Thread: Game System: Tavern Revelries

Originally Posted by basilforth

very nice tavern, though I imagine that most hobbits would be a little queasy being so close to the water......

Oh, that area across the road from the tavern isn't water, just a grassy slope.

Wow...
Turbine, PLEASE announce this as part of MoM!! This is the most well thought out concept I've seen on any forum!

I just LOVE those pictures of possible taverns... it's hard to tell they are photoshopped!

Hayoo, you should become a dev for Turbine...

Originally Posted by Hayoo

Thought I'd post the Shire homestead tavern to complete the list I posted before.



Its relation to the Revelries topic is of course that Revelries can be held here. I've been working on a new series about Homesteads and will be posting it in maybe a month or so, time-permitting.

Hope everyone has a great weekend.

Thanks, Hayoo. I admit I wish there were more Elven/Dwarven/Mannish taverns in the game (there's only one Dwarven one, and no elven ones, as I see it so far).

I'd also like to reiterate just how empty the inns and taverns of Middle-earth are with the current state of things. Let the communities have some impact on the game!

I give this thread five stars.

Originally Posted by Gumawerian

Thanks, Hayoo. I admit I wish there were more Elven/Dwarven/Mannish taverns in the game (there's only one Dwarven one, and no elven ones, as I see it so far).

I'd also like to reiterate just how empty the inns and taverns of Middle-earth are with the current state of things. Let the communities have some impact on the game!

I give this thread five stars.

44 pages and still strong..I agree with you on this too. This needs to be implemented, MoM still has time to come out. Let's focus more on building social and RP tools for this game over a new zerg boss.

Originally Posted by Strider5548

44 pages and still strong..I agree with you on this too. This needs to be implemented, MoM still has time to come out. Let's focus more on building social and RP tools for this game over a new zerg boss.

My prediction is we will be seeing nothing like Revelries, nothing new to do in taverns, no mini-games, and at least one more zerg boss. Hopefully I'll be proven wrong.

Originally Posted by Andanir

My prediction is we will be seeing nothing like Revelries, nothing new to do in taverns, no mini-games, and at least one more zerg boss...

ROFL! Of course I shouldn't be laughing - you're probably right.

Just found this and I like this idea! A NONcombat way to enjoy the game!

/signed

Originally Posted by Beery

ROFL! Of course I shouldn't be laughing - you're probably right.

I'd say it depends more on whether or not they're working with Hayoo.

Originally Posted by basilforth

All this to say to the Devs: Bless you for LOTRO. Bless you for commenting kindly on this worthy idea. Bless you for bringing my favorite fictional world to life. Keep up the good work! We will be extremely grateful if you are able to bring any elements of this idea to the light of day!

Ditto...
We are still so excited about each new book that comes out. We love the fishing that we waited so long for, even though I'm still longing for complete house decorating control, as in SWG. and putting fish trophies all over the walls at any height and moving furniture any where in the house. But we love this idea of revelry and would be grateful for another way to add camaraderie into the game. So please take this well developed idea by Hayoo, that so many of us love and run with it.

/applaud Hayoo
/signed

Elewyrn silverlode TCO officer

I just found this thread and killed a few hours at work and at home reading through the entire thread.

This is a great idea Hayoo and I too would love to see it implemented. I personally would rather see it as a Deed/Title/Trait type system instead of a buff system. Although *ANY* implementation would be wonderful.

/Signed infinity+1

I'm more excited about the Revelries mechanic for its complexity than for its buffs. If anything, the buffs should be light and nonessential for builds (to keep simple combat fans happy) but they should be long-lasting, so that a player can look at his stats in combat and say "my character has faster power-regen out of combat (or faster morale regeneration, or whatever) because I took part in a Revelry." I love little things like that.

I still think this could be easily balanced! And it would be such selling point for people I'm trying to get to subscribe!

This has to be one of the best suggestions for LOTRO, I have read. I would love to see it implemented as soon as possible so as to establish a more social network in-game as it is starting to lag, like Bree.

Extremely well planned and thought out idea, I must say it would be a delight to have this added to game, good job!

