Game Sys: Tavern Larders

[Hayoo]

Introduction

Tavern Larders provide players with a mechanic to directly sell their wares in lore-appropriate locations apart from the Auction Halls. Rather than propagate the ubiquitous AH itself to small villages and camps, each Tavernkeep has a tab in their Buy window specifically for Player-Crafted food and drink.

There are several features that separate the Tavernkeep's Crafted Food option from Auction Halls.

• Each tavern has quests for two crafted foods and one crafted drink. The type varies by location.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• Players may fill these crafting orders for a reward of Reputation with that location (See Tavern Reputation). A bit of coin and XP are also an option.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• Players may post other types of food if they wish, but they do not get Rep for posting. Other players do get rep for buying these foods from the vendor (players will not be rewarded for buying back their own posted wares).
  
  
• Filled orders are stored up with the Tavernkeep as a limited resource. Once it runs out, more orders must be filled. An option is to put posts on a timer, but that depends on how often players fill up the larder. The Rep Quests are geared toward encouraging this.
  
  
  
• As you can see, the price of the Vendor-sold goods are somewhat fixed, just like the regular vendor items. To stay competitive with the markets, and give incentive for Players to post items in the wild, the price is an Average Weekly Cost for that item. The vendor looks at the average auction price of an item for the week, throwing out the cheapest and the most expensive, then he averages this tally with the cost of materials and an additional amount to account for labor.
  
  (The idea is to keep the price steady but allow for shallow fluctuations to imitate economic forces. It is also to prevent players from just milking the system. Whether this method suggested here succeeds is debatable. One fear is that the Prancing Pony or Estaldin, being a convenient locations along travel routes will be saturated with such goods with players hardly seeing their wares sold and so requiring some kind of post duration like the AH. While an out of the way camp, like Orthrikar, may see shortages, being less frequented. Increased Rep rewards and additional number of such quests may help.)

Larders vs. Auction Halls

Larders stay competitive with AH prices (in theory) by:

• being further from the Halls and more conveniently closer to adventure.
• They reward you for posting certain foods in one location but not another.
• If you factor in Tavern Revelries, then you allow players to sell Revelry food and drink directly to players in the Taverns and gathering halls.

Larders keep from negating Auction Halls by:

• being further away from hub cities,
• catering to just one niche of crafted items,
• prices are kept more steady so profit margins are more predictable,
• players are limited in the number of posts they can make (and indeed may share their posting limit with the Auction Halls if needs be)

Conclusion

While I admit this idea may not be a popular one and may require a few more incentives to actually be used enthusiastically, the idea of Player Vendors intrigued me, so I came up with one way they could be accomplished while empowering the social areas of the game.

Please note that the images are just mockups. They only exist to help carry the concept across and any numbers or amounts shown are more than likely arbitrary filler.

Other Concepts in the Tavern Series

Tavern Reputation
Tavern Revelries

[Gumawerian]

I have seen a number of threads on the suggestion thread with similar ideas that I found to be of note, so I felt I should be one to post my acknowledgements here:


Player-run shops area decent idea, given that they function in a manner similar to the AH without the bidding wars that accustomed to common items that are regularly bought and sold. Even having shops alone would be a great idea -- but I think this one is particularly worthy of discussion.

I also have a small something to add: since foods (and particularly ales) have no current use aside from role-playing purposes (ales have no impact on combat aside from graphic effects) why not allow players to start making their own? I saw a player rename his own beverages on the trade channel and admittedly it added a bit of flavour to the sale (no pun harmfully intended). So seeing a "Fredegar's Famous Blueberry Ale" or a "Tolifred's Grand-master Stout" might be a very interesting (and harmlessly fun) thing to see.

[Hayoo]

Originally Posted by Gumawerian

I also have a small something to add: since foods (and particularly ales) have no current use aside from role-playing purposes (ales have no impact on combat aside from graphic effects) why not allow players to start making their own? I saw a player rename his own beverages on the trade channel and admittedly it added a bit of flavour to the sale (no pun harmfully intended). So seeing a "Fredegar's Famous Blueberry Ale" or a "Tolifred's Grand-master Stout" might be a very interesting (and harmlessly fun) thing to see.

