"Within minutes, the undead traitors claimed rule of the kingdom and began a reign of terror so vile that even Sauron considered it, quote, 'A little much'."
I agree -- this would change LOTRO from a typical fantasy MMO (with the Tolkien Liscense) into a game that is deep & dynamic, full of socialization, which is the most important aspect of an online game.
I know I'm usually hesitant to say this, but "come on, devs!" This idea, in any form, will be a huge plus in this game, so long as it's done right.
And the worst thing you could do is decide to do nothing at all with it.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." ~Robert E. Howard
Hayoo's already got a ton of people who are fans of this suggestion. At the very least, I'd say it's worthy of serious consideration in some way, shape or form. Let the devs balance it however they wish -- it could still be tested on the Isengard server.
Until that happens, I know a few out us here will keep the discussion going -- it's worthy of that much respect, and worth it for those of us who want more meaningful socialization or non-combat in Tolkien's World.
This one is more open to interpretation. The concept provides for Player Vendors but localized in taverns and only for food and drink. How useful this is depends on each person's opinion, but I found the idea interesting enough to explore a little. *shrug*
I'm probably going to take a break from Tavern stuff and work on some other things players have wanted...
So... to enrich upon what we have so far, what else is done besides the use of the colour wheel? When a player selects music, can he extend the buff by entering into music mode? Will dancing begin if they select the dance option from the wheel?
I think that would add all kinds of potential to roleplaying in taverns -- a lot of people go there to play music, tell stories, etc... but what if a few minutes into doing one, they got the options from the colour wheel? It could work the same way.
So... to enrich upon what we have so far, what else is done besides the use of the colour wheel? When a player selects music, can he extend the buff by entering into music mode? Will dancing begin if they select the dance option from the wheel?
Yes. The way I envision it is that if you have say, six people in the room and increasing merriment; once the wheel appears, if three of the six click the Dance icon, then the appropriate revelry item (say a dance-steps sheet or some other crafted item) is removed from their inventories and the three begin a new dance not available in the original emote list. (the more this type of revelry is done, the more that character acruse the unique moves like a Deed until they fill the bar and it becomes part of their emote list).
Let's say the next two pick Smoking. An item of pipeweed is removed from their packs as they both pull out pipes (if they weren't out already) and produce a unique and perhaps dazzling effect.
The last person picks Tales. A revelry item like a book of tales (either generic or specific to lore) is removed from their pack and before them, and to everyone else in the room, appears translucent figures of ancient legend, say the final battle between Gil-galad and Elendil with Sauron on the slopes of Mount Doom.
You would see them clash and spin and fight to the death, until they are all felled. Perhaps a rousing and powerful score is played in the background. There is a flash and the vision fades. (the Tales revelry-type mimics the waking-visions that Tolkien describes whenever Elves speak or sing, and I find that one the most exciting of the revelries).
And because all six together created a Three/Two/One Revelry (which is a nice sounding pattern) they all receive the same overall-bonus (whether of combat/maneuver-buff or the other suggested alternatives). Everyone wins and everyone is entertained at the payoff.
You see, the Revelry creates a Spectacle each time and because players are unpredictable in what they would choose, the size of the grouping, and the order in which the revelry icons are selected, chances are you will see a new combination each time a Revelry occurs. But players like order and structure and some may organize certain revelries for their known dazzling displays and potential buffs/rewards. To each his own.
Those that do not care to participate or even be distracted by Revelries can have an option that removes the effects from their screen and turn off emote logs in the chat.
I think that would add all kinds of potential to roleplaying in taverns -- a lot of people go there to play music, tell stories, etc... but what if a few minutes into doing one, they got the options from the colour wheel? It could work the same way.
Yup, that's how it works, but you need more than one player.
First you target a player and start /music.
The second player targets him back and does /dance. These two actions add a few ticks to the Merriment meter.
The /music player consumes a few revelry items and raises the bar.
The /dancing player consumes a few as well, and raises the bar yet higher.
Another player runs up and starts to /laugh and /drink, consuming beer items.
A fourth player runs up, a Minstrel, and seeing that the merriment level has almost peaked, targets one of the players and activates his Revelry skill and pushes the bar over the top.
POOF! A Revelry commences and the colour wheel appears. They make their selection based on what Revelry items they have and then enjoy the show and the rewards that follow. Note that at this time none were in a fellowship, they simply targeted each other and together raised the merriment. A few Ooohs and Aaahs and some laughter later, everyone runs off to enjoy an adventure, perhaps alone, perhaps together, it's up to them.
And meanwhile, maybe there were a few bystanders who got to watch the show without having to do anything. They receive no buffs for not participating but they may try it next time after seeing what they've missed. Word gets around, and they go seeking for Revelry items to join in, crafters find more of their wares in demand, and the inns feel more lively more often.
