Thread: Question for freeps

hi there, i was wandering around in a little creep trio last night and we were chatting about some of the crazy numbers freeps put up so I wanted to ask those who play freep (especially anyone who has been out there a long time)

Do you think the general balance of power between freeps and creeps is:

1. Even
2. Favors freeps heavily
3. Favors freeps slightly
4. Favors creeps slightly
5. Favors creeps heavily

This is just a check to see what folks think. Please DO NOT use someone else's 1v1s as the sole basis for your answer but rather your overall experience (including your 1v1s if you have them) of where the moors are right now.

Right now, I see it as #2 generally speaking

Thanks and I'll be seeing you soon.

The only competition out there for freeps atm is if a TMR fellowship/half raid is about.
Other then that it's just if creeps have any numbers on or not.


I would say it definately favors freeps. Hell our kin group of 4 took on every creep on last night in a 10 minute interval and we got about 20 kills in a slow retreat from Lug rez, until someone who knew what they were doing started to have the greenies focus fire us. Was probably Coco.

Heals favors freeps.
DPS favors freeps.
Only thing creeps have going for them is an ingame store that they can buy all there skills from at R0.
Creep raid leaders are barely on, or get so disillusioned they quit after a few wipes because nowadays creep children generation don't listen.

Freep side is also nothing but ego's, and grudges, and trash talk. So it's pretty much just people playing to be spiteful and being hateful.
"I don't want to group with so and so he plays a creep."
"I don't want to play with so and so, he zergs."
"I don't want to play with so and so, all he does is run around the map and avoid fights."
"I don't want to group with so and so's, all they do is PvE."

Creep side has to group to compete so besides half of them not having voice enabled or raid assists on, and pretty much all I do is swear at greenies. It's alot more overall fun until it turns into zerg hour.

i will say #3

I would lean towards #2 on this server especially, it seems like there is always a much larger number of greenies than experienced players. When 12-15 greenies can't take down a group of 4 freeps especially when they are really close to their rez until some higher level creeps come in there is clearly a major imbalance.

When you get up in to the rank 10+ I feel like things balance out a little better but it is not an easy task to do and there aren't too many left on the server.

Freep side is also nothing but ego's, and grudges, and trash talk. So it's pretty much just people playing to be spiteful and being hateful.
"I don't want to group with so and so he plays a creep."
"I don't want to play with so and so, he zergs."
"I don't want to play with so and so, all he does is run around the map and avoid fights."
"I don't want to group with so and so's, all they do is PvE."

This unfortunately seems to be having a bigger and bigger impact on the state of pvp. There is so much contention on this server between different freep groups as well as between groups of creeps and freeps. There is nothing wrong with some competitive rivalries but it seems like there are people that really hate each other over a game.

I am going to have to go with option number 6. That is, that it depends on so many different things that it doesnt matter at this point.

Firstly, it depends on the player. I have know tons of really really good players make a trash class look like it is unbeatable.

Second, the class. In general, freeps have a larger number of OP classes than creeps to the point where it almost seems like the answer should obviously be #2 here. However, if you take a good look at certain freep classes, they really arent as great as they seem PvP wise. For example, if any of you have even taken 1 glance at the hunter forum you probly know what I mean. With RoR, the hunter will be unplayable in the moors except in raids. Now, this server is somewhat small, so for raids most ppl dont care what class you are. But, although hunters can hit pretty hard at 40m, they are HUGE targets and can be taken down way more easily than they should be for the amount of damage they do. Again, this server probly wont ever be able to see the issue, but its because there really arent enough high ranked creeps to show you.

Third, and most important. There will NEVER be balance in this game. It wont even be close. With Turbines lopsided developement and the obvious fact that the people making changes on the game dont actually play it will prevent PvP here from ever reaching even half of its full potential. But who cares, right? Its a PvE game after all... :/

Im sorry if you think I am a troll or just being stupid for saying all this, but seriously. If you are not seeing this than you probly need to stop living in lala land and take a look at how the game really is. If you dont want to, then thats fine. Its not hurting anyone else and I hope you can enjoy trying to play such a broken game. Meanwhile, we have an overpopulation issue with minis that needs to be dealt with..

~Kaz

Originally Posted by Cladariel

I would lean towards #2 on this server especially, it seems like there is always a much larger number of greenies than experienced players.

