One note, we’ll be as open as possible with our answers, but please be aware that development priorities are prone to shifting. #LOTRO
Our answers reflect our current plans and expectations, but are subject to change. #LOTRO
Let's begin... #LOTRO
Q1 Jchudz - Mostly I'd like to get a straightforward answer as to why the whole power/fate revamp in u10 was implemented in the first place. A1a Sure thing. Standardizing power and revising fate, in combination, give us more options for how we create rewards and items.
A1b The changes also allow us to more accurately/clearly cost abilities. A lot of the pre-standardized costing was all over the place.
A1c In order to properly compare skills and items, we needed to get closer to a consistent standard on these stats.
A1d All of this in sum will make the class revisions easier to both implement on our end and understand on your end (I hope!). -HoarseDev
Q2 Milithion - Any plans to extend the area of the Ettenmoors? #LOTRO A2 Jinjaah - None at the moment. #LOTRO
Q3 MRWarg - Are the major class revamps being made with PvMP in mind? #LOTRO A3 Jinjaah - There are certainly some pvmp considerations being made in the revamp. #LOTRO
Q4 Peter_Pan – Do you have any plans to implement a system that allows master looter to be used in combination with remote looting? #LOTRO A4 JWB - No plans as of now. We're pretty happy overall with how remote looting is working in instances. #LOTRO
Q4 Ehil - Are you planning to phase in any new legacy for our LIs contributing to new skills during class-revamp? #LOTRO A4 Jared – We will be looking at the existing Legacies as well as adding new legacies where needed, going forward. #LOTRO
Q5 Fidzy_the_humble - When will we be able to send multiple items in a single mail? A5 We’re looking at better ways to transfer items more efficiently. Multiple items in mails is on that list but we’ve got a lot to evaluate. - HoarseDev
Q6 Vulcan583 -Any plans to rework the Lore master’s blue line? #LOTRO A6 Jared – All lines of all classes are being examined. #LOTRO
Q7 Aleatar - With the future class revamp, are there any plans to make the trait system more determinant in the classes. #LOTRO A7 Jared - Absolutely. We want the selection of a trait line to be vital part of the player’s progression and as such, each
A7a line should be distinct and exciting. #LOTRO
Q8 Tangaar -Is there going to be some revamp on BA skills cool-down or any kind of revamp? #LOTRO A8 Jinjaah - We feel the black arrow is in a great spot compared to some other creep classes at the moment. #LOTRO
Q9 Tirian_Hammerfist - Any info that can be spared about the Player Council would be very welcome! #LOTRO A9 Sapience – We’re targeting early March to unveil the full details. We’ve incorporated a lot of your feedback into our plans. #LOTRO
Q10 SabrielofLorien - What types of ideas are there for solo players to have end game play similar to what is offered to the raiding community? #LOTRO A10 JWB - Hytbold was much more succesful than we anticipated. We'll continue to explore things like that and other options to give everyone something compelling, engaging, and rewarding to do at cap. #LOTRO
Q11 Oldin - Any thoughts on going back to the old system of looting? #LOTRO A11 JWB - Just one *preps the Dana Carvey voice* Not Gonna Do It. #LOTRO
Q12 Squelcher - Sapience, will there be PVMP representatives from both factions on the Player Council? #LOTRO A12 Sapience – Yes. Part of the application will ask for your class and play preferences. #LOTRO
Q13 YageerSilverscale - While developing Draigoch's lair the dev team mentioned a CJ revamp. Do you still have plans on that? #LOTRO A13 JWB - Yes. Once the dust has settled from the class updates and we're prepping content these will have more relevance in I'm hoping to get this done. #LOTRO
Q14 AlmericITA - Since we have brand new servers, will be any chance for inter-server activities? Shared PvMP zone, Shared Instance finder #LOTRO A14 Jared – Cross Server is something we would like to do, but there are a lot of technical hurdles that must be overcome. #LOTRO
Q15 Fidzy_the_humble -Will we be able to send mail to people on other server? A15 No time soon =/ - HoarseDev
Q16 Interactii - Why don't you expose more of the system team’s intent behind changes to users? A16a Workin’ on it. This year with regular dev chats and some changes to the format of some dev diaries we’re going to move in that direction.
A16b Some of our dev diaries read more like manuals than actual diaries. It can be hard to transition from technical to personal writing.
