Will there be a conversion path from old to new LIs?

[Gondoron]

I'm optimistically looking forward to a point where the new LIs will truly give us more flexibility than the current system. (This despite my main being a champion!)

I'm trying to understand, however - when this goes live, will our current LIs be automatically migrated to new ones?

If not, and our old LIs will remain, will there nevertheless be some way to deconstruct our LIs into all the various bibs and bobs that are used to level up the new LIs?

[Raninia]

I'm optimistically looking forward to a point where the new LIs will truly give us more flexibility than the current system. (This despite my main being a champion!)

I'm trying to understand, however - when this goes live, will our current LIs be automatically migrated to new ones?

If not, and our old LIs will remain, will there nevertheless be some way to deconstruct our LIs into all the various bibs and bobs that are used to level up the new LIs?

Yes, there'll be a path. We're working out the details right now. I suspect it won't be automatic, but that's not confirmed yet. Our goal is to make it relatively easy for players who've invested in their current LIs to see that progress transfer over to their new LIs. The specifics are being discussed and implemented, but we don't want it to be lossy.

[Fegefeuer]

Yes, there'll be a path. We're working out the details right now. I suspect it won't be automatic, but that's not confirmed yet. Our goal is to make it relatively easy for players who've invested in their current LIs to see that progress transfer over to their new LIs. The specifics are being discussed and implemented, but we don't want it to be lossy.

You suspect it won't be automatic, so what happens if you don't "transform" the old LIs into the new ones? They become useless? Will they change and suddenly they will just be cosmetics? Will they simply dissappear?

[Raninia]

You suspect it won't be automatic, so what happens if you don't "transform" the old LIs into the new ones? They become useless? Will they change and suddenly they will just be cosmetics? Will they simply dissappear?

We haven't totally figured this out yet. Since there'll be a transition period, we're planning to have further discussions about this and let players know in advance before we implement whatever that change is.

[Capt.Hunor]

Yes, there'll be a path. We're working out the details right now. I suspect it won't be automatic, but that's not confirmed yet. Our goal is to make it relatively easy for players who've invested in their current LIs to see that progress transfer over to their new LIs. The specifics are being discussed and implemented, but we don't want it to be lossy.

It will be a conversion of all owned LI's?
I understood that with the new changes the weapon switch will be no more available.
I own with my hunter 3 LI full leveled Bows in which I invested a lot of time and real money purchased items from the shop with ´shop points.

Thanks

[Braer]

We haven't totally figured this out yet. Since there'll be a transition period, we're planning to have further discussions about this and let players know in advance before we implement whatever that change is.

If a current maxed ILI goes through some deconn process you just can't have a cap imposed on Ancient Script in place. Otherwise you'd have to give us some piecemeal UI to strip it down like a breakers yard/recycling centre.

If you don't have a single button process to create and build an equivalent IL and the currency to tier them up, anyone coming back to the game after this grace period of both system working side by side will be uninstalling within 10 minutes.

[YamydeAragon]

Yes, there'll be a path. We're working out the details right now. I suspect it won't be automatic, but that's not confirmed yet. Our goal is to make it relatively easy for players who've invested in their current LIs to see that progress transfer over to their new LIs. The specifics are being discussed and implemented, but we don't want it to be lossy.

Thanks! This is the conversion that i needed to hear about.

We haven't totally figured this out yet. Since there'll be a transition period, we're planning to have further discussions about this and let players know in advance before we implement whatever that change is.

I will make sure to enable the conversion on all my alts that already have a legendary weapon or item.

[gildhur]

Yes, there'll be a path. We're working out the details right now. I suspect it won't be automatic, but that's not confirmed yet. Our goal is to make it relatively easy for players who've invested in their current LIs to see that progress transfer over to their new LIs. The specifics are being discussed and implemented, but we don't want it to be lossy.

It's hilarious to me that big aspects of the system such as this are not even in development yet, but people on Bullroarer are doomsaying that the system is going live 95% as is within just a few weeks. Some people seem to have a fetish for pessimism.

[Raninia]

It will be a conversion of all owned LI's?
I understood that with the new changes the weapon switch will be no more available.
I own with my hunter 3 LI full leveled Bows in which I invested a lot of time and real money purchased items from the shop with ´shop points.

