Thread: Update 9: Against the Shadow and the Rohan Instance cluster

Originally Posted by Burio

3x3mans noone cares about?
1x6 man?
No Multibossraid.

Do you guys work at office or just sleep?

No Multibossraid is extremely disappointing.. cant describe it.

Well... one question: What to do until February??

The crux of the matter is that Turbine is teaching us that their word is ever-evolving and should never be taken at face value - nor should derived expectations be based on previous experience with this game. Anyone else find that incredibly disheartening?

When they say "instance cluster", people think of Dol Guldur, In Their Absence and Tower of Orthanc.
I don't need to draw the lines explaining where and how this new crop doesn't belong - and is in no way connotative of what has historically meant "instance cluster".

Sure, I'll reserve final judgment for when I actually experience them, but I am now completely done giving them the benefit of the doubt - or my good faith.

DON'T SET TIMELINES. Don't use terminology that creates expectations logically based on past history of your product. You don't do yourselves a lick of good because you can no longer deliver the way you used to.

"Against the Shadow"? Really?? How freaking generic is that? Forgive my disapproval, but you popped my hope balloon with the title alone. We have no business traveling from Snowbourne to Dale in the context of the current timeline or story.

Creative capital must not have made the last round of cuts, either.
Eeeehsh....

Originally Posted by Galuhad

I am not surprised to see Hobbit related instances, and whilst they divert from the main story, I am very excited to see these parts of Middle-earth. My main concern is with raids being released so late, they never take off as well because they are over-shadowed by expansions looming in the not so distant future. I personally hope we do not get an expansion in 2013 and we get some decent end-game content to really work at with more focussed updates instead.

I do not mind single-boss raids, at least there are three of them.. Can be run one after the other for those wanting multi-boss raids. I just hope they prove interesting and not mind numbingly simple like the turtle raid.

With all this Hobbit related content I hope to god that the press department has a good marketing strategy in place to pull in fresh blood.

I agree Gal!

Hopefully they will be a bit more on the Draig side to curb that, but I really do think what folks are asking for is a 12-player dungeon style raid that launches with an expansion (like SoM did) so that kinships can have a full year to really go at it. DN and OD suffered because of their timeline to live, and ToO while released in Q4 was really top notch raid that most kins were only getting down June/July and that was hampered by expansion release news where folks just saw the content not worth repeat play bc it was obsolete.

There are a couple ways this can be amended. Release raids sooner, deliver expansions always 1 quarter later than the previous, make some part of that raid content or gear more lasting (at least necklaces were that from ToO), but it has to be a bit more than just that. Maybe it's the decon of a 1st age or something.

Im just flushing out that I think this content type is highly desired by many, and numbers that may confront that may be misleading based on things Gal points out above or the lasting value of the loot from that content.

Naturally, what some want is not what all want...and I think this strategy from Turbine is good for the company and for many many players. I think also though the type of food you leave in the tray will also encourage the type of company and culture you desire to maintain. A good mix is best imo as my kin enjoys all of it, I think this veers a bit away from some player styles/interests more strongly than in the past, but it is worth giving it a review and sound try, but also worth taking note on what later content does when new xpacs are announced. I think replay value and strong steady play up until release is desirable from all parties and all styles.


Another suggestion is that I am not sure level cap increases are the only modus operandi to new skills and traits. We don't nec need new levels every expansion. The main purpose is to gain new skills and to create certain content that is gates to certain levels. OD and the EoD cluster were 75 and while an update from the F2P "Expansion," it worked fine except for the quick RoI level up. Why not for example just have raid deeds and other instance or landscape event deeds be paths toward new skills and traits. This would help all content at that present level cap work together and provide variety. Raids while being harder and require more people to contribute could take less of deed X while instance or landscape deeds of a sort take more...it's a thought in a way to not make previous gear and content obsolete every year. You could release West Rohan while keeping us at 85 and doing New and Older content all toward a similar purpose (new skills, traits, gear etc)

Originally Posted by GingerAj

Mega Happy at the Clusters being released later on ...that hopefully means less bugs and gives me time to gear up get to 85 ...and virtue grind (can only do this once in uni break *sigh*)

Many people have mentioned that more time means less bugs, but look at RoR it was delayed by 5 weeks and it is still very buggy especially MC. How bad would it have been if it was not delayed.

Draigoch was delayed for many months but it was, and still is, very buggy.

Well said moonwalk.

I too appreciate the sentiment of wanting to release quality instances, but the cynic in me wonders why Turbine is no longer able to release material on time.. and is also using these as faux updates (since we were once promised regular updates.) Material we've paid for is now taking the place of these updates.

Whilst the locations and content of the new instances are intriguing from a lore perspective....

I'm quite disappointed and not excited. And what an odd turn to suddenly go to Hobbit stuff. I know the movie is coming out and all, but I hardly see how this can attract that many new customers given this is all endgame stuff. Also, we've been spending lots of time in Rohan so where is the group content regarding that?

