Thread: AddOns for lotro

Any game that won't support addons is seriously behind the "game" IMO. You may like WOW or you may hate it but you cannot deny that beeing able to custumize your ui to your tastes, your preferences, your desires is better than not beeing able to.

Here are some examples:

- Inventory logger for your account - LOTRO seems to me made with alts in mind and this means having gear, resources, stuff scaterred all over. A way to know what you have and where is nice and usefull.

- Comba logs make designers work better because ppl will find out their screw-ups. They allow ppl to have a clearer understanding of how things work.

- Unit frames just as I want them!

- Mass mail!

- Macros!

Plus having addons makes a community more active, more aware and more interested in the game. OFC Blizzard has had to revise and alter what they allow and what they don't allow in WOW, but hell they've done it and you can learn from them.

Originally Posted by Lovecraft1778

Keeping up to date with 1-4 addons is not a big time sink, and shouldn't bother too many people. I doubt too many addons will become "required" within the first 6-8 months of them being released, so all those fears of HAVING to have certain addons shouldn't be a factor for a long time.... and even then there won't be many REQUIRED.

I know this was on page one, but i wanted to quibble with this a little bit.

let's get real....nobody *ever* only had 1-4 addons in WoW.

I'm not a hardcore raider at all, and I had upwards of 50 addons working at any given time.

Originally Posted by Nishino

Regarding Warhammer Online:
Jeff Hickman, Senior Producer: Currently we do have plans for a fully functional and modifiable User Interface that we will be coordinating with the modding community to use. Our UI will be completely customizable and able to look and feel exactly as a player may want. In regards to other types of art within the game, we do not currently have any plans to allow players to modify the in-game art (characters, world, etc...).

(http://interviews.slashdot.org/artic.../11/27/1752236)

So? I don't see where I'm wrong. There is nothing in your quote saying otherwise

Originally Posted by Nishino

Also Regarding Warhammer Online:
The most interesting tidbit that I was able to pull from Carrie (Associate Producer of EA Mythic) regarded the in-game interface. The powerful Lua-driven interface of WoW has led to some great user-created content that has fundamentally changed the way players raid, and Carrie let me know that Warhammer would indeed be following the same route as Blizzard.

(http://arstechnica.com/journals/thum...rhammer-online)

That's the issue, mods in this way do change the gameplay and it become a nightmare for the devs to maintain the game. Either you oblige players to use the mods or you give an edge to the few people that use them. There is no way to balance the game.

Originally Posted by Xaquin

Even if the addons were mandatory, it only takes about 60 seconds on Curse and you're done.

they aren't hard at all.

I never stated it was difficult or time consuming. And I agree curse is a nice one, but I'd rather use many single addons to fit my needs. I'm the other one with 50+ addons

Mods arent mandatory AT ALL.

The default UI is poor. Open it up to modders, and Turbine can steal the better ideas and put them in the default UI. Everyone wins.

Originally Posted by Arnwalden

That's the issue, mods in this way do change the gameplay and it become a nightmare for the devs to maintain the game. Either you oblige players to use the mods or you give an edge to the few people that use them. There is no way to balance the game.

The way things are set up right now there isn't a single mod that gives anyone an 'unfair' advantage over someone not using mods. It just isn't possible.

But anyways, how would you define an unfair advantage? A mod performing automated actions and making decisions instead of the player?

Completely impossible in WoW. Automated actions were never possible to begin with, and scripts that made decisions were removed with the UI changes in Burning Crusade.

Mods arent mandatory AT ALL.

The default UI is poor. Open it up to modders, and Turbine can steal the better ideas and put them in the default UI. Everyone wins.

And we have a winner!

Originally Posted by Mithrandas

The way things are set up right now there isn't a single mod that gives anyone an 'unfair' advantage over someone not using mods. It just isn't possible.

Not a question of being fair or unfair, it's just not equal so not balanced.

Originally Posted by Mithrandas

But anyways, how would you define an unfair advantage? A mod performing automated actions and making decisions instead of the player?

Completely impossible in WoW. Automated actions were never possible to begin with, and scripts that made decisions were removed with the UI changes in Burning Crusade.

Hmm... decursive?

Originally Posted by Arnwalden

Not a question of being fair or unfair, it's just not equal so not balanced.

Everyone has access to them. If they choose not to use them it's their own problem. And since none actually play the game for you, or make decisions for you, there are no balance concerns at all.

