Hello everyone. With the lifting of the NDA I'll share with you some things I've seen about the hunter.
The PvE armor sets "end-game" are actually for once decent. I was surprised. The bonuses are thoughtful and the full set 5 bonuses are for ONCE actually good. Things like swift bow cool-down and -% all inductions.
The moors sets are very lacking in upgrading stats however the 15% ignore mits on pen-shot and +1 focus every 4 seconds in precision is a very good set. As Rohan has release has been pushed back I'm expecting small stat increases on these sets as you only gain 85 agility from 75-85 on the armor.
New hunter skills! A) Cry of the hunter: +10% run speed -50% run speed on targets 5 second daze on targets 1500+ morale bubble that lasts 30 seconds, while bubble is active inductions cannot be interrupted. Max targets 6. While the bubble isn't massive the small bonus heal, inductive help and cc for multiple targets has helped my survivability alot! This is a good step in the right direction. B) New split shot. Great change, lots of extra focus, and yes! They actually increased the radius of attack from 2m to 5+m so it can hit more targets. C) Improved hunters art. While the skill does no damage anymore its instant and requires virtually 0 focus. It's fast enough that you can use it between skills! Useful.
Overall I was impressed the the skill changes. That is the first time I can say that in an expansion!
DPS increased? One of the reasons they are setting the release date of Rohan back is that at level 85 with a second age and no crystals you do about 2.5% more DPS then a 75 first age with crystals (at 75). Also the DPS increase when the weapons dps is un=ranked to max is only about an additional 2.5%. Thus at this time I won't be giving any examples of big crits as this is still under construction.
Ettenmoors LI's. They look super cool! They cost 7500 comms. You can get a bow, or a melee weapons, I didn't see a cross-bow? The hunter ring is about 83 agility 500 finesse+ 500+ mastery 400 morale and 83 vitality with other bonuses. *The offhand has not been updated to 85 Sorry. Rank 15 cloak still only has 120 agility but has a ridiculous amount of morale, I'm still disappointed its half the finesse of Draigoch cloak though.
Outpost damage feedback - I've gotten up to nearly 50,000 mastery and let me say I hit like a truck. I will give more specific numbers later, all I can say is that if you control alot of outposts you feel like god-mode.
Renown gain - As a hunter tagging stuff is very easy, earning commendations and renown will flow like river in a water, I'm disappointed in this but I'm telling you the way it is. You can cap out comms in a few hours easily...
Moors jewelry has not been updated. Hopefully this will change by October or by the end of the year!
NEW SETTINGS! Keeping this on a positive note I'm pleased to announce some good settings. A) Setting - 7.5% devastate magnitude, 147 icpr and 646 mastery B) Gem 37 vitality 646 mastery icmmr/icpr C) Rune, this is the most exciting one! -2.5% attack durations 646 mastery and 35 agility.
Induction setbacks for all classes are after 2 setbacks the skill will be immune. While this makes you still need to trait resolute
aim for the moors when needful haste is down it will help you get skills off! (General game-play change)
Jewelry? Unfortunately I can't post anything about this yet as there is no instance jewelry, the skirmish ones are decent but not the best and I can't auto craft. What I saw from the non-crafted was increase in DPS but most importantly a ton of morale on each item. That is good at least.
You can now use blindside on the move! This is very helpful!
Agile heal improved! The skill is actually worth using, amazing right.. Although it's not a life-saver it has been vastly improved to nearly 300 morale initially and another 300 morale every 4 seconds for a total of 1500 morale every 20 seconds. Also keep in mind that it crits alot. It was healing me as a man for 311-466 per tick. If I had a captain or any different relics your looking at potentially 400-650 honestly. This is a decent change! About 2,000 morale every 20 seconds.
Press onward has not been scaled yet nor has racial skills Hopefully this will change.
As always I'm sure there are things still not fixed about our class. I did alot of 1v1's in the moors and creeps are insane. However RoR is still under construction and I will update you with any major changes. Overall I am happy with the changes to hunter this update. If you have any questions fire away.
