.817 955.727 111.817 0.20 20% - 25%
15401.25@lvl95 = 25%

third segment Critical Hit (might be the same for Incoming Healing)
>111.817 1075.477 111.817 0.20 20% - 25%
16000@lvl95 = 25%

third segment Block & Evade
>111.817 1435.477 111.817 0.20 20% - 25%
17800@lvl95 = 25%

[Giseldah]

Current update 13 changes on Bullroarer cuts into block/parry/evade and mastery ratings:

- Might to Block rating factor reduced from 4 to 3

example: block rating of 17800 now (25%), would go down to 13350 (22%). but not all rating comes from might (raw stats from items etc) so this is pure theoretic.

- Might to Parry rating factor for Champions reduced from 6 to 5

- Agility to Evade rating factor reduced from 4 to 3

- For all main mastery ratings factor reduced from 10 to 8. Any secundary stays 5.

example: with this my hunter would go from rating 54436 (139.6%) to 45910 (117.9%)

[Giseldah]

Another new update 13 on BR now.

Mitigation changes:

No mitigation contribution from might, will and vitality anymore.

Mitigations are now only from armour and raw stats from other sources (like items, virtues).

Example: my lvl95 captain would go without gear changes from 70%phys/66.6%tact down to 54.6%phys/29.5%tact mit.

[spelunker]

I was actually going to look for this to double check on some soon to be outdated information, only to find someone has been doing a great job keeping things up to date. Kudos to you, Giseldah.

Its very worrying to see how a modestly complex but easily understandable system, that was designed with the express intent of adapting to the needs of the past and future of the game within a certain set of parameters, all while empowering meaningful choice and customization possibilities; has been steadily eroded and dismantled from U10 to present.

[Giseldah]

I was actually going to look for this to double check on some soon to be outdated information, only to find someone has been doing a great job keeping things up to date. Kudos to you, Giseldah.

thank you

and to keep everyone informed of changes in next round of BR update:

following changes happened to virtue stats:

1) these stats have received a 50% increase: ICMR, ICPR, Physical Mitigation
2) Tactical Mitigation stats have been increased to the same level as physical mitigation stats (meaning roughly 100% increase)
3) +Might/Agility/Will are now rank times factor 3, 6 or 9 (for example max possible is now 162 instead of 54)
4) +Fate/Vitality are now rank times factor 2, 4 or 6 (max possible now 108 instead of 54)

[Rainothon]

Excellent. Virtues represent choices by the player. Making these choices more meaningful is good.