Edit, June 1: I'm leaving the original text of my essay here on the forums, but for those of you who use the LOTRO Lorebook, I've started migrating the content from this essay into Lorebook articles. The first article on Mechanics:Fellowships is now complete, and is more concise than this original essay.
Conflicting theories or statements have been made on the official LOTRO forums and other fansite forums about how group exp and "assist" exp work. Nobody has yet made a definitive guide to how exp formulas work in LOTRO and the two main fansite wikis are silent on the issue.
So I grabbed some guildmates (thanks kittyketh and ravyyn!) and a couple random strangers here and there, and we did some testing with a bunch of different alts. The mechanics of group exp are very clear with just a little testing. So here ya go: all the details on how exp works in LOTRO.
The mechanic of "rested" exp
Most people figure this out eventually, but I'll spell it out just in case.
When you are in a "rested" state (a blue portion of your exp bar is showing), you get exactly double the normal exp for every kill. This does not affect quest rewards; only exp from killing mobs.
You can spend Destiny Points to purchase additional "rest time".
The basic patterns of group exp
I could probably boil the group exp mechanics down to single formula but I'm lazy and it would make it harder to explain what's going on. So I'll present it as a three-part process because that's easiest to grasp:
Start with the group exp bonus, which is a fixed percentage value. Every member added to a fellowship increases the group exp bonus by 1.20 in a multiplicative manner. For example, a mob normally worth 100 exp for a solo kill is worth 144 exp if a 3-person fellowship kills it. Specifically:
2 people = 20% group exp bonus (1 * 1.2 = 1.20)
3 people = 44% group exp bonus (1.2 * 1.2 = 1.44)
4 people = 73% group exp bonus (1.44 * 1.2 = 1.73)
5 people = 107% group exp bonus (1.73 * 1.2 = 2.07)
6 people = 149% group exp bonus (2.07 * 1.2 = 2.49)
Next, apply the group exp bonus to each person's baseline solo exp to derive each person's baseline group exp, which is completely independent of anyone else in the group. The group exp bonus percentage is applied individually to EACH person's normal baseline solo exp for the mob. For example, assume a level 11 player would normally get 100 exp for solo-killing mob X, and a level 16 player would normally get 40 exp for solo-killing that same mob X. If those two players are in a fellowship together and kill that same mob X, the baseline group exp for the level 11 player is 120 exp (100 * 1.2), and the baseline group exp for the level 16 player is 48 exp (40 * 1.2).
Finally, divide each player's baseline group exp by the total number of players to derive the adjusted exp that each player receives. Again, the important point is that the baseline group exp is *different* for each player in the group as described in the preceding bullet. So to continue our 2-player example, the level 11 player would get 60 adjusted exp for the kill (120 / 2) and the level 16 player would get 24 adjusted exp for the kill (48 / 2).
There is one penalty that affects the basic mechanics outlined in the preceding three bullets. If any one player in the group is so high that the mobs being killed yeild 0 baseline solo exp for that player, then this does adversely affect the rest of the group to a degree that I have not tested thoroughly enough to state the formulas. At a rough guess based on limited testing, I'm theorizing that the penalty to every other player in the group is that they get only 66% of their adjusted exp instead of the full 100% of their adjusted exp. For example, when I paired a level 11 player with a level 36 player in the same fellowship and they killed a level 12 boar together, the level 36 of course got nothing at all, and the level 11 player got exactly 66% of what they would get in a 2-person fellowship with someone who was "in the color range" (at least green) for the boar. This is an obvious anti-exploit penalty to prevent using high-level players to power-level lower-level players. In a similar fashion, if you are below the color range (mob is purple to you), you get reduced or no exp, but I think the other players in range of the mob are not adversely penalized for that (I have not be able to fully test this for myself). This subject bears further testing, and if anyone has already done so please post your observations.
That's the group exp mechanics in a nutshell. If you think about it a little bit, you'll see that unlike practically any other MMO, the group exp mechanics in LOTRO are extremely forgiving and guild-friendly. Here are the ramifications spelled out:
There is no penalty whatsoever to any player in a fellowship based on the "level spread" of the fellowship, as long as the highest player in the group is "within the color range" of the mob. Your adjusted exp is not dependent on anyone else's level!!! Higher-level players in the fellowship do NOT somehow "steal" exp from the lower-level players in the fellowship!!! Drive those points home and spread it around because it's the Number One misconception that most players have at the moment, and it's preventing PUGs and even many kinships from grouping together more often. Yes, there is a penalty if the higher players in the group are outside the "color range" of the mob, but even then the penalty is a very slight reduction of only -33% of the adjusted exp for the players who are in the "color range".