Yup, that's how it works, but you need more than one player.
First you target a player and start /music.
The second player targets him back and does /dance. These two actions add a few ticks to the Merriment meter.
The /music player consumes a few revelry items and raises the bar.
The /dancing player consumes a few as well, and raises the bar yet higher.
Another player runs up and starts to /laugh and /drink, consuming beer items.
A fourth player runs up, a Minstrel, and seeing that the merriment level has almost peaked, targets one of the players and activates his Revelry skill and pushes the bar over the top.
POOF! A Revelry commences and the colour wheel appears. They make their selection based on what Revelry items they have and then enjoy the show and the rewards that follow. Note that at this time none were in a fellowship, they simply targeted each other and together raised the merriment. A few Ooohs and Aaahs and some laughter later, everyone runs off to enjoy an adventure, perhaps alone, perhaps together, it's up to them.
And meanwhile, maybe there were a few bystanders who got to watch the show without having to do anything. They receive no buffs for not participating but they may try it next time after seeing what they've missed. Word gets around, and they go seeking for Revelry items to join in, crafters find more of their wares in demand, and the inns feel more lively more often.
This needs to be tested. Is the Isengard server open for trying it? Because if they are, a huge portion of the active/lasting/voting/recruiting community would be indebted to whoever could implement a basic form of this for them to test out.
This is exactly what Tolkien's works were about -- survival in all forms, yes, but also the many forms of art, taken part in social events. It really has to be looked into, at least in some way.
A well implemented ipresentation Hayoo, congrats on the response!
A few points though:
I need to be able to turn this feature off. I don't want to be in a fellowship or otherwise roleplaying in a tavern when a wheel pops up every minute or two. I want to be able to sing and dance and drink in one of Middle Earth's fine pubs without having this feature instigated by myself or having to participate with others - it could easily destroy the atmosphere of any kinship roleplay event. I'm sure if they were to implement it, they could also implement a toggle checkbox. I'd hate to be reciting a poem with some background music from a companion and then being yelled at for spoiling someone's conjunction. I'd be in a tavern for roleplay, the others to buff before adventuring and I'd be disadvantaged, counterproductive to the spirit of making taverns a place for roleplay.
Drinking, smoking, overeating, brawling - these events often leave people despondant, rather than merry. Perhaps some balance in the system - where are the consequences to these actions? Perhaps not everything invokes ALL bonuses, but instead there are some very minor penalties involved. I imagine a full group of wrestlers is not going to advantage a loremaster focus his will or fate. I also imagine some barbaric warriors are going to have a snore fest through a full conjuntive poetry reading. If everyone is open-minded and relaxed through smoking pipe-weed, where are the penalties? Some balance, with the bias obviously being towards advantages would add a bit more realism to a fantastic idea.
I'd love to see your idea implemented where a group of adventurers boldly claim they're off to slay the Warg of Budgeford, and ask for all to raise their tankards to wish them luck and have a subsequent advantage. <Linduin raises his tankard for Hayoo>
Bard of the ages, Minstrel to kings, teller of tales, creator of false titles.
A well implemented ipresentation Hayoo, congrats on the response!
A few points though:
I need to be able to turn this feature off. I don't want to be in a fellowship or otherwise roleplaying in a tavern when a wheel pops up every minute or two. I want to be able to sing and dance and drink in one of Middle Earth's fine pubs without having this feature instigated by myself or having to participate with others - it could easily destroy the atmosphere of any kinship roleplay event. I'm sure if they were to implement it, they could also implement a toggle checkbox. I'd hate to be reciting a poem with some background music from a companion and then being yelled at for spoiling someone's conjunction. I'd be in a tavern for roleplay, the others to buff before adventuring and I'd be disadvantaged, counterproductive to the spirit of making taverns a place for roleplay.
Drinking, smoking, overeating, brawling - these events often leave people despondant, rather than merry. Perhaps some balance in the system - where are the consequences to these actions? Perhaps not everything invokes ALL bonuses, but instead there are some very minor penalties involved. I imagine a full group of wrestlers is not going to advantage a loremaster focus his will or fate. I also imagine some barbaric warriors are going to have a snore fest through a full conjuntive poetry reading. If everyone is open-minded and relaxed through smoking pipe-weed, where are the penalties? Some balance, with the bias obviously being towards advantages would add a bit more realism to a fantastic idea.
I'd love to see your idea implemented where a group of adventurers boldly claim they're off to slay the Warg of Budgeford, and ask for all to raise their tankards to wish them luck and have a subsequent advantage. <Linduin raises his tankard for Hayoo>
Being able to turn off the colour wheel sounds fine, but remember -- you have to be engaged in something willing to take part. Perhaps fellowships need to be initiated first? Thoughts?