I agree with this^^. However when the higher ranked creeps come out to play.... it is more along the lines of #3. I don't do much 1v1, but I understand when the creeps don't want to. When I take the horse into the moors it almost feels like...what is that cheat from that old elder scrolls game...Ah!! Toggle God Mode
Now to be fair I have been out on multiple toons. And here is my personal experience with each...

Loremaster- highly unsuccessful. Squishy, not a whole lot of morale(under 6k but this is not my main so I am not going to put a whole lot of time into it)

RK-fairly successful. excellent DPS but melts like butter under attack(Also not my main so I don't put a lot of time into it)

Cappy- Fairly successful, more so in groups. Solo goes down hard and fast, but with a group holds up a little better. (Not my main, but I do spend a little time with it)

Minni- pretty successful. Holds up decently when I get jumped solo unless its a group. focus fire makes me melt like butter. Usually one of the first to get defeated in the groups I am in, but I try to get a few group heals off before I go.

Warleader-fairly unsuccessful, low ranks are ruff....

Blackarrow- Much more successful than WL, need to spend more time on both

When the creeps get me I have no hatred...**Winks at daarlin who probably has the most kills on me**

When the freeps get me I have no hatred...**glances at the burg who camps the rez knowing full well that there is no way I can win against him**


I will see you all out there...one way or the other

-E

I'd say either #2 or #3.

I agree with Jimi, when the raid leader(s) aren't on, it's usually to my assumption that the greenies aren't listening at all to what the raid leader is saying.

RK is more successful than a LM, due to being OP.

LM is more successful than a Hunter, due to having a LM heal-up skill.

Mini, is God-mode. Warden is God-mode. Champions are OP.

Burglars have little advantage over Wargs, due to their 3 escape skills(HIPS, Ready & Able, HIPS) plus Safe Fall, which Wargs don't have.

Gaurdians are just harder to beat nowadays I guess due to their mitigations.

Originally Posted by Viloxus

hi there, i was wandering around in a little creep trio last night and we were chatting about some of the crazy numbers freeps put up so I wanted to ask those who play freep (especially anyone who has been out there a long time)

Do you think the general balance of power between freeps and creeps is:

1. Even
2. Favors freeps heavily
3. Favors freeps slightly
4. Favors creeps slightly
5. Favors creeps heavily

This is just a check to see what folks think. Please DO NOT use someone else's 1v1s as the sole basis for your answer but rather your overall experience (including your 1v1s if you have them) of where the moors are right now.

Right now, I see it as #2 generally speaking

Thanks and I'll be seeing you soon.

2# For sure. Especially in this server, freeps here, outheal, outdps and outnumber creeps most of the time. You can only have fun if you have a balanced grp, solo here is simply not an option.

Great responses so far. The point of this thread is not to cry out for balance. I've played this since the very beginning as a freep and a creep. The pendulum swings back and forth. All PvP games are like that. This isn't the first time freeps were clearly (imho) on the stronger side, we can go back to MoM too.

Using last night as an example, I think one of the greatest discrepancies between the sides right now is burst damage. My BA was blown up solo by a lone hunter in about 5 or 6 seconds. That's almost 13K damage. We're not talking about a string of crits, dev crits and the hunter didn't burn hot either. I've had this happen a number of times in the last few weeks.

I don't know any creep class solo that can put out those numbers that quickly. Even then maaaaybe a really high-ranked reaver or warg might be able to crank out about 60% of that in the same time frame IF they could string together a bunch of dev crits. Not suggesting they should be able to because freeps would simply quit playing. Sure, focused fire can bring down a freep quickly IF they aren't getting heals. I think that's where a group like TMR or Drak's shines, but it requires organization and definitely a vent channel or similar to counter this.

Originally Posted by Viloxus

Using last night as an example, I think one of the greatest discrepancies between the sides right now is burst damage. My BA was blown up solo by a lone hunter in about 5 or 6 seconds. That's almost 13K damage. We're not talking about a string of crits, dev crits and the hunter didn't burn hot either. I've had this happen a number of times in the last few weeks.

Not sure what rank your BA is, but a high rank BA really shouldnt have a problem with most hunters on this server. Plus if you do have an issue just pop your I WIN button

Aaaaand with RoR BAs will be able to destroy hunters no matter what one on one... QQ

~Kaz

I think we need to look at a class by class basis as suggested by Easie.

