Class Guide: Warden

[Bowman_lp]

Hello my fellow wardens. With this guide I'm not pretending on guiding you through the game, but to give some advices for tanking, PvMP (Ettenmoors basics) and choosing LI for both.

Tanking:

First of all, I'm not a mighty power experiensed warden, but with a lot of research in the forums, reading guides and learning through the game I realized that wardens are not just an awsome soloing class but mighty tanks too. The only thing that separates a good tank warden from being nothing, is strategy and practice.
To begin with this guide I'll say the diference between guardian and warden tanking. Guardian tanking focus in taking and resisting most of the damage, (I've never played a guardian much but I think I can tell this), also blocking but this is in second stance. Most of this is able because of guardians high armor points and morale. On the other hand, wardens as we can use medium armor, our tanking focuses not just in high block, evade and parry ratings, but also in a good combination of gambits. As a warden you must know how all gambits are built and what they do. A good combination goes from buffing skills to self-heals and threat generators. Most of the problems that wardens have in tanking is aggro management. How to achive keeping the aggro through all the fight? Easy! Almost all warden threat generators skills are through time, so take advantage of that. Example of a good threat generation strategy is: (Single boss fight)

_Precise Blow. (Avoid this skill with more than one mob)
_2 War Cries. (If you need to tank adds)
_Exultation of Battle.
_Conviction or Dance of War. (If you need heals use conviction)

After this launchs you'll probably not need any other threat generators skill, but if things go dificult use a Defiant Challenge. Well, now I know how to keep aggro, but what about keeping me alive? In the first phase of the battle, when you are trying to generate aggro, you'll need a minstrels help to live. After this initial phase you can now concentrate more in your buffs. Throwing Wall of Steel, Shield Mastery and Dance of War will increase your parry, block and evade rating and if you want you can increase your morale with some self-heals such as Restoration. Another tooltip to remember, warden's AoEs self-heals. In final bosses fights when ever needed use alts to increase your self-heals pool. On the second hand, power sometimes becomes a big issue. How to keep power up? Something I use mostly is, when ever I have a LM in my fellowship I go in Determination Stance, because if I need power I can ask him for some. When there is no power healing class in the fellowship I try to be in Conservation Stance this will save your power a bit more. Another thing you can do, though is very risky, is to tell your minstrel to let your morale go below the 50% and throw a quick The dark before Dawn, you can combine this with one or two self-heals before this to prevent any mistakes. A good combination of carvins also help this.
Finaly and not less important, how to combinate these strategies with LI weapons? Some leagacies that could improve the effectiveness of these strategies are:

Main hand Weapon (As you'll be tanking and SoM lunches there no need for a speacial type, I use Spear for the bleeding damge because most of the time I hit with auto-attack):
_War Cry Threat.
_Exultation of Battle Threat.
_Wall of Steel parry Rating.

Ranged Weapon:
_Conservation In Combat Power Regeneration
_Determination In Combat Morale Regeneration.
_Heal bonus for Conviction.
_Restoration Morale Healed.
_Shield Mastery Block Rating.
_Dance of War Evade Rating.
_Dark Before Dawn Power Restored.

You don't need all of them for the strategy to work. In matter of traits try to be in Shield Line traits.

Ettenmoors:

When I go PvMP or Sparing I try to be in Spear Line Traits, increasing mele critical rating. In second place, as gambits are hard to build during PvMP I try to gain aggro ranged use a quick gambit build skill such as Speat and Shield. Also I try to avoide building long gambits. I usualy use Onslaught, The Boot for single targets and when things go hard I trow some AoEs self-heals (Resolution and Exultation of Battle). Tooltip: Try always to be in a big fellowship and look for big fights so you have more chance to throw AoEs. If you like soloing take advantage of Carefull Step, Ambush and Critical Strike, but again avoid building long gambits and always be in Determination Stance. A good combination of LI legacies for these strategies:

Main Hand Weapon:
_Ambush Critical Multiplier.
_Critical Strike Critical Multiplier.
_Onslaught Damage.
_Mighty Blow Damage.

Ranged Weapon:
_Ambush and Careful Step Inductions.
_Careful Step Duration.
_Determination In Combat Morale Regeneration.
_Reduced To-Hit Movement penalty for Javelin Skills.
_Forced March Max Power Penalty.

This is it! Thank you very much for taking your time to read, and I hope it was usefull. If any other warden knows or use another strategies I encourage him to share it. I've tank almost every instance of the game and these strategies have been usefull for me. Bye and see you online.

(This thread is a Warden Guide discusion non anti-warden post accepted)

PS: Legacies are just suggestions not a must have.