A16c Kelsan’s will always read like manuals because he has no soul. - HoarseDev
Q17 Atriohm - Any thoughts on a new pvmp map? #LOTRO A17 Jinjaah - Not at this time. #LOTRO
Q18 reDot - Who is burg dev? #LOTRO A18 Jared – I’ll be taking on the role of Burglar Dev. #LOTRO
Q19 xDementedx -Will there be a major revamp to the current system of PvMP or are you only looking into improvements/bugfixes this year? #LOTRO A19 Jinjaah -Mainly improvements and bug fixes this year. #LOTRO
Q20 Raven-EU - How will the "Player Council" affect your other feedback program: the Bullroarer server? #LOTRO A20 Sapience – We see feedback as a progression. Our thinking is Council, Palantir, Bullroarer, live. #LOTRO
Q21 Alyselle - Is there any multi boss raid (like Orthanc) planned in the near future? #LOTRO A21 JWB - Currently, the instance team is working on prototyping the Helm's Deep experience. #LOTRO
Q22 Joene -Moria got a nice revamp. Are you planning on doing this on pre-Moria content? #LOTRO A22 JWB - As time allows we will continue to revamp the older regions of the game. #LOTRO
Q23 MrWarg - Can you give us any more information on the major class revamps taking place later in the year? #LOTRO A23 Jared – Our goal is to reduce the hybrid-homogenized nature of our classes while bringing definition and excitement to the primary role of each line. #LOTRO
Q24 Dotfive - Any plans for a new class? #LOTRO A24 Jared – Not at this time. We feel the revamp is going to breathe a lot of new life into the existing classes. #LOTRO
Q25 AlmericITA - New PvMP Zone in sight, even far away? #LOTRO A25 Jinjaah - Not in sight. #LOTRO
Q26 @BhorisThe Spider – One of the reasons for Audacity was to introduce ‘seasonal’ armour sets for the moors. When is the next season? #LOTRO A26 HoarseDev - A little after u10… 10.1 or 11 methinks. Weapons hopefully as well.#LOTRO
Q27 YageerSilverscale - Will we ever see any MC instance / part of instance ? #LOTRO A27 JWB - It's on the to-do list at some point, no current eta. #LOTRO
Q28 Morneniel- Will we ever get a house per character? My poor dwarf never liked elves for roommates and can't wait to move out A28a This is… well, we’re looking at how to get this to work. I would say unlikely for the first round of housing improvements.
A28b Getting some good fixes for existing housing issues is a bigger priority right now. -HoarseDev
Q29 Tirian_Hammerfist - Any plans to introduce a new creep class, simply for the sake of keeping things fresh? #LOTRO A29 Jinjaah - We have had conversations about adding some new creep classes. #LOTRO
Q30 Aleatar- Will the housing revamp provide some benefits to the players or will remain as something merely cosmetic? A30 Man I hope so. We are in the midst of prototyping and evaluating our options. Sorry for the flakey answer there but I can’t really nail this down this month. - HoarseDev
Q31 Kajil -Is the hunter class ever going to see something along the lines of a strong, instant self-heal/HOT or instant B/P/E buff? #LOTRO A31 Jared – It’s not out of the realm of possibility, but I’d prefer something other than a heal for survivability. #LOTRO
Q32 Aleatar Any firm plans to revamp the kinship system once that you are done with the housing? A32 Firm? No. Deeply desired? Yes. - HoarseDev
Q33 @Miesse can we please please have a trait panel setup that lets us save trait loadouts and name them like for MC? #LOTRO A33 Hoarsedev - Yes.
Q34 @DaniAngione Why not make currency (money) shared like marks and such? Kind of annoying to mail money to yourself #LOTRO
A34 JWB - We see as many requests not to do this as we do to do it.
Q35 @TryenTakmion it seems as if the fate change has made fate more necessary than other stats especially for medium classes any plans to fix this
A35 HoarseDev The fate changes aren't fire and forget. #LOTRO
A35a We'll be tuning regularly going forward. #LOTRO
Q36 @sethbar1 How can the devs fully grasp the needs of a class when they are working with multiple classes and moving around so much?
A36 HoarseDev this pass on classes is intended to address their interactions as a whole in groups.
A36a We have to look at them all at the same time in order to see "how each piece fits into the puzzle."
a36b (Quotes from JWB)
Q37 ekimkaerf2 Approximately when will the class revisions begin? #LOTRO
A37 Jared - Internal dev is underway.
A37a JWB - much of what you are seeing with stat changes and itemization changes
A37b and combat mechanics are foundational. It will all suppport our class changes later this year.
Q38 @TurthinSwiftbow People are wondering if Champs will have shields returned to the class?..#LOTRO
A38 Jinjaah - No shields will not be returning for champs. #LOTRO
Q39 @ellohir I love Lotteries, are there any more fun "event" lottos coming? I missed something for Valentine's Day #lotro
A39 Sapience. Keep an eye on lotteries this weekend. #LOTRO
Q40 @pebelas Will it be possible to place our stuff freely after the housing revamp or will you keep the fixed system as it is now #LOTRO
A40 HoarseDev - I would like to see better placement rules for deco objects in houses. #LOTRO
Q41 @JimMarshallNC What was the purpose for the warden stat change? In other words what affect are you going for?
A41 Jared - It simplifies our itemization scheme to have all medium armour classes utilize agility as a primary stat.
Q42 @Pasimii Any plans to get away from PvE in the Ettenmoors?
A42 jinjaah We have been over the past few updates.
A42a and we will continue to make it more PVMP centric.
A42b Jared - The purpose of keeps and outposts is to use PVE to instigate PVP.
Q43 @this_xenonn Will the class revisions fix the Loremaster's very under powered pets? #LOTRO #DEVCHAT
A43 Jared Yes. As part of the class revamp we hope to make pets an important part of all pet classes.
Q44 @anders_halt when comes U10? Any infos? #LOTRO
A44 Rowan - Early MArch. #LOTRO
Q45 @plambert Will you consider giving Founders some small priority in joining the Player Council? #LOTRO
A45 Sapience All groups will recieve equal consideration. We won't be playing favorites. #LOTRO
Q46 @pebelas Another housing-question: will empty houses from inactive players be available to rent again? #LOTRO
A46 HoarseDev We're working out a reasonable foreclosure solution.