Originally Posted by Arnwalden

Hmm... decursive?

We can argue if Decursive was 'cheating' all we want. I personally think it was not. But it's pointless anyway, since Decursive doesn't exist anymore.

Originally Posted by Mithrandas

Everyone has access to them. If they choose not to use them it's their own problem.

May I disagree, it's not like you are using your bare hands when you could use a big nasty weapon to kite mobs. It's about not using 3d party items.

That doesn't even come with the game and aren't either supported by Turbine.

Originally Posted by Arnwalden

May I disagree, it's not like you are using your bare hands when you could use a big nasty weapon to kite mobs. It's about not using 3d party items.

That doesn't even come with the game and aren't either supported by Turbine.

What I'm asking for here is for us to have a scripting language, and a level of interface costumization, similar to what WoW has. The whole point of mods is that they are not part of the default interface, but all the tools needed to make them work do indeed come with the basic game. This allows individual players to customize their interface to satisfy their specific needs instead of having to use the same interface as everyone else. When it comes to WoW mods everyone is exactly in the same footing, you can choose to use the default interface, or you can choose to use the tools provided by the developers to improve it.

There's a huge difference between 3rd party applications and mods.

I wrote addons for WoW. I wrote LUA script macros for WoW.

I can't imagine why LOTRO is taking as long to learn the lessons other games went through as those games did. WoW re-organized its ah recipe section by skill over a year ago; LOTRO should have seen that they made that change (and other ah changes) and implemented them out of the game, not in chapter 10/11. When Turbine realizes that rp servers really are necessary, I hope they take some solace in the many posts from Blizzard claiming they wouldn't be needed... right up until they implemented them.

Some form of macros, scripting, or addons is a huge source of fun for players. The default UI for *every* game is minimally functional. The current level of macros (one slash command per shortcut, just to save typing) is below even CoH/CoV's level of extensibility (and I never thought I'd say that). The current level of skinning is getting *much* better (thank you Turbine!!) but still lacking (I want to make a skin with the F-key command to select a user by every member of my fellowship, so I can get to them faster to heal).

As an rper, I want script to say something when I cast certain spells^H^H^H^H^H^Hskills (preferably not every time). I want buttons/hotkeys that do reasonable things based on some circumstance (healing myself if my target is dead, rather than giving me an error message). I want to queue up common sequences of actions based on my intent, rather than my details (which I find more in keeping with the source material), such as cast Call of the Second Age and cancel War Speech, maybe queuing up a cast of Chord of Salvation.

I want script that equips/unequips weapons. I do switch weapons in combat, primarily on my Champion (grabbing a shield, turning off Fervor, maybe hitting my horn, and running away, for example). You can't equip an off-hand weapon without dragging to the paper doll.

I want UI mods that change layout as well as just graphics (I want debuffs and buffs sorted separately and not moving around all the time; I want timers on certain minstrel buffs like ballad level; I want my health displayed in a manner consistent with party health so I can glance down and know if *I'm* wounded as well as if my fellowship is).

And I don't want to wait for Turbine to prioritize these and devote the resources to them, as opposed to making some interesting instances.

Someone complained that certain WoW mods are considered "essential" (by raiding groups, something that isn't an issue in LOTRO). In every case, that's market research for Blizzard. They've implemented the functionality of essential mods into the base UI, allowing those who don't want to bother with mods to get the same functionality. Sometimes it's been a major UI change (raiding UI added most of the useful functionality of the major raid mod) and in other cases it's just been slash commands or LUA object access (the major Druid shapeshift mods are now re-creatable with simple slash commands).

Some people get overwhelmed with mods. That is because they get pressure to install too many. Making macro-able actions is better for that reason. Some people abuse mods and macros. That is a constant process of learning, but it really only affects them and their groups.

But Turbine has been slow to catch up to the last two years of lessons in other games. A few macro or addon options will give us an escape valve for major game annoyances and for idiosyncratic desires.