I'll reserve judgement for when I see the raids as something like the Watcher could be fun. But I'll really miss having a multi-lair raid. It's not good to have to wait 4! months for all expansion content to come out. Whilst it's nicer to have something in the meantime but I'm really perplexed as to why one of the lair bosses and a 6-man couldn't have been released first. Groups that like to raid likely aren't inundated with tanks. I forsee grouping and getting everyone into this content when they're interested in seeing it to be a bit difficult.

I just feels like Turbine is giving some of us less and less reason to log in. I play Lotro to have a solo AND group experience... as it has always been.

.
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Originally Posted by Xferno

I assume there will a separate price for just the IC seeing as you can just by the Quest pack for TP. I believe that's how it was in ROI.

This is completely wrong. The 4kTP(ish...4295 I think?) expansion that is available on the store does include the instance cluster. Sapience has said this, also the store made it clear.

Originally Posted by ShotgunStalker

I don't understand this....why do so many people want the raids to be hard?

So we have something to do for more than a week. The alliance I'm in beat ToO T1 the first week it came out. T2 was an entirely different situation that kept us busy.

Originally Posted by Lohi

Depending on difficulty of course. Draigoch was about right, a LOT of casual players got into that one and had fun compared to the Watcher which excluded so many people for so long.

No, Draigoch was not about right. It was far too easy. Casual kins completed it fairly fast.

Originally Posted by Cindir

Just curious - but over the past 6 months, what have you been doing as a raider? Has there been enough content to raid weekly in this game recently? Is it doing the same thing over and over again? How often do you raid?

(and I honestly don't know because I don't raid at all, so am curious)

My alliance was trying to finish up all ToO hard modes and get the Original challenger of Saruman title. Now that we've done that, things have screeched to a halt. There are some skirmish raids and a Thorog or two, but we're not playing with each other all that much. Most of the group and leveling and gearing multiple alts, but personally I can only stand to get the one toon up to 85 and geared. I have zero motivation to do that with another. I'm also logging into Lotro less.

Dear Turbine/Lotro developers,

This great game is slowly dying and please make some major changes before Elder Scrolls Online run you over next year. Do you honestly think that throwing tons and tons of new content while the mechanics and the schema remains the same and unchanged will keep us happy? OK yes, we have new mounted combat (peak of it is to kill Bugud), open tapping and auto-loot systems, but that is nothing that could be done to keep the fire of this game burning. You are ignoring lots of good suggestions presented to you from the real engine of this game and that is us, the players. Even when this new instance cluster arrives that will not save the day. Community sites like LotroInterface are less and less active, plugins and skins are abandoned, and imho that is a bad sign for any game. I would rather see more gameplay changes than this instance cluster in 2 phases.

Please make some core changes like:
1. Revamp kinship system, introduce kin alliances, wars, kin ranks, kin specific content, kin bonuses/buffs for pure kin raid etc.
2. Make old instances scalable! fast! and revamp the loot tables
3. Introduce new mechanics of some kind, new combat play, new LI mechanics
4. Give us more personalized content, better customization system
5. Make more public instances and landscape events that anyone can join
6. Open moors for non VIP players with some sort of weekly time limit
7. Make cross servers content/instances possible
8. Fix server lag issues and rubberbanding
..etc..etc

I hope Turbine will come to some senses!

Well, at least I don't have to hurry to get to level 85 anytime soon.

I honestly can't believe how you manage to make an entirely solo-expansion and then manage to push the eeny-weeny-tiny-bit of real group content available all the way to February (with it probably being obsolete by June due to the announcement of another level cap raise, and before anyone says 'but you've got 3 raids', remember that almost all previous raids had 5-6 bosses... with BG the exception which needed a full hour of trash inbetween to keep people from going to fast through. So 3 'wings' isn't a lot at all.).

I'm appreciating the new concern about polish and quality though, just doubting your prioritization. By the end of the year your main end game will be 4-months old dailies, the 'nice, bite-sized sidegame' of skirmishes and 'variety from true 6-man' 3-mans... ie. almost all sidegames, where's the real content gone?

There isn't enough of the finest weed in the south farthing for me to misidentify that what Turbine is attempting to do should be considered illegal.

Tout a Rohan-related instance cluster as part of the expansion pre-purchase then release unrelated material after they accept payment?

Love the game, will never quit, but ya gotta call bull&&&& when ya smell it.

Originally Posted by Lohi

Yes, they need two maybe, and reduce number of raids. I really think, though I don't have numbers, that multi-wing raiders are in a very tiny minority in this game. The vast majority at soloers, and the next biggest group are more casual groupers, and very few at all are in the kin-only tier 2 show-off-your-gear raiders. It's really not worth it for Turbine to spend too many resources on content which very few people do.

But 3 one person raids that could be fun. Depending on difficulty of course. Draigoch was about right, a LOT of casual players got into that one and had fun compared to the Watcher which excluded so many people for so long.

You're probably right about the relative populations in this game. I'm sure that people capable of completing T2C content are a small minority, but that is by design and definition - if a large percentage of people can complete the most difficult content then there is no difficult content.

