Producer's Letter - Forced server merges?

[Orivien]

You mean when it is already decided and too late to do anything but quit?

They wouldn't plan to ask for feedback if they were 100% decided they made up their mind, and wouldn't consider what players actually want. For that reason all I mean is to remain calm and wait for how things start to form when we get more information later.

[Ingiogal]

Here's my take:

Most of my life on LOTRO has been spent on Nimrodel. Not a high population server but one that makes me happy. I know many great people there. I had two problems: I was lonely when my friends weren't there and there were some jackwagons ruining the culture on Nimrodel so that I felt forced to abandon /glff and /world. In short, I was lonely and the two chief ways to try to combat my loneliness were tainted.

I decided, along with my husband, that if we wanted to try to find more group play, we should give a higher population server a try. So we created new toons on Brandywine. We met a lot of great people there in a kin that fits me like a glove and have found a lot of happiness with Brandywine. However, the Brandy /glff and /world channels are even worse than on Nimrodel. That didn't surprise me. To be honest, I almost expected it. I was however surprised to discover that I have no more success getting a group for fellowship content on Brandywine than I do on Nimrodel. It took an hour to fill my first call for a 6-man group on Brandy.

I've come to two conclusions about what I need to return to a great gaming experience on LOTRO:

I need a good kinship and that isn't dependent on the server. Where I find good kinship, I can be happy. Kinships, friendships, and camaraderie are the backbone of the game. I think people who find this are more likely to stick with the game.

I don't want to put up with self-aggrandizing bullies masquerading as players of the game. This problem was critical in making me take an intermediate step in seeking a solution by trying another server, it is a HUGE factor in driving other people out of the game entirely.

How I'm going to face the future?

If LOTRO needs to have servers merged, I'll try to put my best face on it and move forward. I'll do my part.

I need LOTRO to do their part too. Don't just merge servers and blend the dregs of this game into the larger community of pleasant, cooperative, helpful people united in enjoying a great game. Let's see LOTRO make the Code of Conduct a meaningful backbone for our gaming enjoyment by actually monitoring and enforcing the rules. https://www.lotro.com/en/content/lor...e-code-conduct

On any given day on LOTRO, I find the Code of Conduct being violated with impunity. Number items 1, 3, 5, 13, and 28 are violated regularly. The naming policies are violated. In short, by not enforcing the Code of Conduct, the document is a sham and conduct that damages the game and its enjoyment by the majority of players has become acceptable conduct.

So, again, if we need to consolidate servers, I can go along with it. Turbine, are you going to do your part to make them BETTER servers and not just bigger servers?

[BangoTwinkletoes]

My interpretation is we're working on improved server transfer tools and want to encourage people to consolidate servers without dictating "Gladden and Riddermark merge" and "E and Crick" merge. You will be allowed to choose the server you move to, but you will move because I think the long-term plan is close some of the servers.

Fair to say that at some point over the next 9 months,Turbine will announce those servers that are to close and will give people a window to migrate. As mentioned on the lotto community site, there must be thousands of old accounts that will not be used again and such closures and migrations will give Turbine the opportunity to clear down the data and significantly reduce their admin overheads. I just cannot see how the smaller realms would continue with vastly reduced populations knowing that the intent with this exercise is to reduce operating costs.

[Dmira]

Yeah I am really surprised Turbine finally admitted there is a decrease in population. Never thought they'd do it. Now maybe the ones who kept on saying oh there's no problem with the population will finally wake up and realize yeah there is.

They will when their kins are moved to a new server.

This game got away from "community" a long time ago on a macro level. Now those who lived in their own bubbles within the game (not a bad thing IMHO) have to have this conversation.

Actually, I think a lot of players will simply stop playing when their kins are forced to move, especially if they paid the transfer fees to move to a lower populated server, like in Wof's case. But that's just my opinion. Time will tell.

[Dmira]

They wouldn't plan to ask for feedback if they were 100% decided they made up their mind, and wouldn't consider what players actually want. For that reason all I mean is to remain calm and wait for how things start to form when we get more information later.

Turbine asked for feedback for the housing revamp and we all saw how that ended. I think they have already made up their minds. Our "feedback" will simply be used to tweek the details, not change their plans.