My main macro desires are
- Put two or more commands on one button/hotkey.
- At a minimum, put a /say or /tell in with using a skill
- Next request would be toggle a skill plus queue another
- a /useskill command (to support the first request)
- Equip/unequip items (for shielding-up or returning to dw in combat, and for disarming in town/in my house, and for wearing a performing outfit while playing music)
- Enough conditionals to heal myself if my target is dead and use a skill based on a toggle

My main add-on desires
- Activate certain abilities at log-on (/chatlog on, /rp on, enable toggles)
- Record dps/hps over time (that might be doable by parsing a combat log, but see next item)
- Fix up the combat log to have real data and detail. Many skills are just lost in the log (such as Champion multi-attack skills)
- More buttons (I need a music bar, a dance bar, ... )
- Better emote popup menu (!)
- Easier mail management
- Easier repeatable quest turnin (turning in 50 honey-roasted chickens this week has been painful)
- Better crafting management (what do I have mats for, what mats do I need)
- Notes on the friends list (!!)
- Auto-handle roll/pass (pass on hides, roll on anything I can equip, roll Need on recipes I can learn, etc.)

These aren't things Turbine is likely to be working on (well, maybe some... usability is behind other games in many areas). Please give me a way to add them.

Part of me wants to have add-on options, and the other part of me remembers how some times i would run out of time to play WOW cause i had been messing with the darn add-ons for so long. And patch days where even more fun!

Originally Posted by fidjit

Part of me wants to have add-on options, and the other part of me remembers how some times i would run out of time to play WOW cause i had been messing with the darn add-ons for so long. And patch days where even more fun!

The time I saved using inventory mods was easily worth the upkeep.

Originally Posted by fidjit

Part of me wants to have add-on options, and the other part of me remembers how some times i would run out of time to play WOW cause i had been messing with the darn add-ons for so long. And patch days where even more fun!

All I did on patch days was press a button on my WoWAceupdater.

I just want to be able to export my character gear and stats, would make it so much easier for comparisons with others of my class. Instead stuck with screenshots and alot of pen and paper.

The major complaint I have with the UI (other than not being able to move the taskbar around) is how it is built around FPS interfaces. I know we're all used to that, but it really does work best when 'skills' are limited to, say, 10-12. LOTRO just has too many freaking skills that you need, and need quickly, for key combinations and quickbars to work well. As I've watched these games develop, I can't help but remember the rout Word Perfect took... a program known at one time for contortionist-finger-skills to get anything done. And that was when you weren't using one hand on the mouse and the other on WASD to fight nasty critters.

It doesn't help that the current UI consists of several generations of code. Some things can be moved and resized. Others can only be resized. Still others can be rotated, others can't. (I'd love to make the pet quick bar vertical...). Many tool bars are only accessible only with the mouse. Some windows will take Enter for yes, others only take input from the mouse. And what's with that bloody release window being unmovable? From all appearances, the UI is a mess, with blocks of code from different sources, all customized, and probably no one person at turbine with intimate knowledge of all of them. And only 5 quick bars? Don't forget the clunky help browser. The AH window is a bastion of hope compared to that thing. Before we ever see any scripting, all that will have to be cleaned up. It's going to take some major dev hours.

But...

If a scriptable UI gave me the ability to implement key sequencing in addition to key combinations I would be all for it for that reason alone. Customizable menus in combination with key sequences can be amazingly fast. Fast enough you don't mind moving fingers from WASD or the mouse for 1/10th a second. Sequencing was the strong point of programs such as datacad, cabinet vision, and even autocad (though once autodesk moved to windows, most users didn't realize sequencing existed). As an example, I could use sequencing in cabinet vision to enter thousands of 'elements/commands' in minutes. Most homeowners wouldn't appreciate the fact it took me ten minutes to create the plans for their 50K$ customized kitchens, but my boss sure did.

Another thing I'd love would be to move various information outside the main graphics window. But then, I play LOTRO in window mode (for some reason it works better with my system: 2.6ghzHT, nv7800 agp, 3gb ram; client runs great at 1280x1024 with high video settings, my only stutters are on disk access). Be so nice to have all that stuff cluttering the graphics window moved somewhere else... The major one being the chat window taking up 1/6th my client window. It's already the red-headed step child of a irc client. Might as well make it a real chat client (encrypted/authed tinyfuge + tinymux backend would be a heck of a good combination, wouldn't take long at all to nix gold-spam and for RPers: A huge improvement).

Some of these things could be done with mods, some never. Some is better handled by Turbine, some could probably be better implemented by the community. Most of what I'd want will never be seen. (Sigh. I miss GTK tear-offs.)

As for the Mod-vs-AnitMod debate... You want real flame wars, look at vi vs emacs.

I think I have so dated myself with this post...