Purely by population numbers, it's probably not worth it to Turbine to develop content for that small group of people, but Turbine has done so in the past and those of us in that group always hold on to the hope (perhaps futilely) that Turbine will continue to do so.

So yes - by and large I find that I have to agree with you. I must object to your "show-off-your-gear" descriptor, though - the top tier raiders that I know don't show off their gear or link it in GLFF, and the people that do get off on linking stuff in GLFF or otherwise drawing attention to themselves (at least on E) tend to not be in the elite groups (someone in another thread used the fantastic term "second team syndrome" to describe such folks). In the interest of full disclosure, I must confess that I have linked my [Map Home] a few times.

3 mans is a slap in the face to be honest i like 6 mans and 12 mans and since those are not tell feb. really debating taking a break tell feb since you have nothing to do but run skirm raids which i'm bored of now

Content is in the eye of the beholder. For me this is a really cool step! I was surprsied that Turbine would take the route to make a Hobbit themed update, but awesome all the name.

Concerning the raids. From what it sounds like they'll be based around the Lonely Mountain. I just have to ask how it'll relate to the present. Since the Battle of Five Armies happened 60ish years before the start of Lord of the Rings, how will our characters fit into things? Will it be like a session play thing, or a way to start the Battle for Erebor early?

I ask since in the timeline of Lord of the Rings Sauron doesn't launch his huge attack til after Isengard is defeated, and when Aragorn shows himself in the palantir. Which is a big gap for that from where we are currently in the Epic books. So my mind just can't quite contemplate how the raids/6 man will work into the story. The 3 mans I don't see as much of a stretch.

About the idea of a multi boss raid. Honestly, I find that from a Lore angle it'd be hard to do. Cause remember, the last multi boss raid ended with facing Saruman! He is the ultimate baddy in Rohan.You can't really top that without it feeling out of place. Single boss raids thus aren't trying to top the previous multi boss raid. So I can't comment on a gameplay aspect.

Overall it sounds exciting, lets hope it shows up well in game for the raids come next year.

Hi !
Thanks for the information !
Any french version of this soon plz ?

Originally Posted by Piedtendre

Hi !
Any french version of this soon plz ?

Salut, tu l'as sur le site des furets du gondor (fais une recherche sur google pour le trouver

While I know that opinions will likely vary, how can people not be upset with not being given what you've paid for?

Rowan: Thank you for you replies in this thread, while I am not necessarily happy with the form that the instance cluster seems to have taken I do hope that this thread demonstrates to Turbine how important a healthy end-game is to LOTRO... I have a few questions which I doubt that you will answer but I want to ask anyway.

1) Fellowship (6-man) content used to form the backbone of LOTRO group play with landscape content, epic books and instances. Now it has been relegated to an almost insignificant part of the overall picture. While most group players appreciate the need for for the epics story to NOT be gated behind group play where does that leave the player who enjoys full fellowship content? Landscape content is almost exclusively solo and instances seem to be 3-man orientated these days. Maybe you would like to comment on the reason for this?

2) The scaling mechanic was introduced with update 1 i.e. F2P. Since that time, other than Forsaken Inn and Hall of Night, none of the instances/raids introduced have been scalable. Why? I can understand the OD cluster not being scalable as it was probably quite far along in development when scaling was released but why has the RoI cluster + roots of fangorn not been built to scale from the point up? Is this a design/technology limitation or are you simply too pushed for time that scaling is an after-thought? It would seem to me that you are creating work for yourself by not making everything post OD scalable but maybe there is a rationale behind it that is not obvious to the lay-person like myself. Care to explain?

3) If there is not going to be landscape content revolving around the new 'cluster' are you worried that you will alienate solo player. These are iconic location you are taking players too... one which both raider and solo player will wish to venture too... If i were a solo player I would be annoyed about this being gated beyond my reach. Do you have any comments to make regarding this?

That's all I can think off for now... I implore all LOTRO players who enjoy instance/raid content to post in this thread to remind Turbine how important it is to the game.

Originally Posted by Ghibhay

Salut, tu l'as sur le site des furets du gondor (fais une recherche sur google pour le trouver

Merci

Mais c'est surtout pour avoir les noms officiels en FR, le reste c'est bon.

I'm not really bothered by the cluster being split, or the fact that the raid are single boss as inmostly solo. But I am annoyed that Turbine result in lack of respect for their loyal customer. Many of us have stuck with this game through its good and bad times only to have little to no communication and to be treated like we arnt smart enough to see that you are manipulating us through your broken promises. We pay for an expansion only to have half of it witheld from us for 3-5 months. Just not acceptable. What's the chances in Feb you come along and say "we're releasing the 6 man and 1 raid only, the other two will be released in May.

Bottom line, I really fear for the future of this game as this may be the final straw for some. Sad day in LOTRO history.

So I came back to LOTRO after almost 2 years away, Mirkwood and the whole F2P thing put me off for a long time. I decided to come back just before Rohan, after reading some information on the foruns I decided to buy it, hoping we would get a nice instance cluster a month or so after the release. Instead we had to wait 2 months for information about the instances, and they are not the best news!