3-freep classes that are ridiculi:

Mini (omg), Rk- EC for 4k then heal for 4 k? whaaa, Warden-Really at 10k self heal?

Creep class that is OP:
Warg. I have see rank 1 wargs with all store bought skills fight like a rank 8 or 9 puppy. That's just dumb, and spits in the face of wargies that actually earned their rank. (one tweaker warg has got like 200k inf in a month. Come on with that.)


Freep classes that are tough to play in the moors: LM and Hunter (always the first targets to die)

Creep class that is hard mode: reaver

ROR will shake things up a bit.

I agree Agent with what you are saying.

If you play a warg at R0 with store brought skills/traits etc... you aren't playing him correctly. This can be easier corrected, if the greenies can just roam the map and stay away from freeps who are in a fraid and quest for maps while gaining comms and ranks the easier way, the way it shall be.

Or even, try to find a craid to join, that would help me rank up faster and just using the skills that are acquired to them at Rank 0, I for one, had to start off like that.

Yeah my BA is middling at R6 and with only Aud 2 so that's it. I'm not QQing over dying, just making a point about burst damage. I don't want to spend comms on Aud right now since they're going to reduce the price and efficacy unless i hit cap.

EDIT: Funny thing is, even champs can outdamage me using their bow attack vs. my strong pull on a non-crit shot per non-crit shot basis. I realize their armor, mits, etc. have a lot to do with that but still, it's pretty funny.

Yeah, I'm too, even though I got another 7 more ranks of Audacity to get along with upcoming skills,traits,corruptions.

I'd say it's easily #2, though at times it feels like only #3. Those times are usually when there are less minnies and RKs around. They are the biggest source of the imbalance at this time imho. This is due to being able to do both better burst dps, 2 light classes that not only seem to mitigate/absorb creep damage better than med and heavy armor classes, but can outheal the dps on demand while still doing plenty of burst damage. Many freep autoattacks and spammable skills do more damage than creep main skills. Freeps don't seem to ever run into power issues the way some of the creep classes do in order to maintain their dps or heals or both. And I believe it is that way due to long raid requirments in freep PVE. I don't want that changed for normal mode, but turbine needs to utilize that moors monster play buff more and make things work a little different out in the moors.

It's really not hard to see how much more amazing the damage and healing is right now for freeps. Even turbine admits this and it was one of the if not THE first things they addressed in their PVMP dev notes for RoR. Hunters work a little closer to what minnies and RKs should be like. There's no way a medium armor class should feel so much squishier than 2 light armor classes. I always felt it was a fair tradeoff on the hunter that we were a little squishy becasue of how much damage we can pump out, both burst and sustained over time. But seeing minnies out tank guardians and medium class wardens take on piles of npcs and creeps like it's nothing in comparison to a guardian is a joke.

The single stat building has broken the PVMP part of the game. There was a time when freeps had to build for healing, or dps, or find a balance for both, esp for the moors. Now you just pad one stat and then throw in as much vit/morale in your gear and boom, instant star in healing and dps.

I also think that audacity should have been for creepside only. Why? Because creeps don't get gear, The trait setups are also very limiting on creepside. So IMHO I think Aud could have been used to help balance out the fact that there are no weapons, no LIs, no armor sets, no jewellery for creeps, and Aud would have been one way to help them balance that out and give them a bit of a grind to earn it at the same time. Freeps didn't need something else to have to grind out for in the moors. A pvp armor set based on rank was a nicer idea and with unique PVMP set bonuses, cool, but putting audacity into freepside I think only hurt the balance vs greenies and low rankers and casual creeps more.

Originally Posted by Viloxus

Yeah my BA is middling at R6 and with only Aud 2 so that's it. I'm not QQing over dying, just making a point about burst damage. I don't want to spend comms on Aud right now since they're going to reduce the price and efficacy unless i hit cap.

EDIT: Funny thing is, even champs can outdamage me using their bow attack vs. my strong pull on a non-crit shot per non-crit shot basis. I realize their armor, mits, etc. have a lot to do with that but still, it's pretty funny.

Nah, im not saying you are QQing. I feel ya actually, tried rolling a greenie BA on E about when Elda transfered there and it is a pain.