Last edited by YesMaam; Aug 22 2012 at 12:45 PM.
Yelk ~ DieHard ~ The Warlord - Shock and Awe. You will fear me.
I am not impressed with the ToO gear. From the stats that ive seen and the current gear I have been using (impossible shot) there isnt much of a diff. There will be better gear coming with the expansion and I feel the ToO gear is a waste of Meds and Seals.
yelk, i have been in a few raids with you and play in the moors often... can you go on about moors play a bit more? do the campfires help at all for the hunter? expound some?
I am not impressed with the ToO gear. From the stats that ive seen and the current gear I have been using (impossible shot) there isnt much of a diff. There will be better gear coming with the expansion and I feel the ToO gear is a waste of Meds and Seals.
There was a huge difference for me going from Impossible Shot to Faron but I trait blue and use Improved Fleetness. I like fast induction speeds and the ability to be mobile. Faron makes regenerating focus a lot easier to allow for spamming of Penetrating Shot.
At this point in time if you haven't already gotten Faron and don't have many marks/medallions/seals accumulated then it may not be worth getting it. But those medallions/marks/seals aren't a factor in the new armor from Hytbold in the expansion.
I have the Faron Helm but thats it. I can get the other gear if I wanted too but im just seeing a valid reason why. I usually trait blue and every now and then all red. My mobility seems fine and ive never had much of an issue with keeping my focus up but rather i have issue keeping my power up.
yelk it's awesome to have u in beta and avaible for feedback!
atm i would like to have some more numbers, starting with the infamous dps on lvl 85 sa how much is full ranked dps legacy?
can u also post numbers about morale of the various creep classes?
creep health ranged from 20-32k. Most high rank WL's you will see around the 29-30k mark. Most creeps you will see around 22k. The DPS with no crystals in currently 158 dps. Keep in mind this is still under construction and that's without crystals, the crystals will change it a lot, unfortunately I haven't been able to access them yet.
Creep health has gone up a huge amount. I will say that all creeps have gained massive buffs this update, I've been in most every update to date and this one is the strongest by far.
Last edited by YesMaam; Aug 22 2012 at 02:41 PM.
Yelk ~ DieHard ~ The Warlord - Shock and Awe. You will fear me.
what is hunter moraleShould have no problems getting 10k solo self buffed while staying top DPS.
has dps scaled enough to allow us to continue to be top-shot-ish dps?Still too early to answer this. However in terms of outputing alot of DPS via burnhot/focus buff we are still in a very good place yes.
have you attempted 1-shoting yourself on a weaver Lol, not yet, but I'm sure if your not paying attention you can come close to it. Honestly I for-see a nerf hammer coming to the skill after it goes live. Take for example if your a hunter and he puts his reflect up you may as well just say: "I surrender" cause what the hell can you do but watch him finish you off. Honestly though there are workarounds of this. Focus on pots, agile heal and press onward, when reflect is active take out his pet and focus on CC on him, keeping yourself clear of debuffs.
Later on September when things are more final I can get a better idea of this. (Answers in yellow).
Last edited by YesMaam; Aug 22 2012 at 03:04 PM.
Yelk ~ DieHard ~ The Warlord - Shock and Awe. You will fear me.
Later on September when things are more final I can get a better idea of this. (Answers in yellow).
1: 10k? health? thats... ummm... 3k more health (facepalm)
well i dont know if you have delved into the creep dps scalings but i have heard of creeps dps getting buffed a lot..... what on earth are we going to do when wargs smack us for 2k claws
2: its good to know with red line stuff i can still do dps... i think im going to trait AOE rain-of-death and sit in a keep with healers this x pac (is that what's happening in beta?)