[Morcanden]

Originally Posted by Bowman_lp

Example of a good threat generation strategy is: (Single boss fight)

_Precise Blow. (Avoid this skill with more than one mob)
_2 War Cries.
_Exultation of Battle.
_Conviction or Dance of War. (If you need heals use conviction)

I would disagree with this for single boss strategy, as war cry and exultation are very inefficient for single targets. Generally I stick to PB and Conviction/DoW unless I have at least 3 targets.

Originally Posted by Bowman_lp

Main hand Weapon (As you'll be tanking and SoM lunches there no need for a speacial type, I use Spear for the bleeding damge because most of the time I hit with auto-attack):
_War Cry Threat.
_Exultation of Battle Threat.
_Wall of Steel parry Rating.

Ranged Weapon:
_Conservation In Combat Power Regeneration
_Determination In Combat Morale Regeneration.
_Heal bonus for Conviction.
_Restoration Morale Healed.
_Shield Mastery Block Rating.
_Dance of War Evade Rating.
_Dark Before Dawn Power Restored.

You don't need all of them for the strategy to work. In matter of traits try to be in Shield Line traits.

I disagree on Shield Mastery Block rating and Dance of War Evade rating... at least for now. When SoM hits and we all hit 65, they may be a little more practical, but in MoM I cap out block and evade with a single Shield Mastery, no legacy required. Sure, the partial blocks/evade bonuses are helpful, but I would hope for Celebration of Skill Healing or Safeguard Healing instead.

Originally Posted by Bowman_lp

Ettenmoors:

...

Main Hand Weapon:
_Ambush Critical Multiplier.
_Critical Strike Critical Multiplier.
_Onslaught Damage.
_Mighty Blow Damage.

Ranged Weapon:
_Ambush and Careful Step Inductions.
_Careful Step Duration.
_Determination In Combat Morale Regeneration.
_Reduced To-Hit Movement penalty for Javelin Skills.
_Forced March Max Power Penalty.

Javelin Toss range will be much more desired in SoM, as it will apply to all javelin skills. And I disagree on forced march power penalty, purely on principle.

I also think it's worth mentioning that desolation (possibly traited) and traited warcry are the bomb shiznizzle in the moors because it messes creeps up so very badly.

[ppinkham]

Originally Posted by Bowman_lp

After this lunch you'll probably not need any other threat generators skill, but if things go dificult lunch a Defiant Challenge.

Mmmmmm....lunch.

[Hudson7]

Originally Posted by Bowman_lp

Hello my fellow wardens. With this guide I'm not pretending on guiding you through the game, but to give some advices for tanking, PvMP (Ettenmoors basics) and choosing LI for both.

Tanking:

First of all, I'm not a mighty power experiensed warden, but with a lot of research in the forums, reading guides and learning through the game I realized that wardens are not just an awsome soloing class but mighty tanks too. The only thing that separates a good tank warden from being nothing, is strategy and practice.
To begin with this guide I'll say the diference between guardian and warden tanking. Guardian tanking focus in taking and resisting most of the damage, (I've never played a guardian much but I think I can tell this), also blocking but this is in second stance. Most of this is able because of guardians high armor points and morale. On the other hand, wardens as we can use medium armor, our tanking focuses not just in high block, evade and parry ratings, but also in a good combination of gambits. As a warden you must know how all gambits are built and what they do. A good combination goes from buffing skills to self-heals and threat generators. Most of the problems that wardens have in tanking is aggro management. How to achive keeping the aggro through all the fight? Easy! Almost all warden threat generators skills are through time, so take advantage of that. Example of a good threat generation strategy is: (Single boss fight)

_Precise Blow. (Avoid this skill with more than one mob)
_2 War Cries.
_Exultation of Battle.
_Conviction or Dance of War. (If you need heals use conviction)

After this lunch you'll probably not need any other threat generators skill, but if things go dificult lunch a Defiant Challenge. Well, now I know how to keep aggro, but what about keeping me alive? In the first phase of the battle, when you are trying to generate aggro, you'll need a minstrels help to live. After this initial phase you can now concentrate more in your buffs. Throwing Wall of Steel, Shield Mastery and Dance of War will increase your parry, block and evade rating and if you want you can increase your morale with some self-heals such as Restoration. Another tooltip to remember, warden's AoEs self-heals. In final bosses fights when ever needed use alts to increase your self-heals pool. On the second hand, power sometimes becomes a big issue. How to keep power up? Something I use mostly is, when ever I have a LM in my fellowship I go in Determination Stance, because if I need power I can ask him for some. When there is no power healing class in the fellowship I try to be in Conservation Stance this will save your power a bit more. Another thing you can do, though is very risky, is to tell your minstrel to let your morale go below the 50% and throw a quick The dark before Dawn, you can combine this with one or two self-heals before this to prevent any mistakes. A good combination of carvins also help this.
Finaly and not less important, how to combinate these strategies with LI weapons? Some leagacies that could improve the effectiveness of these strategies are:

Main hand Weapon (As you'll be tanking and SoM lunches there no need for a speacial type, I use Spear for the bleeding damge because most of the time I hit with auto-attack):
_War Cry Threat.
_Exultation of Battle Threat.
_Wall of Steel parry Rating.

