Thread: Game System: Tavern Revelries

Originally Posted by Dwarflord

I hope Turbine gives this idea some thought. It will do wonders for LOTRO. It's an extremly well thought out idea, plus it gives a reason to go to Taverns (Inns). Maybe also some racial traits to increase some of them even further. Each time they use a certain buff that's their "Specialty" it increase the effectivness of the buff, and can even make the group version of the buff even more effective. These would be the kind of revilries each race trait would effect:

Dwarves: Drinking and Tussling
Hobbits: Feasting and smoking
Elves: Music and dancing
Men: Greetings and Tales

This would expand it even more. Keep up the good work!

/signed

I missed your post before so I am replying here. Thankyou for the kind words. I like your idea for Racial traits in revelries. As tricky as the entire concept is to balance (what with buffs, duration, cost, etc), more customization of some sort among players would be nice.

I would add a third trait for each though so that there is some overlap among all of the races. The buff difference would probably need to be slight, so as not to "gimp" certain races, but it adds a nice sense of uniqueness. I have to keep in mind that the races already have Traits toward Maneuver buffs, so these would either be more subtle buffs or increase your chances to unlocking certain 'Deeds' for each action (e.g. certain Gift revelries will reward players with small wind-up toys of Dale- or Dwarf-make such as at Bilbo's party).

Just off the top of my head I would probably add these traits to your list:

Dwarves: Drinking, Tussling, and Music
Hobbits: Feasting, Smoking, and Drinking
Elves: Music, Dancing, and Tales
Men: Greetings, Tales, and Feasting

...or something like that. It would depend on the economic impact since many of the actions require using crafted items. All of the buffs will have to be balanced against the out-of-pocket expenses. We wouldn't want one race having to spend more than the others to activate their specialty buffs.

Your Party Events ideas sound like fun. I can see that being added for special occasions.

/signed
An amazingly well done post, absolutely amazing.

Make it so.

/signed

Awesome idea, no doubt - but looks like wishful thinking.

Not flaming, but I don't really get it. I'm picturing SWG where you'd run into the cantina, get your 10 min buffs, and run out. There was no comradery or community building lol.

"(AFK)BilboBot says: Minstrels buffing at the Pony! Tips welcome! Send tell for auto-invite!"

If they were to have something like this, I'd suggest having some "bad" and "neutral/unexpected" outcomes also. At least there'd be a bit of risk to make it more interesting.

I could maybe see something like this as a roleplay feature, but I'm wary about good buffs because I've seen other games where you basically felt like you had to have them. (and you did have to have them for PvP). Then they started balancing difficult PvE content around the buffs, assuming all the players always had them up (which they did).


p.s. alot of folks need no extra encouragement to spam emotes at the Inns

Brilliant idea! make it so

Interesting concerns. I will try to address them as I can.

Originally Posted by Gwyharl

Not flaming, but I don't really get it. I'm picturing SWG where you'd run into the cantina, get your 10 min buffs, and run out. There was no comradery or community building lol.

SWG had one class that provided emote-style buffs and it was more a solo service using the /watch feature. It wasn't interactive, and so most of the Entertainers were AFK since you could easily get XP that way. Even the new system they're working up, where an Entertainer crafts a person's requested buffs on the spot doesn't even come close to what Revelries are.

Revelries require no class, award no XP, and is based around the Merriment Level of the locations, which in turn is increased by the actions and cooperation of participants. It isn't meant to force the building of communities, but it does require more coordination for the rewards. You can't make camaraderie happen, and this system doesn't claim to do so, any more than Maneuvers do. It only tries to make cooperation fun, and reward players for it.

Addressing concerns of buff-and-run type players, I could suggest that the maneuver buffs only last so long as you're in a fellowship/raid group, although link-deaths and hiccups do happen. Perhaps they could only last so long outside of a group, like 5min, to give time for the player to get back in, but not long enough for someone to grab the maneuver buff and run, hoping to fellowship with others later. The minor buffs the players could keep.

