This thread serves as a good reminder to people's obliviousness in much of what they say.
It's much simpler than you discuss; it's simply that openly saying you don't want X in your kinship is strongly implying that X is bad. But it's a fundamental rule for respect towards your fellow human beings that things falling into category X (go back some pages if you missed the examples) do NOT make people desirable or undesirable.
There's also the simple fact that you're discriminating based on a real-life demographic that you're rather powerless to actually verify - the very verification of which would not be proper.
It's not in who you deem worthy. You can decide to exclude any group you feel like. Just keep the reason to yourself if it's based on bigotry lest you insult a massive chunk of the planet's population by a statement you intend to throw at a single individual.
Eve of Silverlode (65 Guardian)
Zatherine of Brandywine (44 Guardian, Angmar Closed Beta)
I have agreed to the EULA and will abide by it. However I can't let this pass without comment.
I realize that Turbine is just trying to keep the peace with these rules but it is still absurd. If people want to have a kinship of one legged, black, Jewish people who follow Hinduism and only invite such people to the kinship, what does it matter? Is it somehow holier to make the criteria just "well we just don't like you" and deny membership based upon that?
People of all walks of life feel more comfortable with others who are similar, whether or not this is a cultural, religious, or other similarity. That is why they congregate together. If someone wants to have a Jewish kinship and only invite orthodox Jews for example, how does this hurt anyone? Inside of their kinship they then know that they have this in common and don't have to feel the need to tiptoe around others who are not Jewish so as not to offend or even feel the need to explain Hebrew catch phases to the newbie. (Are there Hebrew catch phrases? Still you get the point.)
It seems to me that the rules governing free speech are taken to an extreme in this case. I think most people understand why profanity is filtered by default, and that Turbine is not going to let a kinship called, "Nazi White Power Racists" exist on their servers. This offends the majority of people in the world. Majority rules. But that different than saying you can't deny membership based upon a kinship theme. You know what? An atheist who is allowed to join a Christian themed kinship and becomes offended, joined that kinship specifically to get offended and cause trouble. If I don't speak German or live in Germany, I know that a German kinship is not going to work out for me. Why should they be forced to allow me in if they know that the point of the kinship would be lost on an English speaking person from the USA? Why should their right to be selective about their membership be curtailed simply for some sophomoric idealism that states I should be MADE to fit in, despite the theme.
Yes this is a small issue and no I won't have any problems following the guidelines laid out by Turbine. But it should be noted that Turbine's efforts to go to such lengths to not offend anyone has failed. I am offended. Online gaming is my way of letting off steam after a hard day in a politically correct corporate environment. I don't like the fact that I have to worry about who might be offended in a virtual world.
Yes this is a small issue and no I won't have any problems following the guidelines laid out by Turbine. But it should be noted that Turbine's efforts to go to such lengths to not offend anyone has failed. I am offended. Online gaming is my way of letting off steam after a hard day in a politically correct corporate environment. I don't like the fact that I have to worry about who might be offended in a virtual world.
It's not an issue of avoiding offending people. It's an issue of avoiding the inevitable and almost impossible to win lawsuits.
Ok, what if you wanted to start a kinship that didn't allow illegal aliens? Would that fall under the nationality restriction, since you're only allowing people of your nation in?
This is the first of many holes in your - and the entire 'open border' crowd's argument. The keyword is legality versus illegality, not alien versus citizen. An anti-illegal alien rule is not an anti alien rule. Let's agree to not discuss this further, as it would violate the forum rules of not discussing politics.
Originally Posted by Bruiserk
If that's so, what if you ... people from other countries are allowed in, but only if they are living in the country...
I see no reasonable excuse for making one's RL immigration status a requirement, or disqualification, for membership in an IG organization as such status in no way affects said IG organization.
Building on the example set forth by various replies above: If I run a Christian themed kinship and a Satanist, Wiccan, Atheist, or other 'non-Christian' wants to join, having them in the kinship poses no threat unless they act in a manner which is disrespectful to Christians.
And yes, I do practice what I preach. I am a self-professed homophobe (though it has nothing to do with the kinship theme) and yet our kinship has openly gay/lesbian members. I can, and often do speak in Kinchat about my fiance; therefore, I have no problem with a homosexual in OAK speaking about their partner. Just so long as they dont say anything hateful about straight people, it is none of my business - nor anyone else's - what goes on outside of Middle Earth.
On a more general note, if I'm looking for a Kinship by theme, (i.e Christian, Hobbit, U.S West Coast, etc.) is there a way I can do that?
It is quite legal to post that you are looking for a Christian Kin, a Hobbit, kin or even a West Coast Kin.
What is not legal is to force members to be Christian, from the west coast etc...
Going into these Kins you must realize that there may well be a few or many who are not, West Coast or Christian.
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If I make a Kin and call it "Disciples of Christ", obviously a Christian kin. I can say that we are recruiting for our Christian kin.
I can not say that we are recruiting only Christians for our Christian kin and then force members to be Christian.
We can recruit players and openly discuss Christianity and Jesus, this is protected. We just can't force you to discuss it, nor
can we force you to be a Christian.
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Think of it as a high school boys football team. I can call it a Boys Football team, I can not however force women to not play.
If a woman joins the Boys Football team the name maybe misleading, but that is ok as long as we openly allow women to join and
we make reasonable accommodations for these women to be able to participate in a non-offensive and non-threatening way toward women.
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Originally Posted by War_Council
Re: Kinship Themes
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