Champs get 2 great sets, while our sets are mediocre at best, Champs get +5% Crit on Wild Attack and a damage increase on Merciful Strike
And I´m worried they´ll screw up the Tactical Damage Rating again, what can the betatesters say about that?
And please, everyone who´s in the Beta, tell them to give us another 3-set bonus on the Lightning Set, something that helps us with damage, not -power cost, we don´t have power problems at all
And please, everyone who´s in the Beta, tell them to give us another 3-set bonus on the Lightning Set, something that helps us with damage, not -power cost, we don´t have power problems at all
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
It makes me so mad i wanna scream.
Not being funny but with a power pool of 8.8k. How am i / we ever gonna have power problems. This is the main reason of being so mad about the ICPR bonus to Rune of Restoration. I have a different suggestion for RoRest.
Similar fashion to Fall to ******, the Rune of restoration gives a bonus depending on what attunement your are in. For example,
Frost gives +10s debuff duration,
Lightening gives +3% critical chance,
Fire gives +1 to bleeds.
And please, everyone who´s in the Beta, tell them to give us another 3-set bonus on the Lightning Set, something that helps us with damage, not -power cost, we don´t have power problems at all
Oh trust me.. I have tried! I hate it so much myself and seeing it on an end-game set makes me sick.. Still hoping Turbine will change it..
1) If you're referring to the set bonuses that you've seen on the screenies of the teal RK armor, remember that these bonuses were stolen from the other sets for development purposes. They are most likely just placeholders. They WILL change. When they do, I'm sure someone (or I) will post screenies.
2) The gear you've seen so far is not the true end-game gear. Technically, it is, but new gear will come out when the instances come out.
3) It is also possible that this gear will not be released with RoR, and may in fact be the instance gear that will be released when the instances are released. If this is the case, then the gear is definitely going to be different.
4) The tactical damage rating is still being manually tweaked by the Dev's. Not sure if I've seen any mention of it in BR forums or in-game though. We'll need to double-check this when RoR releases. It's very possible this was overlooked.
5) I've not seen ZombieColumbus's name anywhere in the forums, in game, or in the Dev Diary. However, he is still listed in the beta credits, so he's still employed by Turbine/WBE.
6) The power recovery from the Sigil of Healing is, well, meh. It's nice. We asked for it a LONG time ago, and it's just now surfacing when the RK community no longer really needs it. If we gripe about it now, Dev's will assume we are idiots for hating a feature that we specifically asked for. I sorta agree with them. But it's not amazing, it's just meh. The REAL benefit is from power recovery on everyone else in the group. Hunters and LM's will love you. Instead of thinking of it as a power-recovery skill that we DON'T need, think of it as a group utility skill that we DO need.
7) Leveling on beta has been difficult because of so many broken quests. Turbine really is doing a lot of new stuff with the quests, and the phasing tech that has been barely touched on in a few quests on live is being heavily implemented. Fewer quests to complete == less XP available for leveling. We can still do tasks, but not very many people have reached the cap yet.
8) You guys really will enjoy Rohan. 5 words: Ranged Auto Attack When Mounted!
9) The developers have stated that they want us to be able to reach level cap WITHOUT having to grind any repeatable content...i.e., by doing quests. We may need to DO some of the repeatable content, but we shouldn't have to GRIND it.
Last edited by PerfectApproach; Aug 23 2012 at 12:55 PM.
While you burn at the stake, I dance with the flames. I take what you love and leave you in tears. I am relentless, unpredictable, and waiting for your last breath.
3) It is also possible that this gear will not be released with RoR, and may in fact be the instance gear that will be released when the instances are released. If this is the case, then the gear is definitely going to be different.
What makes you think this? The sets are on barter NPC's in Hytbold (the town you rebuild), are purchased using landscape quest coins (similar to Great River coins) and are gated behind those repeatable Hytbold rebuilding quests. I don't think they'd have done all of that if these teal sets are really the instance gear for instances that don't exist yet.
The power return on the rock while healing traited is substantial: it amounts to 640 ICPR. That's enough to counter the giant power drain from Fates Entwined and is like a 50% (at least) ICPR boost to hunters and burgs and other classes with low ICPR.