Finally have some time to comment on a Fatigue-type system for LOTRO. It's a bit of a wall of text, but I tried to break it up for easier reading.


Dread Recovery

There was a time when I came up with several Recovery systems that dealt with reducing Dread. I coupled Dread to places like Taverns and Homes and also using certain items while there (such as fireplaces, having a meal, reading a 'hope manuscript', etc). Not so much to get your Hope stat up, but just reduce the timer on Dread so you could get back to adventure sooner.

This was the original intent of the Tavern Retreat option, where after a nasty death you could teleport to your home or tavern room (assuming you had enough travel rations to get there).

Extending this idea of adventure recovery to a social setting planted the seeds for the Revelries concept.



The Problem Manifests

The problem was that Dread reduces itself very rapidly in this game, too rapidly to really compel someone to want to return all the way back to their home or a Tavern to get it reduced quicker, since you'd probably spend that saved time just running back to where you were adventuring. In this respect Turbine has fostered interdependency by allowing Minstrels to remove your Dread on the scene.

The best way to get around this would be to ask Turbine to increase the Dread timer, which would create the same effects that Fatigue did, making players want to seek out ways to reduce it (e.g. Revelries and such). But at the time that seemed a lot to ask, changing this core casual-style gameplay, just to get people into town when they were already having fun adventuring and were used to the pace of their play sessions.



Star Wars Galaxies

This was one reason Fatigue was removed from SWG: The perception by devs and players that it slowed down the game by making you rest "too much". They also took a look at the new WoW, with their Tavern Rest feature which allowed players gain XP rewards for 'resting' offline at certain places, and wanted to compete.

The other main reason for removing it was that the Entertainer class, who were supposed to interact with the players they were reducing fatigue for, were all starting to go AFK. The Devs started seeing cantinas full of new characters that had turned themselves into macroing dance-machines so they could powerlevel their character and unlock a Jedi (the infamous Hologrind epidemic).

So rather than fix the Holocron problem (which was slowly strangling the economy), they decided to remove Fatigue completely without any sort of replacement. As Raven said, socializing died, unless it was in the long Doctor Buff lines that formed outside starports. Camps died as well, as there was little reason to buy or use one (at least until they added crafting stations to them).

Only now has Entertainer become a socializing class again, as they can make custom-buffs for other players. Whether this has succeeded in getting players to speak to one another, I do not know.



Revelries is born

Once I realized increasing Dread time was such a fundamental change to the game (something I didn't want to tackle at the time as Revelries was already becoming complex), I decided to shift Revelries from a post-adventure mechanic to a Send-Off-Party one.

Players already spend precious minutes just finding a group to go out adventuring with and I decided to try to attract that demographic. I figured Taverns were natural focal points and that small-but-long-lasting buffs with entertaining reactions would encourage players to join in.

But as Raven has pointed out, this doesn't overly compel people to join in, unless they're curious, or looking for unique entertainment, or want to work on that Dancing deed to unlock a twirl animation. To change that means facing a massive perception battle. Players would demand ways to rapidly reduce Dread solo since the devs can't guarantee that any tavern or campfire you go to will have people there to Revel with. And if you add those solo options, the need to Revel is removed anyway. It's a sticky thing to tackle.



One Possible Way

Instead of tying it to Dread, you could possibly tie Fatigue to Rest XP.

Say you gain Dread from a nasty wipe. An icon appears on your UI saying you stink and have 4 points of dread. Now lets add a second icon that says you are restless or Fatigued from the ordeal. Your dread diminishes as usual, no changes there, but when you log off you don't generate as much Rest XP while offline without removing that Fatigued icon first. Your mind has recovered but your body is still telling you "phew! just give me a minute."

Now if you want to be strict, we could say that Fatigue never wears off unless you do something about it. But I like being nice, so I'd say the Fatigue still wears off over time, just a lot longer than Dread.

So you have Fatigue now. At the end of your play session, you could then seek out Taverns, Revelries, or your home for varying degrees of Fatigue Reduction. Or, if you really really don't want to interact with anyone else, next time you log into your home first or you could spend some destiny points to get that Rested XP option.



