Thread: A Letter to Turbine

Originally Posted by Darmokk

Why do you feel the need to reply to this thread if you never did PvMP?

Curiosity perhaps? By the same token, why do you feel the need to reply to Khafar?

I'm with the OP on this one. I'm fed up of Turbine turning a blind eye to cheating.

I see little difference between reaver farming and botting. In one ( which is is a bannable offense) the player recieves an unfair amount of materials and gold, in the other, an unfair amount of coms and reknown. Most of the players ( I was not one until recently) have been running about taking keeps and flipping outposts and waylaying the opposition for a long long time to get to where they are and it is incredibly annoying to watch those who would rather cheat pass their level in one day - more importantly, that it is somehow viewed as being OK. Personally, I have not seen this happening on Riddermark, although it might be - I am not the most observant of player. If it is ok if they farm, would it be ok if we ran in and killed them off first???/ Could we do that?

Originally Posted by EvilEirnie

Could Turbine put a cap on renown and infamy Per day to curve this? Thats one way, but it may impact legit players too and it take longer to rank up :S

There are people who do 5000 renown or 2500 comms per day to pace it so they don't end up on the leaderboards... 5000 renown is a decent days work in the moors, so where do we cap it? Difference is, farmers do it in under an hour...

Originally Posted by Rainothon

I do not share your opinion. I'd really hope 'added revenue by reaver farming' is -not- the ball Turbine has it's eye on when determining how to gain additional revenues from PvMP. That would be just too sardonic - and outright counterproductive in the end.

Then we can agree it's a mystery why they haven't stopped/punished farming yet, even though players have been crying out against for so long.

Also, Turbine listens to it's community. It may not always be (directly) visible. But they really do listen. This is not the time for a lack of faith. Let us not have this discussion stray in that direction.

How many threads have been made against farming? How many posts? How many times has a person been banned for calling out a farmer, and yet the farmer gone unpunished? How many people were ignored when they were begging Turbine not to insult PvP in such a way?

Turbine listens to part of the community. What about the people who have been begging for a housing revamp for years? What about the outrage against forced emotes? The examples are numerous.

It's one thing not having faith in a trustworthy person, but keeping blind faith is something completely different.

Originally Posted by Elderban

A player, or group of players, has somewhere between 20 and 30 Reavers that they farm, and those Reavers are all controlled by one or two people.

Think 20 Reavers all lined up, just sitting there waiting to be taken out.

I would go into further detail, but I believe I would get in trouble for what could be considered an exploit.

Customers were farming Renown and Infamy when I started in summer of 2007. Farming has never been something Turbine has been concerned about.

I agree that the F2P option makes it easy to farm Renown. It is same farming dynamic what has been used for over five years now. It has always been very common for someone to level a Freep to 10. Create a Creep to be farmed.

Farming Infamy is restricted by the requirement that you need a VIP account with a level 80+ Freep.

I doubt Turbine is going to change policy after all these years.. It really no different than all the quick ways to get Festival rewards that have occurred over the years.

Originally Posted by Darmokk

Why do you feel the need to reply to this thread if you never did PvMP?

He is asking a legitimate question. Why do you need to be rude and reply with an ignorant response like that? PvP'ers want more people involved with it so they can all have their fun, your not doing pvp'ers any good by acting a fool like this.

[QUOTE=mjk47;6520951
They are not depriving any other player of anything, except by "devaluing" their achiements. It all depends on how you view those achievements. If you sense of worth is dependent on the admiration of others, then you will definitely feel slighted. If however your sense of worth is grounded in your own knowledge of what you have achieved, then anyone else's actions are irrelavant.
[/QUOTE]

They are however 'devaluing' the achievements of others. High ranking toons used to be something of status, even outside the PvMP area. Now, I know on Nimrodel theres a few people who have joined LOTRO in the past year or so who are now Rank 10 or higher... Because of this, PvMP itself has been 'devalued'.

With the Rank 10 2nd agers appearing in the moors as well, this is only further encouraging people to farm.

Originally Posted by Kril

With the Rank 10 2nd agers appearing in the moors as well, this is only further encouraging people to farm.

This addition has a nice benefit for Turbine. It encourages customers to spent dollars to buy Game Time to convert their account from Free or Premium to VIP. Go to the Moors to earn Renown. There is an economic incentive to ignore the issue:

1) Revenue goes up because Freeps are farming Renown.

2) Costs are contained because Game Masters are not getting after paying customers.

It is not like a second age is anything special. Turbine previously given second ages out one to a customer for doing the solo Epic Line.

Not sure why most people do this, but I'd do it in a heartbeat if I weren't so lazy. Adding 2nd Age weapons for commendations and PvMP armour with great, exclusive PvE set bonuses was just asking for people who don't care to PvP to come to a PvP zone and figure out the fastest way to get comms. Personally, I *used* to PvP casually, but with the new gating mechanism (radiance...I mean audacity), there's no way.

So I would have no moral qualms about farming Reavers. I would get all my characters to R10, buy their Audacity gear and a 2nd Age, and then play in the 'moors, like I could for 5 years. But, as I said, I am lazy. I will instead grind out map deeds for the PvP gear I want for PvE, rather than get my face melted with no Audacity.

I focus more on Turbine's poor handling of the 'moors in general than a few people playing the system.

Originally Posted by Batel

Unfortunately, fightclubbing (as we call this) has been going on across the servers for a while. It should be a CoC violation, but realistically, it's not.

That's what I also get from this. This general scenario of farming dummies one way or another has been happening for five years since LotRO launched monster play. Like the OP states explicitly, this is not about multi-boxing. In this case it isn't even proven that it's technically boxing.

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

It is not like a second age is anything special. Turbine previously given second ages out one to a customer for doing the solo Epic Line.

You might be new to LOTRO (do you have time to play in between forum posts? ), but 2nd Ages, currently, are fairly rare and sell for 300G+. L85 2nd Ages will *eventually* be not special, but as is the way with every expansion since Beta, there are things that start out rare and difficult to obtain, and that at the moment is the 2nd Age. They may be given out for quests in the future, but that didn't happen in RoI times until months after launch.

(and if you didn't know, they get a unique cosmetic as well)

Ultimately, Turbine makes the rules for this game, and as long as they allow this to occur, it will. I have seen a few of you citing different parts of the COC, but it doesnt apply. Nice try though.

Lotro has no rules reguarding two boxing or more( i know a few people that multi box three or more pve) and besides, that loophole will always be gotten around. There is no requirement that a character has to fight back in the moors. I could simply hire myself out on a free account to anyone i choose, hop on a reaver, let a freep whack me over and over again without trying to defend myself at all, and there is no rule and never ever will be a rule in this game that forces me to do anything other than run out and die over and over again to infinity. So whats the difference between a few peeps mutliboxing a bunch of reavers or one at a time like i just described? Nothing, and there never ever will be anything that can stop it. Thats the inherent flaw with pvp in this game, and it will always exist.

Like the old addage goes, "cant beat em, join em'!" If turbine is gonna let it roll, then by all means jump in there and get some of that gravy. Enough of yah all do it, maybe it will prompt a response from turbine. Coming here to the forums with weak attempts at COC lawyering like i have seen in this thread is just pathetic and makes many of yah look like weak crybabys. I dont mean to insult anyone but seriously, sack up guys!!

As others have already pointed out, our GMs have stated that this activity is not a violation of the rules. Therefore, that is the answer. We'll pass everyone's feedback along to the appropriate teams, as we usually do, but that's the answer for right now.