We will get 3 instances for 3 in the first part? Who wants this kind of playing? It´s usually so hard for the support classes!
The raiding players on my server will be in shock after this. Nothing to do until february. So they will be seeking for other games.
I can´t see any reason for this nail in the coffin! Why not releasing 1 3man, 1 6man and 1 12 man in the first part? Just 3 manned instances sound like a new Hytbold to me.
I guess, many players of all servers will say goodbye - well done!
1) So many 3 mans? I agree completely with all of the posters who have lamented the lack of 6-mans in recent times. And seriously....which non-raid instances have gotten the most mileage since Rise Of Isengard? That's right - The Foundry and The Roots Of Fangorn. These are what you always saw groups forming for.....in contrast, you rarely ever saw groups for the smaller 3 mans after the first several weeks of release. People were still running Foundry and RoF right up until RoR was released. From what I've seen, the only two 3-mans that were ever popular were The School and The Library at Tham Mirdain - and not many people do those anymore, scaled or otherwise.
2) Rohan has to be the first major LOTRO zone cluster that has no instances of its own.....which is frankly incredible and ridiculous when one considers how crammed with instances Moria was. The last two expansions (Mirkwood and Isengard) also both had a decent number of instances....but now we finally get to Rohan and there's no "endgame" group content? It's just Hytbold? Seriously? And what was the point of mounted combat and warsteeds if they have no real use outside of galloping around and annoying warbands? I suspect alot of players thought the new instance cluster would at least have group content involving warsteeds.....but based purely on the instance descriptions so far, one might assume not?
The 12-man instances are the Battle of Dale, and could be thought of as wings of the same raid. We separated them to give context to the story as the battle proceeds over the course of a week.
After reading this and thinking about it, I'm slightly less disappointed. Assuming they're like wings of the OD or ToO encounters and not Turtle, I think it's a pretty decent idea to not have to deal with locks of a multi-boss raid and allow greater access to the content. I just hope Tier 2 Challenges and corresponding rewards are on par with those style of raids.
Although this is all just hopeful speculation, and I will likely go into hibernation till February.
1. Excited that there should be instances to run around Christmas-time.
2. Disappointing that the larger instances wont be available until February
3. In response to the complaints about single boss raids, I honestly can't see us just fighting one boss during the Battle of Erebor. Also, Rowan's comment if you didn't already see it:
EDIT: Ok, so in terms of timeline, these instances throw everything WAY out of whack.
Also, Battle under the Trees of Lorien takes place March 11-22 and the Battle of Mirkwood takes place March 23-25.
Based on what has happened in game thus far, I think it is safe to assume that it must be March 1st in game.
February 23, 3019 - first Battle of the Fords of Isen.
February 26, 3019 - battles with orcs near Parth Galen
February 29, 3019 - Rohirrim destroy the orcs who captured Merry and Pippin
So these instances are just skipping ahead over three weeks in terms of the story? I'm a bit confused...
LotRO has always used the canon timeline as a guide for the Epic, leaving the huge amount of other stuff we've done to exist in that nebulous "time between important plot events" you might see in a TV series. This would be a bit more explicit about being "ahead" of the (primary?) timeline, but it's not like any realistic measure would have us out of Angmar, let alone Moria, before Aragorn's kid was old enough to adventure on his own
We wont see much of Dale or Erebor as we are not getting any landmass just the instances.
The Battle of Erebor was on 17 March and this is a bit further along the time line than we are. We still have Helms Deep to see first, 3rd March. Aragorn taks the Paths of the Dead, 8th March and many other things before the Battle for Erebor.
This seems like cashing in on The Hobbit, not a bad thing, but lacks continuity with where we are and the fact this these instances are part of the Rohan expansion
If my memory serves, there were 3 battles involving Dale, Erebor, and Lorien spanning several days, with the last battles occurring on 25th of March.
I am curious as to how we'll be acquiring the presumed final upgrade to the battered ring of rohan.
The tooltip: "While restored to most of its former glory, the ring feels like it is missing something..."
It doesn't make sense to me that the ring's final upgrade would depend on something obtained from an instance far away from Rohan, but maybe it will. Or that final upgrade will just never appear in the game? Or perhaps won't be obtainable until the next expansion into Western Rohan?
LotRO has always used the canon timeline as a guide for the Epic, leaving the huge amount of other stuff we've done to exist in that nebulous "time between important plot events" you might see in a TV series. This would be a bit more explicit about being "ahead" of the (primary?) timeline, but it's not like any realistic measure would have us out of Angmar, let alone Moria, before Aragorn's kid was old enough to adventure on his own
Yes, but Rowan explicitly stated that the raid is the Battle of Dale which occurs at a specific time. This is a problem.