For me the main problem isnt about the single-boss raids its more about the fact that there is only one 6-man instance coming! There were so many of them in Moria and Angmar.. all of them different and fun! Why only one now? 3-man instances are good too but there should be less of them, its harder to get a group, they dont have good loot and too often there is no real challenge in them.

I'm very disappointed, I should have kept my money instead of trusting Turbine. I should have known better, F2P and Mirkwood were a good lesson but I ignored the warnings. Rohan was not worth the money, the quests were boring and pretty much the same in every diferent city, hytbold is just a joke and now the only thing that could save it were the instances but that doesnt seem too good either.

And Turbine.. really lauching instances without having the surrouding world landscape? How sad is that? I like to walk to the entrance of instances, not of your silly port system for lazy people!

Well i am glad that we see some activity and like that we are streching towards that areas.
To be honest though i was hoping seeing them as Landscapes. I dont know if someone can answer this but Is there a chance to see that in the future?

Also glad about the hotfix!!!

Originally Posted by p3tar

Dear Turbine/Lotro developers,

This great game is slowly dying and please make some major changes before Elder Scrolls Online run you over next year. Do you honestly think that throwing tons and tons of new content while the mechanics and the schema remains the same and unchanged will keep us happy? OK yes, we have new mounted combat (peak of it is to kill Bugud), open tapping and auto-loot systems, but that is nothing that could be done to keep the fire of this game burning. You are ignoring lots of good suggestions presented to you from the real engine of this game and that is us, the players. Even when this new instance cluster arrives that will not save the day. Community sites like LotroInterface are less and less active, plugins and skins are abandoned, and imho that is a bad sign for any game. I would rather see more gameplay changes than this instance cluster in 2 phases.

Please make some core changes like:
1. Revamp kinship system, introduce kin alliances, wars, kin ranks, kin specific content, kin bonuses/buffs for pure kin raid etc.
2. Make old instances scalable! fast! and revamp the loot tables
3. Introduce new mechanics of some kind, new combat play, new LI mechanics
4. Give us more personalized content, better customization system
5. Make more public instances and landscape events that anyone can join
6. Open moors for non VIP players with some sort of weekly time limit
7. Make cross servers content/instances possible
8. Fix server lag issues and rubberbanding
..etc..etc

I hope you will come to your senses.

I'm sorry, I have to disagree on many of your points!

@1: there are little MMOs out there with such nice story line and roleplaying aspects... if you want bigger wars, you should start like 2 raids vs 2 raids in the ettenmoors or change to another game. why one game has to provide everything?
@2: I'm sorry again, do you really wish to have even more top-level players who cant play, because on lower levels no instances are done? make more scaleabel = less content for lower characters...
@3/4: you are not really happy with the game you play actually, arent you?
@5: I'm happy we have landscape events with the warbands... probably there will be more of this within a new area.. but as you know it will be some time until we get a new zone, I dont think something like that should be spent time on atm, it might be a topic after february...
@6: Here I totally agree with you, but I guess the moors are the major thing VIP-only atm.. so many ppl would stop paying if this falls... Maybe better accept it as a fact... if many ppl stop paying, the game will also die in some other way, as development needs resources :-)
@7: whatever you wish to do.. but as a player on a RP-server I'm afraid of this
@8: YES! I would like to see more of the bug-fixing... but as you maybe can see, for doing more bug-fixing, other stuff like releasing new stuff and instances will slow down... as the majority (in this threat e.g.) is calling for new content or proposing other changes to the game to be made... well... you think this will help the bug-fixing to increase?

Have a nice time if you re online in the world of lotro,
I enjoy the game a lot recently, mainly due to the nice graphics in Rohan, so I'm quite happy..

Yours

Hang on a second let me just check something...... I thought so I didn't accidently sign up for The Hobbit Online so I can whinge about this. After waiting 5 years to enter rohan I find it totally disgusting that none of these instances are Rohan based just a typical cash in on the movie releases. Oh and seriously 3 lair bosses? I liked the idea at first and then remembered how Draigoch was so badly bugged and as far as I am aware still is, add to this the totally unhelpful nature of the GM team regarding when said bug occured I can honestly say I am expecting very little from this.

To everyone complaing about the lack of a multi-boss raid:

You have an official statement from Rowan in this thread (Post 93 on Page 5) stating that these three raids may be thought of as being three wings of a traditional multi-boss raid.

So what we are essentially getting is another Barad Guldur style raid. And that was both challenging and enjoyable. So chill out and wait for more news from bullroarer (NDA permitting if there is one) before freaking out and threatening to rage quit.

In my opinion this is a shameful display for a MMO. Your trying to suck new players by backing your advertising off The Hobbit movie to be released, and you have given dedicated fans months of pondering for 3 lame 3 mans and a promise of some nonsense in the future with 1 raid bosses? This just plain blows Turbine/WB. Even if it is decent like the watcher we just didnt get the watcher in that update with moria we got all of Moria. This just seem pathetically weak to me.

Cheered when I saw the article on the upcoming instance cluster ... When I read the whole thing I don't really feel like cheering anymore.