A46a to free up those long empty houses. #LOTRO
Q47 @dAmionGER Will NPC-stats in skirmish (Elrohir e.g.) be scaled in sometime, too? Currently, they are more a obstruction than a help. #LOTRO
A47 JWB No. In solo spaces they are meant to be a help.
A47a In group spaces they are meant to be part of the challenge.
Q48 @Pasimii Are there any plans to edit racial skills/traits?
A48 Jared It's definitely something we're looking to do in the future.
A48a Probably after the class updates.
Q49 @Bloodspill Any chance for a veggie friendly feasting table/fire pit type housing item? #lotro
A49 HoarseDev It's an interesting idea.
Thanks guys. That's our time for today. We apologize for the technical snags, they slowed us down a bit. #lotro
Bonus Questions. Due to today's technical issues on Twitter, we've answered these additional Questions
BQ1 Raven-EU - What do you think will be the biggest benefit that you and your team will reap from the "Player Council"?
BA1 Rowan I’m looking forward to the personal interaction with a group of dedicated players. We were able to have some design discussion around classes with “LOTRO’s Biggest Fan” when he was here in the office last year, and it was hugely valuable. I’ve had a few opportunities to do this at community events as well, both in the United States (PAX) and Europe (gamescom). Nothing beats talking through ideas directly.
BQ2 Nubcat - A few creep players (especially us girls) were saying how cool it would be to play a female creep (Angmarim, perhaps). What is the chances of that, or any new creep class, being introduced to the game?
BA2 Jinjaah - I think having a new creep class be female is a great idea.
BQ3 Bastiat1 - Can you please explain the design decision to have the single best in slot item in the game (Horse-lords bracelets) drop primarily from over-land level 85 trash mobs? What objective were the designers trying to achieve?
BA3 JWB - There are a lot of equipment slots and upgrades available in game. The best thing for absolutely every slot shouldn't be relegated to only 1 type of content.
BQ4 Bastiat1 - In contrast to the last four raids (DN, BG, OD, Orthanc), the coming raid is three isolated single encounters as opposed to a multi-boss progression raid. Does this signal a design philosophy change at Turbine with respect to raiding? If not, is there a multi-boss progression raid on the development list for the future? If so, when? If not, why?
BA4 JWB - Not a shift at all, for this story and location having 3 separate encounters fit better. The story of the cluster being made drives the structure of that cluster and raids.
BQ5 Kajil - Will the numerous hunter skills and traits (specifically, Bow of the Righteous, Press Onward, Strength of the Earth, Agile Rejoinder, assorted legendary item legacies, etc) that are currently under-scaled or out-of-date be scaled to perform up-to-par with other class's skills?
BA5 Jared – Anything and everything is up for revision with the class revamps.
BQ6 Waylen -Threat generation by tanks appears to not scale proportionally to dps. Will you be addressing this issue at some point? Also Threat itself is very murky do you have any plans for making it a bit more transparent?
BA6 Jared – Yes. Threat has been the topic of many design discussions recently and we agree that the system is not particularly user friendly and it’s something we want to address.
BQ7 Raven-EU - On an average day, how much time do you (and your colleges in the OCR team) spend "cracking the whips" on the forums and how much is spent on other stuff, like thinking up cool ways to make the player base excited?
BA7 Sapience – It would probably surprise most people that it’s the inverse of what they expect. Moderation is really one of the smaller parts of our jobs. In fact we have a team of moderators who deal with most of it so the Community team can focus on other things. The bulk of our time is spent gathering feedback for the various teams in the building; including everyone from the dev team to executives. We spend a lot of time coming up with ideas like these dev chats, screen shot contests, supporting fan sites, helping community leaders on each server create great events, the upcoming Player Council, lotteries, trivia, and organizing real world events like the PAX player parties.
BQ8 Spartiotis - Hi, will we get new guilded crafted recipe's to counteract the whole fate power/crit changes or will the current recipe's simply be changed. Also, can you give us a rough time as when U10 will be launched pls?
BA8 HoarseDev - There will be several passes on recipes. Some will be new recipes. In a lot of cases we will change existing recipes to accommodate the stat changes. -HoarseDev
BQ9 Brya - Can you share any ideas you're considering for the housing revamp? Will we be able to get more storage?
BA9 Just ideas for this month but… more/better storage, better item placement rules, ways to display armor/weapons.
We’re evaluating our options and will keep you posted. - HorseDev
BQ10 Delaney - In the class revamps, will underused class trait lines be re-evaluted to encourage their use again, such as the burg MM line?
BA10 Not so much lines as trees, but yeah, that is central to the changes coming.
While we will never get to the point that every build will be equally popular we do think that we can make your character build full of rewarding choices. - HoarseDev
Last edited by Sapience; Feb 21 2013 at 04:36 PM.
Rick Heaton, Community Manager, The Lord of the Rings Online.
Revamping older spaces? This I am kind of not a fan of. It kind of alienates me from the older areas and kills the nostalgia factor. Also, I really like the older method of quest pick ups. Whenever I get a new character to the Esteldin area, I have a total blast with the absolute flooding of things to do. If that content were to be linearized a la most new content and revamped stuff, I would be a sad panda. Maybe it's just me, but I think the older stuff is still high quality and it is what hooked me in the first place.