"(AFK)BilboBot says: Minstrels buffing at the Pony! Tips welcome! Send tell for auto-invite!"

If they were to have something like this, I'd suggest having some "bad" and "neutral/unexpected" outcomes also. At least there'd be a bit of risk to make it more interesting.

The mechanics don't work like that, so no negatives or neutrals are needed. There is no buffing class for Revelries. The feature creates potential for spontaneous gatherings, revving up the Merriment with your time and consumption of crafted items, and then being rewarded for your group efforts.

As for charging Tips, it would be like a Burglar charging Tips for starting Fellowship Maneuvers. Yeah, I think we can all agree that would be a ridiculous thing for them to do. It would be pretty pointless for Revelries, considering that any Fellowship can create one around a campfire or in their own home.

I could maybe see something like this as a roleplay feature, but I'm wary about good buffs because I've seen other games where you basically felt like you had to have them. (and you did have to have them for PvP). Then they started balancing difficult PvE content around the buffs, assuming all the players always had them up (which they did).

Thankfully these buffs are only for PvE content, and PvP buff-maxing doesn't enter the equation. And this is just my opinion, but I doubt Turbine would gear future content around this as a blind man could see this would put the fun out of it completely. The entire system screams optional, although some will try to peg it as mandatory.

There are some players out there who feel that any adventuring buff, no matter how it is received and no matter the cost, must be acquired to "maximize" their character to the game's limit. Such players cannot be used to validate optional systems. To them there is no such thing as an optional system if it can give them an edge somewhere. They will complain if the buff is in only one location, claiming it makes them go there. They will complain if the good buffs require other players, claiming it forces them to group. They will complain if the buff requires an item, claiming it makes them spend money. These players will always feel they have to have the best buffs available no matter what it is, and will hate the devs and the game for "making" them get it.

These players would be missing the point of this concept. Revelries are openly geared towards helping with Fellowship Maneuvers, not mini-maxing characters. If they're out for personal buffs they'd be wasting their time, and everyone would know it. The side buffs aren't enough to warrant buff-bots, much less charge for them. Instead they are meant as a small thank you for participating in the group event.

There are other buffs to maneuvers already out there, such as Racial Traits, class skills, consumable items. Revelries are but one piece of a puzzle.

p.s. alot of folks need no extra encouragement to spam emotes at the Inns

The system isn't designed to encourage emote spamming. It's designed to let players have fun working together to gain rewards.

It should be noted that this is but one aspect of a wider system involving Taverns that I'm cooking up to better utilize these locations, to make them a viable option for adventurers and crafters to visit before heading out to adventure, to be as natural as checking your mail or the auctions.

I really, really love this idea. Very well thought out. Turbine really should consider adding you to their staff...no joke there.

Long lasting, lower benefit buffs from simple R'n'R. A great idea.

I sincerely hope the devs read this thread, and implement it.

Again, thumbs-up sir.

/signed again.

Some good ideas here.

Hayoo, you win the internet.

/gawk
/signed
/bow


By the way,

Originally Posted by Dwarflord

Comments about heightened merriment at parties and about race focuses on different aspects of merriment

I think the race bonuses for merriment are an excellent addition. Without going into any technical details, I also appreciated the comments earlier about this being more of a "spiritual" boost and potentially affecting hope; I think in terms of immersion / imagining yourself really living in LOTRO world, if you had happy revelries like this to draw on during times of dread and despair, it would certainly give hope and encouragement.

Furthermore, when *I* walk into a party I'm pretty much "merry" as soon as they open the door and I see all my buddies in there. It makes sense that at a big preorganized party/event that merriment would go up instantly and stay up for a while after leaving.

One other thing that I thought of was that it would be nice that if a revelry bonus was on, your fellowship got a longer amount of time to complete their fellowship maneuver. Particularly if there was something calculating how long you had been under the influence of a revelry bonus, and your bonus to response time increased proportionately. (e.g., you've been in a 6-person group with a bonus on for 30 minutes, you get a 50% time bonus extending how long you have to select your conjunction entries - in the same group that has had a bonus for 60 minutes, you get a 100% time bonus [twice as long as normal] for 5 minutes, you get a 5% time bonus)


Thinking of it in terms of.... in real life, the better you know AND get along with your coworkers, the more successful you will be, and the better you can trust them, etc. You can't be merry if you don't get along; conversely, if you've been merry for an hour you must be getting along great!