3-man instances *sigh*
Since these usually require the holy trinity of "tank/dps/healer" most of the 'dps' will have a hard time finding a fellowship at all. Can't say I'm looking forward to heal on my all my characters with healing abilities 95% of the time and my hunter waiting in the IF for hours.

I ran draigoch twice ... Absolutely hated this instance. Now imagine my face when I saw three upcoming dragonslaying experiences with possible braindead dragons and characters getting themselves lost (me) and getting killed.
(Seriously I manage to get lost in the building I'm working: my sense of direction is zero >.<)

Mounted combat => Officially dead once instance cluster is out?
Can't say I'ed blame them, still lots to do with all the lag, rubberbanding etc. Still feels like a waste to have a new gadget to play with and all you do is hunt one mob for 2mins once he and his friends have spawned for the next months.



On the other hand ... We're going back to see places from 'the hobbit' book awesome

Originally Posted by Brya

To everyone complaing about the lack of a multi-boss raid:

You have an official statement from Rowan in this thread (Post 93 on Page 5) stating that these three raids may be thought of as being three wings of a traditional multi-boss raid.

So what we are essentially getting is another Barad Guldur style raid. And that was both challenging and enjoyable. So chill out and wait for more news from bullroarer (NDA permitting if there is one) before freaking out and threatening to rage quit.

And the best part of them being completely separate: No locks to interfere with each of the raids!!!

How many times have people been messed up because you have Frost and Fire locks and you wanted to go to a T2 lightning run that was going to do Fire and Frost afterwards?. You can't do lightning because your locks would conflict with everyone else's so they can't let you into the raid.

So I don't mind them being separate.

What I DO mind is that we only get _1_ 6 man and we have to wait for it!

I want at least 2 six mans and one should be released in the coming weeks rather than later.

I have to admit, that i am kind of disappointed by this announcment, because:

- no 6/12 Instance until February.
- no Multi Boss Raid.
- Instances are not located in or have anything to do with Rohan, though we purchased a rohan-addon with an rohan-instance-cluster.
- Instances dont have an entrance in the world, you just get ported there and we wont really explore those regions of middle earth.

this makes me sad in three ways:
- as a raider who likes to play together with all his kinships members very soon.
- as an explorer who likes to travel the lotr-world by himself and doesnt want to just get ported to special events somewhere. (when questing i was always wondering, where in east-emnet the instance-entrances will be..)
- as someone who would prefer a logical array of the content (not just push some halfbaked hobbit stuff in between and leave us hanging in rohan)

the first part of the rohan-addon (landscape and questing) was so very great, that there was hope, lotro is in a track again..

thanks :/

This isn't what I wanted... but I don't think it's as bad as it looks.

I'm disappointed, for example, that we're not going to the Lonely Mountain on the landscape... and I'm guessing we won't ever be, though hopefully I'm wrong. I'm pretty jazzed that we're going there at all, though, and that we'll get to experience the Battle of Dale. Until today, I'd been pretty resigned to the idea that we weren't going to get to go there at all.

And I'm disappointed that the 6-man and the raids will be delayed until February. But I'd rather have a well-designed, well-polished, well-realized set of instances, especially if this is our only opportunity to see Dale and the Lonely Mountain. These instances need to be good.

And I'm disappointed that we're getting single-boss raids instead of a multiboss instance. But I accept Rowan's explanation that this is necessary from a story perspective. The Battle of Dale is an event described in the appendices, and as such, there's a fixed timeline Turbine has to follow. It would be difficult to tell a weeklong story in a single instance. And just because these are single-boss raids doesn't mean that they'll be like the turtle. The Battle of Dale is one of the most important battles of the War of the Ring; hopefully these will feel like important, large-scale battles with a boss at the end rather than little lair raids like the turtle. If so, these raids may follow a format unlike anything we've seen in LOTRO so far.

Which leads me to a guess. I think I have a hunch why Turbine has chosen the Battle of Dale as the subject for this instance cluster. Yes, it's obviously a Hobbit tie-in. It's wise to have one, of course, and it probably will draw some people in if Turbine markets it properly, though again, i would rather have a landscape version of these locations. I think this could also be a test-run for Helm's Deep, though. This is the first large-scale battle we'll be taking part in, after all, so it might be desgined in part to test some of the technology the devs will be using for Helm's Deep... which again makes me think that these will be more than lair raids.

There is a tie-in to Rohan, by the way. The bad guys in this instance cluster are going to be the Easterlings. I've wondered why Turbine has given so much attention to the Easterlings in the Great River and Rohan, becuase, to my knowledge, the Easterlings never attacked Rohan during the War of the Ring in the books. I think this is the reason. By engaging and defeating the Easterlings in Dale and at Erebor, we're preventing Rohan from being attacked from the east, which allows the Rohirrim to focus their defenses on Isengard in the west. This will likely be the justification in the story for our trip to Dale.

I had expected this instance cluster to focus on preventing war on Rohan from the east. I have to say, though, I certainly didn't expect it to take this shape...