[Thorgrum]

Actually, I think a lot of players will simply stop playing when their kins are forced to move, especially if they paid the transfer fees to move to a lower populated server, like in Wof's case. But that's just my opinion. Time will tell.

On its surface that would appear to be one of the objectives. Its not an extreme extrapolation to deduce that by reducing servers and or "forcing" a merge turbine has calculated a % of its players will leave. Its a self fulfilling prophesy sadly, but this is where we are. No one can really deny that the population for the game is low, hence how could anyone logically say that maintaining the infrastructure for a larger player base makes sense?

In the end, those affected are going to have to decide how dedicated they are to the mmo, I can handle a merge I wont be affected in the least. No matter what server I am on, I dislike 97% of the people anyway.

[Bulbous]

This is completely misinterpreting the letter. There is no question that a lot of people are whining that they are on empty servers. There are just as many people indicating they are fine with their server populations. Turbine will not close servers, but they may offer people the opportunity to transfer.

[LethalLethality]

If Gladden gets merged with another server, I'll likely end up quitting. I took a long break (two months or so) after it was the recommended server for so long because there was so many people there. I wanted it to die down a bit so other folks didn't annoy me so much.

[Calta]

My approach will be to see what is actually proposed.

If I get to transfer for free my goods and chattels, marks and meds, and get a free equivalent house and a rename token I will be pleased to transfer some alts off a server that has had less than a 100 non anon players on at peak times. I am happy to choose one for them from a list. So like Thorgrum it doesn't worry me, unlike him, it's largely because I like 97% of people on all 3 servers I play on.

I think new blood would make even the medium servers more lively and more like an inhabited world. I sympathise with those who simply can't afford a character transfer. I paid to transfer my main some 8 months ago and created a new character at the same time. I like both my new servers and at least I see people playing and get to do things with new friends and kinnies again. I am no longer lonely.

I assume this will be a slow process of attrition and so I will actively decide what I will do, rather than hanging on to a very low pop server until it is closed in a year for economy reasons. If I still had an active kin on that server I would be discussing hypothetical options now. But I wouldn't be panicing until I see what is actually in the works. There is some serious tech involved if we can go from EU to US servers and vice versa and keep our stuff. I think it will take some time.....

But then I've been made redundant a lot in RL. I've learned to grab what's on offer early and run for it, to the next new opportunity, rather than waiting and arguing about fairness and principles, until there are no freebies left , no where to choose to run to, and the door is locked and the lights are out. It was a hard life lesson but maybe it's worth thinking about to avoid pain when reality bites.

edit: I'd note that transfers of established players to a server will be a very different experience for those on the server, from that of being the recommended server for an influx of new players attracted by a new release or a steam deal.

[kickman77]

Merging server would be a good economic move for Turbine because frankly seeing servers with 30 active people at time must be a drain on their economic resource.

The only thing I can suggest to the player who like small unpopulated ervers is that you all find a way to crowd source or dip into your own pockets to pay to keep the erver up, because to me, closing a few servers meanss the money going to keep them alive might be the money they ue to create some new content we can all enjoy

sorry for my bluntness

[mykidstjz]

Here's my take:

Most of my life on LOTRO has been spent on Nimrodel. Not a high population server but one that makes me happy. I know many great people there. I had two problems: I was lonely when my friends weren't there and there were some jackwagons ruining the culture on Nimrodel so that I felt forced to abandon /glff and /world. In short, I was lonely and the two chief ways to try to combat my loneliness were tainted.

I decided, along with my husband, that if we wanted to try to find more group play, we should give a higher population server a try. So we created new toons on Brandywine. We met a lot of great people there in a kin that fits me like a glove and have found a lot of happiness with Brandywine. However, the Brandy /glff and /world channels are even worse than on Nimrodel. That didn't surprise me. To be honest, I almost expected it. I was however surprised to discover that I have no more success getting a group for fellowship content on Brandywine than I do on Nimrodel. It took an hour to fill my first call for a 6-man group on Brandy.

I've come to two conclusions about what I need to return to a great gaming experience on LOTRO:

I need a good kinship and that isn't dependent on the server. Where I find good kinship, I can be happy. Kinships, friendships, and camaraderie are the backbone of the game. I think people who find this are more likely to stick with the game.