Thanks

1. I suspect it'll be all owned LIs, yes.
2. Yep, weapon swapping is currently disabled on BR, and we have every intention of getting that to live. We may decide to push it to 31 over 30.3 if something comes up, but we're currently planning on having it come in with 30.3.
3. We're aiming to give players a fair conversion for their previous LI work, and I imagine we'll get feedback once we announce our plans for that.

If a current maxed ILI goes through some deconn process you just can't have a cap imposed on Ancient Script in place. Otherwise you'd have to give us some piecemeal UI to strip it down like a breakers yard/recycling centre.

If you don't have a single button process to create and build an equivalent IL and the currency to tier them up, anyone coming back to the game after this grace period of both system working side by side will be uninstalling within 10 minutes.

As long as the process isn't automatic, a cap can be imposed, but we do have to make sure the cap is reasonable, or else it'll defeat the purpose of the conversion. The initial cap is initial, we'll adjust in BR as we get more data and make more decisions.

It's hilarious to me that big aspects of the system such as this are not even in development yet, but people on Bullroarer are doomsaying that the system is going live 95% as is within just a few weeks. Some people seem to have a fetish for pessimism.

To be clear, pieces of this are in development, but not all the details have been decided upon. My hope is most of the decisions will happen next week, we're reasonably far along. It's less "We haven't talked about this at all!" and more "Several folks have slightly different opinions, but we're aligned overall, just need to nail the last few pieces down."

[Polymachos]

I remember how Turbine moved from providing specific repeater tokens for event quests to Mithril Coins, and all my coins got converted to Mithril.

Will this transition work in a similar way? Will the LI enhancements be turned into a kind of currency/tokens/coupons that can be used to upgrade the new versions of the LI's? And will they be applicable to all characters on one server, as the Mithril Coins do? I think, that would be the easiest way to transfer the progress of our inspired weapon without causing major issues, especially if someone has accumulated so many traits/enhancements on one character that it is much more than said character could use on a single new item.


Greetings, Polymachos

[Ragnarsong]

2. Yep, weapon swapping is currently disabled on BR, and we have every intention of getting that to live. We may decide to push it to 31 over 30.3 if something comes up, but we're currently planning on having it come in with 30.3.

In my honest opinion, this is bad move. Really bad. This will force champs to rebuild their weapons just to throw them away with new LI system in upcoming months/weeks.

[Braer]

My main grip with imposed currency caps that are shared are that I can still only log one char in at a time to earn the currency back. Sure each can complete their weeklies and others might choose running toons purely to equip a main raider but I'm equipping several toons equally as I go, a single character player gets to do the stuff I do on each of my toons then a whole lot more to earn the valued currency. I don't expect a cap to reflex every toon I have created but in some way it should increase a margin when a character starts contributing to and spending that currency, like +50% of base for each.

Shared currency caps take no account of the number of chars we run but this one is compounded by how many ILs we have invested much in and likely aim to replace. I guess I'll have to wait on whatever exchange processes for the various Heritage Runes, Star-lit crystals and SoEs and obtaining Ancient Scripts when they become available.

Every currency cap is just another thing to micro manage and get upset about when we ultimately fail at it. And blame you guys for our grief.

[maartena]

3. We're aiming to give players a fair conversion for their previous LI work, and I imagine we'll get feedback once we announce our plans for that.

This is what I am sort of worried about. I have 3 toons at level 130, each with fully loaded LI's at 83 points per legacy..... It took me a LONG time to grind those out. I completely understand that there will be SOME grinding when the level cap changes to 140, just like there was when the level cap went from 120 to 130, but I think it would be fair that if you have a fully maxed out LI at level 130, that you get back enough "converted barter items" from trading in your weapon to spec/create a more or less "maxed out" new LI at level 130, and that the grind would be similar as a normal level cap change.

If I recall correctly, we went from 74 to 83 when we went from 120 to 130, and the first 5 points were "free" so to speak, meaning all you had to do is get item experience through questing or saved up runes. I would imagine something similar like that will be the case when the new LI system becomes active and the level cap changes to 140.