Occupy Warden Forums to bring back teh awesome. NO GAMBIT COOLDOWNS!
very excited grats guys again you have listened to your players .
And are being honest with us looking forward to polished raids thankyou.
If riders of rohan is a bench mark you have raised the bar .
I'm seriously depressed. It's like turbine had to make a choice about what portion of their player base to displease and they picked raiders and groupers as they're the minority. Except that Rohan is a solo heavy expansion already and this way we get cut off entirely until February.
It's not about being hardcore, it's about playing (and enjoying a challenge) with friends and kinmates. This is a MMORPG after all, we're supposed to play together, if I wanted to play solo there's a billion better games out there.
What should our events look like until Feb? Gather up and then split in 3 man groups, hoping we have enough healers and tanks? We want to play together, like, you know, in a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER game.
THREE 3-man instances? I hate those! Only one 6-man instance?!
All raids have single boss?!
No ror themed instances/raids?
Again: this sucks!
I already have legendary RoR so I'm going to stay and play with those instances/raids, but after that I'm gone!!! This game is a disappointment after a disappointment.
My raiding kin has been sitting on its hands since the RoR expansion, expecting a 12 man raid in December. I’m sorry to say, many of use feel Turbine has failed after reading this news.
Here’s some advice for the next time you plan this;
RoR could have waited. Mounted combat wasn’t that special. You could have released a Hobbit themed instance cluster with the movie release in Dec. Which we would have paid for and this would have given raiders more time in the Isengard 12 man. THEN released RoR in Feb and an RoR themed instance cluster in the summer of 2013. Which we would have paid for as well.
I don’t know how I’m going to get my raiders back from GW2, Halo, CoD. Western Rohan Better ROCK IT. Either go big or go home.
No, Draigoch was not about right. It was far too easy. Casual kins completed it fairly fast.
It was too easy for regular raiders. Not too easy for a lot of PUGs though. I have seen it wipe, even relatively late in the year. If it was "too easy" how could there possibly be wipes? The answer is that not every player is the same. Sure, it only takes 2 people in the raid to know what they're doing, but it can still go wrong.
And when I have been in it many times, most of the players there seem to be having a lot of fun. Early on in the year it was mostly regular raiders getting more stuff, then they moved on to Isengard for the most part. After all the normal raiders left though it changed a lot, people started showing up to have funb. Many players stopped gearing up after getting Draigoch set, they were never going to do Isengard and get better stuff, but they still showed up after that point because they had fun!
When you say "casual kins" you mean kins with enough players to get together to run it together, presumably I think kins that actually do raids or instances together. To me a casual kinship is one that does not do raids or instances together normally, so it would have to have maybe 50 active members to be able to get a Draigoch group together (12 people, not the 6 or 7 person runs).
Of course it is too easy for some people. So what? Those people can move on to the tough stuff. We should never judge difficulty of content based upon what the top tier of players think.
For me the main problem isnt about the single-boss raids its more about the fact that there is only one 6-man instance coming!
Ya, that's a bit disappointing. Those tend to be the easiest to get a group together for. 3-mans overall are too hard and/or too dependent upon having the right group makeup. And 12-person is either a full raid too difficult, or easy enough but too hard to get a full group together (especially after the regular raiders have geared up and moved on).
However Isengard only had one 6 person. I wish they had two, and they eventually did (though roots is hard enough I don't even like doing it at level 85, though foundry is a blast).
I didn't do the earlier 6mans that much at the time, as they felt either too hard or players insisted on silly challenge modes or players were picky about gearing up. I think Isengard changed things up a bit because you could get decent gear a bit easier than in earlier expansions.
1) At least we get something new to do besides the boring, monotonous Hytbold rebuilding "challenge".
Don't forget skirmish raids and scaled instances. Sadly skirmish raids seem to have died down for some reason, I still need many marks/medallions and I'd rather do the skraid than solo them.
2) The upcoming single-boss "raids". Let me be clear: Keep it simple! Your motivation to build up an intense single-boss lair encounter failed uttermost with Draigoch being bugged as hell and broken still today. Keep it simple, keep it safe.
And don't be too difficult like Watcher was. That required a long time to gear up, then a long time to learn the fights, and casual players really were locked out of doing that completely.
What in the name of Elbereth has Erebor and the Lonely Mouintain to do with Riders of Rohan????
Not much, but why does it have to be Rohan? You say you want Rohan and that's fair, but remember that players have been asking for Erebor and other stuff from The Hobbit for a few years now, other players have been predicting Turbine would be foolish if they didn't have any Hobbit movie tie in, etc.
Not very excited about the 3 mans only because I've always had trouble getting into 3 mans with my burglar main. Most of my unfinished deeds are in 3 man instances. I'm more excited for the raids. I love lair raids that can be completed in one sitting. The super long raids that take multiple gaming sessions to complete usually end in me never seeing the complete raid.