3: i doubt your work-arounds will work too well im seeing 24k weavers having this "cant touch this" MT-like skill (even if its nerfed to 30% refelct it will still hurt) along with pet heals (smart weavers will build up venom before poping the reflect, having lost some health in that time, then pop it, eat pet before hunter kills it, debuff daylights out of hunter, drink deep, etc) will spell out "LOSE" in big letters...
please if you could ... find a spider, have them untrait any crit def / physical def corruptions... and try to 1 shot yourslef... please post screenie, it will be immortalized
The DPS with no crystals in currently 158 dps. Keep in mind this is still under construction and that's without crystals, the crystals will change it a lot, unfortunately I haven't been able to access them yet.
the jump from lvl 65 sa to lvl 75 sa was around 43 dps points, the jump to lvl 85 would be only 20 points (all of this not counting crystals), a really weak increase
the jump from lvl 65 sa to lvl 75 sa was around 43 dps points, the jump to lvl 85 would be only 20 points (all of this not counting crystals), a really weak increase
However, the jump from 65 to 75 moralewise was about less than 0. This is mostly because they just implemented the no caps on stats rule and people built for 2k+ agility instead of 10k+ morale (which can also be done atm but not without the loss of tons of dps). It sounds like, while its not a huge amount of morale, a 3k increase will be OK i guess. Also like Yelk said, I bet that they will end up increasing freep dps by more than it looks in beta eventually with crystals and such, maybe with some new instances and gear, maybe just an overall stat increase.
To Yelk, glad to have a top tier hunter's inside opinion on this stuff. Very interesting to read what they are going to be fixing with the hunter, and now I know why you werent so down about it because it sounds like it will still be playable. Thanks for your take on it, but its not enough to make me pre order the expansion . Maybe after a few months in I will buy it and start playing LOTRO again casually.
Induction setbacks for all classes are after 2 setbacks the skill will be immune. While this makes you still need to trait resolute
aim for the moors when needful haste is down it will help you get skills off! (General game-play change)
Okay, very major!!!
Red line especially will feel the benefit of this massivlly in real world situations. By far it's biggest weakness is induction setbacks. Depending on how it works out it might even slightly help Red's power consumption since whilst HS is clerly meant to be a key part of red DPS whilst also being very power efficent for what it brings, but induction knockback often makes it infiriour. They still need to sort out merciful shot, but it's a big step forward IMHO.
Induction is still vulnerable to interruptions. And once it's used, your new induction has to suffer through the same number of setbacks before getting immunity.
Last edited by Ferthcott; Aug 22 2012 at 07:41 PM.
Good to see you in beta Yelk, and yep, 4r/3b ftw. Anyway, two questions really. One, can you give us full details on the end game sets for hunters? I'm particuarlly interested in the psudeo yellow set, but I'd like to see the full bonuses on all of them. Secondly, how well does the distracting shot threat down work? Is it actually enough to suffer a 3 minute cooldown?
The thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty forever beyond its reach.” - J.R.R. Tolkien
Induction is still vulnerable to interruptions. And once it's used, your new induction has to suffer through the same number of setbacks before getting immunity.
Ehmm. Duh.
Point is it's setback, not interuppts thats tended to really hurt red traits and HS especially, (in my experiance), Turning ISB into a 4+ second induction and HS into a 6+ in many situatuions destroys those skills.
Obviouslly PvP is diffrent. I was talking PVE though .
1: 10k? health? thats... ummm... 3k more health (facepalm)
well i dont know if you have delved into the creep dps scalings but i have heard of creeps dps getting buffed a lot..... what on earth are we going to do when wargs smack us for 2k claws
2: its good to know with red line stuff i can still do dps... i think im going to trait AOE rain-of-death and sit in a keep with healers this x pac (is that what's happening in beta?)
3: i doubt your work-arounds will work too well im seeing 24k weavers having this "cant touch this" MT-like skill (even if its nerfed to 30% refelct it will still hurt) along with pet heals (smart weavers will build up venom before poping the reflect, having lost some health in that time, then pop it, eat pet before hunter kills it, debuff daylights out of hunter, drink deep, etc) will spell out "LOSE" in big letters...
please if you could ... find a spider, have them untrait any crit def / physical def corruptions... and try to 1 shot yourslef... please post screenie, it will be immortalized
1. Thats approximately 50% more health for the hunter. Wargs by that logic are also getting a 50% increase. I think most classes are, but I don't know about all of that yet.