Townsperson says, "I'm having an adventure. I've paddled all the way from Frogmorton!"
I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. ~ Faramir
I saw many questions about Ettenmoors, but the most important question must have slipped away. Will you do anything to reduce the horrible lag some of us Snowbourn freeps experience in Ettens? I'm talking about the 10-20 sec skill lag we have when there's more than 1 raid vs 1 raid at the same spot.
Q5 Fidzy_the_humble - When will we be able to send multiple items in a single mail? A5 We’re looking at better ways to transfer items more efficiently. Multiple items in mails is on that list but we’ve got a lot to evaluate. - HoarseDev
Sending multiple mail attachments would be awesome. Know what else would be awesome? Having my mail/AH windows remember their positions when I move them, just like my bags do. Nothing is more annoying than moving the compose mail window near my bags to attach an item, sending the mail then repeating the process 10-20 times.
Originally Posted by Sapience
BQ9 Brya - Can you share any ideas you're considering for the housing revamp? Will we be able to get more storage?
BA9 Just ideas for this month but… more/better storage, better item placement rules, ways to display armor/weapons.
We’re evaluating our options and will keep you posted. - HorseDev
If houses get cosmetic weapons/shields before players we should revolt! lol
I heartily detest skill trees. I love the current system of class traits and its flexibility; I am not a fan of skill trees (be it druids, mounts or anything else).
For goodness sake, please do not break what we have.
Last edited by Arachnella; Feb 21 2013 at 05:33 PM.
Spiders in V1Pre-B13: 8-legged menace. B13: 8-legged bait. B14: 8-legged trap... no more! B15/MoM: 8-legged *splat!* Spiders in V2B7: We cope. B8: FotM? B9: 8-legged menace. Spiders in V3B3: Mourning for my hatchlings.
I heartily detest skill trees. I love the current system of class traits and its flexibility; I am not a fan of skill trees for the mounts.
For goodness sake, do not break what we have.
I have played games that had trees. I have played games that don't. I don't see any particular difference in flexibility in the end (probably just me, there). There are limits either way. Some find trees more intuitive. Others don't. Mixing them I don't see as possible from the implementation point of view. Implementation details will, I think, matter greatly.
I heartily detest skill trees. I love the current system of class traits and its flexibility; I am not a fan of skill trees (be it druids, mounts or anything else.
For goodness sake, please do not break what we have.
That's not how I read the question. I think a better way to put it is, 'Can we have a system that allows us to quickly change traits without visiting the Bard?'
Call me lazy, but I hate going to the Bard to change traits whenever I switch roles. Being able to switch on the fly, with an interface similar to the MC trait panel, would be a huge quality-of-life improvement. Over and above that, being able to save multiple traitlines is an even greater improvement.
Ya Talent Trees? This makes me sad. One of the things that seemed uniquely LOTRO was how their trait system worked and was so simple yet detailed. Seeing the talent tree system enter LOTRO in MC turned me off.
Q32 Aleatar Any firm plans to revamp the kinship system once that you are done with the housing?
A32 Firm? No. Deeply desired? Yes. - HoarseDev
In retrospect it seems that we had a missed opportunity with the Hytbold rebuild. I mean to suggest that next time a worthwhile endeavor would be a rebuild specific to a kinship.
It's one thing to bond with others through the course of raiding but building the home of your kinship within the context of how Hytbold was implemented adds another opportunity! Another idea is a rebuild that ultimately creates a neighborhood be it comprised of individual homes, kinship mini-thanes, or a mixed housing zone.
Just some food for thought about an opportunity to grow the Hytbold experience.
I started keeping track and it's looking like a shutout with Chuck - 3 : That Guy - 0.
Q34 @DaniAngione Why not make currency (money) shared like marks and such? Kind of annoying to mail money to yourself #LOTRO
A34 JWB - We see as many requests not to do this as we do to do it.
Wait, what? Who wouldn't want this? Failing to see how shared gold would be bad.
I hope the player council will help having a better communication with the developers on touchy subjects such as class revamps and loot distribution.
The answer of Mr Barry on the legendary items did not please me, not the answers regarding the survivability of the hunters skills.
It feels as a one way decision, because I say so, because I the dev know better what you want than you the player do. If if I don't feel feedback is acknowledged, I mean why wasting my time giving it? That's independant of just being in disagreement.
Other than that, the comment on the housing system makes it look promising, particularly the armours display. I can't wait for that one.
Q32 Aleatar Any firm plans to revamp the kinship system once that you are done with the housing?
A32 Firm? No. Deeply desired? Yes. - HoarseDev
In retrospect it seems that we had a missed opportunity with the Hytbold rebuild. I mean to suggest that next time a worthwhile endeavor would be a rebuild specific to a kinship.
It's one thing to bond with others through the course of raiding but building the home of your kinship within the context of how Hytbold was implemented adds another opportunity! Another idea is a rebuild that ultimately creates a neighborhood be it comprised of individual homes, kinship mini-thanes, or a mixed housing zone.
Just some food for thought about an opportunity to grow the Hytbold experience.
I think this is a great idea. Crafting a kin fortress that gets attacked periodically and requires the kin to protect it would be epic.