I'm happy that in this case, Turbine has given us some forewarning...one of the things promised again and again to us since F2P was introduced. Thank you for giving us an update including at least a general timeframe. I, for one, am okay with delays when updates give us some hopeful reasons to wait. Thanks for that.
As for the updates, I'm glad there will be a tie in, but I want landscape, too...not just instances. I want those areas developed and I fear that they are getting this treatment and will be overlooked. Is that the case? I won't hold my breath for that information, though I'd like to at least hear its on some kind of road map.
Just throwing my two coppers in here and forgive me if someone already made this point as I have not had the time or patience to read every single response to this post. From what I have read, there are people upset with the concept of three single boss raids. It may be well to remember that Barad Guldur was in essence, three single boss raids. Granted, you had to do them in order but they still each had their own instance (that is to say, you entered doors after each boss that took you to a new area), their own trash mobs, and one boss fight each.
Many here are leaping to the conclusion that these new raids are "Lair Raids" a la the Turtle or Watcher or Draigoch. While it's true that nothing Turbine has said excludes that possibility, they have also said nothing that confirms it. Something described as a single boss raid could have trash mobs or it might not. Personally I would like to see one of the raids be a lair raid but with some pre-fight mechanics like we saw in Draigoch. It would be interesting if one of them had a gauntlet fight like the first wing of BG. At least one, in my opinion, must have traditional (albeit with new mechanics and such) trash mob pulls leading to the boss. Three single boss raids all with trash pulls would be fine too but three lair raids with no trash is just gonna make people angry and the hardcore raiders will find another game to invest in if they haven't already.
HEY DRAMA LAMAS, GUESS WHAT?
NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU SAY YOUR QUITTING
YOUR STILL HERE AFTER SAYING IT FOR THE PAST 3 X PACS
whatever happened to patience and moderation? Im sure for any casual player there is more than enough content to last you through to the next instance cluster/update.
and there's always the ettenmoors.... constant action always!
LoL what lendas said.
You are still playing, so why complain saying that you have given up hope when you still play?
Why does every think so badly.
Smaug fight, i guarantee that it won't be in a giant cave like draigoch since he died outside. The fight maybe outside with players killing him and whatever.
The other 2 raids, ppl think! this can actually be a taste/test of what the Battle of the Hornburg is going to be. To play it safe, they may even be making raid with the taste of Helms Deep.
Battle of Erebor, don't this sounds like a seige similar to what Helms Deep is going to be?
Now here is the question: Would you rather do a raid with ridiculous amount of bugs to the point where it ain't fun or wait a bit longer for bug to not happen a lot and still have fun?-and- We waited 9 months for Rohan to come, why can't you wait for another 3 months? There is always something to turn to you know, it's call real life and other games.
Regardless, at least we got something to do while we wait for the raids.
Hopefully there well be a new armor set specifically rewarded by the 3 mans. And Hopefully there are new currencies to use for new things say steed cos? (off-topic)
Aside from it being partially delayed it's pretty much the same thing we got for Isengard. Three 3-mans, one 6-man and a multi-wing raid with one boss at the end of each wing (not counting Draigoch).
I'm pretty excited that we'll get to see the Lonely Mountain! I just wish we'd get a region for the area at some point but my feeling is this is the extend they'll handle "side areas". As others have said though, I hope this does not impact the updates we normally get in the first half of the year.
When we made the decision to delay the release of the Rider’s of Rohan expansion, we also made it clear that we would still honor our commitment to release the instances this year. Because of the delay in shipping Rohan, development time for the year was obviously reduced. This left us two options; either delay the entire instance cluster until 2013, or release those instances we felt could be completed with the highest degree of polish in December and delay the others until they are ready (currently expected to be February).
I find it revealing that (according to Sapience) actually following through on the commitment ("we made it clear"...lol) to release the content on time was never even considered. Content which people had paid for in advance with a clearly advertised delivery date, I might add.
What about the option of committing additional resources to make up for your failure to deliver the expansion itself on time?
Instead you cut back on developers and renege on a "commitment" that there was apparently never any intention of honoring from the moment it was made.
...You are still playing, so why complain saying that you have given up hope when you still play?...
Because i got a Lifetime Sub, and im lookin into lotro whenever somethin new arrives. nevertheless , for me and for many others this " instance cluster" is nothing but a heap of senseless, brainless fast programming dung.
i got no intrest in mirkwood or misty mountain instances these areas are beyond me 2 years ago. there will be allways those type of players who could be send into a hello kitty instance and they would still love it ... think about it ;-)
we in germany got a saying " small ghosts are easily entertained"
Last edited by Gondalen_Drake; Nov 26 2012 at 10:38 PM.