Three thoughts:

1. Excited that there should be instances to run around Christmas-time.

2. Disappointing that the larger instances wont be available until February

3. In response to the complaints about single boss raids, I honestly can't see us just fighting one boss during the Battle of Erebor. Also, Rowan's comment if you didn't already see it:

Originally Posted by Rowan

The 12-man instances are the Battle of Dale, and could be thought of as wings of the same raid. We separated them to give context to the story as the battle proceeds over the course of a week.

EDIT: Ok, so in terms of timeline, these instances throw everything WAY out of whack.

War of the Ring

• February 23, 3019 - First Battle of the Fords of Isen
• March 2, 3019 - Second Battle of the Fords of Isen
• March 2, 3019 - Destruction of Isengard
• March 3, 3019 - Battle of the Hornburg
• March 13, 3019 - Battle of Osgiliath
• March 15, 3019 - Battle of the Pelennor Fields
• March 17–20, 3019 - Battle of Dale
• March 25, 3019 - Battle of the Morannon
• March 27, 3019 - Lifting of the siege of Erebor

Also, Battle under the Trees of Lorien takes place March 11-22 and the Battle of Mirkwood takes place March 23-25.

Based on what has happened in game thus far, I think it is safe to assume that it must be March 1st in game.

• February 23, 3019 - first Battle of the Fords of Isen.
• February 26, 3019 - battles with orcs near Parth Galen
• February 29, 3019 - Rohirrim destroy the orcs who captured Merry and Pippin

So these instances are just skipping ahead over three weeks in terms of the story? I'm a bit confused...

Originally Posted by Brya

To everyone complaing about the lack of a multi-boss raid:

You have an official statement from Rowan in this thread (Post 93 on Page 5) stating that these three raids may be thought of as being three wings of a traditional multi-boss raid.

So what we are essentially getting is another Barad Guldur style raid. And that was both challenging and enjoyable. So chill out and wait for more news from bullroarer (NDA permitting if there is one) before freaking out and threatening to rage quit.

Barad Guldur had difficult trash pulls that took time to work through which sort of took the place of bosses... at least regarding some time spent. Unless each of the 3 single-boss raids has intricate trash to get through, we're getting less content. I mean, really, think about the previous raids and all the encounters they had regarding trash and mini bosses.. and compare them to doing a Turtle, Watcher and Draigoch. It's just not the same really. We'll have to see what the storyline is like once we get them regarding any cohesive feeling.

Originally Posted by vermknid

A few questions ...

1. Were instances touted as part of the Riders of Rohan expansion pre-purchase?
2. Were instances to have been included at the time of the expansions release?
3. Are the instances to be released in any way, shape, or form the instance cluster that was to have been released with the Riders of Rohan expansion?
4. What did we pay for? what are we getting?
5. Is that legal? If I buy an apple or orange on the assumption that that's what will be delivered and you give me a lemon is that a form of theft?

...

1. Yes, well known
2. No, well known, even a part of the Pre Order FAQ
3. Yes? There was no official information.
4. The RoR Xpac, later to be released Instance Cluster, whatever goodies went with your pre order package.
4a. The RoR Xpac, later to be released Instance Cluster, whatever goodies went with your pre order package.
5. Not sure why it wouldn't be.
5a. Not being an expert in law or produce buying, I'd say yes you're example would constitute some form of theft. Of course if you purchased a crate and it came with some undisclosed type of produce at a later date and you expected an apple or orange because they were local and in season, but got a lemon, that would not constitute a form of theft.

Originally Posted by Zombielord

Mounted combat => Officially dead once instance cluster is out?
Can't say I'ed blame them, still lots to do with all the lag, rubberbanding etc. Still feels like a waste to have a new gadget to play with and all you do is hunt one mob for 2mins once he and his friends have spawned for the next months.

I doubt it. We know there's going to be more mounted combat in the Westemnet, at least. And I have a hunch that at least one of these--Flight to the Lonely Mountain--might involve mounted combat. Picture us hacking and slashing our way past mounted Easterlings in an attempt to clear the way for the retreating soldiers and citizens of the Dale-Lands as they flee to Erebor... and then, suddenly, a ringwraith swoops down on his fell beast, which is too fast and dangerous for us to fight on foot...

Really, it seems like the sort of thing mounted combat is made for.

Originally Posted by Urfang

We'll know more when we see the instances. I would like to see something really challenging in Rohan though.

You know what I’d like to see? A “Defense of Hytbold” raid.

Full raid size. Several phases.

The setting: Hytbold has been rebuilt. The orcs hung back and let you do it so they could demoralize everyone by burning it again.

Phase 1:
Not mounted.
Siege!
Manning the walls as the raiders attack.
Big phase for ranged people.
Object…whittle down the attackers as much as possible before they breach the walls.

Phase 2:
Mounted
Sortie!
While the enemy regroups after their losses at the wall (you hope they had losses) you run sorties into their ranks trying to destroy siege engines, etc..
There would be TONS of enemies on foot and the sorties would go right through them. Close coordination between the “spear tip” riders and those behind healing, etc. would be crucial. This will be easier the more enemies were killed in the siege phase.