Conclusion

This compromise probably wouldn't be so popular either as there's still the perception of an unfair penalty, that you have to get rid of something yourself rather than letting the game do it for you.

But that's the best I could come up with without rocking the boat too much. With such a change Revelries becomes both a pre-party and a post-party option, there are reasons to do them, and more opportunities to see people doing them, but you aren't forced to.


P.S. I was going to post the descriptions for the News/Chatting and Tales Revelries, but this is long enough already. I'll save that for another time. Can't wait to show you.

P.P.S. I have added a Discussion Index to bottom of the original post, pointing out pages in this topic where I've responded to questions or posted images, and where players have brought up good discussion points. I hope you find it useful.

Gathering Revelry Item Components

I was going to describe the News/Chat Revelry but I realized I first needed to explain how the items used for the action are gathered and created.

The Drinking, Feasting, Smoking, already have gathering and crafting paths as part of the current professions. News, Tales, Music, and Dance needed something different.

Naturally I turned to the NPCs of Middle Earth, as they would be the logical place get local news and gossip. I avoided using the Scholar profession as they are more about the study and gathering of things to learn, especially of what is written. I wanted a skill that focused on gathering what was spoken.

So first we add Scribing to the Hobbies list, which gives you two icons.

1) Track Locals

2) Scribe

The first icon, when activated from a quickslot, shows local NPCs who are willing to speak and share with you.

NPCs usually already have names and titles, such as Townsperson or our friend Second-Watcher Heathshaw in the image below. Sometimes these characters will have the usual quests, other times they share a quick clip of dialogue. But for this concept, we will also turn him into a Node. In this case, he is a Tier 1 Scribe Node, called a Friendly Person (as opposed to a Shattered Pitcher or Copper Deposit).





So you've tracked him on your map and run up to him. You would select him and then click your Scribe icon. If you have your Scribing supplies equipped Heathshaw begins a talking animation and you start to record his news, stories, favorite dance steps, whatever he's willing to share. These recorded notes can then be used to craft Revelry items.

If you are lucky, you may come across a rich node, which will have the name Captivating <node name> (as in that character holds you enthralled with even more juicy news or tales, granting you some special items for critical success in crafting).

As you record his words and gather information, your level in the Scribe Hobby bar will go up. Like Fishing, this can only go up so much every day. This is in contrast to other professions that allow you to level up by crafting gobs of items you will never use. Considering this hobby can be used by anyone, and there is little risk to harvesting the items, it seemed prudent to keep surplus items to a minimum, encouraging you to craft only what you need or want to sell.


Below is a list of Tier Nodes and what they produce.

Crafting Gathered Components

Crafting Revelry items would be similar to other professions, such as Scholar, using the same levels of proficiency

In the case of Revelries, from a Tier 1 "Friendly Person" an Apprentice Scribe or higher may receive any combination of:

Local Events
Local Gossip
Local Joke
Local Advice
Local Story
Local Legend
Local Mystery
Basic Folk Tunes
Basic Dance Steps

Using these items, a Scribe can create:

Talk Items:

[Local News]
Description: Revelry item used to generate merriment and activate the News Revelry action. Resulting animation: Emoting
*[2 Local Events]
*[1 Local Gossip]
*Mastery Item for Critical Success: [1 Local Mystery] = 3 items

[Local Greeting]
Description: Revelry item used to generate a small amount of merriment and activate the News Revelry action. Resulting animation: Emoting
*[2 Local Jokes]
*[1 Local Advice]
*Mastery Item for Critical Success: [1 Local Mystery] = 3 items

Tales Items:

[Local Tales]
Description: Revelry item used to generate a small amount of merriment and activate the Tales Revelry action. Resulting animation: Emoting
*[2 Local Stories]
*[1 Local Legend]
*Mastery Item for Critical Success: [1 Local Mystery] = 3 items

(When Merriment peaks and you complete a Tales Action for the Revelry, a short story scene will play before your eyes, featuring somewhat translucent figures reenacting some special event in Middle Earth history, such as The Fall of Elendil or Bilbo's birthday speech. Only the one who activated the tale, and those grouped with him, will be able to see the dialog. For lower levels the Tale will be random. At higher levels, there will be mastery items you can apply that will create a Tale for a specific event that you can use when the Revelry Wheel appears. Some of these mastery items will be from Nodes, others from Quests, and still others from Reputation Vendors. Per Gumawerian's suggestion, if possible, players could be able to chain different marked Tales together to complete a scene.).