Once again, no update on when fixes to the Mac client are coming, if ever. Instead we had questions about the class revamps and new zone for PvMP answered multiple times.
I appreciate that we have a client and it's beta, but can we at least get an answer that changes are being done to it?
Or will we forever have to watch it download every load screen for every language any time I load the client up?
"Q23 MrWarg - Can you give us any more information on the major class revamps taking place later in the year? #LOTRO
A23 Jared – Our goal is to reduce the hybrid-homogenized nature of our classes while bringing definition and excitement to the primary role of each line. #LOTRO"
This is rather terrifying for a solo player, and especially for a solo minstrel player. I hope the devs remember that the reason a lot of introvert reader types play this game is because it IS more solo-friendly than other MMORPGs.
With the changes to stats, what will happen to old quest rewards? In some cases, there are four choices - none of which seem to prepare players for even a well-balances upper level character. In many cases, the rewards are so out-of-date that some of the quest rewards, if used in the normal course of leveling up, would make absolutely no sense. It's not just that, either. The old recipes don't really make sense. I'm not suggesting that all armour be "cookie cutter" in nature and just scaled, but there is no rhyme or reason.
I would think that tailoring the recipes along the lines of racial (dwarf made armour, made by dwarves, helps the wearer become more mighty and hit harder, since they are hardier as a race/elven made armours tend to focus on inner strength, like power and morale regeneration, fate since it is fading in them as a people, and agility/westernesse or just plain man made armours focusing on vitality and strength of will and resistance since mortality and the threat of corruption are such a concern).
I would think tailoring recipes based on what the race wanted to protect themselves against makes sense (all are concerned with all the statistics, but as a WHOLE, the average would be based on a race if it couldn't be based on a class, which the weaponry COULD be based on).
Anyway, that's my question: in leveling another character, the scarcity of actual useful quest rewards is extremely apparent. If you want more life in the game, make growing new characters attractive...not just racing them to an end game that you have to constantly be on top of, because that is clearly unsustainable.
I personally really like the idea of a new trait "Tree" system, versus the current trait system. WoW had a "Tree" type system that worked for years. They recently changed it to that of a line and it has received a lot of negative feedback. Tree's allow for a much larger amount of benefits per trait type. For example, one could use 2 yellow and 5 red as a champion. This really doesn't leave many options for traits. Whereas a tree, you may be given 50 points, and you can get 50 smaller benefits. Or you could go 25 yellow, 25 red. etc. A tree allows for a much larger span of options to customize your character.
And you wonder why alot of people dont have anymore faith or trust in you Turbine.. Maybe stop delaying every single update by few months and then again delay them over and over?
Q32 Aleatar Any firm plans to revamp the kinship system once that you are done with the housing?
A32 Firm? No. Deeply desired? Yes. - HoarseDev
In retrospect it seems that we had a missed opportunity with the Hytbold rebuild. I mean to suggest that next time a worthwhile endeavor would be a rebuild specific to a kinship.
It's one thing to bond with others through the course of raiding but building the home of your kinship within the context of how Hytbold was implemented adds another opportunity! Another idea is a rebuild that ultimately creates a neighborhood be it comprised of individual homes, kinship mini-thanes, or a mixed housing zone.
Just some food for thought about an opportunity to grow the Hytbold experience.
You could make it a scaling so all levels can participate and provide marks/medallions as rewards based on completion. I think something like this be a great change to the housing system and would provide a sense of ownership and pride in kinship and players houses. Hyperbole is cool but who wants to build a town that they can call their own? I Do!
I'm sure this is not as easy as I'm making it out to be but I think it's a great idea to start from.
2 cents.......
Q4 Peter_Pan – Do you have any plans to implement a system that allows master looter to be used in combination with remote looting? #LOTRO A4 JWB - No plans as of now. We're pretty happy overall with how remote looting is working in instances. #LOTRO
Lulz.
"It is good to have substance to one's existence, but if fate denies one substance, one can yet do a lot with style."
And you wonder why alot of people dont have anymore faith or trust in you Turbine.. Maybe stop delaying every single update by few months and then again delay them over and over?
You really don't want U10 deployed in its current state.
Originally Posted by Jumpin_JackSlash
Q34 @DaniAngione Why not make currency (money) shared like marks and such? Kind of annoying to mail money to yourself #LOTRO
A34 JWB - We see as many requests not to do this as we do to do it.
Wait, what? Who wouldn't want this? Failing to see how shared gold would be bad.
Something about a character having access to things he didn't earn. Try searching the suggestions forum for this suggestion.
Last edited by Nakiami; Feb 21 2013 at 10:24 PM.
A spaceship from another star / They ask me where all the people are
I tell them I'm the only one / There was a war, but I must have won
Q7 Aleatar - With the future class revamp, are there any plans to make the trait system more determinant in the classes. #LOTRO
A7 Jared - Absolutely. We want the selection of a trait line to be vital part of the player’s progression and as such, each A7a line should be distinct and exciting. #LOTRO
Q23 MrWarg - Can you give us any more information on the major class revamps taking place later in the year? #LOTRO
A23 Jared - Our goal is to reduce the hybrid-homogenized nature of our classes while bringing definition and excitement to the primary role of each line. #LOTRO
Though Jared didn't say they're headed towards talent trees, that's the worry given that Mounted Combat has trees. And so...