2. Beta is in no way relevant to what live will be like (rank 15 creeps versus fresh 85's). It may be creeps camping things for awhile, but freeps will be back out doing the same old same old after the first few months.
3. If you were to incessantly complain about the 100% reflect, I would have no problem with that at all.
I may have a screenshot of my 75 hunter hitting himself for 12k. I'll try and dig it up, if not doing it again wont be hard by any stretch.
Between new necklace, offhand and virtue increases I have roughly 1k more morale in my pve dps build than I had before, with the rest of my gear matching that on live.
That aside, I would add 1 more thing which is perhaps useful: After some prodding, Graal promised to make sure the Distracting Shot threat reduction would be a percentage reduction as well as a 'large flat rating' reduction. I am guessing this means we are getting a flat rate reduction unless the percentage reduction would be greater, but this was left unspecified, so I might be wrong about the exact implications.
Point is it's setback, not interuppts thats tended to really hurt red traits and HS especially, (in my experiance), Turning ISB into a 4+ second induction and HS into a 6+ in many situatuions destroys those skills.
Obviouslly PvP is diffrent. I was talking PVE though .
Ah lol, understood, I had knee-jerk reaction seeing it was about Heartseeker and proceeded to add some misery XD
And you are correct, knowing your ISB *will* go off soon no matter what means a LOT in PvE especially when deciding if it is finally time to get the hell away; and there are some great locations where - if they are not nerfed for no reason >.< - you have those wonderful moments when mobs ambush in tight spaces and the whole thing turns into some survival zombie horror (yes, dead and creepy tomb designs are involved )
Last edited by Ferthcott; Aug 23 2012 at 07:00 AM.
1. Thats approximately 50% more health for the hunter. Wargs by that logic are also getting a 50% increase. I think most classes are, but I don't know about all of that yet.
In the Monster Play Forum a R9 posted a screenshot of his Claws tooltip damage going up by ~16%, seems like Wargs and BAs get ~20% damage increase and the rest of the Creeps more like ~50%
In the Monster Play Forum a R9 posted a screenshot of his Claws tooltip damage going up by ~16%, seems like Wargs and BAs get ~20% damage increase and the rest of the Creeps more like ~50%
Perhaps you are confusing the term 'scale' with the term 'increase'?
While all classes have been scaled, only some are being increased.
I know my wording on the previous post did not help with that.
The new PvE sets I will post full detail set bonuses when Bullroar goes active again next week. From what I can recall bowmaster = 3 sec swiftbow cd and 5% to crit multiplier for bow skills. Huntsmen = blood arrow cd and -5% bow inductions. I do not recall the trapper. There are agility and finesse bonuses as well. To make sure this information is accurate and complete I'll wait though until next week.
The crafted jewelery will give a lot of morale.
It seems that they have taken the same skirmish loot system and upgraded every item, possibly under the same name. While this will bring groans to most I forsee only the usage of 1-2 items to get from skirms per class and then crafted depending on your build. Keep in mind with new instances coming out and new jewelery before the end of the year don't grind too hard!
Yelk ~ DieHard ~ The Warlord - Shock and Awe. You will fear me.
1. Thats approximately 50% more health for the hunter. Wargs by that logic are also getting a 50% increase. I think most classes are, but I don't know about all of that yet.
2. Beta is in no way relevant to what live will be like (rank 15 creeps versus fresh 85's). It may be creeps camping things for awhile, but freeps will be back out doing the same old same old after the first few months.
3. If you were to incessantly complain about the 100% reflect, I would have no problem with that at all.
I may have a screenshot of my 75 hunter hitting himself for 12k. I'll try and dig it up, if not doing it again wont be hard by any stretch.
- Unless they change mitigation's on spiders I don't foresee anyone 1 shotting themselves unless they dev a from out of combat traited burn hot HS and your damage stacking build.