The only "penalty" that exists is based on how many players are in your group, and even that is a somewhat false penalty. In fact, the more players in your group the more raw exp you are all bringing in over time. This is because of the multiplicative nature of the group exp bonus. For example, assume that your baseline solo exp is 100 exp for a mob that you can kill in 30 seconds. If adding a second player to your group enables you to kill two of those mobs in 30 seconds, your exp flow over those 30 seconds is 20% better (60 * 2 = 120 adjusted exp). If adding a third player to your group enables you to kill three of those mobs in 30 seconds, your exp flow is now 44% better (48 *3 = 144 adjusted exp). And so on.
Of course, there is a practical point of diminishing returns for how much faster a larger group can kill things. In reality, 6 people are not going to kill mobs at 6x the normal solo rate, but even if an entire group of 6 can kill mobs only 3x as fast as you can solo those same mobs, then you're still WAY ahead in terms of exp flow. For example, 6 of you kill a mob that normally yields 100 baseline solo exp. Your adjusted exp for the kill is 41 points ((100 * 2.49) / 6), so killing 3 of those mobs yields 123 adjusted exp for you. That's 23% better exp flow than you could do by yourself.
The basic pattern of "assist" exp
The mechanics of "assist" exp are essentially the same as for group exp, with several differences:
Everyone involved in the kill in any way constitutes a "temporary fellowship" for the purpose of calculating exp, and this number can go much higher than only 6 people.
The group exp bonus is not applied if you are solo when somebody assists you.
The group exp bonus is applied only according to the number of people in the actual fellowship who tags the mob.
Only the person(s) who tag the mob get their share of the final adjusted exp. The involved player(s) who performed the "assist" do not receive their share of the adjusted exp.
Yes, all that can be confusing at first glance so let's elaborate a bit.
You have been "assisted" if you are soloing or fellowing and somebody else comes along and does anything at all to you (or your pet) or your tagged mob during the course of the fight. It does not matter whether their assistance is to buff/heal you, debuff your tagged mob, or damage your tagged mob during the course of your fight. It does not matter if they do only 1 point of actual damage to your mob or they do most of the damage.
When you are assisted in this manner, the game effectively treats the total number of people who did anything regarding the fight as a "temporary group" of sorts and divides up the exp for each person in the "temporary group" without applying the normal fellowship group exp bonus. Only the player(s) who tagged the mob actually gets their share of the exp--the other player(s) who "assisted" do not receive "their share".
So, if you're solo and another solo player "assists" you, then you get exactly 50% of the exp you would have normally gotten for the mob (instead of the 60% you would have gotten if that person had been in a fellowship with you). If a fellowship of 2 players assists you (and you're solo), you get exactly 33% of the exp (instead of the normal 48% you would have gotten if you were all in a fellowship together). If three completely different, random players assist you (none of you are in a fellowship), you get exactly 25% of the exp (instead of the normal 43%). And so on. In all these three examples, you're just dividing your normal "solo" exp by the total number of people who were involved in any way, and remember this includes buffs, debuffs, heals, or anything---not just damage to the mob itself.
The same thing essentially happens if you are in a fellowship and another fellowship "assists" somehow, or if other random solo players assist your fellowship some how. The difference is that since you're in a fellowship, the group exp bonus and all the other group exp mechanics are applied first, so you at least receive the usual bonus exp. Still, though, the other players who are not in your fellowship take their portion and it's "thrown away" just like happens for solo players. So if you're in a fellowship of 3 people and a solo player "assists" your fellowship, you get the group exp bonus for 3 people, but in the last step of the process the baseline group exp is divided by 4 instead of 3. So instead of you getting your normal 144% / 3 share, you instead get a 144% / 4 share (group exp bonus for 3 people but divided by 4 to include the other solo player who "assisted" you).
Why does Turbine do this? Partly to encourage ad-hoc formation of groups when you run into other solo players in the same area where you're hunting. Why not group up if you'll get better exp for it, right? And also to prevent (to some extent) a common technique of power-leveling that is a particular favorite of offshore farming operations, where a high-level player lets a lowbie tag a mob and then the high level player kills it to give huge exp to the lowbie. Unfortunately there is one exploitable bug in this code, but I've reported it to Turbine and hopefully it will be removed in an upcoming patch. And no, please don't ask me what the exploit is and please don't post it if you know it.