-w

just a slightly snarky observation

this thread, and this whole "Addons vs. No Addons" argument in this forum reeks of people who want everything that WoW gave them, without actually having to play WoW.

"I hate WoW, it sucks....but hey, can we have all of *insert Features from WoW* in this game too?"

have your cake and eat it too, eh?

Originally Posted by MrMadisonIV

just a slightly snarky observation

this thread, and this whole "Addons vs. No Addons" argument in this forum reeks of people who want everything that WoW gave them, without actually having to play WoW.

"I hate WoW, it sucks....but hey, can we have all of *insert Features from WoW* in this game too?"

have your cake and eat it too, eh?

Why shouldn't we want the features from WoW that are actually good? I mean, I'm playing LoTRO instead of WoW mostly because I'm enjoying the quest content more, but there's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't have a UI that's at least as good as the one WoW has.

Originally Posted by Arnwalden

Not a question of being fair or unfair, it's just not equal so not balanced.



Hmm... decursive?

Actually there were mods that were very close to automated... I do not remember the names, but there were mode that all you had to do was hit one button and it would attack for you and continue changing attacks as the fight warrented. Especially for rogues.

Originally Posted by Mithrandas

Why shouldn't we want the features from WoW that are actually good? I mean, I'm playing LoTRO instead of WoW mostly because I'm enjoying the quest content more, but there's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't have a UI that's at least as good as the one WoW has.

thing is..

WoW's UI isn't good. that's why it is open, and why addons are absolutely necessary for everything.

eh, i don't mind either way. just as long as the game community does not degenerate to the point where you HAVE to have *insert specified list of addons*, or else.

the only two addons i can think of that I would even remotely care about for this game are Clique and SimpleCombatLog. and maybe auctioneer. maybe.

but once it gets to the point where i have to have 60 addons and I have to have an addon to produce every simple game function(because the default UI is so bad) , like i did in WoW, then I get concerned.

as it is right now, I'm pretty happy with the LOTRO Default Interface, and I think the arguing comes from WoW players who want every other game to be like WoW so that they don't have to actually play WoW to get what they want. that's just my own personal opinion though.

next, once they open the Interface and you folks get what you want, we'll move on to the gameplay forums and start asking when we'll be able to raid Sauron, because WoW lets you kill the main story characters.

Originally Posted by rogerwroten

Actually there were mods that were very close to automated... I do not remember the names, but there were mode that all you had to do was hit one button and it would attack for you and continue changing attacks as the fight warrented. Especially for rogues.

there definitely was one for rogues.

also one for warriors too.

and one for healers, that automatically picked the spell and level of spell that was most appropriate for you. all you did was hit a "heal" hotkey, and the addon did the rest.

Originally Posted by MrMadisonIV

there definitely was one for rogues.

also one for warriors too.

and one for healers, that automatically picked the spell and level of spell that was most appropriate for you. all you did was hit a "heal" hotkey, and the addon did the rest.

They all stopped working with the major scripting changes in TBC. The main reason for the changes was actually those warrior and rogue mods you talked about, much more than Decursive and the heal mods.

Originally Posted by MrMadisonIV

thing is..

WoW's UI isn't good. that's why it is open, and why addons are absolutely necessary for everything.

eh, i don't mind either way. just as long as the game community does not degenerate to the point where you HAVE to have *insert specified list of addons*, or else.

the only two addons i can think of that I would even remotely care about for this game are Clique and SimpleCombatLog. and maybe auctioneer. maybe.

but once it gets to the point where i have to have 60 addons and I have to have an addon to produce every simple game function(because the default UI is so bad) , like i did in WoW, then I get concerned.

as it is right now, I'm pretty happy with the LOTRO Default Interface, and I think the arguing comes from WoW players who want every other game to be like WoW so that they don't have to actually play WoW to get what they want. that's just my own personal opinion though.

next, once they open the Interface and you folks get what you want, we'll move on to the gameplay forums and start asking when we'll be able to raid Sauron, because WoW lets you kill the main story characters.

Nonsense. There isn't a single addon in WoW that is required. And right now the default UI is pretty good, at least as good as the one we have here. Part of the reason why the UI there is good right now is because they allowed mods, learned from them and later introduced some of the widespread ones into the default UI.