So if you're doing a fellowship maneuver, you have a better chance of succeeding because you're closer, more trusting, better at cooperating, etc. Well, that's how it is in the characters' world; in the real world, as a player trying to hit a mouse button or a hotkey macro, you have a better chance of succeeding because you have more time to discuss it and then respond appropriately.

Hm, it's not coming out sounding exactly as convincing as it seemed in my head, but I'm not the tactical genius here, either. Perhaps someone can take this skeleton of an idea and flesh it out more attractively....

Did I mention this is a great idea, I was also thinking maybe one of the "buffs" could be a bonus to hope but would only show up and stack with some other source of hope buff. So if you had been doing revelries and used say a +4 15min token the revelrie buff could add +1 and 5min to the token or in the case of a Captain pet hope buff it would add +1 to the pet hope buff for like 30min. Hey did I mention this is a great idea as it stands

Where did this guy come from?
And why is he not working at Tturbine?

I love the idea.

Someone said something about PM'in a dev, what about repoting this. Would that not do the job?

I love the idea.

A plea to the community and the devs:

Please do not let this suggestion get buried, it's just far to good. I don't expect it would be implemented as written, but the core concept is absolutely the best idea I've heard for LOTRO since STbeta.

Set this game apart from other MMO's even further devs! Take ideas like this to heart!

Originally Posted by Miz_Sparrow

Furthermore, when *I* walk into a party I'm pretty much "merry" as soon as they open the door and I see all my buddies in there. It makes sense that at a big preorganized party/event that merriment would go up instantly and stay up for a while after leaving.

Yeah, for Events I can certainly see the Dev's allowing that at times.

One other thing that I thought of was that it would be nice that if a revelry bonus was on, your fellowship got a longer amount of time to complete their fellowship maneuver.

Interesting. I guess that would be up to the timing. The current queuing time for maneuvers is about the same as a stun on the target. Were it longer, someone might get beat on a bit before the timer was up. Still, that would be a useful perk in many situations.

Originally Posted by Kilmor1

I was also thinking maybe one of the "buffs" could be a bonus to hope but would only show up and stack with some other source of hope buff.

Possible. I would like to reserve such a buff for the more complex combos, but it would depend on how it balances out with our current Hope mechanics.

Originally Posted by DDM_Dragonlord

Someone said something about PM'in a dev, what about repoting this. Would that not do the job?

LOL. Please don't report me.

Originally Posted by Hayoo

LOL. Please don't report me.

It was not meant as a bad thing, reports can be both good and bad.
I was merely making a suggestion as to how to get the devs attention on this great idea of yours.

In any case, anyone know how to get the devs attention on this?

INCREDIBLY inventive idea!!!

Mucho Kudos!!

(IE. Turbine lookey lookey...)

Originally Posted by DDM_Dragonlord

It was not meant as a bad thing, reports can be both good and bad.
I was merely making a suggestion as to how to get the devs attention on this great idea of yours.

In any case, anyone know how to get the devs attention on this?

oh, i kid, i kid. Thank you.

I suppose if one wanted to get Berephon's attention someone could start arguing about whether Balrog's have wings or not. Or talk about In-game Fishing to draw Patience's eye? heheh.

They don't usually post on this board, really. They don't like to get everyone's hopes up unnecessarily. But I'm assuming at least one of them will see the idea eventually and perhaps voice a comment or two about it at the water cooler or while sketching on a napkin or something....maybe.

Originally Posted by Hayoo

I suppose if one wanted to get Berephon's attention someone could start arguing about whether Balrog's have wings or not. Or talk about In-game Fishing to draw Patience's eye? heheh.

But it's gotta be on-topic... for example, let's discuss how in campsite Merriment, the Fishing maneuver adds a combat boost that debuffs the balrogs dreaded wingflap attack...