Grouping still has its problems but not because of how exp is divided
As you can see, the raw mechanics of group exp are actually quite good. A strong fellowship can easily rake in far more exp flow over time than you could possibly get by soloing on your own.
Instead, the current problems with the overall exp design is based on two facts:
There is a pervasive mis-conception among most of the player base that per-kill exp is very very low compared to quest reward exp, so most people feel that it is far more worthwhile to focus on completing quests instead of just grinding out mobs like so many other games require you to do. In fact, solo killing 12 even-con "white" mobs gives you the same exp on average as one quest reward. (Yes, Epic fellowship quest rewards are higher, but you need a group for most of those anyway.) At pretty much every level, you need to solo-kill the equivalent of roughly 300 "white" mobs to gain enough exp to be promoted to the next level. Once you factor in the group exp bonus, the actual time involved in grinding out mobs becomes even less. For example, you have to kill only around 20 "white" mobs in a duo (10 x 2) to gain the same exp as killing 12 mobs solo, etc. So although "grinding" mobs to level is undesirable by many folks (and you're missing out on the great storytelling in LOTRO), it *is* very feasible and very productive to just take a good group to a fast respawn area and grind your way up. In other words, grinding is pretty much equally feasible to questing as far as leveling speed goes. The moral of this story is that you shouldn't really care whether the fellowship you're in is completing *your* quests or not. You're still getting very good exp flow just by being in a group and reaping the benefits of the group exp bonus.
Quests are very sequential and interrelated rather than being independent. Unlike in WoW, where you could easily share most quests with your teammates, in LOTRO you can share very few quests because chances are very good that your teammates have not performed the prereqs.
Of these two disincentives, one is a false belief/opinion that can be alleviated over time if players spread the word around. The second bullet point, however, can be fixed only by Turbine, and it would require somehow reducing the length of quest chains so that players can more easily "jump in at any point" by having their fellowship members share the current quest they're working on. Long chains are great from a storytelling perspective but are a strong disincentive towards grouping.
I'd suggest that Turbine make the chain completion dependent upon an internal checklist rather than sequential following of a chain from start to finish. In other words, let players do the quests in a chain out of order, but to receive the final quest in the chain they must have first completed the entire "checklist" of the previous quests in the chain.
Ooops. I the first version of the original post, I forgot to copy in the one penalty that happens when you have a group member who is "out of range" for the mobs that you're killing. It's a slight penalty but there nonetheless. I've added in that bit now.
Very helpful guide. Maybe I am just too analytic, but it really helps if I understand how exp is managed and distributed. Good point about the mixed levels in a Fellowship!
When you are assisted in this manner, you get exactly half your normal solo-kill exp for the mob. For example, if the mob would normally give you 100 exp points for a solo kill, you instead get exactly 50 exp points if you are "assisted".
In my experience, this isn't quite right. You get half experience if the person assisting you is solo. If they happen to be in a fellowship (and the members of the fellowship are in xp range), you get even less. So if the assister is in a full fellowship, you could end up getting as little as 1/7th xp.
Hmmm I like pretty much everything except the last part.
How much testing did you do to arrive at
Put these two facts together and THERE is the major disincentive to grouping at the moment. This is still a tough problem for Turbine to fix (my suggestion would be to increase per-kill exp across the board to make questing only *moderately* better than grinding, rather than being incredibly better).
?
Per my calculation, it takes about 10 - 15 mobs (with Rested) to equal the average quest reward at most levels.
Currently at 35, a same level quest will give about 2.5K-3.5K Xp (this is only the xp you get for turning in the quest itself, not including the xp you get for actually comleting it, from fighting mobs to pick up a trinket, save someone, or to collect body parts). A lvl 35 mob will give 150XP non rested, and 300 Xp rested. 300 x 10 = 3000 xp. Now, with enough spawns, a lvl 35 can pretty much mow thru same level mobs, fast enought to really compete with quest rewards. Turn that into a fellowship, and your only limiting factor is the spawn time/points.
Edit:
P.S. And I don't mean to derail this nice thread but I don't know if you believe what you posted here, or was just repeating the "press release"
Why does Turbine do this? To prevent a common technique of power-leveling that is a particular favorite of offshore farming operations. Unfortunately there is one exploitable bug in this code, but I've reported it to Turbine and hopefully it will be removed in an upcoming patch. And no, please don't ask me what the exploit is and please don't post it if you know it.
