Thread: Update 9 Developer Diary -- Travel to Quest Location Feedback

"Hello, community! You probably don't remember me, but I posted an introduction a few months back. Since the release of RoR, I have been hard at work on new features and fixes for you guys for Update 9. I'd like to tell you about one of them, the new “Travel to Quest Objective” feature, today." -- Nathan "NPComplete" Partlan

Read more in our new developer diary and post your comments here!

WHOA. New dev diary page looks awesome!

On topic: I can't see this as a feature I'll use (as I rarely buy stuff from the store) but its nice to know its there nonetheless.

Also, I really do enjoy diaries like this that go behind the scenes and look at the technical challenges of making stuff like this happen.

Better post this here too then, I guess.

I do not intend to use this at all. With regards to the button, I would like the ability to turn the icon off. I imagine many people are going to see this as 'yet another Store ad', and what's more it's more stuff cluttering up our UIs.

On the flipside, the Dev Diary itself is a neat insight. I always like the Diaries where we get a glimpse into the development process. Helps make us a little less ignorant of what designing an MMO is like.

Also, would I be correct in assuming you are the same Dev who came up with the 'move to item' feature? Because I really, really like that one.

This is a well developed feature, even if its one I wont be making use of on live. It's been nice to see NPComplete add various checks, balances, and other Player-facing stuff related to this feature based on our Bullroarer Feedback. Keep up the good work =)

This sounds like an excellent quality of life feature that could have added value to my VIP subscription yet still have been purchasable to F2P and Premium players. Oh well, I'm getting used to this now...

Posting here too.

Yet another Store-only item that has taken up dev time when no-one asked for it.

No, I will never use this. Yes, I would like an option to remove it from my sight.

Travel to Quest Location is rather neat. Certainly could help save a lot of time in early areas of the game. Not sure if I'll use it much myself, since other travel features like Milestones can be more useful overall.


I do like the new page for the Dev Diaries, but the text itself is rather small. Is that 8-point font?

It's sad to see a feature that a dev is so proud of, but will be hated by so many people not because of what it does, but because of how it's presented.

Originally Posted by Nyrion

Better post this here too then, I guess.

I do not intend to use this at all. With regards to the button, I would like the ability to turn the icon off. I imagine many people are going to see this as 'yet another Store ad', and what's more it's more stuff cluttering up our UIs.

I'm not sure if anyone's seen shots of the new UI work thats gone in since our orignal update 9 complaints about this feature, and these would make wonderful additions to the diary =)

I for one find the changes since early beta to the UI very polished. The button is not obtrusive, melds well with the rest of the UI and isn't 'turbine gold' colored until you click on it. You might not even notice it is there at first if you're not reading about it =)

reposting here:

Interesting diary, it’s obvious the author likes his job.

I however, will never use this. I was sad that there was no mention of an option to completely turn off this feature. And when I say feature, I mean advertisement and another link to the Turbine Store in the user interface.

This was brought up on Bullroarer forums and Raina said she would pass it on. Any word on whether we will be able to disable this showing up in the user interface?

You will see that you can immediately travel to the NPC for one "Traveller's Writ." These are a Barter Wallet currency that you can purchase from the LOTRO store.

Fix the lag, crashes and the mac client issues. Your reputation is going in the wrong direction with this &&&&. Sure make more store items thats cool, I like the store I use it (wont for this) but who wants to see a dev diary for a quality of life feature that requires a store purchase? Talk about clueless this isnt what the fanbase wants, at least I havent seen any threads on it.

This is an awesome feature for free to players to use while leveling to 33 before leaving for another game. I really love the fact that they're adding more advertsement to the UI as well.

I'd use it if it were "free." Paying to optimize the value of my time spent playing a game is clearly not a high priority (I am, after, using the time in question just to play a game).

Interesting how this thread does not appear on my Dev Tracker. I only found it because C linked it from an orphan thread.

Bah, and now that I click it.. I get a message that I dont have browser cookies enabled. Silly... I checked my Chrome settings and they ARE enabled.

This is an extremely well thought-out and designed dev diary. I really want to applaud the developer to address a couple of issues: 1) how he'd personally use it! and 2) some of the challenges coding the solution. The insights into both make for a really good article. Also, the new Dev Diary template looks great!

Having said that, a couple of comments: please provide a screenshot or two so we can SEE what the UI is you are referencing. I think that would help us to understand how it might work. That's the most important thing missing from the article.

While the writ of travel (store item) necessary to utilize the travel is most definately a convenience, I can clearly see it not being particularly valuable to many people and as such, having the ability to toggle it OFF in the UI would be very desirable. There may be a quest or two (or the need for an AFK and not the time to get to safety) that having it would be valuable. UI components are comlicated enough and often confusing, options to turn on and off the functionality would be helpful.