Originally Posted by cdq1958
I have played games that had trees. I have played games that don't. I don't see any particular difference in flexibility in the end (probably just me, there). There are limits either way. Some find trees more intuitive. Others don't. Mixing them I don't see as possible from the implementation point of view. Implementation details will, I think, matter greatly.
Originally Posted by Jarvisdoom
I personally really like the idea of a new trait "Tree" system, versus the current trait system. WoW had a "Tree" type system that worked for years. They recently changed it to that of a line and it has received a lot of negative feedback. Tree's allow for a much larger amount of benefits per trait type. For example, one could use 2 yellow and 5 red as a champion. This really doesn't leave many options for traits. Whereas a tree, you may be given 50 points, and you can get 50 smaller benefits. Or you could go 25 yellow, 25 red. etc. A tree allows for a much larger span of options to customize your character.
This is all "in my experience and opinion" of course. I played quite a bit of WoW before coming to LotRO in 2009--I don't know about the new "linear" talent system in WoW, but I suspect Blizzard did away with trees because they knew after years of experience that balancing the individual talents and branching paths became more troublesome with highly bloated trees. Linear sure is simple!
Anyway. First, what makes LotRO unique and great--among a number of things, of course (though this feels lessened with each update, sometimes), this includes the free-form class and virtue trait system. Specifically for class traits, chosen traits confer set bonuses unto a capstone at the player's own choice. So long as your class traits are unlocked, you can pick ANY of the traits you wish in ANY of the three lines (which are not linear at all) for specific set bonuses and an optional capstone, and legendary traits.
There is LESS player choice and customization in railroaded tree systems compared to the current LotRO system. It doesn't matter if you have 50 points especially if you only have enough points to go down a specific tree--you're forced to start at the bottom and are locked in. This makes sense for games where 5-mans and raiding content are a very significant portion of the entire game and the devs want to easily balance that content for specific roles, like WoW, but less so for games where 1-2-3-man content is more commonly experienced (hybrid roles/traits are perfectly viable and sometimes preferred) and some classes have different utility (buff/debuff, cc, etc.). If WB-Turbine intends now to significantly up fellowship/raid content, sure. That hasn't been the case since F2P was implemented.
Another reason why you have LESS player choice with tree systems is that trees are hierarchical by "value"--and the only people who determine each talent value are the devs, not the players. This is certainly more "intuitive" in the sense that it makes decision-making much simpler for players. While LotRO's current free-form trait system means someone can take specific red traits they prefer over others (e.g. captain's red traits for pet DPS versus self DPS), in trees you have no choice but to follow a preset path laid before you by devs who've decided one trait is innately more valuable than another. And along the way, you will be forced to choose a "gate" trait just to unlock something else you prefer--maybe you don't want the enforced baseline -threat% in the Red Dawn tree in order to get the +DPS traits after that.
A dev somewhere hinted that their future class revisions will "force difficult choices" or something to that effect. This would not be true with a tree system. Merely being forced to choose an initial role out of three at the root is nowhere near the same as deciding which specific individual traits in a line to pick for diverse set bonuses (potentially compromising a capstone) versus going for stronger set bonuses should you choose more to specialize. This means flexibility. More flexibility means more player choice, and in every case I've seen it (e.g. tons of feats to choose from in D&D), more truly "difficult" choices for players based on their own evaluation. Player choice is good. Enforced dev choices would be more akin to Instance Finder v1.
Changing the current free-form trait system into talent trees would be simplification for both players and for the devs. The devs get to choose their trait priorities over player preference and players in turn would be forced to just go down a mindless railroaded color. Of course, one way around that is to implement it like the warsteed traits: Give enough points to reach all three capstones and allow instant "stance" change in combat.
Personally, I'd rather the devs keep the free-form trait system and add a slot and empower the class trait set bonuses and capstones even more--make the higher set bonuses particularly interesting, and that would certainly offer more difficult choices, but still keep the diverse lesser set bonuses.
Or better yet. Skip class revamps AND REVAMP THE LEGENDARY ITEM SYSTEM PROPERLY.
____________________ Crit crafting & the RNG | Dumb noob things we've done in LotRO...
"Be not so eager to advance that you fail to experience the moment, in life and in all things." -Deluros, Rivendell legendary: adj.
1. Gilded (having a pleasing or showy appearance that conceals something of little worth)
2. Having an appearance of grandeur that obfuscates by complexity and arbitrariness
3. Disposable
Though Jared didn't say they're headed towards talent trees, that's the worry given that Mounted Combat has trees. And so...
I was specifically responding to this comment:
Originally Posted by Sapience
BQ10 Delaney - In the class revamps, will underused class trait lines be re-evaluted to encourage their use again, such as the burg MM line?
BA10 Not so much lines as trees, but yeah, that is central to the changes coming.
While we will never get to the point that every build will be equally popular we do think that we can make your character build full of rewarding choices. - HoarseDev
Which is a real shame. I played SWTOR for a couple months and I never liked the talent trees. I really hope they aren't planning on implementing a system like this for LOTRO.
I don't have much positive to say about the mounted combat trait trees either. You need to spend a whole ton of points in traits you don't want in order to make your mount turn at an acceptable rate or to regenerate power enough to last more than 30 seconds in combat.