Based solely on your own thread
Lvl 11 tags a lvl 17 mob (red), Level 25 non fellow friend kills the lvl 17 mob
Lvl 11 gets half XP of a mob 6 levels higher (maybe you have this data?)
x 100
That's still a LOT of power leveling, using the very mechanic that we have right now.
Same scenario, but add that Lvl 11 gets to loot the mob. Picked up 20 body part.
Lvl 11 is now able to turn in a quest that was a Red Fellow grade. More Xp.
P.P.S.
This example actually came to my slow witted mind after I did the very thing. Lvl 27 hunter, helped (in a fellow if it matters) by a lvl 37 champion do a lvl 33 quest, killing aurochs in East Nan for a nice bow. Not only did I get Xp from what should be impossible kills for my lvl, I got to turn in a Red Fellow quest for Xp reward and got a nice bow to boot.
Last edited by JeanCarlo; May 23 2007 at 06:20 PM.
Regarding rested exp, not everyone runs around in a rested state all the time. Granted you can spend DP to purchase rest, but the rest burns out quickly if you play a character every day.
So you might have to kill more like 30 "white" mobs to equal the reward for one simple "go find this clicky" quest. Still, I think your point is well-taken and it is feasible to optimize exp through grinding if you lean that way. (Me? I like storylines and to smell the roses, since this gameworld is rich in both story and scenery.)
As for your comment about "assist" exp, yes it's true that you could find a friend 10 levels above you and go hunt things that are red to you. Friend helps you kill it and you'll still get pretty good exp despite that it's been cut in half. And the loot drops from a red mob will be relatively good.
Yes, this is true, but think how much worse it would be if this type of powerleveling weren't penalized at all. Remember AC1? This type of powerleveling was rampant and widespread and really affected PvP balance on Darktide. As just one example. If you think this basic mechanic (fight red mobs with a friend 10 levels above you) is bad, the exploit to which I referred enables you to get 100 percent exp for something like this.
But now contrast this approach with a much simpler approach that you can do solo. If you go solo 3 light blue mobs, your total exp for the 3 is roughly the same as an orange mob (maybe even a red--it's been a while since I checked this). But you can do it yourself for practically no risk and you get 3 mobs' worth of loot drops from the deal. Same exp, more drops, compared to having a friend help you hunt down reds. In terms of money earned from selling drops, I bet this is a better deal.
Regarding rested exp, not everyone runs around in a rested state all the time. Granted you can spend DP to purchase rest, but the rest burns out quickly if you play a character every day.
Agreed. However, if played differently (not necessarily correct or even optimal, just different), with 5 chars, you can literally play every day and always have a FULL Level of Blue bar.
So you might have to kill more like 30 "white" mobs to equal the reward for one simple "go find this clicky" quest. Still, I think your point is well-taken and it is feasible to optimize exp through grinding if you lean that way. (Me? I like storylines and to smell the roses, since this gameworld is rich in both story and scenery.)
Again, nothing really to do with personal (yours, or mine) preference in how to play the game. Just pointing out that in fact, Fellowing (or even solo play) can in fact yield you better than Quests. Another point which you raised is money. Barring some bizarre set of circumstances, 1 hour in a fellow will most likely yield you a lot less sellable loot compared to when you're solo.
Yes, this is true, but think how much worse it would be if this type of powerleveling weren't penalized at all. Remember AC1? This type of powerleveling was rampant and widespread and really affected PvP balance on Darktide. As just one example. If you think this basic mechanic (fight red mobs with a friend 10 levels above you) is bad, the exploit to which I referred enables you to get 100 percent exp for something like this.
Understood, and thanks for not sharing this I already have a hard time NOT leveling as it is My point however is that the mechanic can be 100% better if altered; not removed. One solution I prefer is to lock the mob to the tagger, i.e. no one else can touch it with any action. If player needs help, the tagger can unlock the mob, but XP goes away for everyone involved. No power leveling what so ever. AC... was too young
[list][*]Per-kill exp is very very low compared to quest reward exp, which makes it far more worthwhile to focus on completing quests instead of just grinding out mobs like so many other games require you to do. This is a good thing by itself, but not when you put it together with the next point...