Also

"If you play a warg at R0 with store brought skills/traits etc... you aren't playing him correctly. This can be easier corrected, if the greenies can just roam the map and stay away from freeps who are in a fraid and quest for maps while gaining comms and ranks the easier way, the way it shall be.

Or even, try to find a craid to join, that would help me rank up faster and just using the skills that are acquired to them at Rank 0, I for one, had to start off like that."

Not enitrely sure what you mean here bytez, but its not that the warg isnt playing right. I will admit to buying skills on my warg simply because I have nothing else to do with my TP that I have from a lifetime account, and it has nothing to do with playing badly or wrongly. The only thing wrong about bought skills is that Turbine shouldnt have introduced them at all, nor should they have put audacity/comms in.

But hey, less crying about imbalance and moar GW2!! (yes, I know most of you think that ppl will be coming back. but I officially promise that I will not ever come back to PvP here unless Turbine stops spitting in the faces of soloers and 1v1ers)

lol

~Kaz

Originally Posted by Sauron2112

I'd say it's easily #2, though at times it feels like only #3. Those times are usually when there are less minnies and RKs around. They are the biggest source of the imbalance at this time imho. This is due to being able to do both better burst dps, 2 light classes that not only seem to mitigate/absorb creep damage better than med and heavy armor classes, but can outheal the dps on demand while still doing plenty of burst damage. Many freep autoattacks and spammable skills do more damage than creep main skills. Freeps don't seem to ever run into power issues the way some of the creep classes do in order to maintain their dps or heals or both. And I believe it is that way due to long raid requirments in freep PVE. I don't want that changed for normal mode, but turbine needs to utilize that moors monster play buff more and make things work a little different out in the moors.

It's really not hard to see how much more amazing the damage and healing is right now for freeps. Even turbine admits this and it was one of the if not THE first things they addressed in their PVMP dev notes for RoR. Hunters work a little closer to what minnies and RKs should be like. There's no way a medium armor class should feel so much squishier than 2 light armor classes. I always felt it was a fair tradeoff on the hunter that we were a little squishy becasue of how much damage we can pump out, both burst and sustained over time. But seeing minnies out tank guardians and medium class wardens take on piles of npcs and creeps like it's nothing in comparison to a guardian is a joke.

The single stat building has broken the PVMP part of the game. There was a time when freeps had to build for healing, or dps, or find a balance for both, esp for the moors. Now you just pad one stat and then throw in as much vit/morale in your gear and boom, instant star in healing and dps.

I also think that audacity should have been for creepside only. Why? Because creeps don't get gear, The trait setups are also very limiting on creepside. So IMHO I think Aud could have been used to help balance out the fact that there are no weapons, no LIs, no armor sets, no jewellery for creeps, and Aud would have been one way to help them balance that out and give them a bit of a grind to earn it at the same time. Freeps didn't need something else to have to grind out for in the moors. A pvp armor set based on rank was a nicer idea and with unique PVMP set bonuses, cool, but putting audacity into freepside I think only hurt the balance vs greenies and low rankers and casual creeps more.

+1. Who are you and what did you do with Morkel?

I don't heal (Morkel tells me I am stupid for that) out in the moors, I don't even know where the green buttons are. DPS wise the class is ridiculous, survivability for me, not so much.

#2 though, for sure. Hard to not feel guilty about supposed "good fights". Not speaking solo or 1v1, ref. Mel and Ever's posts, was total mayhem but at the same time we felt bad because really, 15 or so greenie creeps FINALLY got us after we killed god knows how many?

Yeah the pay-for-skills thing is strange indeed as it provides Turbine with every incentive to make ranking a greenie as painful as possible. I'm not saying that's what they're doing but everyone who has done it "the old fashioned way" can tell you it sucks being an R0 creep...period. It doesn't even get somewhat viable in a large group until at least R4.

I bought a few skills for my BA, why the hell not I say, I'm a lifer, I don't use the points for anything freepside because it's easy enough. Plus, you can't buy every single skill they have, only a few (either that or I'm still a noob in the Turbine store).

Morteth's right though, a greenie raid is going to get laid to waste by an organized group of freeps, even if it's only 6.

I don't think we should balance things around the R0 greenie creep vs freep experience but I do think some freeps are going to be in for quite a shock if - as Turbine claims they're doing - creeps are buffed to be closer to freeps.

Remember, please hug your local greenie creep the next time you see them. After that you can kill them...