I didn't recall any notion of the writs of travel being "store exclusives" -- any chance we could see them in game or as quest rewards? I'm thinking, specifically, during the Ranger Round-up section of the Epic story where you could take the option to teleport to the next quest location. These help tremendously and I'd like to see more use of that in game, not necessarily as a store only feature. I'd also be concerned that including these store items might DECREASE or remove that thoughtful and helpful design in the quest building that helps move the story along. The recent Rohan epic story had several teleporting quests and it would be a shame to see that replaced in the future by the option to "purchase" the same teleport. Please continue to use them thoughtfully.

Honestly, I'd use it if it were free (even a limited amount of uses per day for VIP). As a VIP, I am getting a little tired of having to pay you even more for features that should be free. Sure, charge FTP for using these features, but also show us VIP's that you give a damn about our $15 a month as well.

Originally Posted by Runesi_EU

This sounds like an excellent quality of life feature that could have added value to my VIP subscription yet still have been purchasable to F2P and Premium players. Oh well, I'm getting used to this now...

That's a very good point.

Anyway, congrats to NPComplete on the new feature. In reading your diary, I did appreciate your enthusiasm.

I'm not going to be one of those who gripes over supposed misuse of dev time, especially since I have absolutely no idea of who at Turbine is not only allowed, but able to work on which parts of the game. Besides, what I would like to see fixed or created is highly unlikely to be what Player X wants; in other words, someone's always going to be upset.

Although I am unlikely to ever use this service since I am not a huge fan of the store, I do vigorously applaud this as an addition to the store. Why? Because it's the perfect example of paying for convenience, which is what the store was supposed to be for, along with fluff items. It's not another despised pay-for-advantage item, for which I am actually grateful.

Sorry, I missed reading about the price of these writs. Depending on the cost, I can think of a few quests where this would be quite welcome. For instance: turning in the Blagh/Rung quest to the quest givers hanging out right outside the doors to Dar Narbugud. I believe I have at least one character hanging on to this in case the unlikely scenario of me winding up down there for deeding or something comes up.

I have to say that it's very refreshing to read about someone being excited to go to work. I last felt that way while taking some university math courses where homework was 5 or 6 questions and you had an entire week to figure them out. Hold on to that feeling!

I have not had a chance to peek on BR to see the latest UI for this, but I think the best place for this is in the quest log rather than right on my screen, because if I want to look around, I grab the screen with my cursor and mouse around. If I end up grabbing store links, it will be an irritating distraction rather than simply a helpful feature.

Regarding the interesting topic of places not being loaded if people aren't in them, does this mean that a very thinly spread population is more resource intensive than if they were concentrated in just a few places? Very interesting to think about.

The new look of the website is nice, what I wanna know is why can't we have a updated forum???? This forum needs a major overhaul & it seems to just get ignored.

First of all I would like to say thank you to the dev for the diary, his enthusiasm and his responsiveness to the Beta feedback which is always encouraging

Originally Posted by twittfounder

I didn't recall any notion of the writs of travel being "store exclusives" -- any chance we could see them in game or as quest rewards? I'm thinking, specifically, during the Ranger Round-up section of the Epic story where you could take the option to teleport to the next quest location. These help tremendously and I'd like to see more use of that in game, not necessarily as a store only feature. I'd also be concerned that including these store items might DECREASE or remove that thoughtful and helpful design in the quest building that helps move the story along. The recent Rohan epic story had several teleporting quests and it would be a shame to see that replaced in the future by the option to "purchase" the same teleport. Please continue to use them thoughtfully.

This would be a concern, given Turbine's history. I would like to see continued 'convenience' implemented via normal gameplay (rather than store) whereby long-distance or awkward travel is required travelling between NPCs as mentioned above - I would be unlikely to use anything store-related to avoid such journeys and if the game becomes tiresome I just won't play.

Originally Posted by Delaney

Although I am unlikely to ever use this service since I am not a huge fan of the store, I do vigorously applaud this as an addition to the store. Why? Because it's the perfect example of paying for convenience, which is what the store was supposed to be for, along with fluff items. It's not another despised pay-for-advantage item, for which I am actually grateful.

I would also like to echo what Delaney says above.

Yup, good diary; the details are appreciated. Try not to let the Internet bring you down.

I won't ever use this because of its price (and I don't even know the price).

(And I will continue to complain about the travel times in the Trollshaws. We don't need this, we just need Swift Travel)

The only problem with this idea is the how it can be potentially abused by turbine, I.E. re-working all quests to make questing a supreme PITA without it.