I don't want to put up with self-aggrandizing bullies masquerading as players of the game. This problem was critical in making me take an intermediate step in seeking a solution by trying another server, it is a HUGE factor in driving other people out of the game entirely.

How I'm going to face the future?

If LOTRO needs to have servers merged, I'll try to put my best face on it and move forward. I'll do my part.

I need LOTRO to do their part too. Don't just merge servers and blend the dregs of this game into the larger community of pleasant, cooperative, helpful people united in enjoying a great game. Let's see LOTRO make the Code of Conduct a meaningful backbone for our gaming enjoyment by actually monitoring and enforcing the rules. https://www.lotro.com/en/content/lor...e-code-conduct

On any given day on LOTRO, I find the Code of Conduct being violated with impunity. Number items 1, 3, 5, 13, and 28 are violated regularly. The naming policies are violated. In short, by not enforcing the Code of Conduct, the document is a sham and conduct that damages the game and its enjoyment by the majority of players has become acceptable conduct.

So, again, if we need to consolidate servers, I can go along with it. Turbine, are you going to do your part to make them BETTER servers and not just bigger servers?

Well said.When I first started playing LOTRO on Silverlode 7 years ago, I used to ask for help glff/occ/etc..I got a few smartalec replies..but they were in good nature ribbing and then the people would answer the questions you need an answer too and offer to help you if you needed it with said quest etc...I would to see like more of this than what it has become lately.

[Hammadryad]

Merging server would be a good economic move for Turbine because frankly seeing servers with 30 active people at time must be a drain on their economic resource.

The only thing I can suggest to the player who like small unpopulated ervers is that you all find a way to crowd source or dip into your own pockets to pay to keep the erver up, because to me, closing a few servers meanss the money going to keep them alive might be the money they ue to create some new content we can all enjoy

sorry for my bluntness

That works for other games ONCE THE OWNER ALLOWS SOMEONE ELSE TO CONTROL IT! I still play WOW on a private server using the old Burning Crusade version. Can you see Turbine or especially WB allowing the sourcecode to be used by private individuals to run private servers?

[Wof]

They wouldn't plan to ask for feedback if they were 100% decided they made up their mind, and wouldn't consider what players actually want. For that reason all I mean is to remain calm and wait for how things start to form when we get more information later.

There is one big problem with this idea.......

Do I buy that new region/expansion?
What about buying more mithril coins?
Should I renew my subscription or cancel it now?
Do I want to invest more time and money into a game I might decide to quit soon if things turn out the way I fear?

Unless Turbine can answer those querstions how the hell can we relax and wait to see?

[Jillymala]

There is one big problem with this idea.......

Do I buy that new region/expansion?
What about buying more mithril coins?
Should I renew my subscription or cancel it now?
Do I want to invest more time and money into a game I might decide to quit soon if things turn out the way I fear?

Unless Turbine can answer those querstions how the hell can we relax and wait to see?

Then what you need to decide is whether it's worth it to you RIGHT NOW to play for those things. Not in the future. If it's worth it to you to pay for them and enjoy the game as it is right at this moment in time then great, if not, then no. Basing decisions on your game 9 months ahead of time is a thin argument. Anything can happen in that 9 months.. heck a meteor might hit the Earth and wipe us all out in that time.. will it diminish your gameplay today? Nope.

[Mar-Evayave]

The following is purely my theory on what they are going to do, based on what makes the most sense to me personally.

Turbine will open transfers from small servers to big servers for free, with some feature to allow kin leaders to transfer every member in their kin with them.

After some amount of weeks of this, the free transfers end and Turbine moves to the next step: mergers. However, I do not believe they will force merge small servers with big servers. LOTRO has 29 servers. To pull a number out of a hat, perhaps they will then take the 10 lowest population servers (lowest population after all the free transfers that take place, which will make them even lower population than they are now) and merge those 10 together. Just with themselves, not with one of the big servers.

By the time this happens, they'll have 19 big and medium servers, and then 1 newly formed server that contains all of the residual players from the former 10 small servers. This server may well end up still being the lowest population server in the game, but at least there is only 1 small server now, instead of 10.

This allows players on small servers to remain on small servers (they won't be forced into Brandywine or Landroval, etc) and it allows players who want off small servers to get into a larger server for free (and with all their friends if their friends want to go as well).