Overall, very nice work, but this statement couldn't be more wrong. I've found this has held true for every level up to 37, and I have no reason to believe it's not going to hold true passed this: 12 solo mobs give roughly the same experience as 1 quest; it takes approximately 300 solo mobs to level
The big difference is that for quests, the exp doesn't get divided while it does for groups. Per-kill exp is only very low if you consistently group with full or mostly full groups. For soloing, duoing, and trios, mob exp is going to be the bulk of your experience. For larger groups, you'll have to do far more quests to keep up, and you're very likely to run out.
Overall, very nice work, but this statement couldn't be more wrong. I've found this has held true for every level up to 37, and I have no reason to believe it's not going to hold true passed this: 12 solo mobs give roughly the same experience as 1 quest; it takes approximately 300 solo mobs to level
The big difference is that for quests, the exp doesn't get divided while it does for groups. Per-kill exp is only very low if you consistently group with full or mostly full groups. For soloing, duoing, and trios, mob exp is going to be the bulk of your experience. For larger groups, you'll have to do far more quests to keep up, and you're very likely to run out.
Alright, I've heard two comments to this effect so far, so I'll amend that section a bit. Certainly the popular conception so far, among most players, is that quest exp = teh uber, and that's one of the contributing factors to a reluctance to group up.
Anecdote from last night: my partner and I were duo-ed up with some alts in a tougher section of Ered Luin. We encountered this lone person who was kinda low for the area standing at the edge of one of the goblin-dense parts, and he was pulling the one lone goblin at the edge, killing it, and then waiting for 3 minutes for that same lone goblin to respawn. I asked if this person wanted to join us, and they declined. Events like this are very symptomatic of the widespread feeling that grouping somehow kills your exp, which is part of the reason I wrote this guide.
Your points regarding the difficulties regarding sharing quests with others is well-taken. I really really like the quest/story focus of this game, but feel that quests would be a lot easier to share and navigate if they weren't so often presented as long chains. I don't think having quests written more commonly as stand-alones or as part of much shorter chains would really take away from the game's story-emphasis and would definitely encourage people to group up more often and adventure together!
Alright, I've heard two comments to this effect so far, so I'll amend that section a bit. Certainly the popular conception so far, among most players, is that quest exp = teh uber, and that's one of the contributing factors to a reluctance to group up.
...snip....
Not totally out of topic lol, but this popular conception has greyed more hairs on my head than anything else in this game Part and partial to your posting is the loss of XP when someone "helps" you but not in the fellow. People's argument is that kill Xp is so low. My counter has always been that they need to pay more attention next time they turn in a quest, and when they get XP from a regular kill.
Alright, I've heard two comments to this effect so far, so I'll amend that section a bit. Certainly the popular conception so far, among most players, is that quest exp = teh uber, and that's one of the contributing factors to a reluctance to group up.
Anecdote from last night: my partner and I were duo-ed up with some alts in a tougher section of Ered Luin. We encountered this lone person who was kinda low for the area standing at the edge of one of the goblin-dense parts, and he was pulling the one lone goblin at the edge, killing it, and then waiting for 3 minutes for that same lone goblin to respawn. I asked if this person wanted to join us, and they declined. Events like this are very symptomatic of the widespread feeling that grouping somehow kills your exp, which is part of the reason I wrote this guide.
Well it does in some ways, but your guide is already quick to point out that you get less exp off more mobs in the same amount of time and come out ahead. You do have to kill more mobs if you group, but you should easily be able to kill them faster. The perception that mob exp is inconsequential has got to go, particularly because it leads to some very rude behavior under the pretext of helpfulness, particularly for a soloer. The value of mob exp is one of the reasons pursuing the slayer traits is very helpful when you start running low on quests (if the mobs are the appropriate level).
PS. I fully agree with how you rephrased it, and shall now link it ad nauseam to everyone who says, "Pft mob exp doesn't matter"
In my experience, this isn't quite right. You get half experience if the person assisting you is solo. If they happen to be in a fellowship (and the members of the fellowship are in xp range), you get even less. So if the assister is in a full fellowship, you could end up getting as little as 1/7th xp.
Brillig, thanks for this bit of info. Based on your description and some additional testing, I've figured out the full extent of the way "assist" exp mechanics work. I've amended that section in the original post accordingly. It's a bit more complex to understand but it should be accurate.
I've also just revised the final paragraph or two of the original post to better describe what the real problem with grouping is, and have offered a suggestion to Turbine about how that problem can be mitigated entirely.