By not allowing the same degree of costumization, Turbine is making a huge mistake. It takes considerably longer for UI functions to get implemented, if they get implemented at all. With a customizable UI, the users can decide what they want and need from their UI, and implement it themselves. It's a win-win situation. Users don't need to wait for features, Turbine gets a huge 'workforce' coding the UI for them.

And of course I want LoTRO's UI to be like the one in WoW. Why shouldn't anyone want that? The one they have is clearly superior.

Originally Posted by MrMadisonIV

just a slightly snarky observation

this thread, and this whole "Addons vs. No Addons" argument in this forum reeks of people who want everything that WoW gave them, without actually having to play WoW.

"I hate WoW, it sucks....but hey, can we have all of *insert Features from WoW* in this game too?"

have your cake and eat it too, eh?

Not I... I've never played WoW. Heck, I've never even seen it played.

--w

Useful, informational, and optional addons I don't mind.

The problem with WoW addons is they got to a point where a few were required to join a guild or group with others. The ease of installation, performance impact, configuration, ongoing maintenance, updates, and other basic problems with addons weren't at issue. The fact that NOT having those few addons left you at a significant disadvantage, or outcast from ever grouping, made them a big problem.

While there's a few UI tweaks I wouldn't mind seeing in LOTRO to suit my playstyle better, I wouldn't want a particular set of 'tweaks' to become mandatory to play the game. LOTRO is so much more enjoyable because everyone has the same relatively limited UI. Gameplay is up to the actual player, rather than a set of scripts making gameplay decisions popping up automated prompts for the player to blindly click on. The players in LOTRO have a chance to think, react, and be part of the game rather than just playing whack-a-mole while watching TV.

If they don't want to open the floodgates then they should do as others have said here, look at what was really popular and incorporate them.

I'm particularly missing the ability to mark my map. That seems ridiculous to me as it is the whole point of a map. heh.

We also seriously need some help with the AH (again as others have said here). I see price ranges going all over the place because people don't want to have to manually search and compare for everything they want to sell.

Surely things like these can't be that hard for them to code in if mod makers were able to?

Cheers.

Is zExplorer for LotRO condoned by Turbine?

Originally Posted by Xanthe

Is zExplorer for LotRO condoned by Turbine?

I'd never heard of that, so had to look it up.

From the looks of it, though, I don't think Turbine would have a problem with it. It's essentially the same thing as the maps on MEHQ, Arda Online, or their own LotRO Google maps, only it's a Windows application rather than web-based.

If it interacted directly with the LotRO client, then there'd be a problem.

Maybe Turbine is actively refusing to do anything to LotRO that Blizzard did to make WoW successful...

Time to take a closer look at WAR, I think.

The difference between the WoW AH interface with Auctioneer and the LotRO AH interface is like the difference between a sports car and a Go Cart.

I would like to see the UI include coordinates. It is really helpful to me when getting around.

I do not want to ever see non-turbine add-ons for Lotro.
Not for myself, and not for anyone else.
If the game 'needs' something to make gameplay better, players should petition Turbine to add the functionality. If Turbine feels it is worthwhile, and fits in with their intent of the game, then we will get it. Else we won't and didn't need it either.

I am firm on this, and no points of debate will change my view.

Originally Posted by brahmabull75

Maybe Turbine is actively refusing to do anything to LotRO that Blizzard did to make WoW successful...

Time to take a closer look at WAR, I think.

The difference between the WoW AH interface with Auctioneer and the LotRO AH interface is like the difference between a sports car and a Go Cart.

When it comes to the UI, it sure looks like they are.

Originally Posted by LethalBlade

While, at first, I thought the add-ons for WoW were cool, after a while there were so many, it became ridiculous.

Simple answer:
Don't use them! Really, very simple. Who cares if there are 'so many addons', if you don't like them, don't use them.

Originally Posted by LethalBlade

Some were considered necessary, and people would not group/raid with you unless you used them.

BS
Blizzard has never considered any 'addon' necessary. If your guild/group/raid does, well, then find another one. Pretty simple!

Originally Posted by LethalBlade

Not to mention that they had to be constantly updated with every new patch.

2 second fix, thank you WowAce!

Originally Posted by LethalBlade

Turbine should certainly keep on improving the UI, but screw the user made add-ons. They are not necessary.

Requiring Turbine to keep up with massive user requests (I have a crapton myself) would be just insane. That would take time away from developing content for the game, which I'd MUCH rather see than 'interfaces' or addons.