So I only just stumbled across this idea today, and I read every post (won't tell ya how long that took :P) I can't add much in way of appreciation that no-one else already has, but just to add that I love the concept. Also am I surprised that the thread has been running this long and we've yet to see anything like this in-game? not at all.
I, like one or two others am a little wary of it granting buffs for combat, personally I wouldn't mind, but there's many different fish out there who almost certainly would. (btw: there was a great post from rikilii sp? offering some well thought-out non-combat effects. I'd more readily support that than combat buffs)
There is one thing I would like to add, yes it's negative, but it's not a personal gripe, I'm just trying to look at the bigger picture: One thing that could be a huge problem with this system is the use of alcohol and tobacco (I use both myself irl so don't flame me :P) I can just imagine someones parent... "my little Johnny goes to a bar in that silly game he plays, drinks ale and smokes a pipe and gets something beneficial from it?! that's outrageous! how do I complain to this Turbine company?" Again, not a personal gripe, but a potential problem, and I didn't see that mentioned anywhere before.
But overall, fwiw and with a little tweaking and extra brainstorming...
Being able to turn off the colour wheel sounds fine, but remember -- you have to be engaged in something willing to take part. Perhaps fellowships need to be initiated first? Thoughts?
The idea includes bystanders and I really like that part, in fact I think it adds well to the sense of adventure and social interaction in Middle-Earth. As it stands (I think) if I'm playing live music (not ABC notation) then I would contribute and get the wheel or an effect. Hayoo hasn't fleshed out whether bystanders within 30' of the initiator get a colour wheel and thus a timed option to contribute or not. The system is good, the idea is good and I think the best way not to interfere with heavy roleplayers at their best/worst is to give us a checkbox to not participate, maybe you could call it 'Revelry Bystander'.
I can see this system leading to people waiting in taverns for their fellowship/raid to assemble and I can see at peak time this potentially leading to multiple 'revelry' conjunctions attempted, which is fine except for when you're trying to run a scripted roleplay event at a tavern at the same time with no thought to adventure. By default I like having bystanders notified and able to contribute, the checkbox should sort out the rest.
Oh and now that I think about it, consuming resources for this should be a necessity, pipeweed, ale, food, etc (I'm not sure about brawling or lute playing). If I entered a tavern and said I'm off to adventure and naught else, I might get a few cynical heads turned and some questions about what I want on my tombstone, but if I handed out loads of ale first, well that would be a different story.
Bard of the ages, Minstrel to kings, teller of tales, creator of false titles.
A well implemented ipresentation Hayoo, congrats on the response!
A few points though:
I need to be able to turn this feature off.
Thanks, Linduin!
I agree. Each player should have complete control over when and how much they wish to be involved with a Revelry.
Drinking, smoking, overeating, brawling - these events often leave people despondant, rather than merry. Perhaps some balance in the system - where are the consequences to these actions?
Each has it's own drawback. The Drinking still gets you drunk and blurs your screen (although I think players can switch this off in their video options) so it may need a small drawback somewhere else. Perhaps slightly slower induction times for certain actions.
lol. I hadn't considered overeating before. I think hobbits might have too much an advantage over the other races.
Smoking has a small disadvantage that should be taken into account when going adventuring: "The side-effect to smoking buffs is that it increases your chance for induction interruption of other skills during combat." The interruption would of course be a sudden wheezing and coughing.
Tustling gets you thrown out of a Tavern onto your face, probably with a wounding effect, in addition to be drunk as a skunk. That one is meant to get a laugh from bystanders and participants alike. Since drunkeness lasts for a while, that could eat into someone's buff time, so (if they don't toggle the video effect) that could be considered a slight disadvantage. Although, it can be an interesting experience running an instance completely wasted.
Originally Posted by sshx27
So I only just stumbled across this idea today, and I read every post (won't tell ya how long that took :P)
I'm sure it took a while. I'm impressed.
I, like one or two others am a little wary of it granting buffs for combat, personally I wouldn't mind, but there's many different fish out there who almost certainly would. (btw: there was a great post from rikilii sp? offering some well thought-out non-combat effects. I'd more readily support that than combat buffs)
I liked Rikilii's alternatives too and I'd be fine with them subbed for the original ones.
For combat buffs it comes down to "how much is too much? Is ANY additional amount than you can get now too much?" I keep asking how much a 1-5% buff in Maneuver damage for 20min, or a +20 in a given attribute would affect raids. Since I don't run them myself, I'm hoping someone can hop on and talk about them.
Originally Posted by Linduin
Oh and now that I think about it, consuming resources for this should be a necessity, pipeweed, ale, food, etc (I'm not sure about brawling or lute playing). If I entered a tavern and said I'm off to adventure and naught else, I might get a few cynical heads turned and some questions about what I want on my tombstone, but if I handed out loads of ale first, well that would be a different story.