Wish my mind didnt work like this, but you have given me and others plenty of reason to think this way. I like many do not have the trust and faith in you not to re-work all quests into being a lot longer riding all over the map in order to herd us into buying this item from the store and forcing a sale.

I was a little surprised to see this got past marketing:

Originally Posted by Nathan

I am, unfortunately, a busy player without any level-capped characters. I want to get at least one of my characters through some of the repetition of running back along the same route to a quest giver, so that I can experience more of the story and cool new content. I still want to see the world, but there are only so many times I can run past a given field before it gets a bit tedious. This new travel method will allow me to see the world when I want to, but also to skip repeating the same journey too many times. For long-standing players with several level-capped characters, I expect this will also make it easier to try out a new class or race.

You pointed out a significant design flaw in the game. And you are selling a good tool to circumvent the poor choices made in making this game.

My feedback is that I would have much rather you worked on ways to stop presenting "tedious" content that you also tend to sell at a premium price, rather than selling solutions to developer created problems at an additional premium price.

I'll also echo the other sentiments in that this "feature" needs to be opt-in only, and would actually serve as a ViP freebie since there really doesn't seem to be much offered to that group these days.

Selling to F2P players is a great idea. All other aspects of this feature are presented and work poorly IMHO.

Thank you for the Dev Diary. I appreciate hearing about the difficulties of developing something even as simple-seeming as this. It is not something that I am likely to go out of my way to buy, although I would definitely place it in the 'convenience' category (i.e., I could see myself desperate to finish a Vol 1 Epic quest before logging off, and deciding to buy a Writ just to get it done more quickly).

I realize that Store functions are a different team than Development functions, but I noticed there was no mention of cost. As a suggestion for this kind of thing, I could imagine providing VIPs with a coupon code redeemable for one (1) of these per month, or every other month, or something. It would be a nice little convenience reward.

First off.. YAH, a Dev diary. Isnt this update hitting.. oh.. say.. MONDAY? Like 5 days away? Where are the rest of them?

NPComplete, good writeup and kinda enjoyable hearing how enthusiastic you are about your job. I love when someone loves thier job. You guys obviously put a lot of thought into what this new feature will do. Hopefully, your collision mechanics will make it into the swift travel horses, as mine are still running into the walls at Snowborn and Cliving occasionally.

That said.. Sorry.. no way in.. I will see any value in using this. I get VIP sub points monthly that now have to go to relic removal scrolls and other necessities. Fluff like this will never find a use in my game unless it is free to VIPa and avail frequently. Sadly, as I read your concept, the only thing I could think was, this is Lotro's solution to the "holo in" feature in SWTOR except it costs real world money every time you use it.

I cannot see myself EVER paying to ride back from a quest. Seems more and more content is pay as you go even for those of us that Pay monthly charges, or like me are playing on Lifetime/Founders accts.

Teleport in quests?

cya

First, I'm glad to see this tech added to the game. There is nothing but positive to gain from tech that allows a player to go back directly to the NPC.

The trouble with that statement is that it's easily the same kind of statement that I said about adding the skirmish soldiers to landscape. I was really excited about that tech and I ended up not using it because it was a nickel and dime scheme (meaning that a convenience costs money everytime you use it). What's funny is that I would have given Turbine a flat amount of real money for permanent use and I'm a lifetime account subscriber.

I understand the concept of no such thing as a free lunch and this transport tech would be nice if it is was given to the VIP in some form. It does feel like VIP has been badly diluted at this point and it'd be interesting to give each VIP one writ that has a cooldown at say 1 hour that can be bought down to 30 or 15 minutes. Many would still grumble but one can't make all people happy all the time.

The other alternative is to allow VIP (and only VIP) to purchase one writ on cooldown permanently. This feels like the skirmish soldier conundrum over again. Right now, I plan to not spend one cent on the tech but if I was given access to it on a limited basis or able to buy it permanently then I would. I don't like nickel and dime schemes but I do like the chance to upgrade permanently (if a VIP).

Originally Posted by Darlgon

First off.. YAH, a Dev diary. Isnt this update hitting.. oh.. say.. MONDAY? Like 5 days away? Where are the rest of them?

Great question!

We have a swath of developer diaries coming your way this week, including a diary on the changes to Yule, the second part of the Moria revamp, and some of our various combat revisions. There will be a dev diary every day leading up to the launch of Update 9.

Originally Posted by Celestrata

Great question!