Originally Posted by Mithrandas

I also come from WoW, and if you take a look at the setup I currently use for that, there probably isn't a single element remaining from the original UI.

I'm the same way any more

Originally Posted by Mithrandas

Having played LotRO for a few days now, I come to realize that there really isn't anything I actually miss to the point of negatively impacting my gameplay

Oh, I can think of a few:

• Cartographer (LOTR mapping sucks , quite seriously)
• Auctioneer (I know you added it, but I am anyways )
• Fubar & associated addons (God I love seeing all kinds of data and knowing how to deal with it)
• Mass Mail!
• Advanced Tradeskill (saves me a LOT of time)
• SpamMeNot
• UI Reload (sometimes you just gotta reload the UI to resolve problems)

I'm sure more will pop up, but those are just the most 'missed' (and I haven't left WoW yet )

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

Actually there are a lot of people that are totally opposed to any third party modification to the clients of these games. They consider all such mods cheating. They get very upset

Cry me a frickin river. If someone considers a 'mod' cheating, they have no clue what a legal 'mod' is. No 'legal' mod is CHEATING at all.

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

They feel the addons give unfair advantages to the add on users.

Unfair? Yeah, right. There is no 'unfair advantage' to a mod. If you want it, grab it. If you don't, don't. Not a bit of 'unfair' there at all.

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

Finally in every game, there are addons that are not free.

So don't use them. Nobody's FORCING you to use them. If you want to use them, use them. Otherwise, don't. Most of (note: most of) these 'addonss' that are paid are not legal in any sense of the word though.

Originally Posted by MrMadisonIV

WoW's UI isn't good. that's why it is open, and why addons are absolutely necessary for everything.

And LOTRO's sucks major tail end, seriously! The UI behind LOTRO needs major improvement, and the best way to ALLOW that improvement is to open it up and let users create these 'mods'

Originally Posted by MrMadisonIV

just as long as the game community does not degenerate to the point where you HAVE to have *insert specified list of addons*, or else.

The 'community' of WoW hasn't degenerated to that point, certain individuals have, yes, but they are not the majority of the 'community'.

Originally Posted by MrMadisonIV

as it is right now, I'm pretty happy with the LOTRO Default Interface

That's nice, and while you're entitled to your opinion, you have no right to force it on others. Personally, I think the 'Default Interface' blows goat chunks, seriously.

Originally Posted by MrMadisonIV

and I think the arguing comes from WoW players who want every other game to be like WoW so that they don't have to actually play WoW to get what they want.

Nobody here wants LOTRO to be just like WoW. In fact, nobody has even hinted that at all. What people are saying is that the interface needs to be opened up so that we can adjust it to our own taste. It is unreasonable to expect that the developers succumb to every little whim that every little user has. Then what we get is bloatware, and LOTRO is already way too bloated down (almost 8G for HD content? EGAD!)

Originally Posted by MrMadisonIV

next, once they open the Interface and you folks get what you want, we'll move on to the gameplay forums and start asking when we'll be able to raid Sauron, because WoW lets you kill the main story characters.

That's just insane

Originally Posted by Merciful_Death

I do not want to ever see non-turbine add-ons for Lotro.
Not for myself, and not for anyone else.
If the game 'needs' something to make gameplay better, players should petition Turbine to add the functionality. If Turbine feels it is worthwhile, and fits in with their intent of the game, then we will get it. Else we won't and didn't need it either.
I am firm on this, and no points of debate will change my view.

Yeah, let's add more bloatware. Hey, I've got a few demands too here, since we're going to 'force' everyone to like my own style of play, and my own interface, forcing them to accept this bloatware, whether or not they USE it!

• I want Cartographer functions
  • Editable Map points
  • ADDable map points
  • Waypoint mapping (a-la /tloc) so that I don't have to spend hours trying to find that quest mob I am supposed to turn **** into
  • Quest tracking
  • GLOBAL POI
• Auctioneer (or likewise) is a must! The default auction interface SUCKS, quite literally.
• Better Quest Interfaces. hey, separate Deeds from Quests, and let them be shown where -=I=- want, and IF I want them
• PROPER craftingg / tradeskill interfaces that can detect 'hey, the current vendor can sell me my supplies', and make more than one thing witout me having to repeatedly click. Stack things up in groups, that's fine, but clicking after every item, uggggggh
• When I click ONE bag, I expect ALL bags to open, not just one. Why should I have to click on each individual bag
• I want to see everything a-la FuBar (ie: properly displayed at the top and bottom of my screen), from DPS to FPS to total Equipment Damage to Latency to how many arrows my hunter has to kills to level.