At this stage, the mechanics involved (transferring whole kinships, merging in general, etc) are still in early planning stages. They are exploring what options they have that can achieve the above. But if they manage to pull it off, I think people who want to be on bigger servers will be happy, and people who want to stay on smaller servers will be happy too.

I do not know how names or houses will go. This may end up being a necessary evil, but one that affects a very small proportion of people. After oodles of people transfer off the 10 lowest population servers, how many will really be left? What is the likelihood that there will be a lot of people with the same names? I'm sure it will happen, but I don't think it will be wide-spread.

For us, the players, we should wait and see. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, but don't leap to any conclusions off-the-bat. This means kin leaders need to try and keep their kinmates calm. Since we don't know yet what will happen or how it will happen, we simply are borrowing trouble and blowing it way out of proportion.

[tsunamimc]

Turbine will open transfers from small servers to big servers for free, with some feature to allow kin leaders to transfer every member in their kin with them.

After some amount of weeks of this, the free transfers end and Turbine moves to the next step: mergers. However, I do not believe they will force merge small servers with big servers. LOTRO has 29 servers. To pull a number out of a hat, perhaps they will then take the 10 lowest population servers (lowest population after all the free transfers that take place, which will make them even lower population than they are now) and merge those 10 together. Just with themselves, not with one of the big servers.

Looks rather sensible

Crosses fingers and toes that we all come out of 2015 all happy with our SERVER(s) and LOTRO

[Thorsock]

I assume my main server--Landroval--is more likely a "transfer to" server than a "transfer from" server. And as much as I like Landroval, I'm not so tied to that community that moving somewhere else would cause me any great pain. All three of my accounts are Lifetime, so it's not as if I'm ever cancelling them. But what would make me stop from ever playing LOTRO again would be losing my names. I have about 6-7 "mains" whose names are special to me. Some, I've had since LOTRO Beta. Some, I've been using in fantasy RPGs since D&D in the late 70s. Were I to lose those names via forced merger, I believe I'd stop playing LOTRO altogether.

Which brings me to another issue: Purging names. I've played enough MMOs to know that, eventually, most (if not all) end up merging servers. I still laugh when I remember how many servers Age of Conan had at release ... and the handful they have now. So, as insurance against server mergers in LOTRO, I (years ago) claimed all my favorite names on every US server in LOTRO. Some of those long-neglected alts are still in Archet. Some haven't even left the Blackwold Jail. Some were leveled a bit years ago when I wanted to experience a new server. Some only earn xp when we get the auto-quest to start a festival. I log into each server every Thursday for Hobbit Gifts and log into each character on each server whenever there is a new festival or event that rewards xp without actually doing anything. But I don't ever play all those extra-jurisdictional alts. I use them to reserve my names in case my guys from my main server ever get sent there. I always assumed it was just a matter of time (in this case, years) before LOTRO shrunk as well.

[Ingiogal]

The following is purely my theory on what they are going to do, based on what makes the most sense to me personally.

Turbine will open transfers from small servers to big servers for free, with some feature to allow kin leaders to transfer every member in their kin with them.

After some amount of weeks of this, the free transfers end and Turbine moves to the next step: mergers. However, I do not believe they will force merge small servers with big servers. LOTRO has 29 servers. To pull a number out of a hat, perhaps they will then take the 10 lowest population servers (lowest population after all the free transfers that take place, which will make them even lower population than they are now) and merge those 10 together. Just with themselves, not with one of the big servers.

By the time this happens, they'll have 19 big and medium servers, and then 1 newly formed server that contains all of the residual players from the former 10 small servers. This server may well end up still being the lowest population server in the game, but at least there is only 1 small server now, instead of 10.

^^^^ A Very Sensible Proposal! I can go with this. It would only cause a problem for me if the small servers that I love happen to push me over the cap on characters. On Nimrodel, I'm majorly maxed out on characters. I couldn't merge them to another server without losing characters. Losing characters I care about would grieve me deeply.

[DobbelB_EU]

After some amount of weeks of this, the free transfers end and Turbine moves to the next step: mergers. However, I do not believe they will force merge small servers with big servers. LOTRO has 29 servers. To pull a number out of a hat, perhaps they will then take the 10 lowest population servers (lowest population after all the free transfers that take place, which will make them even lower population than they are now) and merge those 10 together. Just with themselves, not with one of the big servers.