We have a swath of developer diaries coming your way this week, including a diary on the changes to Yule, the second part of the Moria revamp, and some of our various combat revisions. There will be a dev diary every day leading up to the launch of Update 9.

So nothing for the BREEvamp then? Can't get enough of those Bree-related puns.

Looking forward to these dev diaries anyway, and I'm sure people are hoping those 'combat revisions' includes the interrupt changes. Quite a few people are flipping their schnitzelburgers over them.

Please provide the ability to teleport anywhere next time. I'm busy and I don't like wasting time running around the world.

Some other convenience features that you can work on next:

- non-depletable crafting nodes. Running around searching for nodes is tedious and wastes my time.
- npcs in quests talk way too much. I don't care what this Ganodalf guy is talking about, I just want to move on. An ability to fast forward dialogue would be much appreciated.
- in fact, please just create an auto-complete button in the quest UI. Why should I be forced into doing a quests I don't enjoy?

Make sure you gate these with significant TP cost so that it's profitable on your end.

No. I won't be using this.
Its fine with me that it exists as long as its unobtrusive.

Originally Posted by Dorothir

Posting here too.

Yet another Store-only item that has taken up dev time when no-one asked for it.

No, I will never use this. Yes, I would like an option to remove it from my sight.

Agreed.

Why was this added? It is of course a very *nice* *convenient* *quality of life* etc. etc. addition to the game, but the more I think about it, the more I realize it's completely pointless to waste a dev's time on this. I can only think of 2-3 times that I would actually care that much about it, let alone pay TP to use it.

I feel sorry for the dev who had to work on this, and even more sorry for the fact that he probably had to say that he enjoyed working on it. Why weren't devs assigned to something more useful, like, um, maybe more instances? More game content? Not fluffy store items?

Overall, I'm not gonna lie, this is one irritating piece of news.

I don't expect to use this feature, because when it's time to complete a quest, I usually have other things to do on the way back anyway. This is especially true in the newest regions of the game, where the designers have already been fairly thoughtful about quest flow and travel. It might be more useful in older regions where travel is particularly painful.

In fact, now that I think about it, I wish Turbine had spent this development time retrofitting more old quests with the new remote bestowal, advancement, and completion functionality. However, that wouldn't have given players something new to spend Turbine Points on. Should we expect extra inconvenience and travel to be built into future quests to make this purchase more attractive to players?

Also, I'm surprised that this new feature was not included for current subscribers as a perk. VIPs are already paying monthly to play the game, and now Turbine is asking them to pay again to use this convenient feature. Just as swift travel stablemaster options are available to active subscribers, I think this feature would have made an obvious addition to the list of VIP benefits which has remained unchanged for years now.

Like almost every other poster on this thread, I appreciate the hard work that went into the crafting of this feature. I also agree I would never use it and would like a way to turn off ALL of the FTP items Turbine keeps adding.

That being said, is this a UI construct that can be turned off with LUA code? If the UI is re-skinned, can this piece be stripped out?

Originally Posted by Fredelas

In fact, now that I think about it, I wish Turbine had spent this development time retrofitting more old quests with the new remote bestowal, advancement, and completion functionality.

They did.

From the tentative U9 release notes:

New auto-bestow quests are now available as you level up through the game (pre-moria).

Also, it looks like a good portion of the Moria revamp has centered around the new remote bestowal/advancement/completion tech. So there you go.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...JECT-TO-CHANGE

Originally Posted by Celestrata

Great question!

We have a swath of developer diaries coming your way this week, including a diary on the changes to Yule, the second part of the Moria revamp, and some of our various combat revisions. There will be a dev diary every day leading up to the launch of Update 9.

Nice to hear, I will try to not be so hasty next time.

Loved the diary! Your discussion was interesting.

I'll give a "meh" to the feature though. I don't see myself using this, but I almost never say never. I'd love it if the icon were invisible unless you have the tokens in your wallet, or if there was a UI option to turn it off. At a minimum, I'd love if the icon were far enough away from the ring icon on the quest tracker that I will 'never' accidentally hit it. I know there is a confirmation box, but those get annoying.

I'd rather the developers focus on making new instances and raids and new landmass, new hobbies, new relics, improving mounted combat and everything else that needs improving, instead of spending time creating more store ads to the UI.

I will probably never use it. At least not if I feel forced.

Love the Dev Diary, shame about the way it is introduced. See also: Barter Wallet, Skirmish Soldier landscape tokens etc. This kind of stuff should be included for your VIPs who pay regularly already, the whole point of this wondrous "hybrid" system was that VIPS wouldnt need to pay any extra, while Premiums could purchase what they wanted...

Except Turbine-WB seems to want to gouge _everyone_.