Dance Items:

[Beginner Dancing Lesson]
Description: Revelry item used to generate a small amount of merriment and activate the Dance Revelry action. Resulting animation: Dancing.
*[1 Basic Dance Steps]
*[1 Dance Step Sheet]

Music Items:

[Beginner Music Lesson]
Description: Revelry item used to generate a small amount of merriment and activate the Music Revelry action. Resulting animation: Miming a musical tune.
*[1 Basic Folk Tune]
*[1 Music Sheet]
*Mastery Item for Critical Success = Musical Tune (e.g. Hobbit_Tune_4)

Node Locations

The general location of Scribe Nodes is illustrated in the map below. Most nodes will spawn within NPCs at settlements, typically with vendors, busy townspersons, and the like. Just look for the Tier name that pops above their head, select them, and then fish for information. Once used, a node will pop up under another name after so many minutes, depending on the density of NPCs in the area.





The higher the Tier, the higher level components are gathered to make more potent Revelry items, which can be used to speed up the merriment, or generate unique Revelry animations upon completion of an Action.

Incidentally, this gathering method could also service the Tussle Reverly by having you visit guards and trainers around the map to record their brawling tips, but I haven't quite decided yet.

Hayoo, just... wow. You're idea was already amazing...

Why hasn't Turbine hired you yet?

damn hayoo, do you even play the game anymore? or are you like several people

this just keeps getting better and better, you really should be working for turbine

Well thanks, guys.

Originally Posted by skorpion352

damn hayoo, do you even play the game anymore? or are you like several people

I get some hours in during the week. Not as much as I'd like but I'm a Lifer so I don't mind missing a few days. It's easier to find time to play than to work on these things.

My current to-do list has me busy on an instance called Ost Talath, also need to make updates to the Horse Route map, gotta make the Rev Bystander chart, more Larder mockups, introduce some new Pedigree stuff, Homestead features, "People" feature, Language feature, some thematic maps, and finish something called Map of Years. Umm...and some other stuff.

Originally Posted by Hayoo

Well thanks, guys.



I get some hours in during the week. Not as much as I'd like but I'm a Lifer so I don't mind missing a few days. It's easier to find time to play than to work on these things.

My current to-do list has me busy on an instance called Ost Talath, also need to make updates to the Horse Route map, gotta make the Rev Bystander chart, more Larder mockups, introduce some new Pedigree stuff, Homestead features, "People" feature, Language feature, some thematic maps, and finish something called Map of Years. Umm...and some other stuff.

damn man, you really do deserve that hall of famer title, and a job at turbine. keep up the awesome work, and lets hope that turbine has at least one of your ideas on thier to do list (and you've already sont half the work for them by designing the systems)

Originally Posted by skorpion352

damn man, you really do deserve that hall of famer title, and a job at turbine. keep up the awesome work, and lets hope that turbine has at least one of your ideas on thier to do list (and you've already done half the work for them by designing the systems)

I agree he is an asset to the company at the least. Hayoo's ideas may not be conservative enough for some developers, but they've definately managed to appeal to a number of players (on the forums alone). If anyone on these boards has earned Turbine's consideration, I'd say he has.

/signed again... because it's been a long time since I've seen it on the front page of the Forums.

Originally Posted by Stradius

/signed again... because it's been a long time since I've seen it on the front page of the Forums.

...Since the thread was moved here, I've seen more and more time occurring between posts -- in fact, that seems to be the case for all of the threads moved here. It may have something to do with accessibility.

/signed.