Has any analysis been done on how proximity affects XP gain in fellowships? I.e., something like:
* 0-100 meters away from your fellow when he kills a mob, you get 100% xp
* 101-200 meters away, you get 50%
* 201+ meters away, you get 0%
I know there's some cutoff point beyond which you get no XP when a fellow kills something. I have no idea if this is an all-or-nothing threshold or if there's a sliding scale (i.e., the further away you are the less you get). Anyone have any data?
Has any analysis been done on how proximity affects XP gain in fellowships? I.e., something like:
* 0-100 meters away from your fellow when he kills a mob, you get 100% xp
* 101-200 meters away, you get 50%
* 201+ meters away, you get 0%
I know there's some cutoff point beyond which you get no XP when a fellow kills something. I have no idea if this is an all-or-nothing threshold or if there's a sliding scale (i.e., the further away you are the less you get). Anyone have any data?
It's an all or nothing threshold. Never tried to measure the distance. Be there or be square. =)
Yep, very good info. I suspected they did a lot of what you detailed Shannog. They did the same thing in AC1 when they revamped fellows there. For a long time, being in a team was a bit of a penalty.
As for mob xp being inconsequential... heh, if one doesn't pay attention to it, one ends up wondering where all their rested xp vanished to.
One solution I prefer is to lock the mob to the tagger, i.e. no one else can touch it with any action. If player needs help, the tagger can unlock the mob, but XP goes away for everyone involved. No power leveling what so ever. AC... was too young
I like this idea, and it was implemented in EverQuest 2. I've heard that it was later taken out of EQ2 due to player demand.
I'd be interested if anyone knows why it was removed (assuming it was).
Not totally out of topic lol, but this popular conception has greyed more hairs on my head than anything else in this game Part and partial to your posting is the loss of XP when someone "helps" you but not in the fellow. People's argument is that kill Xp is so low. My counter has always been that they need to pay more attention next time they turn in a quest, and when they get XP from a regular kill.
In my experience, the quickest way to get XP is to do a soloable quests where you have to kill X amount of white or yellow mobs. You are then getting (at lvl 35) about 300 per kill, plus the quest xp. I was in Evendim last night doing one of the Tomb Robber kill quests, had to kill 24 (plus extras that aggro'd), so got almost 8k xp from that, plus 3k + xp for the quest. That's a decent sized chunk of my next level. Sorry for not being completely accurate with how much xp i got, I don't write things down as I play.
At the same time, I would just rather team up with someone else to do quests because you might lose some xp/hour in theory (per mob kill, etc.) but you can hammer out quests a heck of a lot faster doing it this way, especially if you are having to wander around looking for somethin/someone.
So again, it is style of play, and for those of us in no rush to get to lvl 50 fellowshipping for quests is the way to go. In fact, when I am in an area and see someone else clearly working on the same soloable quest, i will still always ask if they want to team up just so i can meet new people.
I'm really sorry to necropost. But I'm curious if anyone has figured out how the exp scales based on the mob color, and what level ranges those colors match to?
Thanks to all for the amount of work that went into this. Looks like you needed a math degree to get all that figured out. Here's how I figure it though.....whatever number pops up as XP, then that's what I get, cause I can't change it anyway.
I'm really sorry to necropost. But I'm curious if anyone has figured out how the exp scales based on the mob color, and what level ranges those colors match to?
I was searching for the same information and haven't found it anywhere. I'm hoping someone has detailed this and I've just missed it.
But essentially, I was wanting to better understand how the solo "baseline" XP is determined based on character level and critter level.
I was curious because I noticed the other day I was 39th level and a friend was 38th. But we both got the exact same XP for different critters. Thinking it might be "color band" based, we even tried mobs at the "color breakpoint" where it was Orange to me and Red for him. But we still got the exact same XP.
I've read the XP in Fellowships article so know how the party XP changes from solo XP, but that's not the issue. The article simply doesn't address how the "baseline" XP is derrived. It simply implies that higher level characters get less XP that lower level characters for the same creature. But this wasn't our experience and wondered if we were just too close in level or what.
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Originally Posted by Shannong
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I already have a hard time NOT leveling as it is 
My point however is that the mechanic can be 100% better if altered; not removed. One solution I prefer is to lock the mob to the tagger, i.e. no one else can touch it with any action. If player needs help, the tagger can unlock the mob, but XP goes away for everyone involved. No power leveling what so ever. AC... was too young 
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Re: A complete guide to exp mechanics
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