[kudurru1]

This is what I am sort of worried about. I have 3 toons at level 130, each with fully loaded LI's at 83 points per legacy..... It took me a LONG time to grind those out. I completely understand that there will be SOME grinding when the level cap changes to 140, just like there was when the level cap went from 120 to 130, but I think it would be fair that if you have a fully maxed out LI at level 130, that you get back enough "converted barter items" from trading in your weapon to spec/create a more or less "maxed out" new LI at level 130, and that the grind would be similar as a normal level cap change.

If I recall correctly, we went from 74 to 83 when we went from 120 to 130, and the first 5 points were "free" so to speak, meaning all you had to do is get item experience through questing or saved up runes. I would imagine something similar like that will be the case when the new LI system becomes active and the level cap changes to 140.

Indeed. My approach to the current LI system has been to always be ready for the next upgrade and only for the next upgrade.

Would it be fair if the maxed out weapon could be immediately traded for the one that only needs that last bit of work to be fully maxed again?

Don't really see the alternative here after 6 years of continuous upgrades to a single item(s) unless they decide to go for a total reset/everyone starts from zero.

Would I do it again from zero in a slightly more user-friendly system? No way, that ship has sailed sometime around CoS nerf.

[Derquin]

I remember how Turbine moved from providing specific repeater tokens for event quests to Mithril Coins, and all my coins got converted to Mithril.

Will this transition work in a similar way? Will the LI enhancements be turned into a kind of currency/tokens/coupons that can be used to upgrade the new versions of the LI's? And will they be applicable to all characters on one server, as the Mithril Coins do? I think, that would be the easiest way to transfer the progress of our inspired weapon without causing major issues, especially if someone has accumulated so many traits/enhancements on one character that it is much more than said character could use on a single new item.


Greetings, Polymachos

That conversion of currencies was coming to my mind, too, while testing on BR. If they stick to Ancient Scripts that would probably be the target currency. But if that happened automatically one could run into the currency cap (currently 1000 on account base).

[LagunaD2]

The burning question that nobody is asking:

What about our legendary BRIDLES?!

[wispsong]

Indeed. My approach to the current LI system has been to always be ready for the next upgrade and only for the next upgrade.

Would it be fair if the maxed out weapon could be immediately traded for the one that only needs that last bit of work to be fully maxed again?

Don't really see the alternative here after 6 years of continuous upgrades to a single item(s) unless they decide to go for a total reset/everyone starts from zero.

Would I do it again from zero in a slightly more user-friendly system? No way, that ship has sailed sometime around CoS nerf.

Again, the way I understand this new system is that it comes closer to the old LI in that there are new traceries every 10? player levels. There is no grind from the start up, you grind the tracery levels in endgame after you slotted the newest ones if you want to do higher tier instances. Looks more like the essence system which you periodically change to higher essences. This is why it looks to be a better system to me. It also grows actually with you concerning dps through reforge.

No more getting ready for the next update.

It seems to me that only a very small amount of players actually cared enough to test this system from level 50 on and there comments are so few, they are just skipped. Raninia has chimed in Friday explaining the system and the goal. Read his comments which for me made this new system way better then what we have now. Don't go by what end game players say, they are used to grind for small amounts of increase. I don't see any change coming for them except that it might be easier to get alternate characters and new players faster into the new end game content. For casuals like me who just can't stand doing the same content 100s of times over and loves playing different characters this should be a lot easier to maintain. I'm carefully optimistic about this new system I most definitely will give it a try to see if my newer chatracters now could easily go to Mordor where I just would have stopped before.

[Braer]

The burning question that nobody is asking:

What about our legendary BRIDLES?!

I'm sure I made a post on it a few days ago. I think I heard Raninia mention MC was just another forgotten(paraphrasing) tech alongside Skirms and BBs for some future attention.

Ofc for players NO tech can be forgotten because it always remains in the game.

The timeline for attention will be the day the old LI system is switched off and that can't be so long if the current rewards to upgrade them are being altered to IL advancement. It would spoil it if in 6 months we have an LI panel with a single bridle in it and no means to advance/alter it.

The relic-master is integral to making specific runes for war-steeds and much to advance early LIs so can't remain without significant changes. Ofc latterly our guild masters have been excepting bartered crafts we didn't craft ourselves but bartered for. Like handing in the work of another - to our boss!

I doubt bridles are in the current plan because it's only players that have their eyes on every aspect of the LI system and systems have the narrow view of what's in their purview and MC has been in no one's for years. Didn't they bring in a consultant to implement it in the first place, hazy on this one? The disconnect with on foot play would suggest it was the case though.