Mellandall lvl 50 Lore-Master

Originally Posted by Gumawerian

...Since the thread was moved here, I've seen more and more time occurring between posts -- in fact, that seems to be the case for all of the threads moved here. It may have something to do with accessibility.

They should give it some kind of highlight or extra tab on the panel. I use that panel to navigate everything and I often don't see it there.

To Turbine LOTRO Developers. To date, here is an updated list of unique individuals who have read and noted significant support for this idea since it was first mooted in August '07:

acrb101, Aegorian, aethelberht, agamem2, agranom, Ainuril, airete, Aiwa, Andanir, Andoli, andulinde, Angelina Rayne, Angeliel, Aodhan Withey, Aphasial, arch07js1, Ariwen55, Asphyx, auzzies own, AvalonDrew, Azaelia Proudfoot, BalladofBob, Baresira, basilforth, battleship31, Beery, Benedain, Benucio, bigo2mags, bittersnap, bladeofshadows88, Bloodyfury, Blueorb, bopofgondor, brunnhilda, BTiger, Cadraver, Caerylwyn, Californium252, Calimous, Ceinwen7777777, ChampionSword, Chasmodeus, cold_realms, Cormoran, Covellos, Cubrethil, Cyclesix, daPoppa, DarrettTeldemari, Dav16, Davids Sling, DDM Dragonlord, Dean340, Dell8400p4, demosthenes, Diminulette, dorablu, dovie, drsmoothsrs, duckduck96, durgos, duvelmoortgat, Dvl, Dwarflord, Dwarven-Might, EdubRules, e h b, Elewryn, Elfheart, Elgyth, Eliriel, elosefast, Endolahsas, Erathane, esrilk, EvilDevil, Evilpasty666, falco9870, fallenacorn, Farnik, FatMagic, Forjo, FrozenRapier, FuelFORfire, FWH-Praetor, G4TOR41D5, gamwise samgee, GEARS1980, Genseric, Germanator, Grace2112, greydmiyu, Gumawerian, Haffle, HallsOfMandos, happyballs, Harlinator, haytkir, Hellgato, hotinaz, Hydrothodor, hyperboy83, iamjason, Ibalter, Inarion, Invincible12, IronResolve, J2me, Jacanmaranman, jamesw1747, jarishs, jdcool777, Jedinik, Jj456, jnn4v, joev, jtondro, jrcreed, KaosReigns, KeithTalent, Kilmor1, Kippin, kmc41092, Koenigcitizen, koifishkid, Laire, Langwulf, Laurefinde, lazjen, leggolos, lescastor, Linduin, Liquid47, LittleG7, Lostulmaion, LOTRFan101, Luminati, M Vague24, Maestro, Marleey, MataTahu, Matrim115, Melkite, Merrien, MHaerandir, mikeakarobinhood, Mikolas, Miwi, Miz Sparrow, MMSAGERUSN, montego1, Moriaiwe, Mumakil511, Nanashe, Narthalion, nitrofenix, No_Usernames_Here, NorthernOpposition, Notaforumguy007, Numenoreanx, Nymphonic, oldmanwhoplays, Original-Replica, OriginsB, Parmandur, peixotopetit, Phileosophos, pilgrimpath, pittcrew1, Polinator, PongRulesU, PoppaSpanky, princess-lily, pwnedn00b, PyrateLV, QuixoticDan, RalphDamiani, RANA01340, ratto, Redbeaver, RGilthanas, Rhoenin, rikilii, Rynnzor, Saemundr, SamuelP, Sarcasmo, Sarsomar, Schmidster, screech1, Sector23, Sepultura, Serin36, Sethbeast, Shantale, skataneric, skorpion352, Smiling Bandit, SomniumWintersun, spacecake1080, spikycentaur, spiralsatori, sshx27, stealthranger52, STEVENXO, StoneGaijin, Stradius, Strayious, Strider5548, Stryker1487, stubing, Sylux14, Syrith, t0mm0t, Tahndur, TalonSilverwolf, Taralom, TarPalantir, Teowulf, TerminallyConfused, thedeadpoet, TheHylianLink98, Theradtaddan, TheStormKing, thomasgough, thrassoss, thy dungeonman, Tiburseffxi, tim, Trilli, Trobon, TsarithArcher, twiceagain, Twilightsong, uglygun, Umbrael, UMCorian, Urungus, Vahsyl, valkynphyre, Vanacor, vegravolin, Velorim, Venom1656, Vessol, vonlinder, Vulgrin, walkingplane, Westernesse, Whitestones, Wilborough, Wolfpack75, Wolv Ghost, Womdon, ww2jacob, XrioT, xxbalialxx, xxbluenvoaxx, y2mattitude, YellowOrgans, YippyJoe, Zaggles