If they do want to replace the class trait system with these trait trees, it does lend credence to this crazy theory.
edit:
Originally Posted by Trilwych
Or better yet. Skip class revamps AND REVAMP THE LEGENDARY ITEM SYSTEM PROPERLY.
Yes. LIs are way to complicated already. We have to deal with 3rd age/2nd age/1st age, weapons and class items, multiple items for each build, gambling for major legacies, grinding for relics, grinding crafting for crafted relics, grinding instances to earn empowerment scrolls and star-lit crystals. Enough already!
Simplify the game's systems. Don't add some pointlessly complex talent tree system. Traits are easy. Just let us save our setups already and then fix the freakin LIs.
Last edited by dietlbomb; Feb 21 2013 at 11:04 PM.
I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. ~ Faramir
Which is a real shame. I played SWTOR for a couple months and I never liked the talent trees. I really hope they aren't planning on implementing a system like this for LOTRO.
I don't have much positive to say about the mounted combat trait trees either. You need to spend a whole ton of points in traits you don't want in order to make your mount turn at an acceptable rate or to regenerate power enough to last more than 30 seconds in combat.
If they do want to replace the class trait system with these trait trees, it does lend credence to this crazy theory.
Oh shoot, my post was saved in Notepad and I didn't post until now (added quotes afterwards but thought the OP was unchanged)--after it looks like Sapience added more to the transcript so I had only read the first part or something.
Trees are so mind-numbingly boring and simplified for the reasons I stated, but it looks like my time with LotRO is limited when they finally do fall into that trap. Time for another MMO, yeah.
____________________ Crit crafting & the RNG | Dumb noob things we've done in LotRO...
"Be not so eager to advance that you fail to experience the moment, in life and in all things." -Deluros, Rivendell legendary: adj.
1. Gilded (having a pleasing or showy appearance that conceals something of little worth)
2. Having an appearance of grandeur that obfuscates by complexity and arbitrariness
3. Disposable
Trees are so mind-numbingly boring and simplified for the reasons I stated, but it looks like my time with LotRO is limited when they finally do fall into that trap. Time for another MMO, yeah.
Yes. This change is almost too depressing to contemplate. I tried other games, and I didn't like them that much. Why make LOTRO more like them?
Edit: Having slept on it, I think this post was a little too histrionic. But I still don't like trait trees very much.
Last edited by dietlbomb; Feb 22 2013 at 11:20 AM.
I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. ~ Faramir
So, they answered a lot of questions, none of which were fluff. Kudos, that is great. Unfortunately only one of them was about LIs and that was just about adding new legacies. I really didn't expect them to answer my question. I do eagerly anticipate the redesign of housing and kinships as it is needed. However, LIs need to be looked at again. The system is a mess and their disposable nature runs against the very essence of their literary counterparts. I will continue to beat this dead horse for as long as I continue to play this game. I'll give credit where it is due, Turbine has built a beautiful version of Middle-earth and added some wonderful storytelling of their own but the itemization, especially LIs, sucks.
Also, I like remote looting. I'm glad it is staying.
Our class traits are already a tree it just doesn't visually represent one with the line bonuses it's kind of like a log.
I'm bummed that once again my question didn't make the cut.
Some interesting stuff there and a good deal of "thinking".
Q46 @pebelas Another housing-question: will empty houses from inactive players be available to rent again? #LOTRO
A46 HoarseDev We're working out a reasonable foreclosure solution.
A46a to free up those long empty houses. #LOTRO
Good.
BQ9 Brya - Can you share any ideas you're considering for the housing revamp? Will we be able to get more storage?
BA9 Just ideas for this month but… more/better storage, better item placement rules, ways to display armor/weapons.
We’re evaluating our options and will keep you posted. - HorseDev
Frankly any changes to housing would be good, at the moment it's just extra vault space.
I'm not massively into housing but I know a LOT of players are, seems like a potential gold-mine for the developers if they can make it more attractive.
PvMP questions
Q2 Milithion - Any plans to extend the area of the Ettenmoors? #LOTRO
A2 Jinjaah - None at the moment. #LOTRO
Q17 Atriohm - Any thoughts on a new pvmp map? #LOTRO
A17 Jinjaah - Not at this time. #LOTRO
Q25 AlmericITA - New PvMP Zone in sight, even far away? #LOTRO
A25 Jinjaah - Not in sight. #LOTRO
Why the same question THREE times? I know a lot of player enjoy PvMP (myself included) but this is primarily a solo-friendly / PvE game and PvMP is a minority activity - give it a rest.
BQ2 Nubcat - A few creep players (especially us girls) were saying how cool it would be to play a female creep (Angmarim, perhaps). What is the chances of that, or any new creep class, being introduced to the game?
BA2 Jinjaah - I think having a new creep class be female is a great idea.
Been suggested a couple of times in the forums, nice to see the devs considering the idea.
General stuff
Q27 YageerSilverscale - Will we ever see any MC instance / part of instance ? #LOTRO
A27 JWB - It's on the to-do list at some point, no current eta. #LOTRO
Shame I was hoping some sort of MC instance was in the works.