Phase 3:
Not mounted.
Breached!
The walls are breached and you fight a gradual retreat to the mead hall, cutting down as many foes as possible on the way.
Big phase for melee people with range and healers in the back doing what they can.

Phase 4:
Not mounted.
Turning the tide.
Beat a raid boss at the mead hall and other raid bosses at strategic places throughout the city.

Phase 5:
Mounted.
Harrying the retreat.
The enemy has been driven out of Hytbold, but if allowed to regroup, remains a threat. So a last sortie is sent out to harry the retreat. One or two bosses will be fleeing and must be destroyed before they can exit the map.

Now, IMO, that would be a blast and a half. Foot combat. Mounted combat. Offense. Defense. Advancing. Retreating. And an absolute requirement for coordination.

(This is a re-post from something I put up on our Kinship site...)

And after the battle you have to rebuild the parts of Hytbold that were damaged :P. Jokes aside, is sounds like tons of fun.

Now let me second some of the thoughts posted earlier

Single raid boos doesn't necesarily mean faceroll like Draigoch or turtle. Best to wait and see what we got

It's been a while since I bothered about the timeline. We simply do many things to expect it perfectly fits. A little time ago I read a theory that said not all the events are experienced by the same character (so for example the dwarven characters actually only experience MoM and SoM, elven just SoM. Men SoA RoI and RoR, but not a single man, but tons of them depending on location and timeline) It's a little clunky I know, but as Rowan said, you make some sacrifices to tell a good stories, and there are too much stories to be experienced during the War of the Ring.

I'm seriously depressed. It's like turbine had to make a choice about what portion of their player base to displease and they picked raiders and groupers as they're the minority. Except that Rohan is a solo heavy expansion already and this way we get cut off entirely until February.

It's not about being hardcore, it's about playing (and enjoying a challenge) with friends and kinmates. This is a MMORPG after all, we're supposed to play together, if I wanted to play solo there's a billion better games out there.

What should our events look like until feb? Gather up and then split in 3 man groups, hoping we have enough healers and tanks? We want to play toghether, like, you know, in a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER game.

I know we have scaled content, I know. Trivial, old content with hardly any rewards in it, yeah. Wooo.

I know it sounds trite, but I think time has come for me to take a break. There's nothing appealing for me right now, this was just the last drop.

Can't pvp because of lag, got bored doing dailies, warbands are trivial, never liked skirmishes in the first place, ToO is now too easy. While pugging scaled content, finding a full group is the real challenge as the rewards are worthless. I liked Fornost but you even closed Earth's wing so that it's now impossible to pug the last two wings and we're left with water wraith only. And then comes the cluster news. I'm not even angry, I'm just sad cause I like this game and would really like to play it, if only there was something left for me. I really wish Rohan didn't come with a cap increase, so we could at least go on running what we had in RoI.

Originally Posted by Lothirieth

Barad Guldur had difficult trash pulls that took time to work through which sort of took the place of bosses... at least regarding some time spent. Unless each of the 3 single-boss raids has intricate trash to get through, we're getting less content. I mean, really, think about the previous raids and all the encounters they had regarding trash and mini bosses.. and compare them to doing a Turtle, Watcher and Draigoch. It's just not the same really. We'll have to see what the storyline is like once we get them regarding any cohesive feeling.

I'd prefer no trash at all to BG-style trash, although the Gauntlet was fun as a Champ. I just don't want to run into TimeSink Lights again.

I'd far prefer boss fights with adds that must be dealt with, like Gortheron or Orthanc Shadow Challenge. In fact, a Gortheron-length lair boss wouldn't be that bad, although even with three such fights we'll be done with all three wings in an hour to an hour and a half (which is neither an inherently good nor bad thing).

For all i care you can wait till february 2020 for those instances. this will be another stab in the back for lotro.

3 silly single boss raids, and that in february 2013? omg you cant be serious...

1 6 man? for those little kinships like mine you should have don 3 6 man and that in rohan not somewhere far back in story and time.


This is the greatest joke ive read in the last 2 months, and again im angry buyin RoR in hope it will get better.... sad.

Let me throw in my opinion here.

1) At least we get something new to do besides the boring, monotonous Hytbold rebuilding "challenge".
New 3-man instances sound OK, I think we'll have to see.

2) The upcoming single-boss "raids". Let me be clear: Keep it simple! Your motivation to build up an intense single-boss lair encounter failed uttermost with Draigoch being bugged as hell and broken still today. Keep it simple, keep it safe.
When it comes to the raids, I guess we'll have to see how they are set up and if they are rewarding at least.

3) This is what kind of makes me furious.

What in the name of Elbereth has Erebor and the Lonely Mouintain to do with Riders of Rohan????

War is on their Doorstep in Rohan and you are seriously taking us somewhere else? Please tell me why I spend my precious time to help re-building this idiotic Rohirrim City named Hytbold step by step, if I am going to leave Rohan behind to help out some dwarfs? Seriously?