I'll still want to choose the speed I enter Gundabad; walk, trot, canter or gallop.

[kudurru1]

Again, the way I understand this new system is that it comes closer to the old LI in that there are new traceries every 10? player levels. There is no grind from the start up, you grind the tracery levels in endgame after you slotted the newest ones if you want to do higher tier instances. Looks more like the essence system which you periodically change to higher essences. This is why it looks to be a better system to me. It also grows actually with you concerning dps through reforge.

No more getting ready for the next update.

It seems to me that only a very small amount of players actually cared enough to test this system from level 50 on and there comments are so few, they are just skipped. Raninia has chimed in Friday explaining the system and the goal. Read his comments which for me made this new system way better then what we have now. Don't go by what end game players say, they are used to grind for small amounts of increase. I don't see any change coming for them except that it might be easier to get alternate characters and new players faster into the new end game content. For casuals like me who just can't stand doing the same content 100s of times over and loves playing different characters this should be a lot easier to maintain. I'm carefully optimistic about this new system I most definitely will give it a try to see if my newer chatracters now could easily go to Mordor where I just would have stopped before.

I did some BR testing of this system but don't really have an opinion so far as it's still in the works and the barter from old to new is yet to come. The required class re-balance is a bit alarming, especially concerning the Champion. I will be the first to admit I'm pessimistic after 6 years of dealing with a "weapon that grows with you" which definitely impacts my judgement. But you are right that as many players as possible should test the next Beta.

[wispsong]

I did some BR testing of this system but don't really have an opinion so far as it's still in the works and the barter from old to new is yet to come. The required class re-balance is a bit alarming, especially concerning the Champion. I will be the first to admit I'm pessimistic after 6 years of dealing with a "weapon that grows with you" which definitely impacts my judgement. But you are right that as many players as possible should test the next Beta.

Class balancing is an ongoing process and needs to be looked at most definitely since some legacies we now have will go away. And while it should go along with LI revamp I doubt they'll get it right. Live feedback is probably needed for that. The problem with the ILI is that it actually does not grow with you as promised. You constantly need to feed it to even be able to do new landscape content. No character without all crystals could do 3 Peaks. Maybe the elite raiders but most certainly not casual landscape players. This is one of the problem the new systems seems to fix. I still would prefer regular weapons/class items which would make balancing so much easier, removal of essences would also add to that. But then some players would scream about lost customization.


After this they should look at the virtue mess. A 130 character having 100 of extra stats compared to somebody having 10s of thousands extra makes a big difference.

[Frappy]

Would I do it again from zero in a slightly more user-friendly system? No way, that ship has sailed sometime around CoS nerf.

Honestly if they 'zero-out' the level 100 First Age Imbued Legendary Items that players have spent the last however-many years grinding up, players will leave and that would have a direct effect on revenue, so I am hopeful the devs would not be so foolish.

Will this transition work in a similar way? Will the LI enhancements be turned into a kind of currency/tokens/coupons that can be used to upgrade the new versions of the LI's? And will they be applicable to all characters on one server, as the Mithril Coins do? I think, that would be the easiest way to transfer the progress of our inspired weapon without causing major issues, especially if someone has accumulated so many traits/enhancements on one character that it is much more than said character could use on a single new item.

The principle of getting some value-equivalent tokens that can be applied to the reworked items to put you back to where you are, to not lose progress - that makes sense. I have concerns over bag-space limitation. If you need (with just 2 LIs) more than 25 items to slot your heraldries, words of power etc... plus 5000 tokens of A and 4000 tokens of B and 3000 tokens of C to represent what has "come out" from the old LI but your bags are full or you're a player who didn't expand your bags much, that's a bit of a worry. The old LI system was clunky for this with the shards/fragments and LI exp runes and legacy overwrite scrolls and renewal scrolls all falling out of a single item when deconned at a relic master. Multiply that up by your 3 weapons and 3 class items and on patch day the day you'll be 1) very busy with getting head around a complex system and 2) have no bag space to jig things around in.

I'm hopeful for the "words" and so on to appear in the as yet unseen LI panel in a similar way to how the relics that are already unsealed do.