Q31 Kajil -Is the hunter class ever going to see something along the lines of a strong, instant self-heal/HOT or instant B/P/E buff? #LOTRO
A31 Jared – It’s not out of the realm of possibility, but I’d prefer something other than a heal for survivability. #LOTRO
And I wanna threat shout, and stealth, and a mez, and a pony, and an eagle to fly and ... w t f
Q33 @Miesse can we please please have a trait panel setup that lets us save trait loadouts and name them like for MC? #LOTRO
A33 Hoarsedev - Yes.
Thank the Valar! At last.
Burg stuff
With a burg as my main I'm interested in how the devs see the class evolving:
Q13 YageerSilverscale - While developing Draigoch's lair the dev team mentioned a CJ revamp. Do you still have plans on that? #LOTRO
A13 JWB - Yes. Once the dust has settled from the class updates and we're prepping content these will have more relevance in I'm hoping to get this done. #LOTRO
Hallelujah! CJs are more of an irritant now in group play, one of the burgs signature skills is sorely in need of some scaling love.
Q18 reDot - Who is burg dev? #LOTRO
A18 Jared – I’ll be taking on the role of Burglar Dev. #LOTRO
Hallelujah again! We have a developer.
BQ10 Delaney - In the class revamps, will underused class trait lines be re-evaluted to encourage their use again, such as the burg MM line?
BA10 Not so much lines as trees, but yeah, that is central to the changes coming.
While we will never get to the point that every build will be equally popular we do think that we can make your character build full of rewarding choices. - HoarseDev
OK so not directly burg related in that the answer applies to all classes, but good to hear that the devs are aiming to make all trait lines viable.
As the person asking the question points out, burg MM line is very under-powered and therefore very underused which is sad.
Q34 @DaniAngione Why not make currency (money) shared like marks and such? Kind of annoying to mail money to yourself #LOTRO
A34 JWB - We see as many requests not to do this as we do to do it.
I cant think of any reason for a person to be against this. Anyone able to enlighten me to the what they may be.
NeXus on Snowbourn: Currently recruiting raid ready and available characters.
Blister: Lvl 65 Champion Blostor: Lvl 65 Hunter Ruthod: Lvl 65 Loremaster
Trandir: Lvl 65 Runekeeper Handlebar: Lvl 65 Burg Blisty: Lvl 65 Minstrel
Litter: Lvl 3? Warden Jedweird: Lvl 3? Captain
BQ6 Waylen -Threat generation by tanks appears to not scale proportionally to dps. Will you be addressing this issue at some point? Also Threat itself is very murky do you have any plans for making it a bit more transparent?
BA6 Jared – Yes. Threat has been the topic of many design discussions recently and we agree that the system is not particularly user friendly and it’s something we want to address.
Ahum, what does this mean exactly? "Transparent" and "user friendly"? I really, really don't want threat meters...
Houseing revmap, helms deep and playerscounil, sounds like you are getting serious with those. Cool!
But the best question...
Originally Posted by Sapience
Q4 Peter_Pan – Do you have any plans to implement a system that allows master looter to be used in combination with remote looting? #LOTRO A4 JWB - No plans as of now. We're pretty happy overall with how remote looting is working in instances. #LOTRO
… with a very disappointing answer. I mean you see that every week threads are popping up requesting some sort of master loot. So obviously a big part of the community disagrees (especially regular raid groups). We worked out several solutions for this without the need to remove playerbased loot or remote looting. So why? What is the reason?
Maybe its because english is not my first language but all i heard is....blah blah blah...housing revamp...blah ...helms deep...blah blah...
All the other topics starts with a we think,we might ,we want
So on those 2 housing Revamp looking forward many great ideas might play here. I am very much looking for in a day that i will come out of my house and down the street their might be a tavern with people(fellow players) gossiping.And also looking forward to a house that i could put all those nice decos i am finding and dont know where to put them. An upgrade on the scenery wouldnt be bad either...
As for Helms Deep i must say that there is no other region who i would like to see more than this place. PLease whatever you do do it epic.gigantic and as much as middle earth possible!!
I cant think of any reason for a person to be against this. Anyone able to enlighten me to the what they may be.
I think people are worried about compatibility with
a) gold caps (both the F2P limit of 2 gold and the normal upper limit of 9999 gold), and
b) server transfers.
There are also the role play reasons mentioned and people also probably have other reasons.
Townsperson says, "I'm having an adventure. I've paddled all the way from Frogmorton!"
I personally really like the idea of a new trait "Tree" system, versus the current trait system. WoW had a "Tree" type system that worked for years. They recently changed it to that of a line and it has received a lot of negative feedback. Tree's allow for a much larger amount of benefits per trait type. For example, one could use 2 yellow and 5 red as a champion. This really doesn't leave many options for traits. Whereas a tree, you may be given 50 points, and you can get 50 smaller benefits. Or you could go 25 yellow, 25 red. etc. A tree allows for a much larger span of options to customize your character.
If you *really* love diverse talent trees, go play Rift, with their soul system. Please don't make LOTRO a copy of WoW's old talents. I like playing something different than what I've played the last ten years.
Also, on calling Hytbold a success, or saying that people played X way...they have the logs. They know how many did X or Y or Z, and for how many hours. Players on the forums don't have any data except for themselves, their friends, and what they've inferred about other players they see. Nothing more. Don't make pronouncements of fact from what is really only your own opinion made from fragmentary data.
Last edited by Loreineth; Feb 22 2013 at 09:30 AM.
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