Why Aren't you working for Turbine!?!? And fishing Balrogs DO have wings.

/signed with 14 flourishes and an Eagle Feather Quill


-John Hancock

Simply the greatest and most well thought out suggestion I've ever seen. I think this would be a great addition to the game. All suggestions on the forum should be like this.

Originally Posted by Sepultura

Simply the greatest and most well thought out suggestion I've ever seen. I think this would be a great addition to the game. All suggestions on the forum should be like this.

The devs would have a helluva time keeping up with the suggestions if that was the case.

But the again the game would just be that much better to play.

I sincerely hope the dev will look into this

Originally Posted by Moriaiwe

I sent a PM to five of the devs, not sure who would be the one to look into this. PLEASE Devs, this is a fantastic idea. Take this one to heart!

I just noticed this morning that the thread as some shiny stars!

My thanks to all for their enthusiasm and kind words.

Hey, I helped with the stars! XD

Seriously, this post is the most well thought out idea I've ever seen, heard, read, or read about. Why aren't you working for turbine? I was convinced halfway through the post that a dev had accidentally posted a system to come out with the next patch. Absolutely astounding.

/impressed
/astounded
/amazed
/blacking out

When I first read it I had to go check who the poster was half way through cause I though it was an announcement of something already implemented. I would be nice for a dev to jump in here and at least say, 'I have read this thread' so I dont have to worry about it being ignored. And yes . . . I'm worried, I really want this in LOTRO!

If this doesn't get implemented in Book 11 or at least 12, I will cry. Yes cry in real life. And I'll post a picture of me crying on the forums.

Thanks guys, but I can't claim all credit for how it looks. I used the beginning of Turbine's Maneuvers overview as a template and expanded the format from there to illustrate my ideas.

Even if they did like this concept, I doubt it could be ready by even Book 12. They'd have to debate its impact, design the system, balance the numbers, create the artwork, generate appropriate effects, attach sounds, and all that.

Wow! I think this is an amazing concept and great idea to add to the game. This would be a nice break from trying to level to 50, and, every once in a while, just strolling around on my horse looking at scenary or attending a party. I would love to go into a Tavern, and get into a bar fight over some spilt Ale.

Truthfully, I think this is probably the best idea I've ever seen. Great job on how much work you put into it. I really hope this, or something like this but with the same basic priorities, is added.

It looks really good, but I do have one SLIGHT suggestion... why would fighting give agility (especially drunk fighting), and dancing Vit, and feasting might? Dancing should give AGI, feasting VIT, and brawling Might...


Just my two cents worth.

I don't care if this takes a year to implement- I still think it's freaking brilliant. It uses a concept that is already ingame (Fellowship Manuveurs) and makes them really interesting and heck, fitting to the lore.

this is one of the best ideas ive seen so far you sjhould work for turbine very deatailed also /signed

Dude, you are amazing.. has Turbine called you yet?

My only 2 cents is to add drinking games, and thats just b/c I saw beerfest..

Or make the drinking games a separate system.. like an in-game beer pong / cards, not sure how to make it 'lore-feasible' though. But we could totally worry about that later!!!

I'm subscribing to this thread.. and it keeping it alive forever!

You are the farking MAN!


PS I like to fish with the winged Balrogs!

There is No way I am letting this post fade away. The work Hayoo put into this, on top of the brilliant Idea itself... I want to see justice done to this thread, and if I have to fish with Winged Balrogs to get that to happen, So be it.

I agree they should put this in to give true use to drinks and pipeweed.

Man this is a great idea

Awesome.
/Sign

Can't let this slip of the front page

1 year of play in Meredian 59 on the free russian server 109

4 years of continuous play in Everquest, Stromm server.

4 months of play in LotRO Brandywine server.

I have to seriously /salute your suggestion--that's a DAMNED good idea.

/signed

really fantastic! i hope it comes to fruition.

/signed

Excellent idea! OP did an amazing job with the presentation as well!

/signed

fantastic idea