This really sounds like "Hey, The Hobbit movie is coming out: Let's jump on the merchandise train and try to grab some new potential players!" Might work for getting some new cash in, but severely lacks in trust and honoration for all of your players. Players who payed the most expensive Addon for an MMO - to re-live Rohan.
Yet, you abandon all of it in return for "jumping on the mainstream train" aka the Hobbit movie. Thank you very much.
I really was hoping for Helm's Deep or Rohan story progression, but thanks for making one thing clear: Never to buy any Deluxe / Legendary Edition any more in the future. I pay a lot in trust and with this move you really went to far. Sorry to say, but this is how I see it.

Originally Posted by Thurinos

I'm sorry, I have to disagree on many of your points!

@1: there are little MMOs out there with such nice story line and roleplaying aspects... if you want bigger wars, you should start like 2 raids vs 2 raids in the ettenmoors or change to another game. why one game has to provide everything?
@2: I'm sorry again, do you really wish to have even more top-level players who cant play, because on lower levels no instances are done? make more scaleabel = less content for lower characters...
@3/4: you are not really happy with the game you play actually, arent you?
@5: I'm happy we have landscape events with the warbands... probably there will be more of this within a new area.. but as you know it will be some time until we get a new zone, I dont think something like that should be spent time on atm, it might be a topic after february...
@6: Here I totally agree with you, but I guess the moors are the major thing VIP-only atm.. so many ppl would stop paying if this falls... Maybe better accept it as a fact... if many ppl stop paying, the game will also die in some other way, as development needs resources :-)
@7: whatever you wish to do.. but as a player on a RP-server I'm afraid of this
@8: YES! I would like to see more of the bug-fixing... but as you maybe can see, for doing more bug-fixing, other stuff like releasing new stuff and instances will slow down... as the majority (in this threat e.g.) is calling for new content or proposing other changes to the game to be made... well... you think this will help the bug-fixing to increase?

Have a nice time if you re online in the world of lotro,
I enjoy the game a lot recently, mainly due to the nice graphics in Rohan, so I'm quite happy..

Yours

No one expects that we all have the same taste and opinion about some parts of this game. My comments:

1. I didn't said Lotro doesn't have awesome lore and story line and i really cant see how some improvements to currently dull kinship system could hurt that and you picked out only the wars?!? what about kin specific content, more improvement to make players run kin raids and content... there are lots of details that could be improved
Have you ever tried moors full fraid vs craid (lets keep it to 1vs1 raid)? It's a rubber-band joke for most of the players even with strong PC's and fast internet connection, and again moors is VIP only right?

2. Why in the world would be scalable instance unavailable to lower players, its scalable! and why that would produce more top-level players who cant play?!? How often are old instances run on your server? On the server i am, maybe a few in the whole month... What is wrong with, for example, lvl 85 RoF with new loot or other old instances and new loot tables, ppls would have something to do other than power leveling their alts for crafting, rebilding Hytbold for empty deeds and killing 3 warbans once a day (last two can be done in 30mins)

3/4. If i didn't like this game i wouldn't write this post, you are missing the point, its naive to think that you can keep same mechanics for years and that only new content will satisfy the player, you should read suggestions forum thread more often and you can see the bad feedback in this topic as well. Even some deep lore/story players i know started to whine about the lotro dullness in some parts

5. You are happy with 3-4 warbands that are worth killing, ok, nice if you are. At least they could make that fights to require more players and some tactics

6. I bet that the vip-moors part is not the biggest part of the lotro profit, turbine store is

7. RP would remain intact, we would get bigger pool of players to play with

8. Should i care about bugs vs new content/instance cluster/misc, NO, why not, because it should not be concern of any player, we are not sitting in developer team do we?, its something that comes with this type of applications, and has to be fixed. How long are we waiting for Draig run to be fixed? And after the RoR update they managed to break some other old instances. Does that make any sense to you?

Just because Lotro have unique story line it doesn't mean it have only one type of players right?, there are deep lore players, solo players, raiders, PvP player and you have to keep them all happy to make this work imho. And spliting instance cluster in two parts is a bad joke from Turbine.

Originally Posted by Hiren

This really sounds like "Hey, The Hobbit movie is coming out: Let's jump on the merchandise train and try to grab some new potential players!" Might work for getting some new cash in, but severely lacks in trust and honoration for all of your players. Players who payed the most expensive Addon for an MMO - to re-live Rohan.
Yet, you abandon all of it in return for "jumping on the mainstream train" aka the Hobbit movie. Thank you very much.

Gotta love the drama around here.... :rollseyes:

Originally Posted by Gondalen_Drake

For all i care you can wait till february 2020 for those instances. this will be another stab in the back for lotro.

3 silly single boss raids, and that in february 2013? omg you cant be serious...

1 6 man? for those little kinships like mine you should have don 3 6 man and that in rohan not somewhere far back in story and time.


This is the greatest joke ive read in the last 2 months, and again im angry buyin RoR in hope it will get better.... sad.

What a rip-off. Legendary edition cost a lot and it's said to include an instance cluster, which is NOT ROR related!!!! What about mounted-combat? Well done, your obsession for money is screwing the game more and more.