By the time this happens, they'll have 19 big and medium servers, and then 1 newly formed server that contains all of the residual players from the former 10 small servers. This server may well end up still being the lowest population server in the game, but at least there is only 1 small server now, instead of 10.

We have a proverb in Dutch saying 'many little make one big'. If you combine 10 small servers into one, it's not small anymore.

Besides there are some other practical problems. There are 4 different types of servers (American, UK, FR and DE). Since the European servers are going to move back, it won't be merged with an American one. Each of these languages also has a roleplaying server, which also can't be merged with others (population might only be a problem for the French one anyway).

[Beaniemooch]

Merging server would be a good economic move for Turbine because frankly seeing servers with 30 active people at time must be a drain on their economic resource.

The only thing I can suggest to the player who like small unpopulated ervers is that you all find a way to crowd source or dip into your own pockets to pay to keep the erver up, because to me, closing a few servers meanss the money going to keep them alive might be the money they ue to create some new content we can all enjoy

sorry for my bluntness

Turbine will never allow this. They're not going to allow a "private" server funded by players who want lower population.

I've always found I prefer being blunt and there's no need to apologize at all so long as I'm not being deliberately rude to others. If you're going to be blunt, own it - don't apologize for it.

[Mar-Evayave]

Looks rather sensible

Crosses fingers and toes that we all come out of 2015 all happy with our SERVER(s) and LOTRO

If it goes even remotely to what I'm guessing, I think most players will be happy. There is a saying that goes something along the lines of this: you can please some of the people some of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but never all of the people all of the time. And I seriously have doubts about the middle part. I fully believe there will be at least some who simply will not be happy with any form of merge. However, and I say this with the greatest sympathy and understanding, there is another phrase that comes to mind: the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Turbine has no chance of making everyone happy, so they need to do what will make as many people happy as possible.

I assume my main server--Landroval--is more likely a "transfer to" server than a "transfer from" server. And as much as I like Landroval, I'm not so tied to that community that moving somewhere else would cause me any great pain. All three of my accounts are Lifetime, so it's not as if I'm ever cancelling them. But what would make me stop from ever playing LOTRO again would be losing my names. I have about 6-7 "mains" whose names are special to me. Some, I've had since LOTRO Beta. Some, I've been using in fantasy RPGs since D&D in the late 70s. Were I to lose those names via forced merger, I believe I'd stop playing LOTRO altogether.

Which brings me to another issue: Purging names. I've played enough MMOs to know that, eventually, most (if not all) end up merging servers. I still laugh when I remember how many servers Age of Conan had at release ... and the handful they have now. So, as insurance against server mergers in LOTRO, I (years ago) claimed all my favorite names on every US server in LOTRO. Some of those long-neglected alts are still in Archet. Some haven't even left the Blackwold Jail. Some were leveled a bit years ago when I wanted to experience a new server. Some only earn xp when we get the auto-quest to start a festival. I log into each server every Thursday for Hobbit Gifts and log into each character on each server whenever there is a new festival or event that rewards xp without actually doing anything. But I don't ever play all those extra-jurisdictional alts. I use them to reserve my names in case my guys from my main server ever get sent there. I always assumed it was just a matter of time (in this case, years) before LOTRO shrunk as well.

Probably yes. Landroval is probably a "transfer to" server.

And also yes, it would be nice if names could be purged. However, I don't know how this would be possible. We'd have people coming back after years shouting "what happened to my toons' names?!"

^^^^ A Very Sensible Proposal! I can go with this. It would only cause a problem for me if the small servers that I love happen to push me over the cap on characters. On Nimrodel, I'm majorly maxed out on characters. I couldn't merge them to another server without losing characters. Losing characters I care about would grieve me deeply.

That is one thing that would concern me. On the flip side, if they go through with all of this and end up getting better hardware for their servers as they suggested, it may well be that players can have as many characters as they want on their servers. Turbine may make it possible for players to play all of their characters (even if it's over the max) and simply not allow players to create new characters until they delete some. Kinda like what happens if you drop your sub with too much stuff in your wardrobe. You can continue to use those things, but until you get back below the limit you can't put new things in.

We have a proverb in Dutch saying 'many little make one big'. If you combine 10 small servers into one, it's not small anymore.