The total number of unique individuals noting genuine support now stands at 263.
The total number of unique individuals noting genuine disapproval now stands at 3.
Thank you for your time.

Ever since I found this post many months ago, I have thought that this is THE BEST single post ever put on the forum. I occasionally come back and read other replies and it seems that others have the same desire as I do for this being implemented. I can see this as being something that would come about with the Inn League mechanic of the game. So to keep this going I shall give it another bump.

/signed
/sealed
/delivered

/double Bump

I love seeing how many people have this thread listed as the "best suggestion ever" in their signatures.

Eventually, I hope it gets more traffic even though it's been moved from the suggestions forum.

signed as well, this is brillant and would add some huge RP possiblities to an already great game. this implemented would make LOTRO a game i would never leave.
thanks
Derek

/signed

This would be a great addition to the game. Please make it happen!

I sign too! LOTR involve a lot of friendly gathering. It really boost morale and people who had fun togheter tend to complement each other well.

I'll add this to my signature too.

/sign

too long has this idea not been implemented into the game. TOO LONG!!!

Come now my heralded devs... with the amount of effort that appears to have gone into book 14.. or lack thereof, giving us book 15, with nothing but this in it, would completely redeem yourselves. How about throw out all plans for book 15(if there are any) and just bring us Tavern Revelries!

Originally Posted by Strider5548

too long has this idea not been implemented into the game. TOO LONG!!!

I know, I know... at times, I'm more excited about Revelries than I am about new regions, new bosses, or new classes. If I were the devs, I would seriously be asking the question "why?"

And I'd be happy to give them a hint: the answer isn't as simple as you might think!

Hayoo hasn't been on for a while, either. I sure hope he's ok. Too many Hall of Famers have gone the way of the Dodo after staying with this MMO during its development.

It makes me sad!

I thoroughly enjoyed looking through this thread at Hayoo's ideas. The title post is obviously amazing, but the others scattered through and the development of the idea are just as good. That being said, I can understand that Turbine can't realistically include this. Maybe they could eventually, but maybe they already have a different social system in mind, or in development.

I applaud you for a thread deserving of the Hall of Fame, particularly how polite it's stayed, and how the OP has continued to post more ideas!

Hey! It was this amazing idea's birthday 2 days ago!!!!!

Originally Posted by Dinatius

I thoroughly enjoyed looking through this thread at Hayoo's ideas. The title post is obviously amazing, but the others scattered through and the development of the idea are just as good. That being said, I can understand that Turbine can't realistically include this. Maybe they could eventually, but maybe they already have a different social system in mind, or in development.

I applaud you for a thread deserving of the Hall of Fame, particularly how polite it's stayed, and how the OP has continued to post more ideas!

I hope they have some kind of social system in mind, but people have been saying that since the first free content update.

I'd rather see Hayoo taken more seriously -- he's earned it.

This is the most well thought out idea i have ever seen. And you arent getting paid for it??? it sounds like some crazy thing only I would do!
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I want to play!

I'm pretty sure this idea would draw a lot more subscribers than the conventional new material. Turbine does a great job with traditional elements, but they're slow to come up with new ideas that really make this game stand out.

Just my two cents, but if they really want to try and go for mass-market appeal, I'd say theey need something new, not tired old concepts like the ones they've been trying to emulate. Hiring Hayoo might actually be worth something for them -- real money.