I don't see why not, especially if they did not add something like Revelries (which would give drinks a purpose) but did for some reason allow for player vendors of some kind, then I think labeling RP stuff for sale wouldn't do any harm.

[Strider5548]

Agree with the idea, agree with being able to name drinks..agree with it all.

This sounds like a very fun extra thing to add into the game. It would go along very nicely with revelries and reputation in taverns. Unfortunately I have to be pessimistic when it comes to things like this, 20 some odd pages of positive replies for tavern revelries and still nothing. That isn't to say I don't love your posts Hayoo, I really hope you keep pouring out more ideas, maybe eventually the devs will get the picture.

/signed

[MataTahu]

Another capital post Hayoo.

/signed

[Sarcasmo]

Why is Hayoo so awesome? Circle all that apply.

1. Because his momma done made him that way.
2. Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of how awesome he is.
3. Stop, collaborate and listen. Ice is back with my brand new invention.
4. He's obviously one of the devs whose ideas were shot down in the Thunderdome.
5. You'd be awesome too if you snorted that much coke.

[Gumawerian]

Originally Posted by Sarcasmo

Why is Hayoo so awesome? Circle all that apply.

1. Because his momma done made him that way.
2. Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of how awesome he is.
3. Stop, collaborate and listen. Ice is back with my brand new invention.
4. He's obviously one of the devs whose ideas were shot down in the Thunderdome.
5. You'd be awesome too if you snorted that much coke.

[1] I don't know Hayoo's mother, just that great ideas come from great fostering.
[2] I could be deaf and still know these ideas are worth discussing.
[3] For a moment there, I thought you actually meant "collaborate with each other on the forums" which doesn't always happen... :P
[4] Who would shoot down these ideas without at least having some alternative like itin the game?
[5] I know a multitude of people who would not be this awesome, whatever drugs you come up with giving them.

*Gumawerian does not endorse coke references in other peoples threads -- this is for discussion, not off-shooting flame-war tangents!

[bigo2mags]

I like the idea, but I have a question:

In the spirit of keeping things balanced among the professions, what would the Explorer, Metalsmith, Weaponsmith, etc. have similar to this? People of other professions would undoubtedly say that the reward for XP and coin is nice, but unbalanced for them. Would there me armor and weapon traders that have a similar function?

[Hayoo]

Originally Posted by bigo2mags

I like the idea, but I have a question:

In the spirit of keeping things balanced among the professions, what would the Explorer, Metalsmith, Weaponsmith, etc. have similar to this? People of other professions would undoubtedly say that the reward for XP and coin is nice, but unbalanced for them. Would there me armor and weapon traders that have a similar function?

Thanks, Bigo.

Yes, this mechanic could be adapted to allow metalsmiths, weaponsmiths, and such to place their wares in a Crafted tab to local vendors.

As is, the concept does allow anyone to recieve reputation, coin, and other rewards with the Tavern by simply filling the order (whether they cooked the food themselves, got it from an alt or friend, or bought it off auction), as well as buying anything from that vendor.

[Gumawerian]

Originally Posted by bigo2mags

I like the idea, but I have a question:

In the spirit of keeping things balanced among the professions, what would the Explorer, Metalsmith, Weaponsmith, etc. have similar to this? People of other professions would undoubtedly say that the reward for XP and coin is nice, but unbalanced for them. Would there me armor and weapon traders that have a similar function?

I believe the current reputation system already has this problem -- cooks, for example, are capable of raising their reputation with the 'Mathom Society' by cooking certain dishes. Then again, it seems appropriate that cooks garner this reputation bonus because they're cooks, and we all know how popular those are in the Shire.

Nevertheless, I'd like to see other ideas implemented to aid these other professions, bearing in mind, however, that they already have certain balancing issues that need to be worked out as a whole.

[Spikyc]

Originally Posted by Gumawerian

I believe the current reputation system already has this problem -- cooks, for example, are capable of raising their reputation with the 'Mathom Society' by cooking certain dishes. Then again, it seems appropriate that cooks garner this reputation bonus because they're cooks, and we all know how popular those are in the Shire.