What makes you think this? The sets are on barter NPC's in Hytbold (the town you rebuild), are purchased using landscape quest coins (similar to Great River coins) and are gated behind those repeatable Hytbold rebuilding quests. I don't think they'd have done all of that if these teal sets are really the instance gear for instances that don't exist yet.
Just speculating. In retrospect, RoI released with 1 teal set, and then another teal set came out with Tower of Orthanc later, so this armor might get released. In the past though, landmasses have been added without adding a teal set (Enedwaith comes to mine), and then later, the raid was added (OD) and the teal armor that goes with it. Am I wrong on that? IIRC, I wore skirmish barter armor (Annuminas set) until the OD set came out. So it's a possibility.
Originally Posted by Gylve
The power return on the rock while healing traited is substantial: it amounts to 640 ICPR. That's enough to counter the giant power drain from Fates Entwined and is like a 50% (at least) ICPR boost to hunters and burgs and other classes with low ICPR.
It IS substantial, but not really for an RK. RK's can DEFINITELY live without it. But it's a really nice buff for other classes that don't stack Will. It will also, interestingly enough, help Minstrels when healing in raids. This is going to make RK/Mini combo's in raids more effective than they currently are.
I guess the reason I said it was a "meh" upgrade is because I was hoping for more "wow" effect. As it is, Lightning got a threat reduction skill (which I hate, but other Lightning RK's should like), healing got a power recovery buff "meh" and the Distracting Flame threat reduction was increased. I would consider the latter more of a bug-fix than an "improvement." We got a morale bubble with Armor of XXX... good idea in theory, but as it stands right now, a single hit from a landscape mob completely removes it. Effectively, it's an "absorbs 1 hit" skill. Again, meh. Buff that bubble up, and we'll talk. The Flurry change is really a lateral move. Twelve of one and half-dozen of the other. And the Linnod of Peace, well, I never slot that anyway. And when healing, I rarely drew any threat. Again, meh.
So I wasn't "wow'd" with the new RK changes. Mounted combat is a different story, but because it's not as far along as the devs would like, it's pretty rough. Combat Mounts have their own power bar (for reasons unknown), and mounted skills drain this power quickly. While at full gallop on a mount, this power does not regenerate. You have to slow down/stop to regen power, or use a power recovery skill... and the mount intended for DPS, the light mount, does not have a power recovery skill. However, some of the themes of the RK are slowly making an appearance. Lightning/Cold/Fire differentiation is there. Whether you're in Rohhirim (for healing), Riddermark (Lightning/Cold) or Red Dawn (Fire) determines which DPS line you'll use. Independent of that, you can choose a heavy horse (for tanking), a medium horse (for supporting), or a light horse (for DPS/healing).
Yes, RK's can tank on a heavy horse. Yes, it's very weird.
So I'm starting to be wow'd by mounted combat. But standard unmounted combat? I'm less than wow'd.
Last edited by PerfectApproach; Aug 23 2012 at 04:42 PM.
While you burn at the stake, I dance with the flames. I take what you love and leave you in tears. I am relentless, unpredictable, and waiting for your last breath.
But the question is, are we gonna dps like champs, hunts or brgs?
I'm afraid the answer is no, hope I'm wrong.
Unfortunately, no, not un-mounted.
Remember that after RoR hits, the LOTRO world will be divided into places where there is mounted combat, and places where there is no mounted combat. The 2 sides operate COMPLETELY independently of each other.
That said, I don't think the DPS chasm between (fire) RK's and the other T1 DPS'ers is getting smaller, but I have no evidence to back it up. I haven't tested it thoroughly. Why? Because of mounted combat. Mounted combat uses a WHOLE NEW set of skills. When mounted, your unmounted skills, unmounted traits, and standard legendary weapons become irrelevant. I think at level 78 I had 6 mounted skills that were RK-specific, and 3 that were mount-skills. They were completely new, and we really didn't have enough time to play on Bullroarer to make any comparisons. We've had 3 beta sessions now, with a character wipe between all of them. Never once was I able to reach lvl 85. I never reached level 80! The problem is that BR has been down more than its been up.