I agree. Each Revelry type will have a consumable that will be needed to trigger it.
Would be nice if you could /tip a group of people a few tankards of ale in addition to some coin.
The idea includes bystanders and I really like that part, in fact I think it adds well to the sense of adventure and social interaction in Middle-Earth. As it stands (I think) if I'm playing live music (not ABC notation) then I would contribute and get the wheel or an effect. Hayoo hasn't fleshed out whether bystanders within 30' of the initiator get a colour wheel and thus a timed option to contribute or not. The system is good, the idea is good and I think the best way not to interfere with heavy roleplayers at their best/worst is to give us a checkbox to not participate, maybe you could call it 'Revelry Bystander'.
I can see this system leading to people waiting in taverns for their fellowship/raid to assemble and I can see at peak time this potentially leading to multiple 'revelry' conjunctions attempted, which is fine except for when you're trying to run a scripted roleplay event at a tavern at the same time with no thought to adventure. By default I like having bystanders notified and able to contribute, the checkbox should sort out the rest.
Oh and now that I think about it, consuming resources for this should be a necessity, pipeweed, ale, food, etc (I'm not sure about brawling or lute playing). If I entered a tavern and said I'm off to adventure and naught else, I might get a few cynical heads turned and some questions about what I want on my tombstone, but if I handed out loads of ale first, well that would be a different story.
I would gladly consume food/ale/pipeweed etc to instigate or match up with some of these revelries. In fact, I see an abundance of it already -- especially pipeweed, which is farmed constantly by aspiring crafters who are attempting to expedite the progression of their skill tiers.
Even so, if I could by more of the stuff from players at a larder, I'd love to take part in revelries -- they really add something to the game.
Long time reader of this thread, first time poster.
Given the amount of response, I think it would be exceptionally beneficial for the devs to incorporate something into the game. I would maybe even go as far as it would be a squandered opportunity not to.
They already have a certain percentage of guaranteed participants as indicated by the thread and more importantly no posts against it.
Edit: Forgot to sign
/signed SB
Last edited by Smiling_Bandit; Mar 29 2008 at 05:41 PM.
OK, so it's been almost a year. Where is the Revelry system? Stick it in the Mines of Moria expansion. Maybe it could be smaller and just an adaptation of the fellowship maneuver system. I've only been playing for a few weeks, but I've never even seen a fellowship maneuver attempted. Something like this could let players become accustomed to the FM system without the pressure of being mid-battle.
Wow. That's a very good point Orig-Rep. I'm a solo'er, never been in a fellowship. At some point I might want to go back and do the Epic line, which means having to break down and join a group. I don't want to be the lvl 50 that has no idea which button to press or what to click, or what "need/greed" actually means. Not to mention figuring out the UI and whether/how to use voice chat, etc. Revelries would give a low-pressure/high-fun way of learning this stuff.
So yet again, another reason this is brilliant!
/re-signed
- Harry
Aethelberht, Hobbit Burglar Level 38
Currently avoiding the Evendim deed grind
Silver Spring, MD, USA (but still a Yorkshireman at heart - tha can allus tell a Yorkshireman...)
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Re: Game System: Tavern Revelries
To be brutally honest, I think this idea has very little chance of making it into the game. Let's face it, although this idea is excellent, developers (who are usually more into monster-killing than role-playing) probably see it as merely a complex version of fishing - and I recall their bemusement over the popularity of fishing almost got to the point of sarcasm in one dev chat.
Developers generally don't understand roleplay or non-combat play, so they probably come to this thread with an attitude much like this:
Developer: "Blimey, this is a popular thread - wonder what this is all about. Hmmm, taverns? Why would anyone want to spend time in a tavern? It has no monsters and the idea doesn't even introduce monsters. There's not even much fighting at all, and why would anyone need tavern brawls when there are REAL monsters to fight? The rest of this revelry stuff just looks like needless complication to me for no gain. Hah, this nonsense has a snowball chance in hell of getting adopted, and it's a good thing too."
Sadly, the whole depth and intelligence of the idea will be completely lost on people whose whole drive seems to be towards developing dungeons. Personally I'm surprised we'll be getting fishing - and since fishing IS being implemented I suspect it will involve dungeons and monsters in some way.
I fear taverns will remain as they are today - places that are mostly empty where a few people try desperately to make the game immersive while they get no developer support at all.
Consider that while some of the developers have expressed bemusement over the popularity of non-combat activites like fisiing, there are others on the team who share such player desires. Give them a while to discuss alternatives that can generate the same results as Revelries.
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Re: Game System: Tavern Revelries
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Originally Posted by ratto
nice idea.
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