Yeah, I want all that, and since we're not going to let anyone create mods for it, you are forced to have what I want too, and LIKE it!


You see, it gets ridiculous, and bloaty, and not everyone wants the same stuff. Expecting Turbine to say "hey, we'll add all this" (and I haven't even gone into half the mods I use) is wrong, and honestly, saying "They must do this", well, that's just worse. This takes time from development of game material (which should be the focus) and puts it into Tom's petty little "I want" category. Yet, each and every one of those utilities is not only LEGAL, but useful. This is why additions and addons need to be allowed, and the interface needs to be opened up sso that those talented can do this


Please note:
I have only been involved with the game for a couple of days, and from what I've seen, it's decent, and I certainly haven't seen 'everything'. The point is that with 'no addons' , users are forced to accept the default BS that is thrown together, regardless of how poorly thought out it is (and the default UI, yeah, it's poor). If someone wants to add something, well, they can't. if they want to open all their bags? Oh sorry, you can't do that, we're not going to 'allow that', cuz it could lead to 'cheating' &&&?

The only addons I miss are the ones that gave info and control of my alt's.

There is one called rested that lists all your characters on a server, how much rest they have, how long till they are fully rested, and how far along they are to the next level.

There was a notepad addon that kept notes across characters. This would allow you to make a note while playing one character (e.g., Borogrove needs two high-grade steel ingots) and then view those notes while playing other characters.

But the tour de force (sp?) addon for alts is character viewer. It allowed you to call up the paper doll of any of your characters. You could then view what was equiped on your alt, take a peek in their inventory and even examine their bank contents.

Note, none of these addons gave a combat edge, or were necessary for raid participation. They just made the life of an altoholic so much easier.

Originally Posted by twhiting9275

...if they want to open all their bags? Oh sorry, you can't do that, ...

unless you are smart enough to find the B key on your keygoard

I think a mod community is a great way to improve the game. I know plenty of features I saw become standard in WoW and even LotR:O were originally just a mod that everyone loved so much they put it in the game.

I, for example, hate how hard it is to keep track of which songs are still active as a minstrel and how much time they have left. You have to mouse over these tiny icons to see anything, and with like 7 songs up at a time, the icons are constantly changing position, making that basically impossible. On top of that, the icons are so tiny (in the largest resolution) that it's very difficult to tell which icon is which song to know which to sing again.

With a mod community, at least I'd have a stop-gap until the LotR:O team figured out how to improve this interface. Plus the mod community, with all the various options, generally weeds out the weaker design options and lets the devs know exactly what we want in the game.

Yes, I realize Turbine could fix this...but who knows when, if ever, they'll get around to it. And when they do...will they come up with a decent interface to replace the current one or just some bad replacement for the current bad interface?

I played WoW for a couple of years, and while I don't anymore...and enjoy LotR:O more...that doesn't mean there aren't things WoW did well that LotR:O doesn't do well. That also doesn't mean I want LotR:O to become WoW (I certainly don't). There were a TON of mods for WoW, and yes the majority of them sucked. But I was able to tell which those were based on ratings and ignore them and get the ones which my peers thought were the best. I didn't see a single mod out there that offered some game-breaking advantage to the player who had it.

Originally Posted by twhiting9275

Lots of incredibly intelligent thoughts put down into words

I only read about half of these posts and I am amazed about the "I don't want to use addons so no one else should" posts. Ridiculous.

"I don't want to improve my eyesight so I am not going to wear glasses and no one else can either."

The only reason why the WoW devs put the new UI functionality into the game was due to the player base creating addons. No reason not to let the player base do the heavy lifting.

Caco.

Originally Posted by xowl

I wrote addons for WoW. I wrote LUA script macros for WoW.

I can't imagine why LOTRO is taking as long to learn the lessons other games went through as those games did. WoW re-organized its ah recipe section by skill over a year ago; LOTRO should have seen that they made that change (and other ah changes) and implemented them out of the game, not in chapter 10/11. When Turbine realizes that rp servers really are necessary, I hope they take some solace in the many posts from Blizzard claiming they wouldn't be needed... right up until they implemented them.