Besides there are some other practical problems. There are 4 different types of servers (American, UK, FR and DE). Since the European servers are going to move back, it won't be merged with an American one. Each of these languages also has a roleplaying server, which also can't be merged with others (population might only be a problem for the French one anyway).

Very true, but keep in mind that if what I theorize does happen, most of the people on those small servers will probably be gone. Those 10 servers would then be incredismall. And since so many people would have left them, the big and medium servers are even larger now. After merging the 10 of them, they may well still be a small population server, and may well still be smaller than the other 19.

And yes, there are some issues on the side that Turbine would have to keep in consideration. In theory, players will be able to transfer between EU and NA servers (according to Turbine themselves). Not sure how they would handle merging those types of servers though. In any case, "10 servers" was just a number pulled out of a hat. I don't even know which servers are the smallest. It could also be that they take 10 servers and merge them into 2 servers. The lowest EU servers into a single EU, and the lowest NA servers into a single NA. Something like that.

[Disparia]

If we analyze her words with a positive mind it's possible that they'll keep all servers. Transfers can get cheaper, but I doubt they'll ever be free so might as well leave it up to the player as to the server they wish to be on - it'll continue to make them money.

Minimal resources (handful of physical servers) can be devoted to the low-pop servers and players can be discourage from transferring to one of them.

Perhaps we could get our per-server shared wallet items changed to account-shared? That would ease the minds of some who want to do complete transfers off of one server to another.

[Vyvyanne]

I'll clarify a couple things here without going into details that are still being worked out.

There will be no forced data merge from one server to another, or to combine two servers. When/ if players move, they will make the choice themselves of which of the available worlds they want to move each of their characters and account or kinship to. Yes, we are likely to close a number of servers to play, but only after a large grace period and even after that the characters will remain available to be moved to another server to play on indefinitely. We have an idea of the servers we will wish to keep and which to close, but that list is not yet set in stone and may be subject to change as we see the results of transfers and some of the hardware investigation we are doing.

Also it appears I may have posted some incorrect info yesterday. We may not be able to allow EU <-> US transfers due to data concerns that remain from prior merges. But we are looking into it to see if any of our new tech might bridge that hurdle.

Cross server play/ chat is something we looked into but was not feasible with the age of our code and sheer amount of character data that could conflict.

I have more meetings on the transfers in the next couple of weeks to clarify some of the questions that remain. After that I should be able to start releasing more info on the plans and possibilities.

[PoeticNightmare]

I'll clarify a couple things here without going into details that are still being worked out.

There will be no forced data merge from one server to another, or to combine two servers. When/ if players move, they will make the choice themselves of which of the available worlds they want to move each of their characters and account or kinship to. Yes, we are likely to close a number of servers to play, but only after a large grace period and even after that the characters will remain available to be moved to another server to play on indefinitely. We have an idea of the servers we will wish to keep and which to close, but that list is not yet set in stone and may be subject to change as we see the results of transfers and some of the hardware investigation we are doing.

Also it appears I may have posted some incorrect info yesterday. We may not be able to allow EU <-> US transfers due to data concerns that remain from prior merges. But we are looking into it to see if any of our new tech might bridge that hurdle.

Cross server play/ chat is something we looked into but was not feasible with the age of our code and sheer amount of character data that could conflict.

I have more meetings on the transfers in the next couple of weeks to clarify some of the questions that remain. After that I should be able to start releasing more info on the plans and possibilities.

Will we be able to move our characters with the wardrobe, skirmish marks, and other items that are not currently allowed? I would very much like to transfer my characters as soon as its possible, and hope this is included.

[spelunker]

I'll clarify a couple things here without going into details that are still being worked out.

There will be no forced data merge from one server to another, or to combine two servers. When/ if players move, they will make the choice themselves of which of the available worlds they want to move each of their characters and account or kinship to. Yes, we are likely to close a number of servers to play, but only after a large grace period and even after that the characters will remain available to be moved to another server to play on indefinitely. We have an idea of the servers we will wish to keep and which to close, but that list is not yet set in stone and may be subject to change as we see the results of transfers and some of the hardware investigation we are doing.

If I'm reading this correctly, you're saying you won't force anyone to leave their server, but you will close down some servers entirely? Doesn't this mean you're forcing people to leave a server if they want to continue to play on their characters?