[LadySelene]

Just do away with the caps, everyone hates them and they create major problems for players with multiple actively played alts. I understand (from the company's point of view) the need to have a cap on embers, but motes and local region tokens, what for? Festival tokens, what for - to stop playing the festival? And now currency to build the LI, capped?
(listen to your playerbase, please)

Bridles, that's probably a reason for the old LI panel to stay and the "transition period" to extend forever, which will benefit those who took a long break from the game

Now, mithril coins.
Even if one level of advancement will require one MC, it will be 49 MC per tracery, and it will be lost after you replace it with a better version (or higher level version, on level cap increase)?
NOTHING paid with real money should EVER be lost through the normal gameplay process. Overwriting a tracery looks like a normal, intended process (and as we had gear levels increase, probably there suddenly will be better traceries from a new raid at some point... probably with the same % to skill but with better secondary stat, the one which benefits from enhancement runes). It's obvious - if you got lucky, you'll want to replace the existing one. But if the progress is lost, then 1) You'll think twice about slotting it and therefore might have no incentive to run the new raid (and pay for content), and 2) someone would slot it, expecting the progress will be kept, lose all spent MC and start writing tickets, only to be answered "Working as intended". Customer unhappy, sub cancelled. Probably.
I'm not sure I would even chase (free) enhancement runes if there's always a better version of any tracery. Get one and sell on AH

As for leveling... it is a big improvement that reforging a LI will increase its DPS, but those level-locked traceries would probably make me just forget about them, unless they drop from mobs. I mean, farming all Middle-Earth factions to barter for a skill, if in 5 levels it won't be usable? I'll pass.

[Harvain]

Just do away with the caps, everyone hates them and they create major problems for players with multiple actively played alts. I understand (from the company's point of view) the need to have a cap on embers, but motes and local region tokens, what for? Festival tokens, what for - to stop playing the festival? And now currency to build the LI, capped?
(listen to your playerbase, please)

Bridles, that's probably a reason for the old LI panel to stay and the "transition period" to extend forever, which will benefit those who took a long break from the game

Now, mithril coins.
Even if one level of advancement will require one MC, it will be 49 MC per tracery, and it will be lost after you replace it with a better version (or higher level version, on level cap increase)?
NOTHING paid with real money should EVER be lost through the normal gameplay process. Overwriting a tracery looks like a normal, intended process (and as we had gear levels increase, probably there suddenly will be better traceries from a new raid at some point... probably with the same % to skill but with better secondary stat, the one which benefits from enhancement runes). It's obvious - if you got lucky, you'll want to replace the existing one. But if the progress is lost, then 1) You'll think twice about slotting it and therefore might have no incentive to run the new raid (and pay for content), and 2) someone would slot it, expecting the progress will be kept, lose all spent MC and start writing tickets, only to be answered "Working as intended". Customer unhappy, sub cancelled. Probably.
I'm not sure I would even chase (free) enhancement runes if there's always a better version of any tracery. Get one and sell on AH

As for leveling... it is a big improvement that reforging a LI will increase its DPS, but those level-locked traceries would probably make me just forget about them, unless they drop from mobs. I mean, farming all Middle-Earth factions to barter for a skill, if in 5 levels it won't be usable? I'll pass.

Traceries will have a large Level Range where they become stronger and are useful for a good amount of time but as a Player reaches the Tracery's Max Level, they will eventually become less useful. That is when a Player would want to seek new Traceries for the next Level Range. The Starter ones seem like they'll be Level 95 (I think was the Beta Tracery Max Level of the early Traceries). They also will act like how various other things do when you reach a Max Level, become unusable where while you can still use them at a higher than said Item's Max Level, no Set Bonuses will work (this will eventually be in the game, it only somewhat is but more Set Bonuses will be affected by such in the future).

[Paladin_Ovron]

I’m hoping that we can trade our old LI’s to get Ancient Scripts and a selectable “special tokens” box that give you enough for the new LI.

[DroboTheDwarf]

As a player who has been around for about 10 years. I am withholding judgement on this until it comes out. I am praying it is not gated behind instances/raids and is much like it is not being able to do standard dallies/weeklies for what is needed.

That said, it is going to be the nail in the coffin for me and others I think if it is not a much better system then what is in place now. This, along with the level grind to 130+ are big downsides to the game that take a good deal of enjoyment out of it.