Fist Capstone

Boogey383 · #1 Nov 28 2009, 03:32 PM

Does anyone use it on a consistent basis outside of moors?

What is the fist role anyways?

Shield = Defensive
Spear = DPS
Fist = Threat?

As a medium armor class we generally slot defensive for tanking, so where does that leave the fist line?

I'd really like to see a better roll for the fist line to make it a viable option depending on the scenarios. I

horus93 · #2 Nov 28 2009, 04:06 PM

Fist is for AOE tanking when you have a decked out DPS squadron going with you and you have no time for defence buffs anyway. This is just my opinion.

Boogey383 · #3 Nov 28 2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horus93

Fist is for AOE tanking when you have a decked out DPS squadron going with you and you have no time for defence buffs anyway. This is just my opinion.

I almost get that impression, but generally, it's better to slot 5 shield 2 fist. (for the -fist gambit resist rating)

lf2536 · #4 Nov 28 2009, 04:22 PM

I tanked a couple of instances with fist capstone, I can't say I noticed a more than marginal addition to threat generation, yes, things were a bit easier becuase you get 20% more threat (10% actual and another 10% perceived), but not noticably so.

put this way: a champ that likes his raging blades will still steal threat from you.

geoboy · #5 Nov 28 2009, 04:26 PM

Last night some folks in my kinship alliance wanted me to tank 2.6.8 for them, and I was in the moors and didn't feel like retraiting to shield. I know the group, and wasn't worried about wipes.

I've got to say that I did use Desolation on all the multi-mob pulls and between that and WC, i got a lot of fears, which a) removes troll momentum buffs and b) gives the healer a bit of time to catch up on heals. On AoE, we really don't lose that much in fist line (or spear line for that matter), as our leeches are going to be equivalent or better than HoTs. Unless a boss is a real heavy hitter and requires a lot of Warden HoTs to take stress off of a healer, I see no drawbacks to using fist line.

LagunaD · #6 Nov 28 2009, 05:42 PM

I use Fist for most everything except Watcher, Turtle, 16th and HoM these days. The traits are pretty meh, and the capstone is meh, but the +20% threat and +15% damage on PB seems required to have any chance of holding aggro.

Agree that this line could use some tightening. The emphasis on DoTs is unfortunate, since even when traited they are very weak and power inefficient.

Boogey383 · #7 Nov 29 2009, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LagunaD

I use Fist for most everything except Watcher, Turtle, 16th and HoM these days. The traits are pretty meh, and the capstone is meh, but the +20% threat and +15% damage on PB seems required to have any chance of holding aggro.

Agree that this line could use some tightening. The emphasis on DoTs is unfortunate, since even when traited they are very weak and power inefficient.

If you're using fist for just threat, try playing around with conviction a little more. Threat on conviction early in a fight can be incredibly powerful with all of that potential Healing threat.

horus93 · #8 Nov 29 2009, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boogey383

If you're using fist for just threat, try playing around with conviction a little more. Threat on conviction early in a fight can be incredibly powerful with all of that potential Healing threat.

FWIW, my rotation for multi-mob pulls is usually WoF to a mobs back, WC, JoDF (3rd because I have a better chance to hit them all), EoB, Conviction and DoW, then the PBs start.

As I said I only cap fist when I have to and I see quite a difference. For stuff like Gurvand and the Watcher I go shield. With my kin, shield is only for raid boss tanking or when taking out a bunch of wimpy alts to get gear.

My HoTs aren't going to help the healer when she is getting the stuffing beaten out of her.

Boogey383 · #9 Nov 29 2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horus93

FWIW, my rotation for multi-mob pulls is usually WoF to a mobs back, WC, JoDF (3rd because I have a better chance to hit them all), EoB, Conviction and DoW, then the PBs start.

As I said I only cap fist when I have to and I see quite a difference. For stuff like Gurvand and the Watcher I go shield. With my kin, shield is only for raid boss tanking or when taking out a bunch of wimpy alts to get gear.

My HoTs aren't going to help the healer when she is getting the stuffing beaten out of her.

If you're interested in trying another rotation that has been very effective for me in 5 shield 3 mastery slotted then open with EoB on top of everyone (3 masteries), then build conviction, then use leech series to do aoe damage and get heals.

You can also open with JoDF.

Grampsaz · #10 Nov 29 2009, 03:32 PM

I stay capstone fist for everything. Mainly because I hate paying for trait slots every bloody day but, Fist for threat all the way. All I do on my Warden is go on runs, and Champs in kin tend to hit hard and fast so I need all the help I can get with the threat.

But traited capstone, threat is a non-issue after the first 10-15s of a pull.

ppinkham · #11 Nov 29 2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boogey383

Does anyone use it on a consistent basis outside of moors?

What is the fist role anyways?

Shield = Defensive
Spear = DPS
Fist = Threat?

As a medium armor class we generally slot defensive for tanking, so where does that leave the fist line?

I have always viewed it as:

Shield = Main Tank
Spear = DPS
Fist = Off Tank

Fist seems like the ideal trait line for picking up and holding trash mobs.

lf2536 · #12 Nov 30 2009, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ppinkham

I have always viewed it as:

Shield = Main Tank
Spear = DPS
Fist = Off Tank

Fist seems like the ideal trait line for picking up and holding trash mobs.

mmm...

Shield = defensive/main tank
spear = DPS
fist = DPS/main tank

LtDiablo · #13 Nov 30 2009, 10:44 AM

I only ever slot two fist traits for the +10%, and I like Goad

, especially after running FG with another warden, he fired off WC followed by a mastery WC, and my 1 Goad still won

japridemor · #14 Nov 30 2009, 11:40 AM

Just the other night I realized that wasting
A slot on the fist capstone is a bad idea.
Test it out if you don't believe me. compared
To the op spear capstone, the fist line sucks.
See by doing more DPS you get more threat.
Who wastes time using the threat gambits? It
Is obvious that pure DPS draws more threat and you're
Paying a huge penalty by not slotting Spear line.
Attention is required to see how this works.

LtDiablo · #15 Nov 30 2009, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by japridemor

Just the other night I realized that wasting
A slot on the fist capstone is a bad idea.
Test it out if you don't believe me. compared
To the op spear capstone, the fist line sucks.
See by doing more DPS you get more threat.
Who wastes time using the threat gambits? It
Is obvious that pure DPS draws more threat and you're
Paying a huge penalty by not slotting Spear line.
Attention is required to see how this works.

Lawls QFT indeed