Oh, BTW... remember all the griping we did about how we have too many skills, and how we wish that we had some way to set up a "saved" quickslot configuration that we could load/unload depending on what we are doing? We got it. We have 2 un-mounted quickslot configurations and 1 mounted configuration. When you mount your combat steed, it automatically switches to the mounted configuration. When you dismount (or are dismounted forcefully), your quickslots switch back to whichever un-mounted one you were using last. There's a tiny new up/down arrow UI element where you can manually switch between them all, if you want. They've been moving the UI around a little bit, so I'm not sure where it will actually end up. The arrows started out beside the Auto-Attack button/in-combat indicator, then they moved them over to the right by the inventory bag buttons. Not sure where they'll end up, but they worked well enough. It was buggy, so 2 of the bars wouldn't ever "switch out" when mounting a combat steed, so we had to deal with either 2 quickslots of grey skills while mounted, or disable those bars entirely. But the basic idea is there. Very cool.
Oh yeah... the mount gets its own legendary items too.
But, to answer your question, I don't think the divide between other T1 DPS'ers and (fire) RK's is getting smaller. Not enough work was done to the unmounted world to show any evidence of that. A lot of work was put into mounted combat and the new zone, so not much effort was put into anything pre-Rohan. Other classes did get more love though. What we got was about half of what a couple other classes got. Hunters specifically got some attention, although I can't say they didn't need it.
Edit: I had to insert (fire) in front of RK's because I actually think lightning RK's are doing pretty good, DPS-wise. It's fire RK's that are suffering.
Last edited by PerfectApproach; Aug 23 2012 at 10:29 PM.
While you burn at the stake, I dance with the flames. I take what you love and leave you in tears. I am relentless, unpredictable, and waiting for your last breath.
To answer the OPs question, DPS for RKs is down across the board in beta.
I have a fully decked out RK on live with first ages, the works. When in Moors gear I parse around 1350-1500 for lightning on the training dummy without using PI. On Bullroarer, with an 85 SA and the lvl 85 full Moors gear, I parse around 1250-1400. Note that I have not upgraded my jewelry on my RK yet though as that would require grinding skirms....
My tactical mastery went from 26k to about 33k, crit when from 6700 to about 8k, and my tooltips show a decrease in damage for every single skill. Basically we will, once we have the best jewelry from skraids, barely be doing the same dps that we do now.
Similar fashion to Fall to ******, the Rune of restoration gives a bonus depending on what attunement your are in. For example,
Frost gives +10s debuff duration,
Lightening gives +3% critical chance,
Fire gives +1 to bleeds.
Thoughts? Improvements?
I've developed a crude framework for my fantasy RK class, and these are 2 of the skills I invented:
--- Sigil of Intensity - 37.5 damage every 7 seconds for 63 seconds.
--- (Basically, it's a duplicate of the Sigil of Healing, only this Sigil does damage instead.)
--- Sigil of Restoration - recovers 37.5 morale every 7 seconds for 63 seconds.
--- (this is a close reproduction of the current skill "Rune of Restoration")
Only one of the Sigils can be active at any given time.
These are a couple of the class traits I developed to replace our current "Rune of Endurance":
--- Rune of Exhilaration: Sigil of Intensity reduces Tactical Mitigation, and damage done by Sigil of Intensity generates no threat.
--- Rune of Endurance: Sigil of Restoration increases Tactical Mitigation by 5%, and healing done by Sigil of Restoration generates no threat.
Basically, the idea was to provide a parity between the Fire DPS line and the healing line. So all Fire DoT skills fairly closely mimic all Healing HoT skills. Fire traits mimic Healing traits. I'm still working on the trait set bonuses, but they will also closely mimic each other (Fire to Healing).
BTW, on an unrelated note, I came up with 2 completely new class traits designed to buff the Chill of Winter skills. Dig these:
Stillness of the Snowy Dawn: For each tier of Writ of Cold, Essence of Winter silences the target for 3s.
Betrayal of the Frigid Tempest: Distracting Winds causes targets that are stealthed to become visible.
Last edited by PerfectApproach; Sep 06 2012 at 12:04 PM.
While you burn at the stake, I dance with the flames. I take what you love and leave you in tears. I am relentless, unpredictable, and waiting for your last breath.
Combat Mounts have their own power bar (for reasons unknown), and mounted skills drain this power quickly. While at full gallop on a mount, this power does not regenerate. You have to slow down/stop to regen power, or use a power recovery skill... and the mount intended for DPS, the light mount, does not have a power recovery skill. .