Some form of macros, scripting, or addons is a huge source of fun for players. The default UI for *every* game is minimally functional. The current level of macros (one slash command per shortcut, just to save typing) is below even CoH/CoV's level of extensibility (and I never thought I'd say that). The current level of skinning is getting *much* better (thank you Turbine!!) but still lacking (I want to make a skin with the F-key command to select a user by every member of my fellowship, so I can get to them faster to heal).

As an rper, I want script to say something when I cast certain spells^H^H^H^H^H^Hskills (preferably not every time). I want buttons/hotkeys that do reasonable things based on some circumstance (healing myself if my target is dead, rather than giving me an error message). I want to queue up common sequences of actions based on my intent, rather than my details (which I find more in keeping with the source material), such as cast Call of the Second Age and cancel War Speech, maybe queuing up a cast of Chord of Salvation.

I want script that equips/unequips weapons. I do switch weapons in combat, primarily on my Champion (grabbing a shield, turning off Fervor, maybe hitting my horn, and running away, for example). You can't equip an off-hand weapon without dragging to the paper doll.

I want UI mods that change layout as well as just graphics (I want debuffs and buffs sorted separately and not moving around all the time; I want timers on certain minstrel buffs like ballad level; I want my health displayed in a manner consistent with party health so I can glance down and know if *I'm* wounded as well as if my fellowship is).

And I don't want to wait for Turbine to prioritize these and devote the resources to them, as opposed to making some interesting instances.

Someone complained that certain WoW mods are considered "essential" (by raiding groups, something that isn't an issue in LOTRO). In every case, that's market research for Blizzard. They've implemented the functionality of essential mods into the base UI, allowing those who don't want to bother with mods to get the same functionality. Sometimes it's been a major UI change (raiding UI added most of the useful functionality of the major raid mod) and in other cases it's just been slash commands or LUA object access (the major Druid shapeshift mods are now re-creatable with simple slash commands).

Some people get overwhelmed with mods. That is because they get pressure to install too many. Making macro-able actions is better for that reason. Some people abuse mods and macros. That is a constant process of learning, but it really only affects them and their groups.

But Turbine has been slow to catch up to the last two years of lessons in other games. A few macro or addon options will give us an escape valve for major game annoyances and for idiosyncratic desires.

My main macro desires are
- Put two or more commands on one button/hotkey.
- At a minimum, put a /say or /tell in with using a skill
- Next request would be toggle a skill plus queue another
- a /useskill command (to support the first request)
- Equip/unequip items (for shielding-up or returning to dw in combat, and for disarming in town/in my house, and for wearing a performing outfit while playing music)
- Enough conditionals to heal myself if my target is dead and use a skill based on a toggle

My main add-on desires
- Activate certain abilities at log-on (/chatlog on, /rp on, enable toggles)
- Record dps/hps over time (that might be doable by parsing a combat log, but see next item)
- Fix up the combat log to have real data and detail. Many skills are just lost in the log (such as Champion multi-attack skills)
- More buttons (I need a music bar, a dance bar, ... )
- Better emote popup menu (!)
- Easier mail management
- Easier repeatable quest turnin (turning in 50 honey-roasted chickens this week has been painful)
- Better crafting management (what do I have mats for, what mats do I need)
- Notes on the friends list (!!)
- Auto-handle roll/pass (pass on hides, roll on anything I can equip, roll Need on recipes I can learn, etc.)

These aren't things Turbine is likely to be working on (well, maybe some... usability is behind other games in many areas). Please give me a way to add them.

I dislike most mods. I always hated having to update them in WoW and I was never hardcore player. I had maybe 5 mods but a couple were compilations - thus a ton of little bits to update (thank god for UI Updater).

Anyway, the changes listed above are all good ones. Even as a lowbie (high teens low twenties) I've wanted some to most of these.

Anyway, with the skinning utils I'm seeing in the launcher it looks like they might well be on their way.

Not a big fan of the original interface. I prefer to have all the unitframes and bars in one area. I've been using Fenir Wood Suite, and really like the look of it.

honestly i would like to see them put in support for macros long before they put in support for addons

Addons are ok, provided that the add on is something thats impossible for another player to tell whether you have it or not.
This allows for example add ons like WOWs multiple mailing system or Auctioneer.

Add ons , which fall into the category of "You cant group with us unless you have this add on"
shouldnt be allowed.
The inference of the above is that other players can tell if you have some particular add on.