Nevertheless, I'd like to see other ideas implemented to aid these other professions, bearing in mind, however, that they already have certain balancing issues that need to be worked out as a whole.

I like this idea, Hayoo
Gumawerian, I believe almost profession can raise their reputation with a certain faction by crafting for that faction. I know woodworkers, scholars, weaponsmiths, jewelers, and cooks all have their own factions.

[Gumawerian]

Originally Posted by spikycentaur

I like this idea, Hayoo
Gumawerian, I believe almost profession can raise their reputation with a certain faction by crafting for that faction. I know woodworkers, scholars, weaponsmiths, jewelers, and cooks all have their own factions.

...point made -- although I think it depends on the faction. Hobbits tend to favour cooks more than dwarves do, after all -- not that it isn't for good reason. I'd say all these ideas for Taverns might lead to something more -- but for now, I don't think it's unbalancing to see the Larders stocked up with goods.

[Hluill]

Another awesome suggestion, and well presented too. Thanks for all the hard work.

Originally Posted by bigo2mags

I like the idea, but I have a question:

In the spirit of keeping things balanced among the professions, what would the Explorer, Metalsmith, Weaponsmith, etc. have similar to this? People of other professions would undoubtedly say that the reward for XP and coin is nice, but unbalanced for them. Would there me armor and weapon traders that have a similar function?

As do others, I would love to see this. It would give my weaponsmith a reason to make those hundred swords he going to need to make to fill that next anvil. And wouldn't the adventure be fun for him to have to deliver them to Ost Forod or Esteldin or even Gabilshathur?

[Fredigar]

Mwahaha.... my rampage continues...

This is just as good an idea as Tavern Reputation and minigames, so I think it needs to keep getting attention. I don't care what changes need to be made; I just want to see something done! I don't want to miss out on anymore of the livliness that could be happening right now in Middle-earth.

/signed!

[Linduin]

Originally Posted by Gumawerian

...since foods (and particularly ales) have no current use aside from role-playing purposes...

Superior Lembas:
Non-Combat: +42.7 power +55.4 morale
In-Combat: 163 morale/30secs for 300 secs, 123 power/30secs for 300 secs

Food, it's for more than roleplaying!

Also, for non cooks, Lembas can be made entirely from vendor bought components (unlike most other foods) and costs 168 silver per stack of 15 to make.

On my server Lembas normally sells for 200sp, 250sp buyout, so a minimum of 32sp profit. After several average weeks, I guess it would cost the same at a Tavern (though still be made by players). If the AH supply was mostly bought out (I've seen it entirely bought out) then the normal economic policy of supply and demand couldn't apply, a player couldn't then place his lembas on sale for say 300sp, 350sp buyout, without knowing just how much was on offer at taverns around the world still at the previously cheaper average. It sounds more realistic economically with an interaction between local and global markets, but it would disadvantage cooks, as other crafters get to see the entire global market before they price their goods. Basically the market for cooks would lag the actual demand, unless the cook used his profits (and maybe more) to travel about to many taverns to see what the stock levels were like.

Also by taking just the highest and lowest out of the averaging equation could still lead to heavy market manipulation. There will come a time when the majority of the cooks have full tavern rep, and so there is little need for them to run about visit all the Taverns that buy/sell Lembas. I could place extremely high prices and self buy (or have alts buy), there would be little loss, comparative to the fact the local prices would be high (avg sale price) and the AH would be market/player run and doesn't care about non-listed old buy prices or averages. The system shouldn't just discard the highest and lowest and assume they're the only anomalies, possibly starting with only working within one standard deviation of the entire 'sale price' data set and then, well it would get complex. I'm not saying it's a bad idea at all, but it would turn pricing of essential foods like Lembas into a nightmare for many and allow those that are better at such things to profiteer - of course that goes on now, but under the current system it's less exclusive.

All of these issues can be solved of course, but I'd bet Turbine, having spent so much time trying to get the economy right, would be cautious in adding a system that could unbalance it, especially one that can't be truely tested until it goes to a live server - the purchasing patterns on the test server not being a true reflection of what goes on with a live server.

I'm all for more complex market/AH economics though, so...

/signed