We do get mount power recovery skill called INVIGORATE for light steed but need to unlock it from Rohirim line iirc but the skill also works when we are in Red Dawn or Riddermark stance. I always use this skill during long mounted combat. Another skill (forgot the name) let us use any skill for zero power for several second when power is low.
Another skill (forgot the name) let us use any skill for zero power for several second when power is low.
I think it's "Spur On." It can only be used if you have less than 1/3rd power, and it completely drains any remaining power after the effect expires. It's a death-sentence for anyone involved in a long battle.
While you burn at the stake, I dance with the flames. I take what you love and leave you in tears. I am relentless, unpredictable, and waiting for your last breath.
I think it's "Spur On." It can only be used if you have less than 1/3rd power, and it completely drains any remaining power after the effect expires. It's a death-sentence for anyone involved in a long battle.
It's not Spur On it's Adrenaline Rush and it's hardly a death sentence in long battle if we use Invigorate right after mount power depleted. Invigorate only require our toon power not our mount power.
Mounted combat is a different story, but because it's not as far along as the devs would like, it's pretty rough. Combat Mounts have their own power bar (for reasons unknown), and mounted skills drain this power quickly. While at full gallop on a mount, this power does not regenerate. You have to slow down/stop to regen power, or use a power recovery skill... and the mount intended for DPS, the light mount, does not have a power recovery skill. However, some of the themes of the RK are slowly making an appearance. Lightning/Cold/Fire differentiation is there. Whether you're in Rohhirim (for healing), Riddermark (Lightning/Cold) or Red Dawn (Fire) determines which DPS line you'll use. Independent of that, you can choose a heavy horse (for tanking), a medium horse (for supporting), or a light horse (for DPS/healing).
I highlighted the part which I am replying to. The reason: I am not sure if it is so simple.
I tried to make the DPS build for all 3 Steeds and it looks like I do the most damage (and have the best power efficiency) on a Heavy steed in the Riddermark discipline. The +25% crit chance toggle (a heavy steed trait) allows me to crit just as much as on a light steed, while the increased crit multiplier (again a heavy steed trait) makes these crits more efficient. The heavy steeds have higher icpr and defences which also helps.
It is not easy to tell now which build will be popular in future among players. Based on the fact that the majority of the RK community favours lightning traits over fire, I would guess the Riddermark discipline may become more popular compared to the Red Dawn. And the Light Steed crit bonus ('Wrath' trait) is not applicable to the Riddermark.
P.S. Red Dawn discipline on a medium steed improves the fire DoTs a lot while a corresponding bridle legacy will increase the number of the DoT pulses... so this option is also an interesting one.
Champs get 2 great sets, while our sets are mediocre at best, Champs get +5% Crit on Wild Attack and a damage increase on Merciful Strike
And I´m worried they´ll screw up the Tactical Damage Rating again, what can the betatesters say about that?
And please, everyone who´s in the Beta, tell them to give us another 3-set bonus on the Lightning Set, something that helps us with damage, not -power cost, we don´t have power problems at all
The Lightning three piece set bonus is useless, the five piece set bonus isn't much better, especially when compared to the Orthanc set bonus we currently have. If they keep these set bonuses, I think both Lightning and Fire Runekeepers would continue using the Orthanc set at level 85. Even healing Runekeepers will likely stick with the Orthanc set in favor of the fellowship wide damage boost.
They can toss any dps set bonuses involving power management out the door, dpsing Runekeepers have no use for that whatsoever. They should make the Orthanc Lightning set bonus a passive, the traits should always have been a 25% chance to proc the buff. I'd like to see a set bonus more like -10s cd on Epic Conclusion, or the Charged Runes buff grants a +5% dev chance buff in addition to its 10% crit chance. A set bonus letting Perfect Imagery reset the cooldown on all Lightning skills would be cool too (have to be disabled in the moors).
As it stands we are barely able to hold our own dpsing in raids alongside of Hunters, Champions, and Burglars. If we get those set bonuses, we'll be screwed dps wise come RoR (and i'm a Lightning Runekeeper, you poor Fire Runekeepers are pretty much screwed regardless).
Over a course of about 5 minutes, you will have used an additional 6 SWs than without the set bonus from Hytbold.