<3 Viloxus. Glad to see youre still around brother.



~Ahrondir

Originally Posted by Blackheart-Fury

<3 Viloxus. Glad to see youre still around brother.



~Ahrondir

Always good to see the good old-timers sniffing around here too, bro!

Hope you are doing well, Irin =)

I would say freeps need to have more respect for greenie creeps I started a reaver and it is horriable at low rank now when i see greenies I try my best to give them a fair fight

AND PEOPLE SHOULD INVITE GREENIES ON CREEP SIDE

Playing creepside is an eye opener, when i only played my guard i never understood why the people say the freeps where OP, etc,etc.

But when i realize that to make a fair 1v1 i was forced to not use cooldowns or pots, and then realize that to make it more fun for both sides i should remove my armour...

well something was not working good and the balance was really broken... so i start playing creepside to see how it was.

____

First you start like a greenie that can be exploded in 2sec by any class.

There is always burgs that camp the rez, so like you dont have maps because you are a greenie you get killed over and over by the same guy till more creeps show up or you get smarter and take another road to try to join the main group just to be exploded again in 2 sec.

Basically you are forced to group in order to kill something, you need to save commendations for your skills and for the audacity, and then you can start to be "useful" like at rank 8 in a group.

In a server dominated by freeps almost all the day and with an elitist creepside is really hard to rank for a greenie and the few that try to play usually quit because they dont get invited to groups and the only thing they can do is feed the freeps.

___

On silverlode of course is the number 2 (Favors freeps heavily):

The most part of the people usually play ezmode minstrels, rk, shield traited wardens and glory champs and just make big raids to chase down a few greenies and then disapear when a good group of 8 come and wipe them 2 or 3 times the most part of the time in their own keep in his own npc even if the freeps have more.

____

There is no balance on creep and freep even the developers admit it..

I mean people complaining about wargs being OP?

The warg (at rank 9 and with p2win skills) is the only class that can be compared to any freep right now. (not a warden)

Name 1 creep that can resist a focus fire like a warden, a healing minstrel or rk or a glory bubble champ can do?

The answer is: 0

But like always happend with the people here i am just waisting my time.. have fun bunch of baddies...

Originally Posted by Blackheart-Fury

Hope you are doing well, Irin =)

I am bro, got a new job 2 weeks ago, still going through withdrawal of moving 5 hours away from all my buddies, but it's all good.

How have you been?

Still creeping a lot over there on that *other* server?

I have to agree with Morkel on some statements he made here. If Audacity was only given to creeps it would be a lot more balanced in the moors. So, I would say that the balance is a #2 until a creep hits rank 6 or higher and has Audacity maxed, then it turns to #3. The only time, in my opinion, it is #1 is when creeps hit rank 9+.

So true, Morteth, and Viloxus. A greenie creep raid will get destroyed over and over by a group of freeps, even if it is only 6. I’ve seen this first-hand. I do not envy the greenie creeps that are playing right now, but I do my best to help them by inviting them to groups so at least they’re getting some infamy, even if they are dead half the time lol.

I agree, the balance should not be fixed or focused on the R0-R5 creep experience as those ranks are fairly easy to get through, but once a creep hits rank 6 or 7, there should be a noticeable difference in how hard it is to kill them and the amount of damage they do. Right now it feels like this “difference” is noticed at rank 9+.

I agree 100% Tharisnor with the fact that people should invite greenies. And I am always open to inviting greenies. I only ask that they have voice enabled and that they respond to comments, questions directed at them. Sometimes they will enable voice when asked but they never show that they can hear the leader or anyone who is talking. So, to any greenie creeps reading this. Please enable voice chat and show that you can hear us talking. And please please please follow instructions.

What is your reaver’s name Tharisnor? I’d love a chance to play with you and not against you.

-Drakgor-

That's true Drak! Well spoken sir!

*bow down before the Almighty leader, Drakgor!*

Originally Posted by Irin19

I am bro, got a new job 2 weeks ago, still going through withdrawal of moving 5 hours away from all my buddies, but it's all good.

How have you been?

Still creeping a lot over there on that *other* server?

Not playing Lotro much at all tbh. I do come back to Silverlode and Creep occasionally though.

IRL things are goin ok. It pretty hot down in the South atm heh.

Best of luck w/ the new job. =)

Plz everyone remain calm!!!!

Ty