Ranged Weapon:
_Conservation In Combat Power Regeneration
_Determination In Combat Morale Regeneration.
_Heal bonus for Conviction.
_Restoration Morale Healed.
_Shield Mastery Block Rating.
_Dance of War Evade Rating.
_Dark Before Dawn Power Restored.

You don't need all of them for the strategy to work. In matter of traits try to be in Shield Line traits.

Morcanden has some good thoughts which I mostly agree with (I don't PvP much these days, so I won't comment there)

I really think the biggest difference between wardens and guards is that guards have and need to rely on their snap agro abilities where as wardens rely on all of our over time effects.

For single mobs, war-cry and EoB are pretty painful - stick to precise blow, threat transfers, and HoTs with DoTs sprinkled in if you feel like doing some damage. For multi-mobs, I pretty much have Fierce resolve and EoB up at all times with resolutions tossed in there depending on how many mobs I have on me. This not only keeps them on me, but keeps me alive. Javelin of Deadly Force is also great for multi mobs especially on pulls as it very quickly brings everything towards you.

I've put together my thoughts on tanking gambits, legendaries, and traits (plus a bunch of other warden topics) over on my blog - take a look there as well as the sticky up top...

Tanking Gambits

Legacies and Runes

Traits

[head0nfire]

Most of this looks good, but never use WC or EoB on a single target. They eat up your power way too quickly, even by warden standards. Just stick with Precise Blow and Conviction for boss fights.

As for Dance of War, that will vary from person to person. Conviction is definitely better as an aggro skill. They both transfer the same amount of threat, but Conviction heals the fellowship which will mitigate far more damage than the evade buff from DoW. Also, DoW has an extremely long animation which makes it less efficient. As for the evade buff, both my blocking and evading are capped after shield mastery, but again, this will vary from person to person.

Other than that this is a pretty good guide. Mostly the same stuff I use too. Have fun

Also, I don't pvp much so maybe there is something I don't know... but why Forced March power for a pvp javelin? I wouldn't want to put Forced March on anywhere where there's a chance of being pounced by a warg at any time.

[Tehm]

Originally Posted by head0nfire

Also, I don't pvp much so maybe there is something I don't know... but why Forced March power for a pvp javelin? I wouldn't want to put Forced March on anywhere where there's a chance of being pounced by a warg at any time.

I need numbers on how much the legacy reduces it but I'm pretty sure this would be on my optimal pvp javelin as well. In group pvp I feel Wardens should basically play like an RK; Traited War-Cry/Desolation = a bad Vivid Imagery, Hampering Javelin = a lesser Chilling Rhetoric + Icy Discourse, Javelin chain = a really really bad Ceaseless Argument. As basically any creep will tell you, that's MORE than enough for any RK to dominate (+ pots obviously).

Ok, so maybe I should have said a "plays like a gimp RK" but RK are completely OP... Warden are probably bottom of the pack in moors, it is what it is. I digress, the point wasn't to complain, it was to point out that in moors anyways, a Warden in conservation (no point in being in dps stance, it doesn't affect jav or tactical dps. No point in being in icmr most of the time, if you're focused you're dead, if you aren't you'll never die) with good ICPR should be basically power-neutral or better playing that style of game. If you are power neutral over time then when coming out of forced march the only thing you have to be concerned with is if you have so little power coming out of march it slows down your initial burst. Plus careful step NEEDS march. =\

Just my $0.02 anyways.

[Fladrif]

Alright - so i really love playing the warden and want to make him my main.

Im great solo - easily taking on 5-6 same lvl normal mobs - Able to beat high ranked wargs and reavers in the moors blah blah blah

My problem is aggro tho.

I see you guys are saying for single targets that you only use PB and Conviction or DoW. What iv been doing tho its usually starting off with PB then brink of victory (Aggro dot) and then Surety of death then maybe a DoW but useually just repeating the aggro skills not the transfers. And well i notice a loose aggro alot to champs

So my question is - Should i be using transfers a heck of alot more? Is that better then trying to build your own aggro.

If anyone has tanked dn trolls would you mind telling how you did it? Our kin doesnt take wardens into DN, we take just 1 guard and he tanks both trolls at once - Has anyone done this on the warden?

[Fladrif]

Oh also... i feel like if i have to worry about interrupts during a fight then i REALLY have trouble with aggro. Anyone else have that problem?

Blah - also i should have said above - Im fine with grabbing aggro on multiple mobs with War cry and EoB and so on, its only single target (bosses) i have trouble with.