Most effectively you would use it instead of SS or CA, so that is a difference of 4,6k-2k=2,6k per extra SW. That is a total of 15,6k over 5 minutes (300s). About 15.600dmg / 300s = 52dps. (if both attacks critically hit)
In perspective without the extra buff proc.:
You will need to use 6,67 CA's over 15s to have a statistical 100% chance of a permanent buff from CA. Same goes for SS. That means you will have to use CA and SS 13,3 times in 15s to keep both buffs active permanently. Where as with the current set, you would only need to use CA and SS 8 times. That just about fits the normal rotation, so you would be unlucky at the moment not to have both active permanently 15s into any given fight.
In conclusion:
This set bonus has no place what so ever on a PvE set, it does in PvP. The fact Turbine or Developers cannot seem to tell the difference show their complete lack of competence in their line of work. Unless your intention is to actually nerf us to a point where hunters beat us by a mile in any direction. On the healing side you stole one of our strongest group buffs. This would most likely mean minstrels yet again will be the preferred class.
So what exactly is it Turbine thinks us RKs should be doing in future raids?
It certainly will not be healing or damage, unless someone in Turbine's office wakes up. Maybe that developer with the adequate name of ZombieColumbus considering the amount of feedback, inconclusive and derivative work he has done since RoI. Actually I think I am insulting Zombies by saying so.
Maybe that developer with the adequate name of ZombieColumbus considering the amount of feedback, inconclusive and derivative work he has done since RoI. Actually I think I am insulting Zombies by saying so.
Extremely unhappy RK.
Agreed, it has been over 6 months since he posted anything. I'm starting to think he is no longer the RK devloper and we are a class on auto-pilot.
Well, considering the RK dev diary was the only one that hasn't been signed up by anyone at all (Hunter's was - and it was Graalx, not ZC), make your own conclusions.
Just hope we didn't end up in a place guardians have got used to be for a really long time - "a good place"...
So what is the purpose of RK then? It certainly doesn't deserve the premium class title.Wardens are very op and truly a premium class.But RK isn't.Not the best dps(nerfed),low survivalability and I prefer my mini for healing because mini can buff the group like a cappy.Dps wise right now ligtning rk is amazing.But 1300-1400 dps at lvl 85? What the heck...
Then why is it that warden is stronger than normal classes at all times and RK isn't? Wardens are indestructable.Can survive much better than guards.
Meh its give and take. Minstrel or Warden ... i'd go with minstrel for that all around awesomeness. Warden really only shines in a few select cases where it holds a precarious balance between selfheals and offense no other class can archive, minstrel is owning in the other 99% of cases + PvMP.
There is also the embarassing fact that Emerald of the Abyssal Depths/Adamant Gems of Dreams will still be the best gems at level 85 for dpsing Runekeepers.
Relics that were used at level 60 and 65 will still be the best at level 85. We really should see slightly more progression then that, it was pathetic enough when those relics were still best at level 75, but 85? really?
Meh its give and take. Minstrel or Warden ... i'd go with minstrel for that all around awesomeness. Warden really only shines in a few select cases where it holds a precarious balance between selfheals and offense no other class can archive, minstrel is owning in the other 99% of cases + PvMP.
It is "amazing" to see all of the new minstrels that started PvP'ing when RoI came out. Flavor of the Expansion for the LuLz.
If you thought "premium class" meant that that class would be stronger than "normal" classes at all times, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you...
If I was running a video game business where I gave the game away for free, but asked players to pay for special "things," I would think these things would be better than the stuff you get for free. I believe that RK's and Wardens SHOULD be slightly better than the other classes, at the cost of being much more difficult to play. What's the benefit of purchasing a RK if I can out-DPS an RK with a (free) hunter, and outheal an RK with a (free) minstrel?
I would say that Wardens DO perform like a "premium" class. OTOH, the gambit system is fairly complex and doesn't lend itself to button-mashing. Incredible survivability, and can pull off unbelievable feats of impossibility? Sounds premium to me.
RK's? Well... eh... doesn't feel very premium to me. Hasn't in a LONG time. If I wasn't a subscriber, I wouldn't purchase a RK. Not worth it.
While you burn at the stake, I dance with the flames. I take what you love and leave you in tears. I am relentless, unpredictable, and waiting for your last breath.
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