- Turbine has stated they are adressing the duration of the spider toxic carapace so we dont have to wait so long to attack.
- With the OP/trait changes/base value changes and class changes many creeps have gone up 50% damage, some even more.
Scenario Black Arrow: R10. 3 Outpost buffs = 10,200 mastery. Slotted 1 health for power 10% and 5 masteries = 6,000 mastery. Keenyee - Fixed to 25% damage from whatever it was before. WL banners now give 10% and 10% instead of 3% and less.
All of the above combined with the level 75-85 DPS base gap is at the very LEAST 50% damage increase for BA's. Almost all other classes have gotten similar increases. Reavers and wargs new rotational deadly skills.
At r9 my BA live VT is about 2800 base damage. On bullroar at R15 I was able to get it to 5000 damage. So R10 your still looking at 4500 base damage tooltips.
Last edited by YesMaam; Aug 24 2012 at 11:26 AM.
Yelk ~ DieHard ~ The Warlord - Shock and Awe. You will fear me.
Scenario Black Arrow: R10. 3 Outpost buffs = 10,200 mastery. Slotted 1 health for power 10% and 5 masteries = 6,000 mastery. Keenyee - Fixed to 25% damage from whatever it was before. WL banners now give 10% and 10% instead of 3% and less.
All of the above combined with the level 75-85 DPS base gap is at the very LEAST 50% damage increase for BA's. Almost all other classes have gotten similar increases. Reavers and wargs new rotational deadly skills.
At r9 my BA live VT is about 2800 base damage. On bullroar at R15 I was able to get it to 5000 damage. So R10 your still looking at 4500 base damage tooltips.
It's best not seperate Outpost buffs from scaling discussion; they swing things wildly... and it's going to cause a whole new class of forum post stupidity. Every complaint about hunter damage from creeps going forward is going to include 3-4 outpost buffs on top of the assumed 100% dev crit chance. No need to further this along by engaging it it here!
Hell, I can dev crit drink deep for 6k with 4 outpost buffs.
We need to keep damage scaling discussion to a baseline of 0 outpost buffs. I really think they should have a diminished effect on holding each additional outpost, the bonus for all 4 is kind of crazy right now.
"Spiders CC is unbearable... it's just as bad as loremasters" ~ Brodster
It's best not seperate Outpost buffs from scaling discussion; they swing things wildly... and it's going to cause a whole new class of forum post stupidity. Every complaint about hunter damage from creeps going forward is going to include 3-4 outpost buffs on top of the assumed 100% dev crit chance. No need to further this along by engaging it it here!
Hell, I can dev crit drink deep for 6k with 4 outpost buffs.
We need to keep damage scaling discussion to a baseline of 0 outpost buffs. I really think they should have a diminished effect on holding each additional outpost, the bonus for all 4 is kind of crazy right now.
First there will always be at least 1-2 OPs taken per side. Some are just close enough its a necessity to take some. It is very fair to say that if one side is completely dominant they will control 3-4 on a slow day for one side. I think it is absolutely needed to factor it in for both sides having at least 2-3 at all times. I fail to see your logic in saying lets not talk about something that is going to happen. Fact is, creeps ARE going to have 2-3 outposts alot of the time, on my server easily all 5 until the afternoon. I'm discussing the creep damage boost they will have and that freep morale hasn't gone up much.
Outposts or not. The fix to the stance, corruption enhancements changes to WL's, level progression, class changes and such still amount to a 50% increase.
Changes are still being made to LI's so we will see what happens.
Last edited by YesMaam; Aug 24 2012 at 12:35 PM.
Yelk ~ DieHard ~ The Warlord - Shock and Awe. You will fear me.
First there will always be at least 1-2 OPs taken per side. Some are just close enough its a necessity to take some. It is very fair to say that if one side is completely dominant they will control 3-4 on a slow day for one side. I think it is absolutely needed to factor it in for both sides having at least 2-3 at all times. I fail to see your logic in saying lets not talk about something that is going to happen. Fact is, creeps ARE going to have 2-3 outposts alot of the time, on my server easily all 5 until the afternoon. I'm discussing the creep damage boost they will have and that freep morale hasn't gone up much.