[lf2536]

use threat transfers, they are a great help. the BoV line does light damage, it doesn't generate threat other then weapon and damage threat. on a single target: PB, PB, PB, Conviction, PB, PB, Conviction will have a single target locked on you at which point you can start throwing in interupts, self buffs and HoTs and what ever else you think is needed atm, of course, you should continue building threat aswell.

also, using Maddening Strike and Conviction while tanking mutliple mobs. threat transfers are a Warden's best friend.

[Bowman_lp]

Originally Posted by Fladrif

So my question is - Should i be using transfers a heck of alot more? Is that better then trying to build your own aggro.

Yes you should!

[geoboy]

As was posted above, once you're locked in you're more free to interrupt, DPS and self-heal. For single targets I don't bother with anything but pb and DoW/Conviction for threat.

[Morcanden]

Originally Posted by Fladrif

So my question is - Should i be using transfers a heck of alot more? Is that better then trying to build your own aggro.

Threat transfers won't really feel like they pay off after the first 30 or 40 seconds or so of fighting, compared to PBs.

Originally Posted by Fladrif

If anyone has tanked dn trolls would you mind telling how you did it? Our kin doesnt take wardens into DN, we take just 1 guard and he tanks both trolls at once - Has anyone done this on the warden?

I've tanked both trolls at the same time. For the first 10 or 15 seconds, establish good aggro by spamming PBs, alternating between trolls. Pop off a conviction at this point, followed by a shield mastery. Congratulations, you have established good initial aggro. Assuming your party is going to work on one troll at a time (there ARE raids that do both at the same time, which seems nuts), there's a bit of knowledge required to succeed at warden tanking this fight.

After you've established aggro, you can't be idle or work on DPS... well, not yet anyway. Your job is threat. Here's some fine points on the DN trolls:

1) PB establishes threat on your target! Despite the confusing nature of the twins' damage transfers, this primary single-target raw threat skill works on your target, not on the opposite target.

2) You're still going to be beating on the troll that the rest of the raid is also targeting for the majority of the fight after you've established aggro. The reason for this is relatively simple - troll A will eventually need to stop taking damage (or it will buff the heck up) so that you can kill troll B and still have a fighting chance of beating troll A after B is dead.

Here's the finer point (assuming you're tanking both): If you're hitting troll B, and therefore troll A is taking damage from the entire raid, but you can't hit troll A because it's really close to that health line where the anger script triggers, you still need to hold aggro on troll A somehow. So how do you establish threat on something you can't hit while beating on something you can? You guessed it. For the majority of this fight, you will need to transfer threat from your party using conviction and dance of war (or even maddening strike i suppose). You should consciously check and make sure you have 2 or 3 heavy damage dealers in your fellowship so you have plenty of threat to steal and keep ahead of the other fellowship. Throwing out a PB once in a while is probably a good idea too, especially toward the beginning and end of the fight, but it may just be overkill toward the end if you've established good aggro at the beginning and throughout the middle with PBs and threat transfers.

3) Before the final phase, find a wall to stand by. Starting the mushroom phase in the middle of the room will probably kill either your raid or yourself, and quite possibly both. It is very important that you know when Troll B is almost dead so you can make sure to move. Finding and hugging a wall reduces the total area covered by the acid clouds the mushrooms produce.

4) If you do feel the need for variety beyond threat generation, Shield Mastery and Wall of Steel are good choices to spice things up and still be doing your job.

[Morcanden]

I should also mention that during the transition to the final phase where Troll B dies and all that's left is troll A, I always seem to take an inordinate amount of damage. You should have a captain pop last stand, and have your healers spam healing you during that transition. After the transition it should settle back into a rhythm. Just back out of any mushroom clouds until the debuff icon disappears and you're home free!

[.Spartan]

Originally Posted by Morcanden

Javelin Toss range will be much more desired in SoM, as it will apply to all javelin skills. And I disagree on forced march power penalty, purely on principle.

I also think it's worth mentioning that desolation (possibly traited) and traited warcry are the bomb shiznizzle in the moors because it messes creeps up so very badly.

Sage advice that is....

[burgleburgleburgle]

A note: After EOB and WC threat, the most useful legacy on a tanking weapon is Wages of Fear Positional Damage.

As a good tank, you should be turning mobs away from the party, so that their attacks don't get blocked/parried, and they don't get hit by AOEs.

In the event that you lose aggro, a mob will be running away from you. The best tool you have to get it back on you is Wages of Fear - you don't have to move, it's instant, and it does a truckload of damage. Either it will get aggro back, or make it significantly easier for the squishy to kill the thing before dying.

An extra 13% (...is this how much it is?) damage (and therefore threat) on Wages of Fear is extremely useful for tanking. Also, for PVP.