This looks good. Seven instances surpasses expectations. I have some sympathy for the raiders for reasons already stated. On the other hand, I've been listening to moaning about Draigoch bugs for a year now, so it seems hypocritical to complain that the raids aren't coming out before they are ready. It takes a lot of work and debugging to make them. And surely more can be counted on than three more turtles.
This looks good. Seven instances surpasses expectations. I have some sympathy for the raiders for reasons already stated. On the other hand, I've been listening to moaning about Draigoch bugs for a year now, so it seems hypocritical to complain that the raids aren't coming out before they are ready. It takes a lot of work and debugging to make them. And surely more can be counted on than three more turtles.
RoR was presold with the IC in July , now we get 3 3 man and the rest in the next year... sorry we gave them money they didnt or wont deliver what they promised. we have all rights to complain!
Can it be that hard to have expanded one 3 man idea into a decent 6 man one?
As for the 3 raids we have we all assume single boss means lair raid (dragon vile maw) but it is still possible it means a single raid with only a complettion lock doesnt mean we cant have one that has multiple trash fights with a sub boss or two..
ideally given the three raids we have that is what i would like to see 1 raid with plenty of trash lots of tactics.
1 raid like vile maw. challanging
1 raid like filikul or dragon that can become tank and spank
The more I read it, the more these raids simply sound like cheesy skirm raids. Please tell me they're at least somewhat challenging, the mechanics in RoI were basic enough for a two year old, and one fight was so faceroll-ishly easy that one "raiding" kin on Gladden literally spent every week running alt runs of lightning t2 just to hoard first ages, never trying anything harder because they didn't need to.
Stop catering to lazy people. Or, if you are gonna do it anyways, at least give SOME cake to the people who want a challenge (hint: not an impossible fight with broken mechanics). Please, please, PLEASE don't slap together a half-hearted "raid" that any 12 goons can do by simply getting together and pushing through to victory. That's not a raid. It just insults those of us who desire a tough victory, something actually worthwhile.
Purely by population numbers, it's probably not worth it to Turbine to develop content for that small group of people, but Turbine has done so in the past and those of us in that group always hold on to the hope (perhaps futilely) that Turbine will continue to do so.
There were at least 115 kinships raiding Orthanc and posting in the progression thread. Probably at least 20 players per kinship. I'm sure there were more raiding and not posting. I know not everyone is progression raiding, but virtually everyone seems to be wearing raid gear from T1 pugs. Most raiders that I know also do just about everything else the non-raiders do.
I hear what your saying, I'm just hoping there is some tracking statistic that shows it's not true.
It would have been, frankly, absurd to not try to take advantage of the upcoming movie. Even if it does poorly it will still bring more customers here.
But this renders mounted combat a gimmick. No big deal for many or even most, I imagine. Yet for those of us who hoped mounted combat would represent a future direction for the game, it's the end of the road. Either that or be demoted to foot soldiers once more, alas.
Hey guys. Moving away from the clusters a minute, i have to know what exactly is going to happen with western rohan? Someone mentioned the word exapnsion with that? Surely not, to my understanding all of rohan is supposed to be one big expansion yes, and that the whole thing is just too big to release all in one go. So when is western rohan coming, in December, or in Feburary?
It was too easy for regular raiders. Not too easy for a lot of PUGs though.
I disagree. Sure pugs can wipe at it, but pugs have been quite successful running it, unlike Saruman T1 or ToO T2. Aside from T1, I do not think a raid's difficulty should be based on what a pug could do.
When you say "casual kins" you mean kins with enough players to get together to run it together, presumably I think kins that actually do raids or instances together.
I'm thinking of one that takes a while to get ToO T1 done.. quite a while on Saruman (if they ever did.. I'm not sure) and has never been able to complete a ToO T2 wing, that raids together a couple times a month if they can pull the numbers together.
We should never judge difficulty of content based upon what the top tier of players think.
Which I wasn't doing regarding Draigoch.
Last edited by Lothirieth; Nov 27 2012 at 12:12 AM.
I just want some Rohan related Instances with entrances in Ost-Emnet, thats what i paid for when i bought the Rohan Addon.
Instances related to The Hobbit Movie are ok, but thats not what i ordered, when i bought the Addon. Those announced Instances could have been another upgrade you could buy with Points or something, that would be great .. but not as part of the Rohan Addon..
Now i feel betrayed.. cause i get some hobbit instances instead of rohan instances for my addon payment .. and when rohan instances will show up somewhen later, i will likely have to pay again for them..
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I'm more excited for the raids. I love lair raids that can be completed in one sitting. The super long raids that take multiple gaming sessions to complete usually end in me never seeing the complete raid.
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