Outposts or not. The fix to the stance, corruption enhancements changes to WL's, level progression, class changes and such still amount to a 50% increase.
Changes are still being made to LI's so we will see what happens.
My logic is that these buffs are transitory, HIGHLY dependent on current population/disposition on your server at a specific point in time. They should therefore be included in the discussion in that fashion. To lump them in with the general scaling from level cap increase the way you did in your post AND listing it for a reason to be in favor of general freep damage increases (through higher LI scaling) is just as wrong headed as it would be for me to point out how much damage potential a hunter has at 3-4 outpost buffs and using that to argue for decreasing overall freep damage output.
I assure you that DPS increase for BAs is much lower than you state. I know because of parses:
BA = 435 DPS
Reaver = 601 DPS
Warg = 656 DPS
These parses were performed with a single outpost buff. BA damage only scaled about 20%, your 50% number is completely made-up horse manure. Ill again say, these parses INCLUDED 1 outpost buff.
It's going to be VERY difficult to keep conditional buffs like the outposts out of class balance discussion. Hunters, who are clearly in need of fixes to survivability/utility in the moors are going to face head-winds from piles and piles of posts complaining about spike damage output from situational stuff like consumables/dev-crits ON TOP of outpost buffs (hint: hunters with 4 outposts are practically book 6 moria when opening from stealth). Your are doing yourself no favors in stating damage increases this way here.
"Spiders CC is unbearable... it's just as bad as loremasters" ~ Brodster
Aggro skills Yelk any give on the on level restriction.. really the skill is great with the bpe but it will still miss like our HS from time to time on bosses and that can have some very bad results for the raid if the hunter is counting on the the aggro drop.
Also how much is the quick shot endurance reduction anyone play with that? Is it a flat number, a percentage. Thanks to all those looking out for the hunters who are not in there.
Tydalmir
Vyxe said, "Cheer up it could be worse out here tonight." So we all cheered up, and wouldn't you know it.... things got worse!
Aggro skills Yelk any give on the on level restriction.. really the skill is great with the bpe but it will still miss like our HS from time to time on bosses and that can have some very bad results for the raid if the hunter is counting on the the aggro drop.
Also how much is the quick shot endurance reduction anyone play with that? Is it a flat number, a percentage. Thanks to all those looking out for the hunters who are not in there.
Tydalmir
Haven't done any PvE testing yet.
Yelk ~ DieHard ~ The Warlord - Shock and Awe. You will fear me.
As the tests have shown they provide fixed value of detaunt, meaning with more dps in RoR they would be even less usefull then they currently are.
It's funny I was about to rebuke you for even talking about threat legacies by saying hey hunter is a DPS class but all your points into DPS legacies but the truth is especially the way the game is going where only a guardian can ever have agro or things go to hell to be able to hit all your buttons and parse higher then withstanding damage and not pull agro...Paints another picture. Although with a good guard I've never, ever had agro issues so... Still I will look to see if they have tweaked them at all. If they actually worked in a moderate fashion i can see them being useful.
Yelk ~ DieHard ~ The Warlord - Shock and Awe. You will fear me.
It's funny I was about to rebuke you for even talking about threat legacies by saying hey hunter is a DPS class but all your points into DPS legacies but the truth is especially the way the game is going where only a guardian can ever have agro or things go to hell to be able to hit all your buttons and parse higher then withstanding damage and not pull agro...Paints another picture. Although with a good guard I've never, ever had agro issues so... Still I will look to see if they have tweaked them at all. If they actually worked in a moderate fashion i can see them being useful.
That was my point. These legacies are pretty much useless now, and if they are not changed in RoR they will be even more useless.
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Sorry. Rank 15 cloak still only has 120 agility but has a ridiculous amount of morale, I'm still disappointed its half the finesse of Draigoch cloak though.
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Long live 4 red 3 blue. Anyways like you said, it's irrelevant for Rohan.
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